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Re: Looking for DNA indexes

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  • jdm76116
    Dennis, Have you checked out the International Society of Genetic Genealogy site at: [ ISOGG 2009 Y-DNA Haplogroup R ] jdm76116 ... bases? My family tree
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 13, 2009
      Dennis,

      Have you checked out the International Society of Genetic Genealogy site
      at: [ ISOGG 2009 Y-DNA Haplogroup R ]

      jdm76116
      --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, Dennis <oldphardt@...> wrote:
      >
      > My question to the group is: "Are there any Scotland based DNA data
      bases?" My family tree research hit a dead end in 1650 Canada. Records
      showing where my oldest ancestor came from or who his parents are is
      either destroyed or never existed. I now have the results of a 'Y'
      chromosome DNA test (yes, I passed the test) which shows close matches
      primarily living in Scotland. My family name is french but there is
      virtually no matching DNA in France - so it is very unlikely that I am
      actually of french origin. At this point I am guessing that my family
      origin is actually Scotish or perhaps from Yorkshire area of England.
      >
      > Any help in the DNA direction would be helpful. I have access to the
      "Family Tree DNA" site in US but nothing in UK.
      >
      > Dennis LeBlanc
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Gilda Aitken
      Have you thought of checking the Channel Islands? Many of the families there have French names but regard themselves as British. The records there are also
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 13, 2009
        Have you thought of checking the Channel Islands? Many of the families there have French names but regard themselves as British. The records there are also pretty good. Just a thought.

        Gilda

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Dennis
        To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:30 AM
        Subject: [scots-origins] Looking for DNA indexes


        My question to the group is: "Are there any Scotland based DNA data bases?" My family tree research hit a dead end in 1650 Canada. Records showing where my oldest ancestor came from or who his parents are is either destroyed or never existed. I now have the results of a 'Y' chromosome DNA test (yes, I passed the test) which shows close matches primarily living in Scotland. My family name is french but there is virtually no matching DNA in France - so it is very unlikely that I am actually of french origin. At this point I am guessing that my family origin is actually Scotish or perhaps from Yorkshire area of England.

        Any help in the DNA direction would be helpful. I have access to the "Family Tree DNA" site in US but nothing in UK.

        Dennis LeBlanc

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William K. Kelley
        A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 17, 2009
          A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
          French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a French background. Ken
        • KS
          Can females get DNA tests? Thank you, Karen Walters Clan Stuart  Remember: Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 17, 2009
            Can females get DNA tests?
            Thank you,
            Karen Walters
            Clan Stuart
             Remember: Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.




            ________________________________
            From: jdm76116 <jdm76116@...>
            To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02:34 PM
            Subject: [scots-origins] Re: Looking for DNA indexes



            Dennis,

            Have you checked out the International Society of Genetic Genealogy site
            at: [ ISOGG 2009 Y-DNA Haplogroup R ]

            jdm76116
            --- In scots-origins@ yahoogroups. com, Dennis <oldphardt@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > My question to the group is: "Are there any Scotland based DNA data
            bases?" My family tree research hit a dead end in 1650 Canada. Records
            showing where my oldest ancestor came from or who his parents are is
            either destroyed or never existed. I now have the results of a 'Y'
            chromosome DNA test (yes, I passed the test) which shows close matches
            primarily living in Scotland. My family name is french but there is
            virtually no matching DNA in France - so it is very unlikely that I am
            actually of french origin. At this point I am guessing that my family
            origin is actually Scotish or perhaps from Yorkshire area of England.
            >
            > Any help in the DNA direction would be helpful. I have access to the
            "Family Tree DNA" site in US but nothing in UK.
            >
            > Dennis LeBlanc
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rose Partheymuller
            It was a country called Normandy. At the time not actually part of France. ... From: William K. Kelley Date: 3/18/2009 11:53:56 AM To:
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
              It was a country called Normandy. At the time not actually part of France.


              -------Original Message-------

              From: William K. Kelley
              Date: 3/18/2009 11:53:56 AM
              To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scots-origins] French names

              A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An
              awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for
              friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given
              name to mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
              French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a
              French background. Ken







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • secondcity32
              ... To whom this may concern: My name is Minette and it is a french name with orgins in the willimenia, virgin Mary, or meaning light. But I dont know if I
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
                --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "William K. Kelley" <kelley.v@...> wrote:
                >
                > A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
                > French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a French background. Ken
                >
                To whom this may concern:

                My name is Minette and it is a french name with orgins in the willimenia, virgin Mary, or meaning light. But I dont know if I have a french background. Because my maiden name is hoston. But I not sure of anything. I am black and just like you searching for the truth of my background.

                Minette L Siegman (Hoston)
              • sfowlston@goldengate.net
                Yes but only to trace your maternal line. You can trace your paternal line if a male relative, father, brother, son of a brother, father s brother, or son of
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
                  Yes but only to trace your maternal line. You can trace your paternal
                  line if a male relative, father, brother, son of a brother, father's
                  brother, or son of father's brother is willing to be tested for that line.

                  Sarah

                  > Can females get DNA tests?
                  > Thank you,
                  > Karen Walters
                  > Clan Stuart
                  >  Remember: Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: jdm76116 <jdm76116@...>
                  > To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02:34 PM
                  > Subject: [scots-origins] Re: Looking for DNA indexes
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dennis,
                  >
                  > Have you checked out the International Society of Genetic Genealogy site
                  > at: [ ISOGG 2009 Y-DNA Haplogroup R ]
                  >
                  > jdm76116
                  > --- In scots-origins@ yahoogroups. com, Dennis <oldphardt@. ..> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> My question to the group is: "Are there any Scotland based DNA data
                  > bases?" My family tree research hit a dead end in 1650 Canada. Records
                  > showing where my oldest ancestor came from or who his parents are is
                  > either destroyed or never existed. I now have the results of a 'Y'
                  > chromosome DNA test (yes, I passed the test) which shows close matches
                  > primarily living in Scotland. My family name is french but there is
                  > virtually no matching DNA in France - so it is very unlikely that I am
                  > actually of french origin. At this point I am guessing that my family
                  > origin is actually Scotish or perhaps from Yorkshire area of England.
                  >>
                  >> Any help in the DNA direction would be helpful. I have access to the
                  > "Family Tree DNA" site in US but nothing in UK.
                  >>
                  >> Dennis LeBlanc
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Ann Rankin
                  The name Rankin is an ancient Nordic name. It came to the Scottish/Irish/ English Islands in the 6th century. I am in search of the branch from Scotland, who
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
                    The name Rankin is an ancient Nordic
                    name. It came to the Scottish/Irish/
                    English Islands in the 6th century. I
                    am in search of the branch from
                    Scotland, who came in 1640, from
                    Scotland to Maine. If you have any
                    leads, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
                    -- Ann E. Rankin

                    --- On Tue, 3/17/09, William K. Kelley <kelley.v@...> wrote:


                    From: William K. Kelley <kelley.v@...>
                    Subject: [scots-origins] French names
                    To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:11 AM


                    A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
                    French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a French background.                                 Ken
                                                                                     
                                                                                         






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                    Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com

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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ann Rankin
                    The name Rankin is an ancient Nordic name. It came to the Scottish/Irish/ English Islands in the 6th century. I am in search of the branch from Scotland, who
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
                      The name Rankin is an ancient Nordic
                      name. It came to the Scottish/Irish/
                      English Islands in the 6th century. I
                      am in search of the branch from
                      Scotland, who came in 1640, from
                      Scotland to Maine. If you have any
                      leads, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
                      -- Ann E. Rankin

                      --- On Tue, 3/17/09, William K. Kelley <kelley.v@...> wrote:


                      From: William K. Kelley <kelley.v@...>
                      Subject: [scots-origins] French names
                      To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:11 AM


                      A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
                      French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a French background.                                 Ken
                                                                                       
                                                                                           






                      ------------------------------------

                      -------------------------------------------------------
                      This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                      Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com

                      To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                      The French never concurred England. The Normans invaded and won at the Battle of Hastings, in 1066. More precisely, William the Bastard of Normandy won on the
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 18, 2009
                        The French never concurred England. The Normans invaded and won at the
                        Battle of Hastings, in 1066. More precisely, William the Bastard of Normandy won
                        on the field that day. But lets remember that Harold and his Saxon men had just
                        beaten off the Vikings and then moved south to Hastings. William became
                        William the First on December 25, 1066. I know this is correct, I can show you
                        the strap marks hahahaha.

                        The Normans were not French, as we think of France as a nation. They were
                        Vikings who had settled in what is now Normandy and beaten or integrated with
                        the natives.

                        If we go back a bit from them we hit the Angles and Saxons who migrated to
                        the UK.

                        Now here is one for the Scots who laugh at the Canooks and Yanks for saying
                        Edin-burg the Franks defeated the local Scots and took Edinburgh castle. Ok
                        so what do Franks with Anglos, Saxons or Normans. Well nothing but I forgot
                        it was them until I got to that bit.


                        A lot of the French Huguenots came to New France and New Brunswick etc.
                        (Acadians) (L'Acadeiens)
                        A large number of them settled up the St Lawrence Valley. France still has 2
                        colonial islands at the mouth of the ST Lawrence between Nova Scotia and
                        Newfoundland called St. Pierre et Micalone.

                        But I digress. At the time of the conflict between Edward the First and the
                        Cromyin, (Cummings) John Baloil (Braveheart time) Ships were chartered from
                        the King of Norway to insure the English did not interrupt Scottish trade
                        ships. Ed I was really mad when Scotland and France signed the Auld Alliance each
                        swearing to attack England if she attacked the other. One portion of the
                        treaty was that Scots and French were entitled to each others citizenship. After
                        1707 it was common for Jacbites to take commissions in the army of the King
                        of France. My brother got the Latin, Greek and English, being the eldest and
                        would be in charge when we grew up. He would do a stint in the RAF then

                        A fact the Governments of Canada, Quebec, the UK and France does not enjoy
                        sharing is that when the surrender of the French Colonial Forces in Canada was
                        done on the plains of Abraham in Quebec. The French General, MS. de Montcalm
                        who had praised the conduct and outstanding bravery of the 42nd, (Black
                        Watch) at the battle of Ft. Ticonderoga, (North New York) was killed in Quebec, as
                        was General Wolfe of his Britannic Majesty's forces. Lt. Wolfe at Culloden
                        April 16,1746. The surrender was signed by 2 Scots. You will note as was
                        custom between Scots and French, who, had their most choragus troops not been
                        abandoned by their government, a lot of us may be sitting in New France.

                        Now how the names changed for both sides. After the wars there were a lot of
                        very attractive young Madamousels awaiting a fine young strapping Highland
                        soldier. When I grew up any Highlander worth his salt had a good bit of the
                        French because of the smuggling. A great number in Canada, Main, Vermont,
                        etc., were given land grants and they married and lived on their grants. Macs
                        who spoke no Angles, puit les Francaise que parle pas le French because their
                        granny or what ever married a Frenchman.

                        The same thing happened where ever we went. We breed like bloody midgies.

                        For years a Paris, and the low countries were a great hang out for Scots,
                        especially the Highlanders who the French loved and the King of France ALWAYS
                        had Highland troops ( Sans Pantallon) as body guards. Scottish soldiers
                        fought with Jean D'arc . Our politics and sports were/are pretty much the same. We
                        only support 2 teams Scotland and who ever is playing against England. A lot
                        of Scottish names were changed to French, much like the sailors from the
                        Spanish Armada and the French ships were Scottishsized.

                        I must confess to being led astray by the odd French lassie masel. C'est la
                        vie daddyo
                        Dave


                        In a message dated 3/18/2009 11:56:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                        kelley.v@... writes:

                        A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An
                        awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for
                        friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to
                        mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
                        French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have a
                        French background. Ken



                        **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
                        less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Quinn
                        Karen There are two types of DNA test - Y-DNA tests which maps the DNA on the Y-chromosome - and Mitochondrial DNA, which does the DNA in the mitochondrial
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 19, 2009
                          Karen

                          There are two types of DNA test - Y-DNA tests which maps the DNA on the Y-chromosome - and Mitochondrial DNA, which does the DNA in the mitochondrial part of the cell. Y-DNA is only available for men and gives you the DNA profile of your paternal line i.e. your father's father's father's father's ....father. Mitochondrial DNA profiling can be done for both men and women and gives the maternal line i.e. you mother's mother's mother's mother's .... mother.
                          Of course a woman can get her paternal line by having the profile done of her father himself or a brother or a male cousin on her father's side.

                          Finding a relative via DNA is very difficult. Take the Y-DNA paternal line. Even if you have an exact match with someone on 37 markers (i.e 37 positions in the DNA) you have at most a 50% chance of being related to the person in less that 4 generations, i.e. about the last 120 years. And there is a considerable chance you are not related at all in genealogically useful time, i.e. you will certainly be related but the common ancestor may be thousands of years ago. If you have say 36 of the 37 matching it is even further back, and so on. If you only have say 25 markers analysed (which is cheaper) it means you have a 50% chance of having a common ancestor less than 300 years ago. (These figures may not be exactly right but they are roughly correct). I am not sure what the relevant figures for the mito-DNA are. The female profile seems to work a bit differently.

                          The probability of you having a recent common ancestor depends greatly on having the same surname. This makes it very hard to find a match on a DNA database if you are a woman because the surnames change every generation so if you find a close match with someone it will be hard to find a common ancestor with a name you recognise (though not impossible).

                          Hope this isn't too much information but there is a bit of hype around this DNA testing. It is really hard to find a relative this way. HOWEVER you can find which female clan you come from and where the original clan mother came from. There are only 7 women that the whole of Europe (and thus most Americans) are descended from. The Bryan Sykes book "The Seven Daughters of Eve" is very interesting on all this and about DNA in general. And it is not complicated. Similarly you can find out which "haplogroup" your males side is in and where they came from. Often though you might find you are just in a big group with no mutations and thus related to nearly everyone in Europe. You could be lucky and be in a more specialised group (as I was - called R1B1C7 and from a very specific part of Ireland).

                          David Quinn

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: KS
                          To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:21 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: Looking for DNA indexes


                          Can females get DNA tests?
                          Thank you,
                          Karen Walters
                          Clan Stuart
                          Remember: Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.

                          ________________________________
                          From: jdm76116 <jdm76116@...>
                          To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02:34 PM
                          Subject: [scots-origins] Re: Looking for DNA indexes

                          Dennis,

                          Have you checked out the International Society of Genetic Genealogy site
                          at: [ ISOGG 2009 Y-DNA Haplogroup R ]

                          jdm76116
                          --- In scots-origins@ yahoogroups. com, Dennis <oldphardt@. ..> wrote:
                          >
                          > My question to the group is: "Are there any Scotland based DNA data
                          bases?" My family tree research hit a dead end in 1650 Canada. Records
                          showing where my oldest ancestor came from or who his parents are is
                          either destroyed or never existed. I now have the results of a 'Y'
                          chromosome DNA test (yes, I passed the test) which shows close matches
                          primarily living in Scotland. My family name is french but there is
                          virtually no matching DNA in France - so it is very unlikely that I am
                          actually of french origin. At this point I am guessing that my family
                          origin is actually Scotish or perhaps from Yorkshire area of England.
                          >
                          > Any help in the DNA direction would be helpful. I have access to the
                          "Family Tree DNA" site in US but nothing in UK.
                          >
                          > Dennis LeBlanc
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • a2fister2000
                          ... As a student and former teacher of history I have to correct you on this point. In 1066 William the Conq took England not the French. William was the Duke
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 20, 2009
                            --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, "William K. Kelley" <kelley.v@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to mention a few.

                            As a student and former teacher of history I have to correct you on this point. In 1066 William the Conq took England not the French. William was the Duke of Normandy and of Scandinavian decent. Normandy was an independent Duchy granted to the Vikings in order to stop them from harassing the Franks (French). Many French accompanied William on this adventure and as French was the diplomatic language at this time in history many who followed William carried Frankish names.

                            William I (born about 1027 or 1028), better known as William the Conqueror (French: Guillaume le Conquérant), was Duke of Normandy from 1035 and King of England from later 1066 to his death. William is sometimes also referred to as "William II" in relation to his position as the second Duke of Normandy of that name. In particular, before his conquest of England, he was known as "William the Bastard" (French: Guillaume le Bâtard) because of the illegitimacy of his birth.

                            To press his claim to the English crown, William invaded England in 1066, leading an army of Normans, Bretons, Flemings, and Frenchmen to victory over the English forces of King Harold Godwinson (who died in the conflict) at the Battle of Hastings, and suppressed subsequent English revolts in what has become known as the Norman Conquest.

                            Against the wishes of Pope Leo IX, William married Matilda of Flanders in 1053 in the chapel at Eu, Normandy (Seine-Maritime). At the time, William was about 24 years old and Matilda was 22. William is said to have been a faithful and loving husband, and their marriage produced four sons and six daughters. In repentance for what was a consanguine marriage (they were distant cousins), William donated St-Stephen's church (l'Abbaye-aux-Hommes) and Matilda donated Sainte-Trinité church (Abbaye aux Dames).

                            Upon the death of the childless Edward the Confessor, the English throne was fiercely disputed by three claimants -- William, Harold Godwinson, the powerful Earl of Wessex, and the Viking King Harald III of Norway, known as Harald Hardraada. William had a tenuous blood claim, through his great aunt Emma (wife of Ethelred and mother of Edward). William also contended that Edward, who had spent much of his life in exile in Normandy during the Danish occupation of England, had promised William the throne when William visited Edward in London in 1052. Finally, William claimed that Harold had pledged allegiance to him in 1064. William had rescued the shipwrecked Harold from the count of Ponthieu, and together they had defeated Conan II, Count of Brittany. On that occasion, William knighted Harold. He also deceived Harold by having him swear loyalty to William over the concealed bones of a saint.[6]

                            In January 1066, however, in accordance with Edward's last will and by vote of the Witenagemot, Harold Godwinson was crowned King by Archbishop Aldred.

                            William submitted his claim to the English throne to Pope Alexander II, who sent him a consecrated banner in support. Then, William organized a council of war at Lillebonne and openly began assembling an army in Normandy. Offering promises of English lands and titles, he amassed at Saint-Valery-sur-Somme a considerable invasion force of 600 ships and 7,000 men, consisting of Normans, Bretons, French mercenaries, and numerous foreign knights. In England, Harold assembled a large army on the south coast and a fleet of ships to guard the English Channel.

                            Andy
                          • Trena
                            ... From: William K. Kelley Date: 3/18/2009 11:53:56 AM To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scots-origins] French names A lot of people have forgotten
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                              -------Original Message-------

                              From: William K. Kelley
                              Date: 3/18/2009 11:53:56 AM
                              To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [scots-origins] French names

                              A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066.
                              ***snipped***

                              Who are the people you think have forgotten the Norman Invasion of 1066?

                              Toni ~ Ontario
                            • Trena
                              ... From: ScotHeritage@aol.com To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names ...
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: ScotHeritage@...
                                To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:43 AM
                                Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names

                                > Now here is one for the Scots who laugh at the Canooks
                                **snipped**

                                Please, if you are going to use this word, which had been originally slang
                                directed at Frenchmen in Canada [although it is now used as a nick-name for
                                all Canadians], at least least learn to spell it properly.

                                > for saying Edin-burg
                                **snipped**

                                I've never had a Scot laugh on how I say Auld Reekie's name. Mind, my Mum
                                was born and raised in Scotland. I am Canadian born and raised by she and
                                my Canadian father. I did live in Scotland and our son was born there. I
                                would say many Canadians do know how to pronounce Edinburgh, most especially
                                those who are over 50y. You see, those of us who are past that age, were
                                taught under the British educational system and learned phonics and the
                                like, such as the 'gh' sound at the end of words. We also learned how to
                                pronounce 'Ll', which one finds in the Welsh language.

                                Toni ~ Ontario
                              • PATCSNEE@aol.com
                                Ah, yes! 1066 and All That, I remember it well. I think we should also remember our Irish relatives in this context.?After the ?Normans sacked Waterford, under
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 27, 2009
                                  Ah, yes! 1066 and All That, I remember it well. I think we should also remember our Irish relatives in this context.?After the ?Normans sacked Waterford, under Richard du Clare (Strongbow) they went on to "colonise" Ireland. Thus all those great Irish names, such as Delaney, Devanny, De' ath, D'arcy etc would tend to be from the "French".

                                  While on the subject, many Scottish names, like, Lamont, Limond, Agnew (D'agnieu) are similarly derived from the same source.


                                  Pat (in a windy and wet, west coast seaside town in Scotland)








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                                • PATCSNEE@aol.com
                                  Ah, yes! 1066 and All That, I remember it well. I think we should also remember our Irish relatives in this context.?After the ?Normans sacked Waterford, under
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 27, 2009
                                    Ah, yes! 1066 and All That, I remember it well. I think we should also remember our Irish relatives in this context.?After the ?Normans sacked Waterford, under Richard du Clare (Strongbow) they went on to "colonise" Ireland. Thus all those great Irish names, such as Delaney, Devanny, De' ath, D'arcy etc would tend to be from the "French".

                                    While on the subject, many Scottish names, like, Lamont, Limond, Agnew (D'agnieu) are similarly derived from the same source.


                                    Pat (in a windy and wet, west coast seaside town in Scotland)








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                                  • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                    First the Normans were (Willie the Conk, AKA Bastard of Normandy) were Norse who had settled in what we call France today. Let us also remember that King
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 27, 2009
                                      First the Normans were (Willie the Conk, AKA Bastard of Normandy) were Norse
                                      who had settled in what we call France today. Let us also remember that King
                                      Harold, (the Saxon) and the Normans were related as were/are most European
                                      Nobility.

                                      Jump forward 200-300 years to the times of Edward I and John Baloil and the
                                      Cromyin (Cumming's) Kings. The Auld (old) Alliance between Scotland and France
                                      was signed. Because of this alliance Scots and French are able to take
                                      citizenship in either nation. The King of Norway was also paid to run a ship or
                                      two to keep the English in their place.

                                      Anglicizing names. Most, if not all the Highland names on this are
                                      Anglicized. For the Highlanders, (AKA Rebels), that headed to France for safety their
                                      names were Franco-sized. Frazer became Frasier and such.
                                      If one checks back to the revolt in Poland you will note the leader was Lec
                                      Wallensa (Wallace)

                                      Now for Ms. Minette. Seigman Minette is French while Seigman would seem to
                                      be more Austrian or German.

                                      Now it is easy for an older person like myself to sit here and write about
                                      only that which is polite and academic. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately,
                                      life is just not like that and the truth of the matter is that young people
                                      breed like flies.

                                      The issue of skin colour is not as important to us as it is in America. The
                                      first time I went/came to the USA back in about 1967 I dated a black lassie we
                                      broke up because of the threats on both sides. Seemed a bit stupid to me
                                      but,c'est la vie. (That's life.)

                                      You know that a lot of the colonies in Africa, the West Indies and Polynesia
                                      were French. A lot of New France in North America was French speaking. More
                                      or less New Brunswick in Canada to Upstate New York being the most important
                                      area. (Later the Acadians from New Brunswick would be deported to Louisiana,
                                      and many would return) Many a Scottish officer saved his bacon by declaring
                                      himself commissioned by the King of France. Many a black slave from America
                                      made it to the freedom of Canada/British North America. A large community in
                                      Nova Scotia, (New Scotland) was started by these poor folks.

                                      OK let's head to Bermuda, Jamaica, Barbados (one of the most beautiful
                                      Islands in the West Indies) It is always surprising to American tourists, that
                                      the slave labour used to build the Island was 80% white. In that 80% a vast
                                      number were Highland soldiers released under what is called "The King's Mercy"
                                      were sent in chains to be sold in the Americas and Indies. Look at the
                                      present names of Native Americans, especially in the north and they are distinctly
                                      Highland, the vast majority of Rastas in Jamaica have distinctly Highland
                                      names. (Highlands had/have clans the south had/have families)

                                      Our Highland culture is tribal the same as Native Americans, the majority
                                      Black Africans, It is much easier to *domesticate* together with people who
                                      share the same culture. I shan't say marry or have families because one of the
                                      greatest tortures of slavery was the tearing up of families. (sorry I just
                                      can't find the words to appropriately describe that act)

                                      Anyway you put the average male and female within a proximity of each other
                                      and sparks will eventually fly regardless of colour, religion, (the big one
                                      with us) or language. Wait long enough and looks no longer matter either, and
                                      remember our greatest export is Whisky.

                                      Perhaps take a look up in Eastern Canada where you get Scottish names on
                                      people who speak no English, and French names on people who speak no French, the
                                      same is true in Vermont, Main, and the other states in that area. If you ever
                                      go there take some time to stop and see Ft. Ticonderoga in NY where the most
                                      brutal battle in America took place between the French and the Black Watch.
                                      The only other battle comparable was one in your Civil war.

                                      _ScottishShorts's Channel_ (http://www.youtube.com/ScottishShorts) Go here
                                      and click Culloden and you will see the real spelling of the Gaelic names on
                                      the plaques where our Gallant soldiers stood their ground, clan by clan and
                                      the next time your told they ran for their lives you tell them that they went
                                      to Ruthvern Barracks to regroup.

                                      Hope this helps
                                      Dave
                                      As was said to the Highland Chiefs who cleared the land for nothing more
                                      valuable than money.

                                      An rud a bhois na do bhroin, cha bhi e na do thiomhnadh
                                      That which you have wasted will not be there for future generations



                                      In a message dated 3/26/2009 10:55:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                      ladyshe32@... writes:

                                      --- In _scots-origins@scots-originsco_
                                      (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com) , "William K. Kelley" <kelley.v@..k> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066. An
                                      awful lot of Frenchmen came to England, I have done a lot of research for
                                      friends and more than one French name has been anglo-zied. my wifes given name to
                                      mention a few.But then a lot of them kept the
                                      > French spelling. If you have a French name it is more that likely you have
                                      a French background. Ken
                                      >
                                      To whom this may concern:

                                      My name is Minette and it is a french name with orgins in the willimenia,
                                      virgin Mary, or meaning light. But I dont know if I have a french background.
                                      Because my maiden name is hoston. But I not sure of anything. I am black and
                                      just like you searching for the truth of my background.

                                      Minette L Siegman (Hoston)



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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                      Well Toni the people who forgot or never were taught about the Norman Conquest of 1066, except for those scholars who take a special interest in the
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 1, 2009
                                        Well Toni the people who forgot or never were taught about the Norman
                                        Conquest of 1066, except for those scholars who take a special interest in the
                                        subject.......
                                        That would be pretty much everyone from, The US of A, to the most southern
                                        tip of Argentina, add to that all nations that were never British Colonies.
                                        You and your's don't count because you are in what used to be Upper Canada the
                                        home of the Empire Loyalists, God Bless you all.

                                        Perhaps some schools in France or their former colonies may also refer to
                                        it. But I doubt the subject has any relevancy anywhere else on the globe. I left
                                        out the south pole because there are probably a few British scientists stuck
                                        there.

                                        While the old Rand MacNally had a whole load of pink bits, it also had lots
                                        of others also. (To Non Commonwealth readers, all the nations that either are
                                        or were colonies and are now either colonies, yes there are still a few, or
                                        members of the Commonwealth of Nations, (156 I think it is) are represented on
                                        our maps in pink.

                                        QUESTION: What colour is Hong Kong now?????
                                        Dave

                                        In a message dated 4/1/2009 9:42:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                        amheater@... writes:




                                        -------Original Message-------

                                        From: William K. Kelley
                                        Date: 3/18/2009 11:53:56 AM
                                        To: _scots-origins@scots-originsco_ (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com)
                                        Subject: [scots-origins] French names

                                        A lot of people have forgotten that France conquered England in 1066.
                                        ***snipped***

                                        Who are the people you think have forgotten the Norman Invasion of 1066?

                                        Toni ~ Ontario







                                        **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
                                        less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                        I apologize that I did not make a special paragraph for a Canadian/s with a parent from Edinburgh and that I included them with those people from other
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 1, 2009
                                          I apologize that I did not make a special paragraph for a Canadian/s with a
                                          parent from Edinburgh and that I included them with those people from other
                                          former colonies. I did not think anything I would say would be so important as
                                          to be so upsetting. I must confess I feel very important now and know what I
                                          say matters so much I shall have to be much more careful in what and how I
                                          say things. Thank you ever so much for giving my words and opinions so much
                                          thought and energy.

                                          Please understand that while you understand everything Scottish many readers
                                          on this list did not have a mother from Princess St. to instruct them and
                                          thus at times they may have a wee bit trouble with pronunciation. Perhaps, as
                                          unlikely as it is, you misread, but the point I was making was that since
                                          Edinburgh had been captured by the Angles (about 640 I think it was) and it was
                                          they who named it Edinburgh the burgh being a distinctly Anglo format, it was
                                          we, and not the tourists, who were not saying the name right.

                                          Trivia: The name for Edinburgh was Din Eidyn (Fortress on the rock) often
                                          bastardized to Dun Edin

                                          Translation:
                                          The term Canook was not given to the Canadien's Francaise or Franco Phones.
                                          You will note the correct term for those Canadian's who's mother tongue or
                                          "Launge maternal" which is of the other official language of that nation. The
                                          term "Frenchmen" is considered quite derogatory, or at least it was when I
                                          lived in Quebec.

                                          The term Canook was given, or started out with the Winnipeg Regiment in the
                                          1914 to 1918 (the first world war. Not sure if they had the Royal yet or not)
                                          by the Highlanders they were billeted with in Edinburgh. The Gaelic for
                                          Canada is Chanada thus the "C" becomes the hard C or K sound. and thus was
                                          adopted by the people of Edinburgh, Scotland then the world and later supported
                                          by the people of France. French, French as it were, after the battles in
                                          such places as Passion dale and Vimmy Ridge, (Your *O.T.C. at the *R.M.C. in
                                          Kingston, Ontario is a remembrance of that and other such battles). In which the
                                          Canadian Forces showed extreme valour and courage.
                                          Please note I mean no disrespect to any other Canadian Regiments, especially
                                          the heroic Royal 22nd, in mentioning the Winnipeg folks.

                                          Trivia: 3 VC's were awarded in one day to 3 lads from the same Winnipeg
                                          Street in WW 2.

                                          Trivia Royal Vingt-deuxième Régiment (The Royal Twenty Second Regiment)
                                          are or were the only regiment in the Empire or Commonwealth to give and receive
                                          orders in French. Their regimental march is Vive La Canadien. They were
                                          amongst the first regiments off the boats on D Day

                                          Another bit trivia: Winnie was the great bear which served as a mascot for
                                          the Winnipeg Regiment and was housed at the Edinburgh Zoo during those years.
                                          That is where a young child called Christopher Robin saw him and his father
                                          wrote several books about him.

                                          As for never having a Scot laugh at anything you said, I doubt anyone would
                                          question the truth in that remark. However, the Internet is world wide. That
                                          means some replies are for those beyond the borders of Lake Ontario, so such
                                          terms known by every school child in Ontario are strange, some may go as far
                                          as to say foreign to the ears of these people. For example O.T.C. Officers
                                          Training Corps, and R.M.C. Royal Military College, You see many of the readers
                                          of this list have nothing royal in their nations at all. Many went to war to
                                          assure they never would. Thus when we of the Commonwealth put an R., or R.H
                                          etc., in front of things thus they have no reference point to go from. They
                                          know not the glory of HP sauce and must settloe for A1 or such, vinegar on
                                          chips/fries, The Speech From The Throne at Christmas, if I may be so crass; to
                                          them, said speech is Grandpa yelling for more paper after the turkey and jelly
                                          prunes have worked their magic. So while you sit and read this all alone, it
                                          is only justified that I beg tolerance to be able to explain to the others
                                          who lack your knowledge, intellect, sense of humor and sophistication the
                                          elements of our social structure. Shocking as it is to us, many of these
                                          foreigners do not demand the products they buy have the Royal Warrant.

                                          I am sorry for any upset my spelling caused you or yours, I am very
                                          dyslexic, in several languages, and at times I do confess to being a real party
                                          animal and not checking my spelling. I shall try and be more conservative in my
                                          ways in the future.

                                          May I try and make up for my many transgressions with a wee Gaelic lesson so
                                          you may show your disapproval as we mere Teuchters in the north do.

                                          The Gaelic phrase which _translates _ (http://www.scotland.com/forums/)
                                          as one every Scot knows even some of those in Edinburgh.
                                          "kiss my arse" is Pog mo thon (pronounced: Poke mow hown)

                                          Another of my favorites, especially to those uppity foreign types with no
                                          sense of humor. We used this a lot while shaking our heids yes and smiling at
                                          the government people from our Capital

                                          "Go n-ithe an cat thu, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat." (pronounced go
                                          ni-he an caht oo ish go ni-he an jyaval an cat) It means may the cat eat you, and
                                          may the devil eat the cat.

                                          Dave
                                          PS I hope that makes up a little for all the problems I caused you. OH Heids
                                          is an on purpose spelling error this spell check does not have Scots or
                                          Scottish or the Gaelic and as you can see not the French either.



                                          In a message dated 4/1/2009 9:43:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                          amheater@... writes:



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: _ScotHeritage@ScotHer_ (mailto:ScotHeritage@...)
                                          To: _scots-origins@scots-originsco_ (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com)
                                          Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:43 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names

                                          > Now here is one for the Scots who laugh at the Canooks
                                          **snipped**

                                          Please, if you are going to use this word, which had been originally slang
                                          directed at Frenchmen in Canada [although it is now used as a nick-name for
                                          all Canadians], at least least learn to spell it properly.

                                          > for saying Edin-burg
                                          **snipped**

                                          I've never had a Scot laugh on how I say Auld Reekie's name. Mind, my Mum
                                          was born and raised in Scotland. I am Canadian born and raised by she and
                                          my Canadian father. I did live in Scotland and our son was born there. I
                                          would say many Canadians do know how to pronounce Edinburgh, most especially
                                          those who are over 50y. You see, those of us who are past that age, were
                                          taught under the British educational system and learned phonics and the
                                          like, such as the 'gh' sound at the end of words. We also learned how to
                                          pronounce 'Ll', which one finds in the Welsh language.

                                          Toni ~ Ontario







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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Heather
                                          dave, i am from ontario. let me tell you something...everyday someone makes me laugh, and i declare them to be my hero. you are my hero today! i loved your
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 2, 2009
                                            dave,

                                            i am from ontario.

                                            let me tell you something...everyday someone makes me laugh, and i declare them to be my hero. you are my hero today! i loved your insightful, well-researched, comical and, in choice spots, sarcastically witty post! and thank you for the phonetics that accompanied your gaelic phrases; i will use them well.

                                            we ALL need to remember that the purpose of this group is to LEARN, and to CONNECT with those who share our roots. we can have fun and enjoy our differences, but we all need to try and grow a thicker skin when what is gentle teasing occurs.

                                            here we are, scottish descendants, seeking our roots. my (great) aunts and uncles, most of whom were born here (1910-20), were often guilty of the typical fun-loving, yet mischievous, teasing that came straight from the depressed bridgeton area of glasgow at the turn of the century. they were merciless! but never mean spirited. our visits with with the large extended family in hamilton, ontario, were looked forward to more than visits with the other family branches. it was in that tiny living room (a glorified hallway, frankly), that i learned an important lesson...don't hand it out if you can't take it yourself.

                                            so, the next time a cheeky scotsman teases, hand it back with equal wit, both humourous and clever, and he will respect you all the more for it!

                                            besides, any country who gave us the bay city rollers can't be ALL bad, can they?

                                            heather




                                            --- In scots-origins@yahoogroups.com, ScotHeritage@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I apologize that I did not make a special paragraph for a Canadian/s with a
                                            > parent from Edinburgh and that I included them with those people from other
                                            > former colonies. I did not think anything I would say would be so important as
                                            > to be so upsetting. I must confess I feel very important now and know what I
                                            > say matters so much I shall have to be much more careful in what and how I
                                            > say things. Thank you ever so much for giving my words and opinions so much
                                            > thought and energy.
                                            >
                                            > Please understand that while you understand everything Scottish many readers
                                            > on this list did not have a mother from Princess St. to instruct them and
                                            > thus at times they may have a wee bit trouble with pronunciation. Perhaps, as
                                            > unlikely as it is, you misread, but the point I was making was that since
                                            > Edinburgh had been captured by the Angles (about 640 I think it was) and it was
                                            > they who named it Edinburgh the burgh being a distinctly Anglo format, it was
                                            > we, and not the tourists, who were not saying the name right.
                                            >
                                            > Trivia: The name for Edinburgh was Din Eidyn (Fortress on the rock) often
                                            > bastardized to Dun Edin
                                            >
                                            > Translation:
                                            > The term Canook was not given to the Canadien's Francaise or Franco Phones.
                                            > You will note the correct term for those Canadian's who's mother tongue or
                                            > "Launge maternal" which is of the other official language of that nation. The
                                            > term "Frenchmen" is considered quite derogatory, or at least it was when I
                                            > lived in Quebec.
                                            >
                                            > The term Canook was given, or started out with the Winnipeg Regiment in the
                                            > 1914 to 1918 (the first world war. Not sure if they had the Royal yet or not)
                                            > by the Highlanders they were billeted with in Edinburgh. The Gaelic for
                                            > Canada is Chanada thus the "C" becomes the hard C or K sound. and thus was
                                            > adopted by the people of Edinburgh, Scotland then the world and later supported
                                            > by the people of France. French, French as it were, after the battles in
                                            > such places as Passion dale and Vimmy Ridge, (Your *O.T.C. at the *R.M.C. in
                                            > Kingston, Ontario is a remembrance of that and other such battles). In which the
                                            > Canadian Forces showed extreme valour and courage.
                                            > Please note I mean no disrespect to any other Canadian Regiments, especially
                                            > the heroic Royal 22nd, in mentioning the Winnipeg folks.
                                            >
                                            > Trivia: 3 VC's were awarded in one day to 3 lads from the same Winnipeg
                                            > Street in WW 2.
                                            >
                                            > Trivia Royal Vingt-deuxième Régiment (The Royal Twenty Second Regiment)
                                            > are or were the only regiment in the Empire or Commonwealth to give and receive
                                            > orders in French. Their regimental march is Vive La Canadien. They were
                                            > amongst the first regiments off the boats on D Day
                                            >
                                            > Another bit trivia: Winnie was the great bear which served as a mascot for
                                            > the Winnipeg Regiment and was housed at the Edinburgh Zoo during those years.
                                            > That is where a young child called Christopher Robin saw him and his father
                                            > wrote several books about him.
                                            >
                                            > As for never having a Scot laugh at anything you said, I doubt anyone would
                                            > question the truth in that remark. However, the Internet is world wide. That
                                            > means some replies are for those beyond the borders of Lake Ontario, so such
                                            > terms known by every school child in Ontario are strange, some may go as far
                                            > as to say foreign to the ears of these people. For example O.T.C. Officers
                                            > Training Corps, and R.M.C. Royal Military College, You see many of the readers
                                            > of this list have nothing royal in their nations at all. Many went to war to
                                            > assure they never would. Thus when we of the Commonwealth put an R., or R.H
                                            > etc., in front of things thus they have no reference point to go from. They
                                            > know not the glory of HP sauce and must settloe for A1 or such, vinegar on
                                            > chips/fries, The Speech From The Throne at Christmas, if I may be so crass; to
                                            > them, said speech is Grandpa yelling for more paper after the turkey and jelly
                                            > prunes have worked their magic. So while you sit and read this all alone, it
                                            > is only justified that I beg tolerance to be able to explain to the others
                                            > who lack your knowledge, intellect, sense of humor and sophistication the
                                            > elements of our social structure. Shocking as it is to us, many of these
                                            > foreigners do not demand the products they buy have the Royal Warrant.
                                            >
                                            > I am sorry for any upset my spelling caused you or yours, I am very
                                            > dyslexic, in several languages, and at times I do confess to being a real party
                                            > animal and not checking my spelling. I shall try and be more conservative in my
                                            > ways in the future.
                                            >
                                            > May I try and make up for my many transgressions with a wee Gaelic lesson so
                                            > you may show your disapproval as we mere Teuchters in the north do.
                                            >
                                            > The Gaelic phrase which _translates _ (http://www.scotland.com/forums/)
                                            > as one every Scot knows even some of those in Edinburgh.
                                            > "kiss my arse" is Pog mo thon (pronounced: Poke mow hown)
                                            >
                                            > Another of my favorites, especially to those uppity foreign types with no
                                            > sense of humor. We used this a lot while shaking our heids yes and smiling at
                                            > the government people from our Capital
                                            >
                                            > "Go n-ithe an cat thu, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat." (pronounced go
                                            > ni-he an caht oo ish go ni-he an jyaval an cat) It means may the cat eat you, and
                                            > may the devil eat the cat.
                                            >
                                            > Dave
                                            > PS I hope that makes up a little for all the problems I caused you. OH Heids
                                            > is an on purpose spelling error this spell check does not have Scots or
                                            > Scottish or the Gaelic and as you can see not the French either.
                                          • Trena
                                            ... From: ScotHeritage@aol.com To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names I apologize
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Apr 2, 2009
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: ScotHeritage@...
                                              To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:19 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names

                                              I apologize that I did not make a special paragraph for a Canadian/s with a
                                              parent from Edinburgh
                                              ***
                                              My mother is from Glasgow, although she considers Comrie/St Fillans home as
                                              she spent most of first 18y in Perthshire.



                                              The term Canook was given, or started out with the Winnipeg Regiment in the
                                              1914 to 1918 (the first world war. Not sure if they had the Royal yet or
                                              not)
                                              by the Highlanders they were billeted with in Edinburgh.
                                              ***snipped***

                                              The term 'Canuck' was used long before WWl ... something like 200+ years
                                              before!



                                              French, French as it were, after the battles in
                                              such places as Passion dale and Vimmy Ridge, (Your *O.T.C. at the *R.M.C. in
                                              Kingston, Ontario is a remembrance of that and other such battles).
                                              ***snipped***

                                              Not only the streets/avenues with the grounds of RMC, but also many of the
                                              streets in the Married Quarters (Fort Henry Heights).
                                              My paternal grand-uncles (brothers) were survivors of Passendale, Mons, the
                                              Somme, and Vimy Ridge. One of them was also RSM of RMC residing in the
                                              stone house located by the Memorial Arch, which had been RMC's main entrance
                                              originally. He went on to be Commandant of Brockville and somewhat of a
                                              ledgend in the RCRs. John 'Jake' WYATT in case there are any RCR historians
                                              in the group.



                                              In which the
                                              Canadian Forces showed extreme valour and courage.
                                              Please note I mean no disrespect to any other Canadian Regiments, especially
                                              the heroic Royal 22nd, in mentioning the Winnipeg folks.
                                              ***snipped***

                                              We have quite a few regiments which have distinguished themselves in battle
                                              since Confederation, as has the RCN, RCNVR and RCAF.
                                              My own father was PPCLI-2 Korea (D Company). They have always shown
                                              themselves to be a top notch group and have twice earned the Presidential
                                              Citation. My father was also RCNVR from August 1939 to September 1945, DEs,
                                              mainly on the North Atlantic. Two Canadian uncles were the same, although
                                              one was corvettes. The one on DEs went down with his ship (HMCS Ottawa) in
                                              October 1942.

                                              Our son was RCNVR, the RCAF reg force, then RC Sigs. He served 3 tours:
                                              Rwanda 1994, Bosnia 1998 and Kosovar 1999. Had he not been electrocuted, he
                                              would have more than likely served at least twice (perhaps more) in
                                              Afghanistan by now. Instead, he had to take a medical discharge. At least
                                              he is alive. [Mum former WRNS; husband fromer HMS/m; me former WRCNS)

                                              Trivia: 3 VC's were awarded in one day to 3 lads from the same Winnipeg
                                              Street in WW 2.

                                              Valour Road. I think you will find they were WWl. Population of Canada in
                                              1914 was approx. 8 million. 600,000 served, with just over 60,000 killed /
                                              missing forever more.

                                              The most decorated Canadian from WWll and Korean War was actually the same
                                              man. He too was from Manitoba, with Winnipeg being given as his home town.
                                              His name was Thomas 'Tommy' PRINCE, and he was from a Reserve north of
                                              Winnipeg. SO .. not only was he a Canadian hero, he was a true Canadian.

                                              Mr. PRINCE was a member of the Devil's Brigade during WWll and he was
                                              PPCLI-2 in Korea. I know at one point he was in D(og) Company and that is
                                              how my father came to know him personally. My sibs and I were brought up to
                                              know just exactly who he was and that he fought for our freedoms, some of
                                              which he and his family did not enjoy back in Canada.

                                              The Devil's Brigade was actually an idea put forth by a Canadian and contary
                                              to the movie, it had more than one 'token' Canadian within the group. The
                                              true story is quite a bit different to what the movie told. Somewhat
                                              similar tale with the Dam Busters. Sadly the efforts put forth by Canada,
                                              especially during wartime, are very often overlooked or pushed aside as
                                              nothing. We are quite use being given no credit by the rest of the world,
                                              even 'Mum' ... excepting The Netherlands. We quietly plod on, often doing
                                              far more than is required or asked for.

                                              We are the Peacekeeper Nation and darn proud of it.

                                              Toni
                                            • Alistair Cameron
                                              ... One of the finest attributes of the Scots is their ability to DISAGREE WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE. Thanks Heather for sharing my orbit! Cheers, ALISTAIR M.
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Apr 6, 2009
                                                Heather wrote here:

                                                > so, the next time a cheeky scotsman teases, hand it back with equal wit, both humourous and clever, and he will respect you all the more for it!


                                                One of the finest attributes of the Scots is their ability
                                                to DISAGREE WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE.


                                                Thanks Heather for sharing my orbit!



                                                Cheers,

                                                ALISTAIR M. CAMERON

                                                Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?

                                                When I contemplate the moon my head aches (Galileo)

                                                Many a beautiful hypothesis is destroyed by an ugly truth
                                                (Galileo)
                                              • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                                Now don t you be egging me on you, I can get in enough trouble on ma own. I don t think a lot of people understand the impact Scotland had on Canada and
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Apr 7, 2009
                                                  Now don't you be egging me on you, I can get in enough trouble on ma own.

                                                  I don't think a lot of people understand the impact Scotland had on Canada
                                                  and Australia for that matter America also. Your steel plant, DOSCO, I
                                                  believe it is employed almost as many Weegies, (Galswegans) as the foundries in
                                                  Glasgow did for a while. I was in a restaurant on King St. In Hamilton one
                                                  Saturday and it could of been Bucannan St. in Glasgow listening to the people.
                                                  Mind you I never met a weegie I didna like nor one who would not give a song, no
                                                  matter how bad their voice. Then again I don't do bad considering I only have
                                                  one note to use.

                                                  Our heritage is so much more than the births and deaths, its the why's and
                                                  hows. Why does our belly tighten at the sound of the pipes? Why do we only want
                                                  our own tartan when it would be so much more efficient, practical, and
                                                  economical to just weave one pattern, a Scottish Tartan for everyone. Why after
                                                  300 plus years was it important for Dr. Ewing to open our own parliament? Why
                                                  do I want something as silly as a Scottish Pass Port when a British one works
                                                  just as well? Why do we, at least we of the Highlands still sing about and
                                                  tell stories about our Bonnie wee Prince, in which he is the hero? Why the HELL
                                                  is it I can stand on the beach of a tropical pacific paradise and miss the
                                                  feeling of the cold damp winds blowing through my bones like it does at home?

                                                  Why after so much time do you and others care about your roots? Why would a
                                                  lady be so angry with me unless her heritage meant a great deal to her.
                                                  Especially a lady from Canada, which is probably if not the most free and most
                                                  tolerant nation in the world, certainly one of the top 3.

                                                  Why does anyone give a hoot for the Jacobites? I was raised in a Scottish
                                                  Nationalist family, I remember when the students were chased by the police and
                                                  would come to s to hide out with us. I am not Catholic, neither was anyone i
                                                  the village or the villages around us. I think the closest were on Skye or
                                                  perhaps Harris. We were all Free Church Of Scotland. That meant that by 9 years
                                                  old we had stopped believing in any religion. So much for the Jacobites will
                                                  all be Left Footers. hahaha
                                                  Dave

                                                  In a message dated 4/6/2009 9:32:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                                  heather@... writes:




                                                  dave,

                                                  i am from ontario.

                                                  let me tell you something...let me tell you something...<WBR>everyday
                                                  someone makes me laugh, and i declare them to be my hero. you are my hero today! i
                                                  loved your insightful, well-researched, comical and, in choice spots,
                                                  sarcastically witty post! and thank you for the phonetics that accompanied your gael

                                                  we ALL need to remember that the purpose of this group is to LEARN, and to
                                                  CONNECT with those who share our roots. we can have fun and enjoy our
                                                  differences, but we all need to try and grow a thicker skin when what is gentle
                                                  teasing occurs.

                                                  here we are, scottish descendants, seeking our roots. my (great) aunts and
                                                  uncles, most of whom were born here (1910-20), were often guilty of the
                                                  typical fun-loving, yet mischievous, teasing that came straight from the depressed
                                                  bridgeton area of glasgow at the turn of the century. they were merciless!
                                                  but never mean spirited. our visits with with the large extended family in
                                                  hamilton, ontario, were looked forward to more than visits with the other family
                                                  branches. it was in that tiny living room (a glorified hallway, frankly),
                                                  that i learned an important lesson...don'here we are, scottish descendants,
                                                  seeki

                                                  so, the next time a cheeky scotsman teases, hand it back with equal wit,
                                                  both humourous and clever, and he will respect you all the more for it!

                                                  besides, any country who gave us the bay city rollers can't be ALL bad, can
                                                  they?

                                                  heather







                                                  **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
                                                  less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                                  Very proud you should be. Had it not been for the efforts of the many commonwealth forces a lot of us would be answering these emails in German. Had it not
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 7, 2009
                                                    Very proud you should be. Had it not been for the efforts of the many
                                                    commonwealth forces a lot of us would be answering these emails in German. Had it
                                                    not been for Lester B. Pierson there may be no peace keeping force today.
                                                    (Canadian Prime Minister and Nobel Peace Prize winner)

                                                    Anyway this is 3 or 4 emails out of the context of the thread, so I
                                                    apologies. You are entirely correct and right about everything. I am off to the
                                                    MacPenalty box then Eh.
                                                    Dave

                                                    In a message dated 4/6/2009 9:33:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                                    amheater@... writes:




                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: _ScotHeritage@ScotHer_ (mailto:ScotHeritage@...)
                                                    To: _scots-origins@scots-originsco_ (mailto:scots-origins@yahoogroups.com)
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:19 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [scots-origins] French names

                                                    I apologize that I did not make a special paragraph for a Canadian/s with a
                                                    parent from Edinburgh
                                                    ***
                                                    My mother is from Glasgow, although she considers Comrie/St Fillans home as
                                                    she spent most of first 18y in Perthshire.

                                                    The term Canook was given, or started out with the Winnipeg Regiment in the
                                                    1914 to 1918 (the first world war. Not sure if they had the Royal yet or
                                                    not)
                                                    by the Highlanders they were billeted with in Edinburgh.
                                                    ***snipped***

                                                    The term 'Canuck' was used long before WWl ... something like 200+ years
                                                    before!

                                                    French, French as it were, after the battles in
                                                    such places as Passion dale and Vimmy Ridge, (Your *O.T.C. at the *R.M.C. in
                                                    Kingston, Ontario is a remembrance of that and other such battles).
                                                    ***snipped***

                                                    Not only the streets/avenues with the grounds of RMC, but also many of the
                                                    streets in the Married Quarters (Fort Henry Heights).
                                                    My paternal grand-uncles (brothers) were survivors of Passendale, Mons, the
                                                    Somme, and Vimy Ridge. One of them was also RSM of RMC residing in the
                                                    stone house located by the Memorial Arch, which had been RMC's main entrance

                                                    originally. He went on to be Commandant of Brockville and somewhat of a
                                                    ledgend in the RCRs. John 'Jake' WYATT in case there are any RCR historians
                                                    in the group.

                                                    In which the
                                                    Canadian Forces showed extreme valour and courage.
                                                    Please note I mean no disrespect to any other Canadian Regiments, especially
                                                    the heroic Royal 22nd, in mentioning the Winnipeg folks.
                                                    ***snipped***

                                                    We have quite a few regiments which have distinguished themselves in battle
                                                    since Confederation, as has the RCN, RCNVR and RCAF.
                                                    My own father was PPCLI-2 Korea (D Company). They have always shown
                                                    themselves to be a top notch group and have twice earned the Presidential
                                                    Citation. My father was also RCNVR from August 1939 to September 1945, DEs,
                                                    mainly on the North Atlantic. Two Canadian uncles were the same, although
                                                    one was corvettes. The one on DEs went down with his ship (HMCS Ottawa) in
                                                    October 1942.

                                                    Our son was RCNVR, the RCAF reg force, then RC Sigs. He served 3 tours:
                                                    Rwanda 1994, Bosnia 1998 and Kosovar 1999. Had he not been electrocuted, he
                                                    would have more than likely served at least twice (perhaps more) in
                                                    Afghanistan by now. Instead, he had to take a medical discharge. At least
                                                    he is alive. [Mum former WRNS; husband fromer HMS/m; me former WRCNS)

                                                    Trivia: 3 VC's were awarded in one day to 3 lads from the same Winnipeg
                                                    Street in WW 2.

                                                    Valour Road. I think you will find they were WWl. Population of Canada in
                                                    1914 was approx. 8 million. 600,000 served, with just over 60,000 killed /
                                                    missing forever more.

                                                    The most decorated Canadian from WWll and Korean War was actually the same
                                                    man. He too was from Manitoba, with Winnipeg being given as his home town.
                                                    His name was Thomas 'Tommy' PRINCE, and he was from a Reserve north of
                                                    Winnipeg. SO .. not only was he a Canadian hero, he was a true Canadian.

                                                    Mr. PRINCE was a member of the Devil's Brigade during WWll and he was
                                                    PPCLI-2 in Korea. I know at one point he was in D(og) Company and that is
                                                    how my father came to know him personally. My sibs and I were brought up to
                                                    know just exactly who he was and that he fought for our freedoms, some of
                                                    which he and his family did not enjoy back in Canada.

                                                    The Devil's Brigade was actually an idea put forth by a Canadian and contary
                                                    to the movie, it had more than one 'token' Canadian within the group. The
                                                    true story is quite a bit different to what the movie told. Somewhat
                                                    similar tale with the Dam Busters. Sadly the efforts put forth by Canada,
                                                    especially during wartime, are very often overlooked or pushed aside as
                                                    nothing. We are quite use being given no credit by the rest of the world,
                                                    even 'Mum' ... excepting The Netherlands. We quietly plod on, often doing
                                                    far more than is required or asked for.

                                                    We are the Peacekeeper Nation and darn proud of it.

                                                    Toni






                                                    **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
                                                    less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                                                    In a message dated 4/14/2009 11:35:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, acameron@hinet.net.au writes: Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn? Who is that. Sorry I was
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
                                                      In a message dated 4/14/2009 11:35:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                                      acameron@... writes:

                                                      Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?


                                                      Who is that. Sorry I was too busy outside, saying to the wifie I hope we'll
                                                      meet again, not sure where, not sure when and go watching the Blue Birds
                                                      over the white cliffs of Dover,

                                                      Was she not Gracie Fields Daughter? They used to go round washing windows
                                                      with George Formby. They kind of got put aside by the others who just
                                                      carried on. Who's a clever boy then!!!!
                                                      Dave
                                                      **************Great deals on Dell’s most popular laptops – Starting at
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