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RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

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  • doc marshall
    Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting. YITS, Doc Marshall ... From: Whiteley, John F Subject: RE: [Scouter_T]
    Message 1 of 11 , May 5, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
      YITS,
      Doc Marshall

      --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@...> wrote:


      From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@...>
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
      To: "scouter_t@yahoogroups.com" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM








      Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.

      BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)

      John

      Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
      Director, Inland Waterways Academy
      Marshall Community and Technical College
      304-697-5616 (office)
      304-697-5611 (Fax)
      304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
      304-437-3321 (Cell)
      whiteley@marshall. edu
      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
      From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
      Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

      Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?

      YTIS,
      RCP
















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carter J Wood
      YITS = You re In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered...... see why we should never use acronyms in training.    TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance
      Message 2 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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        YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered......
        see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
        TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error

        --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:


        From: doc marshall <deutche01@...>
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM


        Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
        YITS,
        Doc Marshall

        --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@...> wrote:


        From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@...>
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
        To: "scouter_t@yahoogroups.com" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM








        Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.

        BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)

        John

        Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
        Director, Inland Waterways Academy
        Marshall Community and Technical College
        304-697-5616 (office)
        304-697-5611 (Fax)
        304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
        304-437-3321 (Cell)
        whiteley@marshall. edu
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
        From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
        Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
        Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

        Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?

        YTIS,
        RCP
















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

        Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • doc marshall
        OK, we forgot MDA s - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those trainees are going to hear a lot of
        Message 3 of 11 , May 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I should say "Introduce and Explain".
          Yours inScouting and Service,
          Doc Marshall

          --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:


          From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM








          YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
          see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
          TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error

          --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:

          From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM

          Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
          YITS,
          Doc Marshall

          --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:

          From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
          To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
          Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM

          Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.

          BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)

          John

          Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
          Director, Inland Waterways Academy
          Marshall Community and Technical College
          304-697-5616 (office)
          304-697-5611 (Fax)
          304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
          304-437-3321 (Cell)
          whiteley@marshall. edu
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
          From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
          Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?

          Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?

          YTIS,
          RCP

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------ --------- --------- ------

          For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com

          Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lisa
          ... I don t think all people use it to impress others. In the same way some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to using them and
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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            Whiteley, John F wrote:
            > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
            >

            I don't think all people use it to impress others. In the same way
            some folks use Internet abbreviations ... they are just accustomed to
            using them and talking to an audience that understands them too.

            Besides abbreviation, euphemisms can leave new Scouters with a blank
            stare. I know at training this weekend, a great trainer used the term
            "white elephant". I know I had never heard it before Scouting. I
            interjected and pointed out some may not know what she is referring
            to. And, in fact, some had no idea. (around here, those tent/carport
            things are referred to as a "white elephant")

            --
            Yours in Scouting,

            Lisa Titus
            CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
            ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
            Daniel Webster Council http://www.nhscouting.org/
            I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Richard C. Pushies
            Since I asked the question, TLA s and FLA s Do They Help or Hinder Communication? I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can
            Message 5 of 11 , May 5, 2009
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              Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS, etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA, TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles, Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!

              The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse your audience instead of communicate.


              This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had never seen that meaning before. I like it.

              I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms. I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.

              Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the word snafu.

              Words are fun!

              So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)

              Rick


              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, doc marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
              >
              > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I should say "Introduce and Explain".
              > Yours inScouting and Service,
              > Doc Marshall
              >
              > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
              > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
              > see why we should never use acronyms in training.   
              > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
              >
              > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
              >
              > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
              > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
              > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
              >
              > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
              > YITS,
              > Doc Marshall
              >
              > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
              >
              > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
              > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
              > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
              > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
              >
              > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and they only serve to confuse the student.
              >
              > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in Scouting? :-)
              >
              > John
              >
              > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
              > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
              > Marshall Community and Technical College
              > 304-697-5616 (office)
              > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
              > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
              > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
              > whiteley@marshall. edu
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
              > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
              > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
              > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
              >
              > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use of acronyms during training? What say you?
              >
              > YTIS,
              > RCP
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              >   scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Joseph Jansen
              One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see this link: http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html and pass the booklets out at
              Message 6 of 11 , May 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms - see
                this link:
                http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
                and pass the booklets out at training.
                I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete wording
                which the acronym stands for in a training session.
                Joe Jansen

                On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Richard C. Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                > Since I asked the question, "TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
                > Communication?" I will give you my answer. Yes, acronyms can both help and
                > hinder. They can help when everyone knows the meaning we assign to the
                > abbreviated communication formed from the letters (BSA, FBI, USMC,IRS,
                > etc.). However, when the meaning you assign to those TLA & FLA abbreviations
                > is not known to all (TTFN, SNAFU, ITOLS, IOLS, BALOO, PLC, SPL, FOS, JOTA,
                > TNT, PTC, OA), their use hinders communication. I had also forgot about
                > MDA's (Multiple Definition Acronyms) BSA is used in a numbe rof context with
                > a number of different meanings. Boy Scouts of America, BSA Motorcycles,
                > Business Software Alliance, etc. Talk about confusing!
                >
                > The rule I was taught suggests we limit the use of acronyms because of
                > their potential to hinder communication and suggests that when an acronym is
                > used for the first time we define what it means. Otherwise you may confuse
                > your audience instead of communicate.
                >
                > This is what I did in my original post on this question. I defined TLA and
                > FLA. However I did not (intentionally) define YTIS used in my closing. It
                > stands for "Yours Truly In Scouting." A valediction I started using many
                > years ago. The "Your Trainer In Scouting" explanation is interesting, I had
                > never seen that meaning before. I like it.
                >
                > I also like Darlene Jeske's method of creating a quick audience
                > participation story to help teach the meaning of common Scouting acronyms.
                > I'll put that one to work! Thank you for sharing Darlene.
                >
                > Also, be very careful using acronyms that you do not understand the meaning
                > of is another a good rule. Acronyms like "fubar" or "snafu" have rather
                > vulgar origins. More than once I have seen a church newsletter use the word
                > "snafu" in print. One would hope they do not understand the origin of the
                > word snafu.
                >
                > Words are fun!
                >
                > So, for now I say, TTFN! (Ta Ta For Now!)
                >
                > Rick
                >
                > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>, doc
                > marshall <deutche01@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > OK, we forgot MDA's - Multiple-Definition Acronyms. And, yes, I do
                > introduce acronyms in training simply because those "trainees" are going to
                > hear a lot of them and really need to know what folks are talking about. I
                > should say "Introduce and Explain".
                > > Yours inScouting and Service,
                > > Doc Marshall
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
                > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
                > Communication?
                > > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > YITS = You're In the Scoutnet = you are properly registered.. ....
                > > see why we should never use acronyms in training.
                > > TITMCOAE = There Is Too Much Chance Of An Error
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: doc marshall <deutche01@yahoo. com>
                > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
                > Communication?
                > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
                > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:58 PM
                > >
                > > Hmm - I thought it was YITS - Yours in Traditional Scouting.
                > > YITS,
                > > Doc Marshall
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: Whiteley, John F <whiteley@marshall. edu>
                > > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
                > Communication?
                > > To: "scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com" <scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com>
                > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
                > >
                > > Acronyms shoud NOT be used in training. They are usually used as jargon
                > to impress the new leaders with the "experienced" leader's knowledge, and
                > they only serve to confuse the student.
                > >
                > > BTW, what does YTIS mean? Yours truly in Scouting? Your Trainer in
                > Scouting? :-)
                > >
                > > John
                > >
                > > Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S.
                > > Director, Inland Waterways Academy
                > > Marshall Community and Technical College
                > > 304-697-5616 (office)
                > > 304-697-5611 (Fax)
                > > 304-417-3321 (Huntington Cell)
                > > 304-437-3321 (Cell)
                > > whiteley@marshall. edu
                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [scouter_t@yahoogro u ps.com] On Behalf
                > Of Richard C. Pushies [rick@pushies. com]
                > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:40 PM
                > > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
                > > Subject: [Scouter_T] TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder
                > Communication?
                > >
                > > Three Letter Acronyms (TLA), Four letter Acronyms (FLA) and other
                > acronyms - do they help or hinder communication? How do you handle the use
                > of acronyms during training? What say you?
                > >
                > > YTIS,
                > > RCP
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                > >
                > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > > scouter_t-help@ yahoogroups. com
                > >
                > > Scouting The Net - http://www.Scouting TheNet.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Darleen Jeske
                Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
                Message 7 of 11 , May 6, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
                  one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
                  the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
                  NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
                  own audience participation ideas.
                  Yours in Scouting
                  Darleen Jeske, Training Chair
                  Potawatomi Area Council



                  From:
                  Joseph Jansen <JAJansenJr@...>
                  To:
                  scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Date:
                  05/06/2009 05:21 AM
                  Subject:
                  Re: [Scouter_T] Re: TLA's and FLA's Do They Help or Hinder Communication?
                  Sent by:
                  scouter_t@yahoogroups.com


                  One thing you can do is to produce a pocket booklet with BSA acronyms -
                  see
                  this link:
                  http://www.scoutway.net/scouter/abc.html
                  and pass the booklets out at training.
                  I also like the idea of the audience sounding off with the complete
                  wording
                  which the acronym stands for in a training session.
                  Joe Jansen
                • Jamie Niss Dunn
                  Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it d be nice to share one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce the various
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 6, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Since enough of you have liked the idea, I thought it'd be nice to share
                    one audience participation I developed for Cub Roundtable (to introduce
                    the various trainings). Keep in mind that this was used back when we had
                    NLE, but it might be a good starting point for any of you to develop your
                    own audience participation ideas.
                    _________
                    Darlene - did you attach something? Attachments get stripped off by the list. Or did you upload the item to the files?


                    YiS,
                    Jamie Niss Dunn
                    Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                    Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                    Cub Scout Training Coordinator
                    Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                    3 Rivers District
                    Scouting. Good for Life.








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