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Re: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

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  • Lisa
    ... I don t think all people use it to impress others. In the same way some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to using them and
    Message 1 of 11 , May 5 1:22 PM
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      Whiteley, John F wrote:
      > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
      >

      I don't think all people use it to impress others. In the same way
      some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to
      using them and talking to an audience that understands them too.

      Besides abbreviation, euphemisms can leave new Scouters with a blank
      stare. I know at training this weekend, a great trainer used the term
      "white elephant". I know I had never heard it before Scouting. I
      interjected and pointed out some may not know what she is referring
      to. And, in fact, some had no idea. (around here, those tent/carport
      things are referred to as a "white elephant")

      --
      Yours in Scouting,

      Lisa Titus
      CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
      ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
      Daniel Webster Council http://www.nhscouting.org/
      I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Richard C. Pushies
      Since I asked the question, TLA s and FLA s Do They Help or Hinder Communication? I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can
      Message 2 of 11 , May 5 3:51 PM
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        Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS, etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA, TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles, Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!

        The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse your audience instead of communicate.


        This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had never seen that meaning before. I like it.

        I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms. I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.

        Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the word snafu.

        Words are fun!

        So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)

        Rick


        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, doc marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
        >
        > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I should say "Introduce and Explain".
        > Yours inScouting and Service,
        > Doc Marshall
        >
        > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
        > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
        > see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
        > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
        >
        > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
        >
        > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
        > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
        > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
        >
        > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
        > YITS,
        > Doc Marshall
        >
        > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
        >
        > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
        > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
        > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
        >
        > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
        >
        > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)
        >
        > John
        >
        > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
        > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
        > Marshall Community and Technical College
        > 304-697-5616 (office)
        > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
        > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
        > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
        > whiteley@marshall. edu
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
        > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
        > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
        > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        >
        > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?
        >
        > YTIS,
        > RCP
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
        >   scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
        >
        > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Joseph Jansen
        One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see this link: http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html and pass the booklets out at
        Message 3 of 11 , May 5 7:31 PM
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          One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see
          this link:
          http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
          and pass the booklets out at training.
          I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete wording
          which the acronym stands for in a training session.
          Joe Jansen

          On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Richard C. Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
          > Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and
          > hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the
          > abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS,
          > etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations
          > is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA,
          > TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about
          > MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with
          > a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles,
          > Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!
          >
          > The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of
          > their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is
          > used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse
          > your audience instead of communicate.
          >
          > This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and
          > FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It
          > stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many
          > years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had
          > never seen that meaning before. I like it.
          >
          > I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience
          > participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms.
          > I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.
          >
          > Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning
          > of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather
          > vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word
          > "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the
          > word snafu.
          >
          > Words are fun!
          >
          > So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)
          >
          > Rick
          >
          > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>, doc
          > marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do
          > introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to
          > hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I
          > should say "Introduce and Explain".
          > > Yours inScouting and Service,
          > > Doc Marshall
          > >
          > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
          > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
          > Communication?
          > > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
          > > see why we should never use acronyms in training.
          > > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
          > >
          > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
          > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
          > Communication?
          > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
          > >
          > > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
          > > YITS,
          > > Doc Marshall
          > >
          > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
          > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
          > Communication?
          > > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
          > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
          > >
          > > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon
          > to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and
          > they only serve to confuse the student.
          > >
          > > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in
          > Scouting? :-)
          > >
          > > John
          > >
          > > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
          > > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
          > > Marshall Community and Technical College
          > > 304-697-5616 (office)
          > > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
          > > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
          > > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
          > > whiteley@marshall. edu
          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
          > > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf
          > Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
          > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
          > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          > > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
          > Communication?
          > >
          > > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other
          > acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use
          > of acronyms during training? What say you?
          > >
          > > YTIS,
          > > RCP
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          > >
          > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > > scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
          > >
          > > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Darleen Jeske
          Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
          Message 4 of 11 , May 6 7:20 AM
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            Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
            one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
            the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
            NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
            own audience participation ideas.
            Yours in Scouting
            Darleen Jeske, Training Chair
            Potawatomi Area Council



            From:
            Joseph Jansen <JAJansenJr@...>
            To:
            scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Date:
            05/06/2009 05:21 AM
            Subject:
            Re: [Scouter_T] Re: TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
            Sent by:
            scouter_t@yahoogroups.com


            One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms -
            see
            this link:
            http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
            and pass the booklets out at training.
            I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete
            wording
            which the acronym stands for in a training session.
            Joe Jansen
          • Jamie Niss Dunn
            Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
            Message 5 of 11 , May 6 12:47 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
              one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
              the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
              NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
              own audience participation ideas.
              _________
              Darlene - did you attach something? Attachments get stripped off by the list. Or did you upload the item to the files?


              YiS,
              Jamie Niss Dunn
              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
              Cub Scout Training Coordinator
              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
              3 Rivers District
              Scouting. Good for Life.








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