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Re: [scots-origins] Tod

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  • Ken Mathieson
    Hi Gail et al, Tod(d) is a common surname in Scotland. In the Lowland Scots language, tod means a fox, and by extension it can be used to describe a sly
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 4, 2005
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      Hi Gail et al,

      Tod(d) is a common surname in Scotland. In the Lowland Scots language, tod
      means a fox, and by extension it can be used to describe a sly untrustworthy
      person. Tod in German means death, and I don't recall ever seeing it as
      surname there, although Todt, which may well derive from an earlier spelling
      of Tod, is fairly common.

      Hope this helps,

      Ken Mathieson,
      Uddingston LKS

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Gail Keefe" <g.keefe@...>
      To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:13 PM
      Subject: [scots-origins] Tod


      >
      > I have recently discovered the above name among my Scottish relatives. I
      > was quite surprised
      > by this as I had always thought Tod (and perhaps Todd) was of German
      origin.
      >
      > And then, co-incidentally, I saw a reproduction of a painting called
      > Highland Tod, Fox Hunter.
      > The painting is by Richard Ansdell.
      > What I am interested in finding out is what "Tod" represents in this
      > context. - Is it a name?
      > Or a noun describing an object? Or an occupation? Or something else?
      >
      > The painting is owned by the American Kennel Club and can be seen online
      at
      > http://www.akc.org/about/annual_report/2001/p13.html
      >
      > It is an interesting image. I especially like Ansdell's depiction of the
      > woman, and of course the dogs.
      >
      > Gail
      > New Zealand
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------------
      > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
      > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
      members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
      email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
      scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • IACSCOTT@aol.com
      Hi Gail I was interested to read your posting regarding Tod (or Todd) and of the picture you had seen. My Scots Dialect dictionary gives several meanings for
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 4, 2005
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        Hi Gail

        I was interested to read your posting regarding Tod (or Todd) and of the
        picture you had seen. My Scots Dialect dictionary gives several meanings for the
        word including:

        1) a corruption of the word God, used as an exclamation of surprise.
        2) a disparaging term applied to a child.
        3) a small species of crab.
        4) a small round cake of any kind of bread given to pacify or please
        children.
        5) a fit of the sulks.
        6) a fox.
        7) a glass of toddy.

        I would reckon that meaning (6) related to the title of the picture.

        Now for its use as a surname. Black's 'Surnames of Scotland' has quite a
        long entry for it covering both spellings and also Tode and Todde. He starts off
        by saying that it was explained by Bardsley and Harrison as a nickname
        derived from the provincial name of the fox. With two or three exceptions the
        second 'd' appears to be no older than the eighteenth century. Apparently a
        Baldwin Tod held land in Lambirtoun c. 1270 and the croft of Robert Tod in the vill
        (village) of Gordoune is mentioned 1280 and further reference is made to the
        name in the Borders around that time. It appeared in Stirlingshire in 1339,
        Perthshire in 1361, Ayrshire 1571 and so on spreading over the country and
        into Fife. He ends the entry by saying that most of the Tods are found on the
        West Coast and the Todds in Edinburgh.

        I have Tod in my Family Tree with an Alexander Tod who married an Isobela
        Lesly and are my 7 x GGrandparents. Their family dates from 1713 which suggests
        they would have been born in the late 1680s early 1690s but I have not found
        any evidence of that nor their marriage. This family was in Moray and their
        son Alexander was Factor to the Duke of Gordon at Enzie with his son William
        succeeding him in that post. My connection to the Tod line is through the
        first mentioned Alexander's GGranddaughter Helen born 1777 who married Alexander
        Scott at Bellie in 1796.

        As Alexander and Isobela appear to be the origins of the Tod/Todd line in
        the area I suspect that they came there from elsewhere in Scotland and
        certainly some of their descendants (Todds) appear to have settled in Edinburgh where
        at least one seems to have been in the legal profession. The IGI gave me my
        original clues and the Bellie OPR and the National Archives (Gordon Castle
        Estate Papers) have furnished much of the information I have so I am fairly
        confident it is accurate but am still working on it.

        If you can connect to any of this please e-mail me direct.

        Ian A C Scott


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • adp@andrewdpaterson.fsnet.co.uk
        Hi Gail, Tod is a Scots word for a fox. All the best, Andrew Paterson ... -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 4, 2005
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          Hi Gail,
          "Tod" is a Scots word for a fox.

          All the best,
          Andrew Paterson

          > Message date : Feb 04 2005, 10:51 AM
          > From : "Gail Keefe"
          > To : scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
          > Copy to :
          > Subject : [scots-origins] Tod
          >
          > I have recently discovered the above name among my Scottish relatives. I
          > was quite surprised
          > by this as I had always thought Tod (and perhaps Todd) was of German origin.
          >
          > And then, co-incidentally, I saw a reproduction of a painting called
          > Highland Tod, Fox Hunter.
          > The painting is by Richard Ansdell.
          > What I am interested in finding out is what "Tod" represents in this
          > context. - Is it a name?
          > Or a noun describing an object? Or an occupation? Or something else?
          >
          > The painting is owned by the American Kennel Club and can be seen online at
          > http://www.akc.org/about/annual_report/2001/p13.html
          >
          > It is an interesting image. I especially like Ansdell's depiction of the
          > woman, and of course the dogs.
          >
          > Gail
          > New Zealand

          --

          Whatever you Wanadoo:
          http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/

          This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • butcher731@aol.com
          Dear Gail The name is undoubtedly Scottish. In his book The Surnames of Scotland Black devotes half a page to this name. He says that it is supposed to be a
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 5, 2005
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            Dear Gail
            The name is undoubtedly Scottish.
            In his book "The Surnames of Scotland" Black devotes half a page to this
            name.
            He says that it is supposed to be a nickname from the provincial name of the
            fox, so it looks as if Highland Todd had the right occupation.
            As for the spelling, the secon d. appears to occur only from the eighteenth
            century, with two or three exceptions.
            There a a lot of historical references to the name in his book. However
            the earliest are:
            c.1270 Baldwin Tod held lands in Lambirtoun.
            c.1280 A reference to the croft of Robert Tod in the vill of Gordune.
            The two last references he gives are:
            1825 William Todd first introduced printing to Thurso, Caithness.
            1921 Robert Elliot Tod, retired banker and yachtsman, appointed
            commissioner of emigration at New York, USA.
            He says that today the TOD name is found mainly on the west coast of
            Scotland, whilst TODD is found in Edinburgh.
            Hoe this helps.
            Good luck.
            Bernard
            butcher731@...


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • .
            Interesting Ian. Can you tell us how you were able to trace your tree back so early? It might be useful for those of us stuck on a brick, if you know what I
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 7, 2005
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              Interesting Ian. Can you tell us how you were able to trace your tree back so early? It might be
              useful for those of us stuck on a brick, if you know what I mean. I suspect you've done a lot of
              leg work yoursel'

              Janet


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <IACSCOTT@...>

              >
              > Hi Gail
              >
              > I was interested to read your posting regarding Tod (or Todd) and of the
              > picture you had seen. My Scots Dialect dictionary gives several meanings for the
              > word including:
              >
              > 1) a corruption of the word God, used as an exclamation of surprise.
              > 2) a disparaging term applied to a child.
              > 3) a small species of crab.
              > 4) a small round cake of any kind of bread given to pacify or please
              > children.
              > 5) a fit of the sulks.
              > 6) a fox.
              > 7) a glass of toddy.
              >
              > I would reckon that meaning (6) related to the title of the picture.
              >
              > Now for its use as a surname. Black's 'Surnames of Scotland' has quite a
              > long entry for it covering both spellings and also Tode and Todde. He starts off
              > by saying that it was explained by Bardsley and Harrison as a nickname
              > derived from the provincial name of the fox. With two or three exceptions the
              > second 'd' appears to be no older than the eighteenth century. Apparently a
              > Baldwin Tod held land in Lambirtoun c. 1270 and the croft of Robert Tod in the vill
              > (village) of Gordoune is mentioned 1280 and further reference is made to the
              > name in the Borders around that time. It appeared in Stirlingshire in 1339,
              > Perthshire in 1361, Ayrshire 1571 and so on spreading over the country and
              > into Fife. He ends the entry by saying that most of the Tods are found on the
              > West Coast and the Todds in Edinburgh.
              >
              > I have Tod in my Family Tree with an Alexander Tod who married an Isobela
              > Lesly and are my 7 x GGrandparents. Their family dates from 1713 which suggests
              > they would have been born in the late 1680s early 1690s but I have not found
              > any evidence of that nor their marriage. This family was in Moray and their
              > son Alexander was Factor to the Duke of Gordon at Enzie with his son William
              > succeeding him in that post. My connection to the Tod line is through the
              > first mentioned Alexander's GGranddaughter Helen born 1777 who married Alexander
              > Scott at Bellie in 1796.
              >
              > As Alexander and Isobela appear to be the origins of the Tod/Todd line in
              > the area I suspect that they came there from elsewhere in Scotland and
              > certainly some of their descendants (Todds) appear to have settled in Edinburgh where
              > at least one seems to have been in the legal profession. The IGI gave me my
              > original clues and the Bellie OPR and the National Archives (Gordon Castle
              > Estate Papers) have furnished much of the information I have so I am fairly
              > confident it is accurate but am still working on it.
              >
              > If you can connect to any of this please e-mail me direct.
              >
              > Ian A C Scott
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------
              > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
              > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that members can share
              > genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • .
              More about Black and The Surnames of Scotland . I think I might buy this book for its interest content. Did you say earlier what date Black went back to.
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 7, 2005
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                More about Black and "The Surnames of Scotland". I think I might buy this book for its interest
                content. Did you say earlier what date Black went back to. I'm searching backwards from 1750s and
                have an interest in history.

                Someone mentioned the phrase "on your tod" as being alone. I am not sure to what that relates, I
                will try and find out. It is well known that the Cockneys had a language of their own as well as
                cockney rhyming slang. Has anyone Googled it?

                Janet


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <butcher731@...>

                >
                > Dear Gail
                > The name is undoubtedly Scottish.
                > In his book "The Surnames of Scotland" Black devotes half a page to this
                > name.
                > He says that it is supposed to be a nickname from the provincial name of the
                > fox, so it looks as if Highland Todd had the right occupation.
                > As for the spelling, the secon d. appears to occur only from the eighteenth
                > century, with two or three exceptions.
                > There a a lot of historical references to the name in his book. However
                > the earliest are:
                > c.1270 Baldwin Tod held lands in Lambirtoun.
                > c.1280 A reference to the croft of Robert Tod in the vill of Gordune.
                > The two last references he gives are:
                > 1825 William Todd first introduced printing to Thurso, Caithness.
                > 1921 Robert Elliot Tod, retired banker and yachtsman, appointed
                > commissioner of emigration at New York, USA.
                > He says that today the TOD name is found mainly on the west coast of
                > Scotland, whilst TODD is found in Edinburgh.
                > Hoe this helps.
                > Good luck.
                > Bernard
                > butcher731@...
              • Gail Keefe
                Thank you for this Ken. The response I have got from the list on this topic has been great. The father of a friend of mine had the surname Tod meaning in
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 7, 2005
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                  Thank you for this Ken. The response I have got from the list on this topic
                  has been great.

                  The father of a friend of mine had the surname Tod meaning in German, as you
                  point out, death.
                  He was German but when he came to New Zealand he changed his name to Dodd.
                  Thanks again.
                  Gail.
                  Hi Gail et al,

                  Tod(d) is a common surname in Scotland. In the Lowland Scots language, tod
                  means a fox, and by extension it can be used to describe a sly untrustworthy
                  person. Tod in German means death, and I don't recall ever seeing it as
                  surname there, although Todt, which may well derive from an earlier spelling
                  of Tod, is fairly common.

                  Hope this helps,

                  Ken Mathieson,
                  Uddingston LKS
                • Gail Keefe
                  Jackie, thanks for this. I really like Jack Russells so I am pleased they share the same name as one of my relatives. Best wishes, Gail. ... From: J Walder
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 7, 2005
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                    Jackie, thanks for this. I really like Jack Russells so I am pleased they
                    share the same name as
                    one of my relatives.
                    Best wishes,
                    Gail.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: J Walder [mailto:jw006g3366@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:26 a.m.
                    To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Tod


                    Hi I don't know if it helps but in the south of England especially around
                    Hampshire/Dorset area a 'Tod' is often the name of a Jack Russell dog.
                    My late Ma-in-law had a succession of these snappy little beasts, and they
                    were always called Tod or Toddy.
                    Jackie in Kent
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Gail Keefe" <g.keefe@...>
                    To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:13 PM
                    Subject: [scots-origins] Tod


                    >
                    > I have recently discovered the above name among my Scottish relatives. I
                    > was quite surprised
                    > by this as I had always thought Tod (and perhaps Todd) was of German
                    > origin.
                    >
                    > And then, co-incidentally, I saw a reproduction of a painting called
                    > Highland Tod, Fox Hunter.
                    > The painting is by Richard Ansdell.
                    > What I am interested in finding out is what "Tod" represents in this
                    > context. - Is it a name?
                    > Or a noun describing an object? Or an occupation? Or something else?
                    >
                    > The painting is owned by the American Kennel Club and can be seen online
                    > at
                    > http://www.akc.org/about/annual_report/2001/p13.html
                    >
                    > It is an interesting image. I especially like Ansdell's depiction of the
                    > woman, and of course the dogs.
                    >
                    > Gail
                    > New Zealand
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------
                    > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                    > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
                    > members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send
                    > an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                    > scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    -------------------------------------------------------
                    This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                    Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
                    members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
                    email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com

                    To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
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                  • IACSCOTT@aol.com
                    In a message dated 08/02/2005 14:23:06 GMT Standard Time, jinty@whirlygig.wanadoo.co.uk writes: More about Black and The Surnames of Scotland . I think I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 8, 2005
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                      In a message dated 08/02/2005 14:23:06 GMT Standard Time,
                      jinty@... writes:

                      More about Black and "The Surnames of Scotland". I think I might buy this
                      book for its interest
                      content. Did you say earlier what date Black went back to. I'm searching
                      backwards from 1750s and
                      have an interest in history.



                      In the 'Tod' entry the references go back to the 13th Century and I have
                      seen others mentioning the 12th Century.

                      Ian A C Scott


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Gail Keefe
                      Many thanks for your time and trouble to all those who replied to my query. I really appreciate it. I have enjoyed all the responses and it is great having the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 8, 2005
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                        Many thanks for your time and trouble to all those who replied to my query.
                        I really appreciate it.
                        I have enjoyed all the responses and it is great having the benefit of the
                        collective knowledge of this
                        group.
                        Regards,
                        Gail.
                      • gordon crooks
                        Dr. Black s book was first published in 1948, it has been reprinted at least once. Its going to cost you soem money if you canb find a copy to purchase Gordon
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 8, 2005
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                          Dr. Black's book was first published in 1948, it has been reprinted at least
                          once. Its going to cost you soem money if you canb find a copy to purchase

                          Gordon
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <IACSCOTT@...>
                          To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:55 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Tod


                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 08/02/2005 14:23:06 GMT Standard Time,
                          > jinty@... writes:
                          >
                          > More about Black and "The Surnames of Scotland". I think I might buy
                          > this
                          > book for its interest
                          > content. Did you say earlier what date Black went back to. I'm
                          > searching
                          > backwards from 1750s and
                          > have an interest in history.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > In the 'Tod' entry the references go back to the 13th Century and I have
                          > seen others mentioning the 12th Century.
                          >
                          > Ian A C Scott
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------
                          > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                          > Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
                          > members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send
                          > an email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                          > scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • IACSCOTT@aol.com
                          Hi Janet There is no magic wand or formula for tracing ancestors back to the early 1700s otherwise I would have all of them back at that stage. The Tod line
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 9, 2005
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                            Hi Janet

                            There is no magic wand or formula for tracing ancestors back to the early
                            1700s otherwise I would have all of them back at that stage. The Tod line takes
                            me back to my 7 x GGrandparents but they are the only ones I have been
                            fortunate enough to trace to that date.

                            Once you get back to 1855 things do get more difficult and some hard work
                            needs to be done and as many available records as you can lay your hands on need
                            to be examined along with a bit of lateral thinking and a good measure of
                            luck. The first useful port of call is the IGI (International Genealogical
                            Index) but care has to be taken here and I really only use extracted entries. I
                            then check the actual entry in the OPR but these vary quite considerably in
                            what they contain. Census returns are used and I have also consulted records in
                            the National Archives of Scotland. Old newspaper records are also a useful
                            source even although it might not produce fresh information. For instance, I
                            was seeking information regarding an individual whom I knew had married but
                            had been unsuccessful in finding any family. I knew his date of death and from
                            his obituary in the newspaper it was confirmed that he had died without
                            issue. This did not add information but told me to stop trying to find what was
                            not there. Remember, a death certificate issued after 1855 could take you well
                            back into the 1700s as it will give the deceased's parents names and armed
                            with that information some educated guesses will guide you towards where you
                            should be looking.

                            That said, I am careful to cross check where possible but the further back
                            you go the less there is to work with and to be honest I would be the last
                            person to claim that my Family Tree was 100% accurate. I hope that it is, but
                            there is always a doubt in my mind and I am continually on the lookout for some
                            small snippet that will add that bit of extra confirmation.

                            Equally so, I will not turn a blind eye to something, that might destroy my
                            research, if it looks promising and has been well researched. But I will check
                            it for myself!

                            As I said there is no magic wand and no absolute guarantees in this hobby
                            unless you come from a long line of landed gentry or the nobility who are more
                            likely to have kept family records or whose property is recorded in the
                            Register of Sasines. I have just come across something I will need to check there
                            but it is a longshot that it will prove to be part of my history.

                            Hope this is of interest.

                            Ian




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jay
                            Thank you very much for writing this up for us, it is of interest. I wondered if there might be something I was missing. I have traced 3 lines back to 1750s.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 11, 2005
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                              Thank you very much for writing this up for us, it is of interest. I wondered if there might be
                              something I was missing. I have traced 3 lines back to 1750s. I have to admit I have not had
                              success with death records, that is a good point but unless they lived to be 100 it doesnt help me.
                              I have never seen an image on scotlandspeople, so I might have missed something not wanting to
                              purchase something that might not relate; I did do it once.
                              As my Gt +4 Grandfather was Editor of the Montrose Review for a long time I suspect he was too busy
                              working to write up anything about the earlier family. :-)
                              Sadly the family Bible got lost in the sale of a property in Montrose. :-( I wonder if someone has
                              it today?
                              I have got into conflict with others who wanted to tell me the information they had was right: As
                              you say, I always check for myself.
                              I have found a cousin from the London branch of the family tree and I now have one each from my
                              maternal and paternal lines I did not know of before I started searching.

                              Janet




                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <IACSCOTT@...>

                              >
                              > Hi Janet
                              >
                              > There is no magic wand or formula for tracing ancestors back to the early
                              > 1700s otherwise I would have all of them back at that stage. The Tod line takes
                              > me back to my 7 x GGrandparents but they are the only ones I have been
                              > fortunate enough to trace to that date.
                              >
                              > That said, I am careful to cross check where possible but the further back
                              > you go the less there is to work with and to be honest I would be the last
                              > person to claim that my Family Tree was 100% accurate. I hope that it is, but
                              > there is always a doubt in my mind and I am continually on the lookout for some
                              > small snippet that will add that bit of extra confirmation.
                              >
                              > Equally so, I will not turn a blind eye to something, that might destroy my
                              > research, if it looks promising and has been well researched. But I will check
                              > it for myself!
                              >
                              > As I said there is no magic wand and no absolute guarantees in this hobby
                              > unless you come from a long line of landed gentry or the nobility who are more
                              > likely to have kept family records or whose property is recorded in the
                              > Register of Sasines. I have just come across something I will need to check there
                              > but it is a longshot that it will prove to be part of my history.
                              >
                              > Hope this is of interest.
                              >
                              > Ian
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