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Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"

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  • Shilo
    I m having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn t think he needs any training. I just grin and
    Message 1 of 10 , May 4, 2009
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      I'm having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn't think he needs any training. I just grin and tell him that he will NOT take those boys camping without proper training. Our council requires certain training to do certain things and I told him that. I also told him that if he wants to go camping with his den then he must find a leader within the pack that has the required training or go to training.

      Others that say that they don't need training because past experiences I ask they to help out at training with less experienced campers, that usually gets them to training. (Expect the one in my pack =( he still thinks he don't need training)

      YIS,
      Shilo Nichols
      Andrew Jackson Council
      Eastern District Training Team
      Pack Trainer for Pack 575, Pearl, MS

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:
      >
      > when I have someone like that in my BALOO or OWL training I put them to work-helping the others, esp with knots, fire starting, camp set up ideas, and to run our activities like scavenger hunt, nature critters, fire starters, etc.  then I ask them to help the next year.
      >
      > BTW- I have an old scouter going through the program again with his grandson.  He told me he didn't have to go through any outdoor training because he has done it all.  He's mostly done BS and hasn't been in CS for at least 20 yrs.  I told him to come anyway- Tigers can't don't Boy Scout stuff yet.
      >
      > he's coming.
      >
      > Sandy OWL
      >
      > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, aty2d <darleen.jeske@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: aty2d <darleen.jeske@...>
      > Subject: [Scouter_T] BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"
      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:39 PM
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      > How do you folks handle the "know it alls" at BALOO trainings who say the training is a waste of their time because... (Eagle scout, former boy scout, go camping a lot, etc.).
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      > Many experience campers are great attendees - sharing their knowledge with others is great.
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      > My problem is the whiners who complain throughout the training because they already know everything!
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      > I would appreciate some template wording to use in the flyer so that people know upfront that nobody's grandfathered out because....
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      > thanks in advance for your help
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      > Yours in Scouting, Darleen
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    • Jim & Chris Rooney
      A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF soldier myself - see sig line): • Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different
      Message 2 of 10 , May 5, 2009
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        A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF soldier myself - see sig line):

        • Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different that falling out of a plane or humping 20 miles into "Indian Country". (Obvious I know, but still...) The Army requires annual re-qualification on your primary and secondary weapons, even though you're "already trained", why do you suppose they do that. To ensure that key, core skills are retained and reinforced annually.
        • If you (ex-SF) Webelos leader is truly "ex-SF", he will know that training is for the benefit of all, not just the student, and that everyone in the class benefits from the experience of the rest.
        • BALOO is about planning and executing camping for kids and their families - NOT about the the instruction of backcountry camping skills. It is about how to adapt a camping activity to energize and excite inexperienced kids and family members into discovering the wonders of the outdoors.
        • Finally - as Scout Leaders - we are called to observe and live out the Scout Oath and Law. As a reminder, there are several that apply to this situation:


        • Scout Oath: "... To help other people at all times..." That means sharing your knowledge to other students in the class who can benefit from the depth of your experience.
        • Scout Law: "A scout is Loyal" (following those in leadership positions above them), "A Scout is Helpful" (sharing your experience and assisting in the successful execution of the class), "A Scout is Courteous" (allowing the class to proceed without interruption), "A Scout is Obedient" (following the rules of the organization s/he voluntarily joined).

        De Oppresso Liber...

        ---
        Jim Rooney
        Cubmaster - Pack 841 (ASM, Troop 868), Parker CO
        District Trainer, Pioneer Trails, Denver Area Council
        (ODA A21, 11SFGA, ODA B22, 10SFGA, 1st SF)
        (I used to be a Bobwhite..., and a Good Ol' Staffer too)

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Shilo" <shilochristy@...>
        To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 9:52:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"








        I'm having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn't think he needs any training. I just grin and tell him that he will NOT take those boys camping without proper training. Our council requires certain training to do certain things and I told him that. I also told him that if he wants to go camping with his den then he must find a leader within the pack that has the required training or go to training.

        Others that say that they don't need training because past experiences I ask they to help out at training with less experienced campers, that usually gets them to training. (Expect the one in my pack =( he still thinks he don't need training)

        YIS,
        Shilo Nichols
        Andrew Jackson Council
        Eastern District Training Team
        Pack Trainer for Pack 575, Pearl, MS

        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com , Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:
        >
        > when I have someone like that in my BALOO or OWL training I put them to work-helping the others, esp with knots, fire starting, camp set up ideas, and to run our activities like scavenger hunt, nature critters, fire starters, etc. then I ask them to help the next year.
        >
        > BTW- I have an old scouter going through the program again with his grandson. He told me he didn't have to go through any outdoor training because he has done it all. He's mostly done BS and hasn't been in CS for at least 20 yrs. I told him to come anyway- Tigers can't don't Boy Scout stuff yet.
        >
        > he's coming.
        >
        > Sandy OWL
        >
        > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, aty2d <darleen.jeske@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: aty2d <darleen.jeske@...>
        > Subject: [Scouter_T] BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:39 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > How do you folks handle the "know it alls" at BALOO trainings who say the training is a waste of their time because... (Eagle scout, former boy scout, go camping a lot, etc.).
        >
        >
        >
        > Many experience campers are great attendees - sharing their knowledge with others is great.
        >
        >
        >
        > My problem is the whiners who complain throughout the training because they already know everything!
        >
        >
        >
        > I would appreciate some template wording to use in the flyer so that people know upfront that nobody's grandfathered out because....
        >
        >
        >
        > thanks in advance for your help
        >
        > Yours in Scouting, Darleen
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      • Ray Scott
        This MIGHT be the best post I ve ever seen here. Thanks for the perspective Jim. Ray Scott CM Pack 4126, Sylacauga AL _____ From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 10 , May 5, 2009
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          This MIGHT be the best post I've ever seen here. Thanks for the perspective
          Jim.

          Ray Scott

          CM Pack 4126, Sylacauga AL

          _____

          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Jim & Chris Rooney
          Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 7:12 AM
          To: scouter t
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know
          everything"

          A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF
          soldier myself - see sig line):

          . Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different that falling out of a
          plane or humping 20 miles into "Indian Country". (Obvious I know, but
          still...) The Army requires annual re-qualification on your primary and
          secondary weapons, even though you're "already trained", why do you suppose
          they do that. To ensure that key, core skills are retained and reinforced
          annually.
          . If you (ex-SF) Webelos leader is truly "ex-SF", he will know that training
          is for the benefit of all, not just the student, and that everyone in the
          class benefits from the experience of the rest.
          . BALOO is about planning and executing camping for kids and their families
          - NOT about the the instruction of backcountry camping skills. It is about
          how to adapt a camping activity to energize and excite inexperienced kids
          and family members into discovering the wonders of the outdoors.
          . Finally - as Scout Leaders - we are called to observe and live out the
          Scout Oath and Law. As a reminder, there are several that apply to this
          situation:

          . Scout Oath: "... To help other people at all times..." That means sharing
          your knowledge to other students in the class who can benefit from the depth
          of your experience.
          . Scout Law: "A scout is Loyal" (following those in leadership positions
          above them), "A Scout is Helpful" (sharing your experience and assisting in
          the successful execution of the class), "A Scout is Courteous" (allowing the
          class to proceed without interruption), "A Scout is Obedient" (following the
          rules of the organization s/he voluntarily joined).

          De Oppresso Liber...

          ---
          Jim Rooney
          Cubmaster - Pack 841 (ASM, Troop 868), Parker CO
          District Trainer, Pioneer Trails, Denver Area Council
          (ODA A21, 11SFGA, ODA B22, 10SFGA, 1st SF)
          (I used to be a Bobwhite..., and a Good Ol' Staffer too)
        • Bill Nelson
          I stole this from another council, but we are using it here: Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of ten, his answer will
          Message 4 of 10 , May 6, 2009
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            I stole this from another council, but we are using it here:

            Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of ten, his answer will be "to go camping." As his leader you may have the desire to follow through on the young boy's hope; however, you may not have the skills or the confidence to actually take him camping. The goal of the BALOO training experience is to provide you with the necessary skills and confidence to venture into the great outdoors with your Cub Scouts and provide them with a great first-time camping experience.

            BALOO will help you gain knowledge of the BSA resources available to help carry out a successful pack camping activity and will provide the tools that you need to accomplish the goals for the Cub Scout camping program. It is very important that the boys' first-time camping experience be a good one – that the young Cub Scouts come home wanting more. To accomplish this goal, this training will focus on the health and safety of the participants, program planning, and a few basic outdoor skills.

            ...

            According to National BSA Standards, "Pack overnighters must be organized and led by an adult leader who has successfully completed BALOO training, within the past 2 years." Without a BALOO trained adult, packs CAN NOT participate in overnight camping except at council sponsored events. At least one adult from your pack must be BALOO trained to conduct a pack campout and must be in attendance at the campout.
          • Peter Mullaney
            If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video. ;-) By the way has the latest version of the CS Outdoor Program Guidelines been
            Message 5 of 10 , May 7, 2009
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              If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video.
              ;-)

              By the way has the latest version of the CS Outdoor Program Guidelines been
              posted in the files section? I haven't had a chance to look.

              Our RT was great the other night - we staged it around an indoor
              'campfire'. Participants were told to bring a camp chair to sit on. I got
              to push our upcoming BALOO training. I told it like it is - the Scouting
              course that they will have the most fun taking.

              Pete M.

              On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Bill Nelson <bnelson45@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > I stole this from another council, but we are using it here:
              >
              > Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of
              > ten, his answer will be "to go camping." As his leader you may have the
              > desire to follow through on the young boy's hope; however, you may not have
              > the skills or the confidence to actually take him camping. The goal of the
              > BALOO training experience is to provide you with the necessary skills and
              > confidence to venture into the great outdoors with your Cub Scouts and
              > provide them with a great first-time camping experience.
              >
              > BALOO will help you gain knowledge of the BSA resources available to help
              > carry out a successful pack camping activity and will provide the tools that
              > you need to accomplish the goals for the Cub Scout camping program. It is
              > very important that the boys' first-time camping experience be a good one �
              > that the young Cub Scouts come home wanting more. To accomplish this goal,
              > this training will focus on the health and safety of the participants,
              > program planning, and a few basic outdoor skills.
              >
              > ...
              >
              > According to National BSA Standards, "Pack overnighters must be organized
              > and led by an adult leader who has successfully completed BALOO training,
              > within the past 2 years." Without a BALOO trained adult, packs CAN NOT
              > participate in overnight camping except at council sponsored events. At
              > least one adult from your pack must be BALOO trained to conduct a pack
              > campout and must be in attendance at the campout.
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lisa
              ... I think a lot of the wording comes right from the Aims and Purposes section of BALOO too. I just taught it this weekend, but I don t have my book handy
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7, 2009
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                Peter Mullaney wrote:
                > If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video.
                > ;-)
                >

                I think a lot of the wording comes right from the Aims and Purposes
                section of BALOO too. I just taught it this weekend, but I don't have
                my book handy to check.



                --
                Yours in Scouting,

                Lisa Titus
                CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
                ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
                Daniel Webster Council http://www.nhscouting.org/
                I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250


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