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Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"

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  • Shilo
    I m having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn t think he needs any training. I just grin and
    Message 1 of 10 , May 4, 2009
      I'm having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn't think he needs any training. I just grin and tell him that he will NOT take those boys camping without proper training. Our council requires certain training to do certain things and I told him that. I also told him that if he wants to go camping with his den then he must find a leader within the pack that has the required training or go to training.

      Others that say that they don't need training because past experiences I ask they to help out at training with less experienced campers, that usually gets them to training. (Expect the one in my pack =( he still thinks he don't need training)

      YIS,
      Shilo Nichols
      Andrew Jackson Council
      Eastern District Training Team
      Pack Trainer for Pack 575, Pearl, MS

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:
      >
      > when I have someone like that in my BALOO or OWL training I put them to work-helping the others, esp with knots, fire starting, camp set up ideas, and to run our activities like scavenger hunt, nature critters, fire starters, etc.  then I ask them to help the next year.
      >
      > BTW- I have an old scouter going through the program again with his grandson.  He told me he didn't have to go through any outdoor training because he has done it all.  He's mostly done BS and hasn't been in CS for at least 20 yrs.  I told him to come anyway- Tigers can't don't Boy Scout stuff yet.
      >
      > he's coming.
      >
      > Sandy OWL
      >
      > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, aty2d <darleen.jeske@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: aty2d <darleen.jeske@...>
      > Subject: [Scouter_T] BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"
      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:39 PM
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      > How do you folks handle the "know it alls" at BALOO trainings who say the training is a waste of their time because... (Eagle scout, former boy scout, go camping a lot, etc.).
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      > Many experience campers are great attendees - sharing their knowledge with others is great.
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      > My problem is the whiners who complain throughout the training because they already know everything!
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      > I would appreciate some template wording to use in the flyer so that people know upfront that nobody's grandfathered out because....
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      > thanks in advance for your help
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      > Yours in Scouting, Darleen
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    • Peter Mullaney
      Two quick things: I remind people that the purpose of the class is how to organize a successful Cub outing, not how to be a super camper. A Cub camping event
      Message 2 of 10 , May 4, 2009
        Two quick things:

        I remind people that the purpose of the class is how to organize a
        successful Cub outing, not how to be a super camper. A Cub camping event is
        NOT a Boy Scout camping event and you can't treat it as such.

        I tell people that no matter how many times I've worked the class I
        invariably learn something new every class. I also solicit audience
        participation so these people can share their experiences. This usually is
        helpful when we talk about equipment.

        Other comments about recruiting them for staff have been made. Hopefully
        the one's who are 'legends in their own minds' won't take you up on the
        offer.


        Pete M.

        On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM, aty2d <darleen.jeske@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > How do you folks handle the "know it alls" at BALOO trainings who say the
        > training is a waste of their time because... (Eagle scout, former boy scout,
        > go camping a lot, etc.).
        >
        > Many experience campers are great attendees - sharing their knowledge with
        > others is great.
        >
        > My problem is the whiners who complain throughout the training because they
        > already know everything!
        >
        > I would appreciate some template wording to use in the flyer so that people
        > know upfront that nobody's grandfathered out because....
        >
        > thanks in advance for your help
        > Yours in Scouting, Darleen
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim & Chris Rooney
        A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF soldier myself - see sig line): • Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different
        Message 3 of 10 , May 5, 2009
          A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF soldier myself - see sig line):

          • Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different that falling out of a plane or humping 20 miles into "Indian Country". (Obvious I know, but still...) The Army requires annual re-qualification on your primary and secondary weapons, even though you're "already trained", why do you suppose they do that. To ensure that key, core skills are retained and reinforced annually.
          • If you (ex-SF) Webelos leader is truly "ex-SF", he will know that training is for the benefit of all, not just the student, and that everyone in the class benefits from the experience of the rest.
          • BALOO is about planning and executing camping for kids and their families - NOT about the the instruction of backcountry camping skills. It is about how to adapt a camping activity to energize and excite inexperienced kids and family members into discovering the wonders of the outdoors.
          • Finally - as Scout Leaders - we are called to observe and live out the Scout Oath and Law. As a reminder, there are several that apply to this situation:


          • Scout Oath: "... To help other people at all times..." That means sharing your knowledge to other students in the class who can benefit from the depth of your experience.
          • Scout Law: "A scout is Loyal" (following those in leadership positions above them), "A Scout is Helpful" (sharing your experience and assisting in the successful execution of the class), "A Scout is Courteous" (allowing the class to proceed without interruption), "A Scout is Obedient" (following the rules of the organization s/he voluntarily joined).

          De Oppresso Liber...

          ---
          Jim Rooney
          Cubmaster - Pack 841 (ASM, Troop 868), Parker CO
          District Trainer, Pioneer Trails, Denver Area Council
          (ODA A21, 11SFGA, ODA B22, 10SFGA, 1st SF)
          (I used to be a Bobwhite..., and a Good Ol' Staffer too)

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Shilo" <shilochristy@...>
          To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 9:52:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"








          I'm having the same problem inside my pack! I have a Webelos Leader that is ex-military special forces. He doesn't think he needs any training. I just grin and tell him that he will NOT take those boys camping without proper training. Our council requires certain training to do certain things and I told him that. I also told him that if he wants to go camping with his den then he must find a leader within the pack that has the required training or go to training.

          Others that say that they don't need training because past experiences I ask they to help out at training with less experienced campers, that usually gets them to training. (Expect the one in my pack =( he still thinks he don't need training)

          YIS,
          Shilo Nichols
          Andrew Jackson Council
          Eastern District Training Team
          Pack Trainer for Pack 575, Pearl, MS

          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com , Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:
          >
          > when I have someone like that in my BALOO or OWL training I put them to work-helping the others, esp with knots, fire starting, camp set up ideas, and to run our activities like scavenger hunt, nature critters, fire starters, etc. then I ask them to help the next year.
          >
          > BTW- I have an old scouter going through the program again with his grandson. He told me he didn't have to go through any outdoor training because he has done it all. He's mostly done BS and hasn't been in CS for at least 20 yrs. I told him to come anyway- Tigers can't don't Boy Scout stuff yet.
          >
          > he's coming.
          >
          > Sandy OWL
          >
          > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, aty2d <darleen.jeske@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: aty2d <darleen.jeske@...>
          > Subject: [Scouter_T] BALOO training - attendees who "already know everything"
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:39 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > How do you folks handle the "know it alls" at BALOO trainings who say the training is a waste of their time because... (Eagle scout, former boy scout, go camping a lot, etc.).
          >
          >
          >
          > Many experience campers are great attendees - sharing their knowledge with others is great.
          >
          >
          >
          > My problem is the whiners who complain throughout the training because they already know everything!
          >
          >
          >
          > I would appreciate some template wording to use in the flyer so that people know upfront that nobody's grandfathered out because....
          >
          >
          >
          > thanks in advance for your help
          >
          > Yours in Scouting, Darleen
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ray Scott
          This MIGHT be the best post I ve ever seen here. Thanks for the perspective Jim. Ray Scott CM Pack 4126, Sylacauga AL _____ From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 10 , May 5, 2009
            This MIGHT be the best post I've ever seen here. Thanks for the perspective
            Jim.

            Ray Scott

            CM Pack 4126, Sylacauga AL

            _____

            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Jim & Chris Rooney
            Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 7:12 AM
            To: scouter t
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO training - attendees who "already know
            everything"

            A couple of observations and thoughts on this topic (from a former SF
            soldier myself - see sig line):

            . Camping with youngsters is SIGNIFICANTLY different that falling out of a
            plane or humping 20 miles into "Indian Country". (Obvious I know, but
            still...) The Army requires annual re-qualification on your primary and
            secondary weapons, even though you're "already trained", why do you suppose
            they do that. To ensure that key, core skills are retained and reinforced
            annually.
            . If you (ex-SF) Webelos leader is truly "ex-SF", he will know that training
            is for the benefit of all, not just the student, and that everyone in the
            class benefits from the experience of the rest.
            . BALOO is about planning and executing camping for kids and their families
            - NOT about the the instruction of backcountry camping skills. It is about
            how to adapt a camping activity to energize and excite inexperienced kids
            and family members into discovering the wonders of the outdoors.
            . Finally - as Scout Leaders - we are called to observe and live out the
            Scout Oath and Law. As a reminder, there are several that apply to this
            situation:

            . Scout Oath: "... To help other people at all times..." That means sharing
            your knowledge to other students in the class who can benefit from the depth
            of your experience.
            . Scout Law: "A scout is Loyal" (following those in leadership positions
            above them), "A Scout is Helpful" (sharing your experience and assisting in
            the successful execution of the class), "A Scout is Courteous" (allowing the
            class to proceed without interruption), "A Scout is Obedient" (following the
            rules of the organization s/he voluntarily joined).

            De Oppresso Liber...

            ---
            Jim Rooney
            Cubmaster - Pack 841 (ASM, Troop 868), Parker CO
            District Trainer, Pioneer Trails, Denver Area Council
            (ODA A21, 11SFGA, ODA B22, 10SFGA, 1st SF)
            (I used to be a Bobwhite..., and a Good Ol' Staffer too)
          • Bill Nelson
            I stole this from another council, but we are using it here: Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of ten, his answer will
            Message 5 of 10 , May 6, 2009
              I stole this from another council, but we are using it here:

              Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of ten, his answer will be "to go camping." As his leader you may have the desire to follow through on the young boy's hope; however, you may not have the skills or the confidence to actually take him camping. The goal of the BALOO training experience is to provide you with the necessary skills and confidence to venture into the great outdoors with your Cub Scouts and provide them with a great first-time camping experience.

              BALOO will help you gain knowledge of the BSA resources available to help carry out a successful pack camping activity and will provide the tools that you need to accomplish the goals for the Cub Scout camping program. It is very important that the boys' first-time camping experience be a good one – that the young Cub Scouts come home wanting more. To accomplish this goal, this training will focus on the health and safety of the participants, program planning, and a few basic outdoor skills.

              ...

              According to National BSA Standards, "Pack overnighters must be organized and led by an adult leader who has successfully completed BALOO training, within the past 2 years." Without a BALOO trained adult, packs CAN NOT participate in overnight camping except at council sponsored events. At least one adult from your pack must be BALOO trained to conduct a pack campout and must be in attendance at the campout.
            • Peter Mullaney
              If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video. ;-) By the way has the latest version of the CS Outdoor Program Guidelines been
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7, 2009
                If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video.
                ;-)

                By the way has the latest version of the CS Outdoor Program Guidelines been
                posted in the files section? I haven't had a chance to look.

                Our RT was great the other night - we staged it around an indoor
                'campfire'. Participants were told to bring a camp chair to sit on. I got
                to push our upcoming BALOO training. I told it like it is - the Scouting
                course that they will have the most fun taking.

                Pete M.

                On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Bill Nelson <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > I stole this from another council, but we are using it here:
                >
                > Ask any new Cub Scout why he wanted to join Scouting, and nine times out of
                > ten, his answer will be "to go camping." As his leader you may have the
                > desire to follow through on the young boy's hope; however, you may not have
                > the skills or the confidence to actually take him camping. The goal of the
                > BALOO training experience is to provide you with the necessary skills and
                > confidence to venture into the great outdoors with your Cub Scouts and
                > provide them with a great first-time camping experience.
                >
                > BALOO will help you gain knowledge of the BSA resources available to help
                > carry out a successful pack camping activity and will provide the tools that
                > you need to accomplish the goals for the Cub Scout camping program. It is
                > very important that the boys' first-time camping experience be a good one �
                > that the young Cub Scouts come home wanting more. To accomplish this goal,
                > this training will focus on the health and safety of the participants,
                > program planning, and a few basic outdoor skills.
                >
                > ...
                >
                > According to National BSA Standards, "Pack overnighters must be organized
                > and led by an adult leader who has successfully completed BALOO training,
                > within the past 2 years." Without a BALOO trained adult, packs CAN NOT
                > participate in overnight camping except at council sponsored events. At
                > least one adult from your pack must be BALOO trained to conduct a pack
                > campout and must be in attendance at the campout.
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lisa
                ... I think a lot of the wording comes right from the Aims and Purposes section of BALOO too. I just taught it this weekend, but I don t have my book handy
                Message 7 of 10 , May 7, 2009
                  Peter Mullaney wrote:
                  > If you stole it from another council I believe they stole it from a video.
                  > ;-)
                  >

                  I think a lot of the wording comes right from the Aims and Purposes
                  section of BALOO too. I just taught it this weekend, but I don't have
                  my book handy to check.



                  --
                  Yours in Scouting,

                  Lisa Titus
                  CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
                  ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
                  Daniel Webster Council http://www.nhscouting.org/
                  I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250


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