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Re: [scots-origins] names

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  • canadaeast_98@yahoo.com
    Usually the first born, male is named for the grandfather .  This happenes often.  In the case of the first female sometimes they were named for the
    Message 1 of 35 , Oct 16, 2009
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      Usually the first born, male is named for the grandfather .  This happenes often.  In the case of the first female sometimes they were named for the grandmother but not always

      --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Elaine Rosenberg <ekayr17@...> wrote:


      From: Elaine Rosenberg <ekayr17@...>
      Subject: [scots-origins] names
      To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 3:18 PM


       



      Hi,
      I have been trying to work out family names in my husbands Scottish line. Is there a pattern to naming children etc. as some of the names seem to have surnames for middle names..Can you help me sort this out please?
      Elaine

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    • davidwwebster1
      There was indeed a longstanding tradition in Scotland of naming wains after their grandparents..... First son after the paternal grandfather Second son after
      Message 35 of 35 , Nov 14, 2009
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        There was indeed a longstanding tradition in Scotland of naming wains after their grandparents.....

        First son after the paternal grandfather
        Second son after the maternal grandfather
        Third son after the parent

        First daughter after the maternal grandmother
        Second daughter after the paternal grandmother
        Third daughter after the mother.

        Note that in some parts of Scotland the paternal/maternal
        relationship was reversed in terms of the first two sons and daughters.

        After the first three wains of whatever sex, the eldest siblings
        of the parents tended to be used.

        But I have never ever yet come across an example of the suggested naming pattern involving greatgrandparents and/or uncles/aunts and greatuncles/aunts that cover 8 sons and 8 daughters !!

        Such a pattern, I'd suggest, is a pure myth !

        If anyone out there can provide me with such an example, backed up by clear documentary evidence in the Scottish records, I'll eat whatever hat that they care to nominate.

        Never mind that I'd dearly like to use such an example in my next appropriate lecture !! <g>

        Yes, it's far from uncommon to find the first 3 sons' and 3 daughters' given names matching the above pattern, but it's equally common to find this pattern being 'interfered' with by infant deaths, - sometimes the name was 'recycled', sometimes not.

        And equally common to find that the names of 4th and subsequent sons and daughters, while eldest siblings of the parents often come into the situation, cannot, in my experience be shown reliably to follow any pattern other than that of given names that are common in the family tree. Equally common, however, my experience is that the given names of fourth and subsequent wains can produce surprises ! <g>

        And sometimes other family events, such as the death of an aged relative led to a deviation from the above 'ideal' pattern.


        As regards family surnames used as middle names, the aristocracy apart, this was quite uncommon prior to the early decades of the 1800s.

        Thereafter, the practice became widespread, but, in my experience there was no pattern, other than that, -

        ... the first such surname to be used was the mother's maiden name, but this was often repeated for many wains ....

        ... if the mother's maiden surname wasn't repeated, then the father's mother's maiden name came into play, thereafter maiden surnames in previous generations, - which can obviously be extremely valuable research clues.

        ... but watch out for the use of such middle names where there is absolutely no family connection, - from wide experience, there are many such reasons !!

        Orraverybest

        David

        David W Webster FSA Scot

        email: davidwwebster@...
        www: www.rossgenealogy.co.uk

        --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks@..." <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
        >
        > Elaine: Well I don't have it written down as such but with experience with my own line and others that i have reseached, the object of the Scottish nameing is to honor past living and dead relatives. Example first son is almost always named after the father, if he has a middle name it is frequently his mothers maiden surname. Daughters aee named after the mother, grandmothers, and aunts, sons follow this procedure too. Here is an example of my settler whose name was John, first son was named John, 2nd son was named James, both sons named one of their sons John, the daughter of the settler named her first born John . They are reffered to in the family bible as: John, John Jr, John 2 and John 3. If you think that is bad look at the Germans. I have 4 brothers who came from Germany among my ancestors all four of them were named Johann, however they all had different middle names and thats what they were called by.
        >
        > Gordon Crooks
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Elaine Rosenberg
        > To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:18 AM
        > Subject: [scots-origins] names
        >
        >
        > Hi,
        > I have been trying to work out family names in my husbands Scottish line. Is there a pattern to naming children etc. as some of the names seem to have surnames for middle names..Can you help me sort this out please?
        > Elaine
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
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