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Re: shirts in or out

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  • Herbert Dulzo
    And as an addendum to that, here is the offial statement that we should follow ilustrations....... excerpt form BSA Rules and Regulations, Clause 2), The
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 18, 2009
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      And as an addendum to that, here is the "offial" statement that we should follow ilustrations.......

      excerpt form BSA Rules and Regulations, Clause 2), "The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to the Boy Scouts of America shall be those approved by action of the Executive Board of the Boy scouts of America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America.

      "as illustrated and described" pretty well covers it.

      herb d

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Dulzo" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
      >
      > You don't need a statement, the inspection sheet shows it tucked in. Just because it shows the scouts fly closed, it does mean it can be open?
      > hd
      > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >he's looking for OFFICIAL
      > > >guidance.
      > > Problem is there isn't any. We've had this discussion on Cub-Scout-Talk.There is no definitive statement anywhere, that I have found, which says that uniform shirts are worn tucked in.
      > >
      > > The closest I have come is this statement from the Insignia Guide, which is an excerpt from the BSA Rules &? Regulations:
      > > "Clause 2. The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to the Boy Scouts of America shall be those approved by action of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America."
      > >
      > > Since the illustrations on the inspection sheets, supply catalogs, handbooks and other literature show the shirt tucked in . . .
      > >
      > > In addition the Uniform Inspection sheets have a General Appearance category, which includes the criteria "neatly dressed".
      > >
      > >
      > > YiS,
      > > Jamie Niss Dunn
      > > Pack Trainer, Pack 512
      > > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
      > > Cub Scout Training Coordinator
      > > Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
      > > 3 Rivers District
      > > Scouting. Good for Life.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • Jamie Niss Dunn
      ... LOL - I may use that analogy the next time someone argues with me. YiS, Jamie Niss Dunn Pack Trainer, Pack 512 Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN Cub Scout Training
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 19, 2009
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        >You don't need a statement, the inspection sheet shows it tucked in. Just because it shows the >scouts fly closed, it does mean it can be open?

        LOL - I may use that analogy the next time someone argues with me.


        YiS,
        Jamie Niss Dunn
        Pack Trainer, Pack 512
        Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
        Cub Scout Training Coordinator
        Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
        3 Rivers District
        Scouting. Good for Life.








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Herbert Dulzo
        Chapter and verse on the national website cites clause 2 http://www.scouting.org/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx herb d
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 19, 2009
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          Chapter and verse on the national website cites clause 2

          http://www.scouting.org/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx

          herb d


          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >You don't need a statement, the inspection sheet shows it tucked in. Just because it shows the >scouts fly closed, it does mean it can be open?
          >
          > LOL - I may use that analogy the next time someone argues with me.
          >
          >
          > YiS,
          > Jamie Niss Dunn
          > Pack Trainer, Pack 512
          > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
          > Cub Scout Training Coordinator
          > Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
          > 3 Rivers District
          > Scouting. Good for Life.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Peter Mullaney
          Devil s Advocate: It reads: Clause 2. The official uniforms authorized It doesn t SAY how it has to be worn, just what uniform is authorized. As for pictures
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 19, 2009
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            Devil's Advocate:

            It reads:
            Clause 2. The official uniforms authorized

            It doesn't SAY how it has to be worn, just what uniform is authorized.

            As for pictures (and the fly analogy)-
            What if I don't wear a neckerchief, bola, or tie, do I HAVE to leave the
            top button unbuttoned? (I've had people tell me I should.) Is there a
            picture showing it one way or another? Would you tell me that if both are
            acceptable there would be multiple pictures? Should anyone care as long as
            I don't look like a slob?

            Personally I want my scouts to have tucked in shirts - no matter how the
            shirt is cut, but if a woman wore it untucked and it looked tasteful I
            really wouldn't care.

            Unless there is somewhere that specifically states how the shirt should be
            worn, I would suggest two possibilities to the original question - tell the
            unit to set unit restrictions, or recommend that whatever is decided it
            should be tasteful.

            Pete M.

            (I only wear Tartan on special occasions, and other neckerchiefs even less
            frequently.)

            On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Herbert Dulzo <hadulzo@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Chapter and verse on the national website cites clause 2
            >
            > http://www.scouting.org/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx
            >
            > herb d
            >
            > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>, Jamie Niss
            > Dunn <JNDunnMN@...> wrote:
            >
            > > >You don't need a statement, the inspection sheet shows it tucked in.
            > Just because it shows the >scouts fly closed, it does mean it can be open?
            > >
            > > LOL - I may use that analogy the next time someone argues with me.
            > >
            > >
            > > YiS,
            > > Jamie Niss Dunn
            > > Pack Trainer, Pack 512
            > > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
            > > Cub Scout Training Coordinator
            > > Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
            > > 3 Rivers District
            > > Scouting. Good for Life.
            > >
            > >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ilively@comcast.net
            My father, born in 1926, always told me that the difference between tucking shirts and non-tucking was the cut of the shirt tails . Rounded tails were
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 20, 2009
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              My father, born in 1926, always told me that the difference between "tucking shirts" and "non-tucking" was the cut of the 'shirt tails'. Rounded tails were ALWAYS tucked; however, square tails could either be tucked or not. Could convention have changed that much?

              Ida
              - who cringes at the number of 'baseball caps' worn while indoors that are NOT a part of a uniform.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Herbert Dulzo
              I was taught the same thing. Also tuck if you are wearing a suitcoat or a tie. So would a necker count as a tie? I am sure the tails were eliminated to
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 20, 2009
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                I was taught the same thing. Also tuck if you are wearing a suitcoat or a tie. So would a necker count as a tie? I am sure the "tails" were eliminated to reduce the amount of fabric used on the centenial uniform. In reality it made them more difficult for the boys to keep them tucked in(adults too).



                This is from men's Warehouse Website(I like what it says at the end):
                When to Tuck in that Shirt
                To tuck or not to tuck, that is the question. With dress clothing, the answer is simple: Youve got to tuck. With sportswear, theres a bit more flexibility. Here are a few pointers and to consider.

                The general rule
                The general rule is that untucked items appear more casual and relaxed. This doesnt mean that leaving casual shirts or sportswear untucked is necessarily inappropriate; it just means that for professional dress casual environments (like golf with a client or a company BBQ), this choice might appear a bit more relaxed than you would prefer.

                Look and design
                Second, consider the look and design of the item in question before opting to untuck it. Dress shirts and sport shirts that have the typical, curved shirt tails are designed to be worn tucked into a waistband. This is why they have the tail design, to allow the shirt to move without coming out altogether.

                In contrast, many sportswear items feature a squared off hem that is designed to be worn either tucked or untucked.

                Use your judgment
                Its best to take a look at yourself in an untucked shirt before running out the door. Think about where youre going, who youre meeting with and the image you want to project. Then decide what makes you feel most comfortable and go with that.

                Herb d



                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Ilively@... wrote:
                >
                > My father, born in 1926, always told me that the difference between "tucking shirts" and "non-tucking" was the cut of the 'shirt tails'. Rounded tails were ALWAYS tucked; however, square tails could either be tucked or not. Could convention have changed that much?
                >
                > Ida
                > - who cringes at the number of 'baseball caps' worn while indoors that are NOT a part of a uniform.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Doug McCullough
                I have always felt that scout shirts should always be tucked in. I always make our boys tuck their shirts in whenever they are inside at a meeting.
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 21, 2009
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                  I have always felt that scout shirts should always be tucked in.
                  I always make our boys tuck their shirts in whenever they are inside at a meeting.

                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Dulzo" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I was taught the same thing. Also tuck if you are wearing a suitcoat or a tie. So would a necker count as a tie? I am sure the "tails" were eliminated to reduce the amount of fabric used on the centenial uniform. In reality it made them more difficult for the boys to keep them tucked in(adults too).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This is from men's Warehouse Website(I like what it says at the end):
                  > When to Tuck in that Shirt
                  > To tuck or not to tuck, that is the question. With dress clothing, the answer is simple: Youve got to tuck. With sportswear, theres a bit more flexibility. Here are a few pointers and to consider.
                  >
                  > The general rule
                  > The general rule is that untucked items appear more casual and relaxed. This doesnt mean that leaving casual shirts or sportswear untucked is necessarily inappropriate; it just means that for professional dress casual environments (like golf with a client or a company BBQ), this choice might appear a bit more relaxed than you would prefer.
                  >
                  > Look and design
                  > Second, consider the look and design of the item in question before opting to untuck it. Dress shirts and sport shirts that have the typical, curved shirt tails are designed to be worn tucked into a waistband. This is why they have the tail design, to allow the shirt to move without coming out altogether.
                  >
                  > In contrast, many sportswear items feature a squared off hem that is designed to be worn either tucked or untucked.
                  >
                  > Use your judgment
                  > Its best to take a look at yourself in an untucked shirt before running out the door. Think about where youre going, who youre meeting with and the image you want to project. Then decide what makes you feel most comfortable and go with that.
                  >
                  > Herb d
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Ilively@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > My father, born in 1926, always told me that the difference between "tucking shirts" and "non-tucking" was the cut of the 'shirt tails'. Rounded tails were ALWAYS tucked; however, square tails could either be tucked or not. Could convention have changed that much?
                  > >
                  > > Ida
                  > > - who cringes at the number of 'baseball caps' worn while indoors that are NOT a part of a uniform.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • Richard C. Pushies
                  Shirts in or shirts out? That is the question. In addition to the previously referenced Clause 2 of the BSA Insignia Guide, consider what the uniform
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 21, 2009
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                    Shirts in or shirts out? That is the question. In addition to the previously referenced Clause 2 of the BSA Insignia Guide, consider what the uniform inspection sheets state:

                    http://209.246.150.220/BSASupply/images/pdfs/34048.pdf

                    "Uniform Inspection.
                    Conduct the uniform inspection with common sense; the basic rule is neatness."

                    So let common sense prevail. Uniforms are traditionally worn uniformly and all the examples provided in Scouting catalogs, the Scout Stuff web site and the uniform inspection sheets has uniform shirts uniformly tucked in. However, if a den leader is 8 months pregnant, common sense would dictate leaving the shirt tail out. I expect, having never been 8 months pregnant myself. I do remember my wife being in that condition on several occassions some years back.

                    That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

                    Yours Truly in Scouting,
                    Rick Pushies
                  • Herbert Dulzo
                    I don t want to sound sexist but I wouldn t want to be the scouter who told a pregnant woman to tuck her shirt in! Herb D. Chicago
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 22, 2009
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                      I don't want to sound sexist but I wouldn't want to be the scouter who told a pregnant woman to tuck her shirt in!

                      Herb D.
                      Chicago
                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Shirts in or shirts out? That is the question. In addition to the previously referenced Clause 2 of the BSA Insignia Guide, consider what the uniform inspection sheets state:
                      >
                      > http://209.246.150.220/BSASupply/images/pdfs/34048.pdf
                      >
                      > "Uniform Inspection.
                      > Conduct the uniform inspection with common sense; the basic rule is neatness."
                      >
                      > So let common sense prevail. Uniforms are traditionally worn uniformly and all the examples provided in Scouting catalogs, the Scout Stuff web site and the uniform inspection sheets has uniform shirts uniformly tucked in. However, if a den leader is 8 months pregnant, common sense would dictate leaving the shirt tail out. I expect, having never been 8 months pregnant myself. I do remember my wife being in that condition on several occassions some years back.
                      >
                      > That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
                      >
                      > Yours Truly in Scouting,
                      > Rick Pushies
                      >
                    • Richard C. Pushies
                      Hi Herb, It is clear by your post that you do understand common sense! I ve never been one to encourage telling others what to do. Encouraging them to do the
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 22, 2009
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                        Hi Herb,

                        It is clear by your post that you do understand common sense! I've never been one to encourage telling others what to do. Encouraging them to do the right thing seems a better approach.

                        Rick

                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Dulzo" <jamboguy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I don't want to sound sexist but I wouldn't want to be the scouter who told a pregnant woman to tuck her shirt in!
                        >
                        > Herb D.
                        > Chicago
                        > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Shirts in or shirts out? That is the question. In addition to the previously referenced Clause 2 of the BSA Insignia Guide, consider what the uniform inspection sheets state:
                        > >
                        > > http://209.246.150.220/BSASupply/images/pdfs/34048.pdf
                        > >
                        > > "Uniform Inspection.
                        > > Conduct the uniform inspection with common sense; the basic rule is neatness."
                        > >
                        > > So let common sense prevail. Uniforms are traditionally worn uniformly and all the examples provided in Scouting catalogs, the Scout Stuff web site and the uniform inspection sheets has uniform shirts uniformly tucked in. However, if a den leader is 8 months pregnant, common sense would dictate leaving the shirt tail out. I expect, having never been 8 months pregnant myself. I do remember my wife being in that condition on several occassions some years back.
                        > >
                        > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
                        > >
                        > > Yours Truly in Scouting,
                        > > Rick Pushies
                        > >
                        >
                      • Herbert Dulzo
                        I am thinking if we don t need to go by illustrations does that mean we can wear convertables with one leg on and one leg off? It doesn t say anywhere that we
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 22, 2009
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                          I am thinking if we don't need to go by illustrations does that mean we can wear convertables with one leg on and one leg off? It doesn't say anywhere that we can't do that so does that mean we can?

                          BTW
                          when I purchased my new centennial uniform I elected to leave some of my knots off, actually a row of them. I elected to save money, not try my wife's patience sewing them and make my uniform a little less showy.
                          Basically I think I eliminate all the Cub knots, I have little to do with the cub program. Anyone else do the same thing?

                          Herb D.

                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Herb,
                          >
                          > It is clear by your post that you do understand common sense! I've never been one to encourage telling others what to do. Encouraging them to do the right thing seems a better approach.
                          >
                          > Rick
                          >
                          > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Dulzo" <jamboguy@> wrote:
                          >
                        • Rick Pushies
                          Hi Herb, One leg on and one leg off, interesting! I bet you get along with Boy Scouts rather well. I have not made the switch to the new centennial uniform.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 22, 2009
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                            Hi Herb,



                            One leg on and one leg off, interesting! I bet you get along with Boy Scouts
                            rather well.



                            I have not made the switch to the new centennial uniform. After I drop some
                            weight and become a less well rounded Scouter. Your wife sews on your
                            patches? Wow! Mom taught me how to sew on my patches when I was a Boy Scout.
                            I am still sewing them on and I hate those little knot patches!



                            How is the new Trainer's EDGE being received around Chicago?



                            Yours Truly in Scouting,

                            Rick Pushies



                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of Herbert Dulzo
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:48 PM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: shirts in or out








                            I am thinking if we don't need to go by illustrations does that mean we can
                            wear convertables with one leg on and one leg off? It doesn't say anywhere
                            that we can't do that so does that mean we can?

                            BTW
                            when I purchased my new centennial uniform I elected to leave some of my
                            knots off, actually a row of them. I elected to save money, not try my
                            wife's patience sewing them and make my uniform a little less showy.
                            Basically I think I eliminate all the Cub knots, I have little to do with
                            the cub program. Anyone else do the same thing?

                            Herb D.

                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Herb,
                            >
                            > It is clear by your post that you do understand common sense! I've never
                            been one to encourage telling others what to do. Encouraging them to do the
                            right thing seems a better approach.
                            >
                            > Rick
                            >
                            > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            "Herbert Dulzo" <jamboguy@> wrote:
                            >





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Herbert Dulzo
                            Pants: When they first came out our DE wore them like that to advertise them. Pretty funny looking. My mom had me sewing on patches at den meetings. My wife
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 23, 2009
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                              Pants: When they first came out our DE wore them like that to advertise them. Pretty funny looking.

                              My mom had me sewing on patches at den meetings. My wife is a quilter so she sews and I cut the grass (do what your're good at)

                              TE was just run for the Woodbadge course as far as I know.. No one ever came the Train the Trainer course anyway..... Not a lot of turnover with trainers. I think its one of the only jobs available in Illinois, to bad it doesn't pay.
                              Herb d

                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Herb,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > One leg on and one leg off, interesting! I bet you get along with Boy Scouts
                              > rather well.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I have not made the switch to the new centennial uniform. After I drop some
                              > weight and become a less well rounded Scouter. Your wife sews on your
                              > patches? Wow! Mom taught me how to sew on my patches when I was a Boy Scout.
                              > I am still sewing them on and I hate those little knot patches!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > How is the new Trainer's EDGE being received around Chicago?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • SeanWaiss@aol.com
                              Herb, I did the same after purchasing the new uniform. I did not include the Cub knots on it, not for the savings you noted, but because I thought the uniform
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 23, 2009
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                                Herb, I did the same after purchasing the new uniform. I did not include the Cub knots on it, not for the savings you noted, but because I thought the uniform should be more subdued and the Cub knots are anything but.

                                That said, my youngest will be a new Cub next year and I will most likely end up being a Cub leader once again (hey, there's a new Pack Trainer Award knot I don't have yet!), but I will use one of my ODL uniforms for Cubbing until after NJ2010 since that event requires a couple more new uniforms for me. Afterwards I'll convert one of the Jambo shirts into a Cub shirt, and another into a District shirt, both with all earned knots included. But my Troop shirt(s) will remain subdued.

                                Sean Waiss
                                Southeast Wisconsin Council
                                NJ2010 Troop 1025 2nd Asst SM
                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: "Herbert Dulzo" <jamboguy@...>

                                Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:47:37
                                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: shirts in or out


                                I am thinking if we don't need to go by illustrations does that mean we can wear convertables with one leg on and one leg off? It doesn't say anywhere that we can't do that so does that mean we can?

                                BTW
                                when I purchased my new centennial uniform I elected to leave some of my knots off, actually a row of them. I elected to save money, not try my wife's patience sewing them and make my uniform a little less showy.
                                Basically I think I eliminate all the Cub knots, I have little to do with the cub program. Anyone else do the same thing?

                                Herb D.

                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Herb,
                                >
                                > It is clear by your post that you do understand common sense! I've never been one to encourage telling others what to do. Encouraging them to do the right thing seems a better approach.
                                >
                                > Rick
                                >
                                > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Dulzo" <jamboguy@> wrote:
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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