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Re: [scots-origins] Re: Passenger List?

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  • ScotHeritage@aol.com
    There are a few things below that seem a bit hard to swallow, especially considering the kitchen...if you know what I mean, about southern Kitchens serving
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 24, 2009
      There are a few things below that seem a bit hard to swallow, especially
      considering the kitchen...if you know what I mean, about "southern Kitchens"
      serving Scottish meals.

      It seem very unlikely that ships from Edinburgh would be wasted carrying
      records to London. It seems more unlikely that the 7 ships would all sink.

      The crown, Scottish and English, for that matter all of them, are not known
      for throwing their pennies about. Considering 7 ships would demand a very
      minimal crew of at least 200 men, All needing food water etc., it is more
      likely that the records would be loaded on wagons and given an escort of 5
      or 10 dragoons. There was little danger of anyone trying to steel the
      records as the South of Scotland was pro King George, and took considerable
      pleasure in slaughtering the Highlands.
      Dave
      PS not saying it could not happen, after all it was weather that stopped
      the Armada, and the French reserve for the Jacobites.

      In a message dated 4/23/2009 11:23:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
      rickadam0@... writes:


      --- In _scots-origins@scots-originsco_
      (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com) , ScotHeritage@, Scot
      >
      >
      > 1772 is after the Union of Parliaments, (1707) so there is a very good
      > chance your records may be in England. Perhaps I would suggest you try
      Lloyds
      > Insurance. There is also the Clyde Maritime Museum at the Brae Head Mall
      in
      > Glasgow. Not sure what or if they have passenger lists/manifests.
      >
      > In a message dated 4/20/2009 11:20:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
      > kacilusk@... writes:
      >
      >
      > I was looking through some books in our local genealogy department and
      came
      > across something I think may be helpful. I had read somewhere else that
      > Alexander Morrison came from Scotland with his widowed mother and three
      > sisters in 1772 on the Ship "Pearl" to North Carolina. In this book of
      > ships, I found a Ship called "Pearl of Glasgow" that sailed from
      Scotland
      > to
      > NC in 1772 but I have not been able to find the passenger list anywhere.
      > Does anyone have a resource for this?
      >
      > Thank you all so very much for all of your help so far!!
      >
      > Kaci

      My own research had found that 7 ships were involved in transferring the
      records to London,after the '45, and that they were sunk during a violent
      storm on the journey there.

      Resulting in the permanent loss of many records, I can't recall the exact
      date, but would expect it was fairly shortly after the'45, so you may find
      some shipping records from later dates, but many OPRs and other records
      were most likely all lost.




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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kaci Lusk
      I m sorry, I m kinda lost. Are you suggesting that I go to a museum in Glasgow, Scotland? I m new to searching for ships. Thanks and I apologise for my
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 24, 2009
        I'm sorry, I'm kinda lost. Are you suggesting that I go to a museum in
        Glasgow, Scotland? I'm new to searching for ships.

        Thanks and I apologise for my ignorance.

        Kaci


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • B J Magel
        I always heed what this writer passes along to us .... All the doubts expressed re the shipping of records popped into my mind when I read the earlier msgs.
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 24, 2009
          I always heed what this writer passes along to us ....



          All the doubts expressed re the shipping of records popped into my mind when I read the earlier msgs.



          I'm a mixture of Highland and Border Scots so I always find the Highlander vs the Border folks conflicts interesting. (with some English and Irish thrown into just to make a combative mix ... and a few more generations back a Swiss-German and a Dutch ancestor popped into the mix - those of us in Canada and the USA are really a crazy quilt of blood lines).



          But the costs of shipping seemed rather monumental vs wagons.

          Bev









          EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
          Join me



          > To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
          > From: ScotHeritage@...
          > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:07:27 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: Passenger List?
          >
          >
          > There are a few things below that seem a bit hard to swallow, especially
          > considering the kitchen...if you know what I mean, about "southern Kitchens"
          > serving Scottish meals.
          >
          > It seem very unlikely that ships from Edinburgh would be wasted carrying
          > records to London. It seems more unlikely that the 7 ships would all sink.
          >
          > The crown, Scottish and English, for that matter all of them, are not known
          > for throwing their pennies about. Considering 7 ships would demand a very
          > minimal crew of at least 200 men, All needing food water etc., it is more
          > likely that the records would be loaded on wagons and given an escort of 5
          > or 10 dragoons. There was little danger of anyone trying to steel the
          > records as the South of Scotland was pro King George, and took considerable
          > pleasure in slaughtering the Highlands.
          > Dave
          > PS not saying it could not happen, after all it was weather that stopped
          > the Armada, and the French reserve for the Jacobites.
          >
          > In a message dated 4/23/2009 11:23:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
          > rickadam0@... writes:
          >
          >
          > --- In _scots-origins@scots-originsco_
          > (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com) , ScotHeritage@, Scot
          > >
          > >
          > > 1772 is after the Union of Parliaments, (1707) so there is a very good
          > > chance your records may be in England. Perhaps I would suggest you try
          > Lloyds
          > > Insurance. There is also the Clyde Maritime Museum at the Brae Head Mall
          > in
          > > Glasgow. Not sure what or if they have passenger lists/manifests.
          > >
          > > In a message dated 4/20/2009 11:20:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
          > > kacilusk@... writes:
          > >
          > >
          > > I was looking through some books in our local genealogy department and
          > came
          > > across something I think may be helpful. I had read somewhere else that
          > > Alexander Morrison came from Scotland with his widowed mother and three
          > > sisters in 1772 on the Ship "Pearl" to North Carolina. In this book of
          > > ships, I found a Ship called "Pearl of Glasgow" that sailed from
          > Scotland
          > > to
          > > NC in 1772 but I have not been able to find the passenger list anywhere.
          > > Does anyone have a resource for this?
          > >
          > > Thank you all so very much for all of your help so far!!
          > >
          > > Kaci
          >
          > My own research had found that 7 ships were involved in transferring the
          > records to London,after the '45, and that they were sunk during a violent
          > storm on the journey there.
          >
          > Resulting in the permanent loss of many records, I can't recall the exact
          > date, but would expect it was fairly shortly after the'45, so you may find
          > some shipping records from later dates, but many OPRs and other records
          > were most likely all lost.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
          > Steps!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221421330x1201417418/aol?redi
          > r=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Ap
          > rilAvgfooter424NO62)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rick Adam
          ... I always heed what this writer passes along to us .... All the doubts expressed re the shipping of records popped into my mind when I read the earlier
          Message 4 of 8 , May 4, 2009
            --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, B J Magel <b_magel@...> wrote:


            I always heed what this writer passes along to us ....

            All the doubts expressed re the shipping of records popped into my mind
            when I read the earlier msgs.

            I'm a mixture of Highland and Border Scots so I always find the
            Highlander vs the Border folks conflicts interesting. (with some
            English and Irish thrown into just to make a combative mix ... and a few
            more generations back a Swiss-German and a Dutch ancestor popped into
            the mix - those of us in Canada and the USA are really a crazy quilt of
            blood lines).

            But the costs of shipping seemed rather monumental vs wagons.

            Bev

            > > It seem very unlikely that ships from Edinburgh would be wasted
            carrying
            > > records to London. It seems more unlikely that the 7 ships would all
            sink.
            > >
            > > The crown, Scottish and English, for that matter all of them, are
            not known
            > > for throwing their pennies about. Considering 7 ships would demand a
            very
            > > minimal crew of at least 200 men, All needing food water etc., it is
            more
            > > likely that the records would be loaded on wagons and given an
            escort of 5
            > > or 10 dragoons. There was little danger of anyone trying to steel
            the
            > > records as the South of Scotland was pro King George, and took
            considerable
            > > pleasure in slaughtering the Highlands.
            > > Dave
            > > PS not saying it could not happen, after all it was weather that
            stopped
            > > the Armada, and the French reserve for the Jacobites.
            > >
            > > In a message dated 4/23/2009 11:23:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
            > > rickadam0@... writes:
            >
            1772 is after the Union of Parliaments, (1707) so there is a very good
            > > > chance your records may be in England. Perhaps I would suggest you
            try
            > > Lloyds Insurance. There is also the Clyde Maritime Museum at the
            Brae Head Mall
            > > in Glasgow. Not sure what or if they have passenger lists/manifests.
            > > >
            > > > In a message dated 4/20/2009 11:20:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
            > > > kacilusk@ writes:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I was looking through some books in our local genealogy department
            and
            > > came
            > > > across something I think may be helpful. I had read somewhere else
            that
            > > > Alexander Morrison came from Scotland with his widowed mother and
            three
            > > > sisters in 1772 on the Ship "Pearl" to North Carolina. In this
            book of
            > > > ships, I found a Ship called "Pearl of Glasgow" that sailed from
            > > Scotland
            > > > to
            > > > NC in 1772 but I have not been able to find the passenger list
            anywhere.
            > > > Does anyone have a resource for this?
            > > >
            > > > Thank you all so very much for all of your help so far!!
            > > >
            > > > Kaci
            > >

            > > My own research had found that 7 ships were involved in transferring
            the
            > > records to London,after the '45, and that they were sunk during a
            violent
            > > storm on the journey there.
            > >
            > > Resulting in the permanent loss of many records, I can't recall the
            exact
            > > date, but would expect it was fairly shortly after the'45, so you
            may find
            > > some shipping records from later dates, but many OPRs and other
            records
            > > were most likely all lost.
            > >
            > >
            > >

            **********************************************************
            Here I quote from Rampant Scotland.

            December 18 1661
            Many Scottish historical records were lost when the ship Elizabeth of
            Burntisland sank off the English coast. The records had been taken to
            London by Oliver Cromwell and were being returned to Edinburgh.

            This is not the instance I was referring to, I mention it only as an
            example, of England being mainly a seafaring nation at this time.

            With hostile allies [Scotland and France] "The Auld Alliance" bordering
            on each side, the armies of "Butcher Cumberland" would be concerned
            with revenge for the '45 and the possibility of the French taking
            advantage of the situation.
            His forces from the south [if such a "waggon train" were involved
            transporting documents] being too far away to resist attack from France
            being mounted.

            "My own research had found that 7 ships [not necessarily ships of the
            line] were involved in transferring the records to London,after the '45,
            [ likely most of them being Scottish coastal traders, not warships,
            press-ganged into these efforts], and that they were all sunk during a
            violent storm on the journey there."

            The Aberdeen Maritime Museum has a display of many ships sinking, in
            this manner, as do Spanish records, the Edinburgh Public Library would
            be a good place to start, when looking for records of this alleged
            event.

            Remember these was the prelude to efforts to systematically rob Scots
            of their heritage, their culture and their history as well as to
            exterminate the Highland Clans. Therefore, costs involved would largely
            be recovered by the further looting of Scotland.

            When I can relocate my sources, I will cite them properly!

            Sincerely,
            Rick A
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