Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [scots-origins] Re: names

Expand Messages
  • rob smith
    Isn t that the problem with all naming systems? The same names come up. I was Bob s Bobby and my brother was little Adam (as opposed to his uncle Big
    Message 1 of 35 , Nov 13, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Isn't that the problem with all naming systems? The same names come up. I was "Bob's Bobby" and my brother was "little Adam" (as opposed to his uncle "Big Adam"). There were three Helen's "Big Helen" (older), "Little Helen", and "Ollie's Helen" (she married into the family).  We all knew who we were!



      --- On Wed, 11/11/09, ScotHeritage@... <ScotHeritage@...> wrote:

      From: ScotHeritage@... <ScotHeritage@...>
      Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: names
      To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:14 PM







       











      All the talk of naming patterns is very interesting, but it should be

      remembered that first and family names mean/meant little or nothing in the

      Highlands. It is not unusual to have, in a small village school, a large number

      of children who shared the same names. We identified everyone by a nick

      name.

      Examples:

      Willie Charger.... ran off when the rent man came.

      Young Jock the Coo .... Knew everything to know about cattle

      Rab the Coo...... Jock's younger brother

      Old Jock the Coo... their father

      Black Tierlach (Charlie) ... Just a mean SOB

      Dave



      In a message dated 11/11/2009 10:44:15 A.M. Central Standard Time,

      rbsmithwrite@ yahoo.com writes:



      One more note on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used

      until the 1800s. When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified the

      grandparent for whom the child was named. In my grandmother' One more note

      on middle names. In my family middle names weren't used until the 1800s.

      When they were, they were surnames that clearly identified the grandparent

      for whom the child was named. In my grandmother' <WBR>s case she was

      "Elizabeth May Jamieson" and she was named for her maOne more note on middle names.

      In my family middle names weren't used until the 1800s. When they were,

      they were surnames that clearly identified the grandparent for whom the child

      was named. In my grandmother' <WBR>s case she was "Elizabeth May Jamieson"

      and she was named for her maternal grandmother who was "Elizabeth May". The

      same was true of her sisters ("Agnes Cochrane" and "Flora McFee" all with

      the surname "Jamieson"). The strength of this family tradition is m



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • davidwwebster1
      There was indeed a longstanding tradition in Scotland of naming wains after their grandparents..... First son after the paternal grandfather Second son after
      Message 35 of 35 , Nov 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        There was indeed a longstanding tradition in Scotland of naming wains after their grandparents.....

        First son after the paternal grandfather
        Second son after the maternal grandfather
        Third son after the parent

        First daughter after the maternal grandmother
        Second daughter after the paternal grandmother
        Third daughter after the mother.

        Note that in some parts of Scotland the paternal/maternal
        relationship was reversed in terms of the first two sons and daughters.

        After the first three wains of whatever sex, the eldest siblings
        of the parents tended to be used.

        But I have never ever yet come across an example of the suggested naming pattern involving greatgrandparents and/or uncles/aunts and greatuncles/aunts that cover 8 sons and 8 daughters !!

        Such a pattern, I'd suggest, is a pure myth !

        If anyone out there can provide me with such an example, backed up by clear documentary evidence in the Scottish records, I'll eat whatever hat that they care to nominate.

        Never mind that I'd dearly like to use such an example in my next appropriate lecture !! <g>

        Yes, it's far from uncommon to find the first 3 sons' and 3 daughters' given names matching the above pattern, but it's equally common to find this pattern being 'interfered' with by infant deaths, - sometimes the name was 'recycled', sometimes not.

        And equally common to find that the names of 4th and subsequent sons and daughters, while eldest siblings of the parents often come into the situation, cannot, in my experience be shown reliably to follow any pattern other than that of given names that are common in the family tree. Equally common, however, my experience is that the given names of fourth and subsequent wains can produce surprises ! <g>

        And sometimes other family events, such as the death of an aged relative led to a deviation from the above 'ideal' pattern.


        As regards family surnames used as middle names, the aristocracy apart, this was quite uncommon prior to the early decades of the 1800s.

        Thereafter, the practice became widespread, but, in my experience there was no pattern, other than that, -

        ... the first such surname to be used was the mother's maiden name, but this was often repeated for many wains ....

        ... if the mother's maiden surname wasn't repeated, then the father's mother's maiden name came into play, thereafter maiden surnames in previous generations, - which can obviously be extremely valuable research clues.

        ... but watch out for the use of such middle names where there is absolutely no family connection, - from wide experience, there are many such reasons !!

        Orraverybest

        David

        David W Webster FSA Scot

        email: davidwwebster@...
        www: www.rossgenealogy.co.uk

        --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks@..." <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
        >
        > Elaine: Well I don't have it written down as such but with experience with my own line and others that i have reseached, the object of the Scottish nameing is to honor past living and dead relatives. Example first son is almost always named after the father, if he has a middle name it is frequently his mothers maiden surname. Daughters aee named after the mother, grandmothers, and aunts, sons follow this procedure too. Here is an example of my settler whose name was John, first son was named John, 2nd son was named James, both sons named one of their sons John, the daughter of the settler named her first born John . They are reffered to in the family bible as: John, John Jr, John 2 and John 3. If you think that is bad look at the Germans. I have 4 brothers who came from Germany among my ancestors all four of them were named Johann, however they all had different middle names and thats what they were called by.
        >
        > Gordon Crooks
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Elaine Rosenberg
        > To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:18 AM
        > Subject: [scots-origins] names
        >
        >
        > Hi,
        > I have been trying to work out family names in my husbands Scottish line. Is there a pattern to naming children etc. as some of the names seem to have surnames for middle names..Can you help me sort this out please?
        > Elaine
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.18/2437 - Release Date: 10/15/09 03:57:00
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.