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RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

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  • doc marshall
    OK, we forgot MDA s - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those trainees are going to hear a lot of
    Message 1 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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      OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I should say "Introduce and Explain".
      Yours inScouting and Service,
      Doc Marshall

      --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:


      From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM








      YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
      see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
      TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error

      --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
      To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
      Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM

      Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
      YITS,
      Doc Marshall

      --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:

      From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
      To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
      Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM

      Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.

      BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)

      John

      Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
      Director, Inland Waterways Academy
      Marshall Community and Technical College
      304-697-5616 (office)
      304-697-5611 (Fax)
      304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
      304-437-3321 (Cell)
      whiteley@marshall. edu
      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
      From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
      Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

      Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?

      YTIS,
      RCP

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------ --------- --------- ------

      For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
        scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com

      Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lisa
      ... I don t think all people use it to impress others. In the same way some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to using them and
      Message 2 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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        Whiteley, John F wrote:
        > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
        >

        I don't think all people use it to impress others. In the same way
        some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to
        using them and talking to an audience that understands them too.

        Besides abbreviation, euphemisms can leave new Scouters with a blank
        stare. I know at training this weekend, a great trainer used the term
        "white elephant". I know I had never heard it before Scouting. I
        interjected and pointed out some may not know what she is referring
        to. And, in fact, some had no idea. (around here, those tent/carport
        things are referred to as a "white elephant")

        --
        Yours in Scouting,

        Lisa Titus
        CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
        ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
        Daniel Webster Council http://www.nhscouting.org/
        I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard C. Pushies
        Since I asked the question, TLA s and FLA s Do They Help or Hinder Communication? I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can
        Message 3 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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          Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS, etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA, TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles, Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!

          The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse your audience instead of communicate.


          This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had never seen that meaning before. I like it.

          I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms. I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.

          Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the word snafu.

          Words are fun!

          So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)

          Rick


          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, doc marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
          >
          > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I should say "Introduce and Explain".
          > Yours inScouting and Service,
          > Doc Marshall
          >
          > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
          > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
          > see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
          > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
          >
          > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
          >
          > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
          > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
          >
          > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
          > YITS,
          > Doc Marshall
          >
          > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
          >
          > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
          > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
          > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
          >
          > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
          >
          > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)
          >
          > John
          >
          > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
          > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
          > Marshall Community and Technical College
          > 304-697-5616 (office)
          > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
          > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
          > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
          > whiteley@marshall. edu
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
          > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          >
          > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?
          >
          > YTIS,
          > RCP
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          >   scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Joseph Jansen
          One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see this link: http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html and pass the booklets out at
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see
            this link:
            http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
            and pass the booklets out at training.
            I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete wording
            which the acronym stands for in a training session.
            Joe Jansen

            On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Richard C. Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            > Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
            > Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and
            > hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the
            > abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS,
            > etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations
            > is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA,
            > TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about
            > MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with
            > a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles,
            > Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!
            >
            > The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of
            > their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is
            > used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse
            > your audience instead of communicate.
            >
            > This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and
            > FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It
            > stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many
            > years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had
            > never seen that meaning before. I like it.
            >
            > I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience
            > participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms.
            > I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.
            >
            > Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning
            > of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather
            > vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word
            > "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the
            > word snafu.
            >
            > Words are fun!
            >
            > So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)
            >
            > Rick
            >
            > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>, doc
            > marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do
            > introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to
            > hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I
            > should say "Introduce and Explain".
            > > Yours inScouting and Service,
            > > Doc Marshall
            > >
            > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
            > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
            > Communication?
            > > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
            > > see why we should never use acronyms in training.
            > > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
            > >
            > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
            > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
            > Communication?
            > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
            > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
            > >
            > > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
            > > YITS,
            > > Doc Marshall
            > >
            > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
            > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
            > Communication?
            > > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
            > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
            > >
            > > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon
            > to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and
            > they only serve to confuse the student.
            > >
            > > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in
            > Scouting? :-)
            > >
            > > John
            > >
            > > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
            > > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
            > > Marshall Community and Technical College
            > > 304-697-5616 (office)
            > > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
            > > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
            > > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
            > > whiteley@marshall. edu
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
            > > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf
            > Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
            > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
            > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
            > > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
            > Communication?
            > >
            > > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other
            > acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use
            > of acronyms during training? What say you?
            > >
            > > YTIS,
            > > RCP
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            > >
            > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > > scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
            > >
            > > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Darleen Jeske
            Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
            Message 5 of 11 , May 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
              one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
              the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
              NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
              own audience participation ideas.
              Yours in Scouting
              Darleen Jeske, Training Chair
              Potawatomi Area Council



              From:
              Joseph Jansen <JAJansenJr@...>
              To:
              scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Date:
              05/06/2009 05:21 AM
              Subject:
              Re: [Scouter_T] Re: TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
              Sent by:
              scouter_t@yahoogroups.com


              One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms -
              see
              this link:
              http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
              and pass the booklets out at training.
              I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete
              wording
              which the acronym stands for in a training session.
              Joe Jansen
            • Jamie Niss Dunn
              Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
              Message 6 of 11 , May 6, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
                one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
                the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
                NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
                own audience participation ideas.
                _________
                Darlene - did you attach something? Attachments get stripped off by the list. Or did you upload the item to the files?


                YiS,
                Jamie Niss Dunn
                Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                Cub Scout Training Coordinator
                Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                3 Rivers District
                Scouting. Good for Life.








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