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Re:"The Doric"

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  • Gavin Bell
    ... Just in case I didn t make the point clearly enough before, can I stress that The Doric (more correctly the Buchan dialect) DEFINITELY IS a variety of
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 30, 2001
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      Tolegranny (?) wrote:

      > This thread is so interesting. I never knew about other languages
      > spoken in Scotland besides Gaelic and English.

      Just in case I didn't make the point clearly enough before, can I stress
      that "The Doric" (more correctly the Buchan dialect) DEFINITELY IS a
      variety of what the linguists call "Scottish English". A very
      individual version, and one very hard for incomers to follow, but, based
      on its grammar and vocabulary, quite clearly part of the great family of
      English. The rash of "Teach Yourself Doric" books, which I and Calum
      have quoted are really part of the Nostalgia Industry, and the
      suggestion that "The Doric" is a separate language is not to be taken
      literally.


      Gavin Bell
    • Dorothy Nicassio
      Dear Rosaline, I don t know when I will next go to North Vancouver and I haven t a clue as to make a sound file. Otherwise, I would be happy to. One
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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        Dear Rosaline,
        I don't know when I will next go to North Vancouver and I haven't a
        clue as to make a sound file. Otherwise, I would be happy to. One
        interesting point, which really surprised me was that he told me that when
        he was on a trip to Sweden, he found they used many of the same words. If
        he had said Norway I wouldn't have been surprised. Since he didn't go to
        Norway, perhaps they are words common to them both....
        Dorothy

        Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...


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      • Lee
        Ah ha! So is it possible that the hatsht matsht dispalsht on the back of my Andrew Johnston of Renny Hill Fife Oil, is in Doric?? The p in dis p alsht
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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          Ah ha! So is it possible that the "hatsht" "matsht" "dispalsht" on the back
          of my Andrew Johnston of Renny Hill Fife Oil, is in Doric??

          The "p" in dis"p"alsht looks more like a German beta that looks like a small
          cursive f. If the person were German it would be written dissalsht.

          Does the "written" word of Doric use beta's?

          Thank you for an oh so interesting thread.

          Eleanor Lee
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Adhaniá <macmullenchild@...>
          To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


          > Does anyone know more about "The Doric"? Where is originated, if it is
          > written, still spoken, anything at all?
          >
          > Thank you in advance...
          > Adhaniá Olson
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Calum Harvie <calum.harvie@...>
          > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:55 AM
          > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
          >
          >
          > > Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that
          Doric
          > > isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
          > > variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
          > > impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
          > > example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!
          > >
          > > Rgds
          > >
          > > Calum
          > > ===============================
          > > Calum Harvie, Director of Research, SCOTTISH RESEARCH
          > > www.scottish-research.co.uk
          > > Keep up to date with events in Scotland. Read our newsletter.
          > > To subscribe to SCOTS ABROAD put SUBSCRIBE in the
          > > SUBJECT of an e-mail to scotsabroad@...
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Dorothy Nicassio" <pict2@...>
          > > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:43 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
          > >
          > >
          > > > Tim,
          > > > The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and
          > they
          > > > speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard
          English,
          > > > albeit with a slight brogue....Somebody just recently wrote to try
          > > > Amazon.com. Dorothy
          > > >
          > > > Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...
          > > >
          > > >
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        • ksgray
          Calum Nothing wrong with nit-picking. I would disagree that Scots is a variety of English; It does come from the same early roots, as we all do, but does
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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            Calum
            Nothing wrong with nit-picking.
            I would disagree that Scots is a variety of English; It does come from the
            same early roots, as we all do, but does qualify as a language in its own
            right.
            Kenny
            >
          • rosaline furnivall
            ... Hi Actually there s great debate over the status of Scots (of which Doric is a dialect). There are many who deny that it is/was a variety of English.
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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              Calum Harvie wrote:
              >Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that Doric
              >isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
              >variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
              >impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
              >example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!<

              Hi

              Actually there's great debate over the status of Scots (of which Doric is a
              dialect). There are many who deny that it is/was a variety of English.
              Certainly they were both derived from a common root, Anglian, but to say
              that one is a variety of another is not strictly true. The waters are
              muddied because of course no-one (not even Doric speakers!) speak
              unadulterated Scots, they speak a mixture of Scots and English. There's an
              excellent introduction to the subject in the Scots dictionary, where it says
              that there were two official languages* in use in Britain by the 14th
              century, English in Tudor England and Scots in Stuart Scotland. "Since both
              of these were of Anglo-Saxon origin, they were linguistically similar but
              far from identical, with Scandinavian elements, for example, more numerous
              and prominent in Scots."
              *surprisingly and shamefully, Gaelic has never been awarded official status
              in Scotland

              best wishes
              Rosaline


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            • rosaline furnivall
              Hi Adhania wrote:
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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                Hi

                Adhania wrote:
                <Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking
                the Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the
                website? That way we could actually hear this!>

                I can recommend the School of Scottish Studies (University of Edinburgh)
                site where they are in the process of putting their entire sound archive
                on-line. Go to www.pearl.arts.ed.ac.uk and click on 'Tocher'. You'll find
                stories and songs in Scots and Gaelic - the stories have the text with them
                but for the songs you're on your own!

                best wishes

                Rosaline

                Researching names: Pilmer (Lothians & Borders); Fraser,
                Anderson,Wiggins,Brown (all Edinburgh);Stuart, McLagan (Perthshire); McRae,
                Ogilvie, Weighton (all Angus); Paterson, Whytock, Colt (all
                Perthshire/Stirlingshire)







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              • dmatt
                Adhania, I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland? Doric is the dialect of North East Scotland and comes in various versions, including
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
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                  Adhania,

                  I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland?

                  Doric is the dialect of North East Scotland and comes in various versions,
                  including Buchan Doric from the area near to Strichen, Aberdeenshire, where
                  there is a Doric Festival each May. I always knew Doric as Aberdonian and
                  could never understand my grandfather. There was a good crowd at the Doric
                  events at the Gordon Homecoming in Huntly last year, even if it took me an
                  hour to understand what they were saying.

                  David
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Adhaniá <macmullenchild@...>
                  To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: 01 October 2001 11:34
                  Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


                  >I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland?
                  >
                  >Adhaniá Olson
                  >
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: Tolegranny <ruralroote@...>
                  >To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:26 AM
                  >Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
                  >
                  >
                  >> This thread is so interesting. I never knew about other languages spoken
                  >in
                  >> Scotland besides Gaelic and English.
                  >>
                  >> Gavin Bell wrote:
                  >>
                  >> > Tim wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > > I was interested in the Doric language.
                  >> > > ... I did not look for books when we were there(unfortunately).
                  >> > > I have since tried to order or otherwise find books on the language
                  >> > > and the people who spoke it.
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >> Brushhugs & Bristle kisses, Tolegranny
                  >> Beautiful Southern Ontario, Canada
                  >> BB Prayer Team Leader, Granny's Grins & Groans Leader, SDP member, BBHL,
                  >CST &
                  >> C-Dan Member.
                  >> mailto:ruralroote@...
                  >> http://www.picturetrail.com/tolegranny
                  >> ICQ #30954928 Yahoo IM: Tolegranny
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -------------------------------------------------------
                  >> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                  >> Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                  >> information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                  >scots-origins@...
                  >>
                  >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                  >scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                  >>
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                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >-------------------------------------------------------
                  >This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                  >Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                  >information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                  scots-origins@...
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                  In a message dated 01/10/01 8:59:35 AM Central Daylight Time, rosfurnivall@hotmail.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 2, 2001
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                    In a message dated 01/10/01 8:59:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
                    rosfurnivall@... writes:

                    <<
                    Adhania wrote:
                    <Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking
                    the Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the
                    website? That way we could actually hear this!>

                    I can recommend the School of Scottish Studies (University of Edinburgh)
                    site where they are in the process of putting their entire sound archive
                    on-line. Go to www.pearl.arts.ed.ac.uk and click on 'Tocher'. You'll find
                    stories and songs in Scots and Gaelic - the stories have the text with them
                    but for the songs you're on your own!

                    best wishes

                    Rosaline
                    >>
                    GreenTrax records has released a double CD set of stories from Scotland which
                    include some Doric, Old Scots and they also have a double CD collection of
                    Gaelic stories.
                    www.greentrax.com or see our artisits list at <A
                    HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/radioscotland/Artistsatoz.html">The Sound of
                    ScotRadio Artists A to Z</A>
                    Cheers
                    Dave
                    MOL DO OIGHREACHD ScotRadioCELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
                    <A HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">
                    http://www.live365.com/stations/240319</A>
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