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Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"

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  • Dorothy Nicassio
    Tim, The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and they speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard English, albeit
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 29 9:43 AM
      Tim,
      The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and they
      speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard English,
      albeit with a slight brogue....Somebody just recently wrote to try
      Amazon.com. Dorothy

      Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...


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    • Adhaniá
      I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland? Adhaniá Olson ... From: Tolegranny To:
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 29 9:50 PM
        I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland?

        Adhaniá Olson

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Tolegranny <ruralroote@...>
        To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:26 AM
        Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


        > This thread is so interesting. I never knew about other languages spoken
        in
        > Scotland besides Gaelic and English.
        >
        > Gavin Bell wrote:
        >
        > > Tim wrote:
        > >
        > > > I was interested in the Doric language.
        > > > ... I did not look for books when we were there(unfortunately).
        > > > I have since tried to order or otherwise find books on the language
        > > > and the people who spoke it.
        > >
        >
        > Brushhugs & Bristle kisses, Tolegranny
        > Beautiful Southern Ontario, Canada
        > BB Prayer Team Leader, Granny's Grins & Groans Leader, SDP member, BBHL,
        CST &
        > C-Dan Member.
        > mailto:ruralroote@...
        > http://www.picturetrail.com/tolegranny
        > ICQ #30954928 Yahoo IM: Tolegranny
        >
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------
        > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
        > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
        > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
        scots-origins@...
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      • Gavin Bell
        ... Just in case I didn t make the point clearly enough before, can I stress that The Doric (more correctly the Buchan dialect) DEFINITELY IS a variety of
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 30 2:31 AM
          Tolegranny (?) wrote:

          > This thread is so interesting. I never knew about other languages
          > spoken in Scotland besides Gaelic and English.

          Just in case I didn't make the point clearly enough before, can I stress
          that "The Doric" (more correctly the Buchan dialect) DEFINITELY IS a
          variety of what the linguists call "Scottish English". A very
          individual version, and one very hard for incomers to follow, but, based
          on its grammar and vocabulary, quite clearly part of the great family of
          English. The rash of "Teach Yourself Doric" books, which I and Calum
          have quoted are really part of the Nostalgia Industry, and the
          suggestion that "The Doric" is a separate language is not to be taken
          literally.


          Gavin Bell
        • Calum Harvie
          Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that Doric isn t actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a variety of
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
            Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that Doric
            isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
            variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
            impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
            example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!

            Rgds

            Calum
            ===============================
            Calum Harvie, Director of Research, SCOTTISH RESEARCH
            www.scottish-research.co.uk
            Keep up to date with events in Scotland. Read our newsletter.
            To subscribe to SCOTS ABROAD put SUBSCRIBE in the
            SUBJECT of an e-mail to scotsabroad@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dorothy Nicassio" <pict2@...>
            To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:43 PM
            Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


            > Tim,
            > The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and they
            > speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard English,
            > albeit with a slight brogue....Somebody just recently wrote to try
            > Amazon.com. Dorothy
            >
            > Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------
            > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
            > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
            > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
            scots-origins@...
            >
            > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
            scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
            >
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            >
            >
          • Adhaniá
            Does anyone know more about The Doric ? Where is originated, if it is written, still spoken, anything at all? Thank you in advance... Adhaniá Olson ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
              Does anyone know more about "The Doric"? Where is originated, if it is
              written, still spoken, anything at all?

              Thank you in advance...
              Adhaniá Olson

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Calum Harvie <calum.harvie@...>
              To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:55 AM
              Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


              > Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that Doric
              > isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
              > variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
              > impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
              > example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!
              >
              > Rgds
              >
              > Calum
              > ===============================
              > Calum Harvie, Director of Research, SCOTTISH RESEARCH
              > www.scottish-research.co.uk
              > Keep up to date with events in Scotland. Read our newsletter.
              > To subscribe to SCOTS ABROAD put SUBSCRIBE in the
              > SUBJECT of an e-mail to scotsabroad@...
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Dorothy Nicassio" <pict2@...>
              > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:43 PM
              > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
              >
              >
              > > Tim,
              > > The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and
              they
              > > speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard English,
              > > albeit with a slight brogue....Somebody just recently wrote to try
              > > Amazon.com. Dorothy
              > >
              > > Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...
              > >
              > >
              > > _________________________________________________________________
              > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
              http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
              > >
              > >
              > > -------------------------------------------------------
              > > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
              > > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
              > > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
              > scots-origins@...
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
              > scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------
              > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
              > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
              > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
              scots-origins@...
              >
              > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
              scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
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              >
              >
            • Adhaniá
              Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking the Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the website?
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking the
                Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the
                website? That way we could actually hear this!

                Adhaniá

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Dorothy Nicassio <pict2@...>
                <snip>> The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon
                and they
                > speak the Doric when there. <snip>
              • rosaline furnivall
                ... Hi Actually there s great debate over the status of Scots (of which Doric is a dialect). There are many who deny that it is/was a variety of English.
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                  Calum Harvie wrote:
                  >Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that Doric
                  >isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
                  >variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
                  >impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
                  >example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!<

                  Hi

                  Actually there's great debate over the status of Scots (of which Doric is a
                  dialect). There are many who deny that it is/was a variety of English.
                  Certainly they were both derived from a common root, Anglian, but to say
                  that one is a variety of another is not strictly true. The waters are
                  muddied because of course no-one (not even Doric speakers!) speak
                  unadulterated Scots, they speak a mixture of Scots and English. There's an
                  excellent introduction to the subject in the Scots dictionary, where it says
                  that there were two official languages* in use in Britain by the 14th
                  century, English in Tudor England and Scots in Stuart Scotland. "Since both
                  of these were of Anglo-Saxon origin, they were linguistically similar but
                  far from identical, with Scandinavian elements, for example, more numerous
                  and prominent in Scots."
                  *surprisingly and shamefully, Gaelic has never been awarded official status
                  in Scotland

                  best wishes
                  Rosaline


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                • rosaline furnivall
                  Hi Adhania wrote:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                    Hi

                    Adhania wrote:
                    <Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking
                    the Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the
                    website? That way we could actually hear this!>

                    I can recommend the School of Scottish Studies (University of Edinburgh)
                    site where they are in the process of putting their entire sound archive
                    on-line. Go to www.pearl.arts.ed.ac.uk and click on 'Tocher'. You'll find
                    stories and songs in Scots and Gaelic - the stories have the text with them
                    but for the songs you're on your own!

                    best wishes

                    Rosaline

                    Researching names: Pilmer (Lothians & Borders); Fraser,
                    Anderson,Wiggins,Brown (all Edinburgh);Stuart, McLagan (Perthshire); McRae,
                    Ogilvie, Weighton (all Angus); Paterson, Whytock, Colt (all
                    Perthshire/Stirlingshire)







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                  • Dorothy Nicassio
                    Dear Rosaline, I don t know when I will next go to North Vancouver and I haven t a clue as to make a sound file. Otherwise, I would be happy to. One
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                      Dear Rosaline,
                      I don't know when I will next go to North Vancouver and I haven't a
                      clue as to make a sound file. Otherwise, I would be happy to. One
                      interesting point, which really surprised me was that he told me that when
                      he was on a trip to Sweden, he found they used many of the same words. If
                      he had said Norway I wouldn't have been surprised. Since he didn't go to
                      Norway, perhaps they are words common to them both....
                      Dorothy

                      Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...


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                    • Lee
                      Ah ha! So is it possible that the hatsht matsht dispalsht on the back of my Andrew Johnston of Renny Hill Fife Oil, is in Doric?? The p in dis p alsht
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                        Ah ha! So is it possible that the "hatsht" "matsht" "dispalsht" on the back
                        of my Andrew Johnston of Renny Hill Fife Oil, is in Doric??

                        The "p" in dis"p"alsht looks more like a German beta that looks like a small
                        cursive f. If the person were German it would be written dissalsht.

                        Does the "written" word of Doric use beta's?

                        Thank you for an oh so interesting thread.

                        Eleanor Lee
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Adhaniá <macmullenchild@...>
                        To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:32 AM
                        Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


                        > Does anyone know more about "The Doric"? Where is originated, if it is
                        > written, still spoken, anything at all?
                        >
                        > Thank you in advance...
                        > Adhaniá Olson
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Calum Harvie <calum.harvie@...>
                        > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:55 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
                        >
                        >
                        > > Just being a bit pedantic here, but it is probably worth noting that
                        Doric
                        > > isn't actually a language but is a variety of Scots (which in turn is a
                        > > variety of English). Sure it has plenty unique elements which give the
                        > > impression of an actual language, but it isn't really the same as, for
                        > > example, Gaelic. Sorry to "nit-pick"!
                        > >
                        > > Rgds
                        > >
                        > > Calum
                        > > ===============================
                        > > Calum Harvie, Director of Research, SCOTTISH RESEARCH
                        > > www.scottish-research.co.uk
                        > > Keep up to date with events in Scotland. Read our newsletter.
                        > > To subscribe to SCOTS ABROAD put SUBSCRIBE in the
                        > > SUBJECT of an e-mail to scotsabroad@...
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "Dorothy Nicassio" <pict2@...>
                        > > To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:43 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Tim,
                        > > > The Doric is still being spoken. I have relatives from Ellon and
                        > they
                        > > > speak the Doric when there. When in Canada they speak standard
                        English,
                        > > > albeit with a slight brogue....Somebody just recently wrote to try
                        > > > Amazon.com. Dorothy
                        > > >
                        > > > Dorothy Nicassio; pict2@...
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > _________________________________________________________________
                        > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                        > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > -------------------------------------------------------
                        > > > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored
                        by
                        > > > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family
                        history
                        > > > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                        > > scots-origins@...
                        > > >
                        > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                        > > scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                        > > >
                        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -------------------------------------------------------
                        > > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                        > > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                        > > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                        > scots-origins@...
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                        > scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > -------------------------------------------------------
                        > This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                        > Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                        > information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                        scots-origins@...
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                      • ksgray
                        Calum Nothing wrong with nit-picking. I would disagree that Scots is a variety of English; It does come from the same early roots, as we all do, but does
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                          Calum
                          Nothing wrong with nit-picking.
                          I would disagree that Scots is a variety of English; It does come from the
                          same early roots, as we all do, but does qualify as a language in its own
                          right.
                          Kenny
                          >
                        • dmatt
                          Adhania, I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland? Doric is the dialect of North East Scotland and comes in various versions, including
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 1, 2001
                            Adhania,

                            I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland?

                            Doric is the dialect of North East Scotland and comes in various versions,
                            including Buchan Doric from the area near to Strichen, Aberdeenshire, where
                            there is a Doric Festival each May. I always knew Doric as Aberdonian and
                            could never understand my grandfather. There was a good crowd at the Doric
                            events at the Gordon Homecoming in Huntly last year, even if it took me an
                            hour to understand what they were saying.

                            David
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Adhaniá <macmullenchild@...>
                            To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: 01 October 2001 11:34
                            Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"


                            >I missed this...is Doric a Greek language? Spoken in Scotland?
                            >
                            >Adhaniá Olson
                            >
                            >----- Original Message -----
                            >From: Tolegranny <ruralroote@...>
                            >To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:26 AM
                            >Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Re: "The Doric"
                            >
                            >
                            >> This thread is so interesting. I never knew about other languages spoken
                            >in
                            >> Scotland besides Gaelic and English.
                            >>
                            >> Gavin Bell wrote:
                            >>
                            >> > Tim wrote:
                            >> >
                            >> > > I was interested in the Doric language.
                            >> > > ... I did not look for books when we were there(unfortunately).
                            >> > > I have since tried to order or otherwise find books on the language
                            >> > > and the people who spoke it.
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >> Brushhugs & Bristle kisses, Tolegranny
                            >> Beautiful Southern Ontario, Canada
                            >> BB Prayer Team Leader, Granny's Grins & Groans Leader, SDP member, BBHL,
                            >CST &
                            >> C-Dan Member.
                            >> mailto:ruralroote@...
                            >> http://www.picturetrail.com/tolegranny
                            >> ICQ #30954928 Yahoo IM: Tolegranny
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> -------------------------------------------------------
                            >> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                            >> Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                            >> information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                            >scots-origins@...
                            >>
                            >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
                            >scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                            >>
                            >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >-------------------------------------------------------
                            >This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
                            >Scots Origins (www.origins.net), the official website for family history
                            >information from Scotland, to reply send an email to
                            scots-origins@...
                            >
                            >To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • ScotHeritage@aol.com
                            In a message dated 01/10/01 8:59:35 AM Central Daylight Time, rosfurnivall@hotmail.com writes:
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 2, 2001
                              In a message dated 01/10/01 8:59:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
                              rosfurnivall@... writes:

                              <<
                              Adhania wrote:
                              <Dorothy, any chance at all that you might record your relatives speaking
                              the Doric, and sending the sound files out to us, or putting them on the
                              website? That way we could actually hear this!>

                              I can recommend the School of Scottish Studies (University of Edinburgh)
                              site where they are in the process of putting their entire sound archive
                              on-line. Go to www.pearl.arts.ed.ac.uk and click on 'Tocher'. You'll find
                              stories and songs in Scots and Gaelic - the stories have the text with them
                              but for the songs you're on your own!

                              best wishes

                              Rosaline
                              >>
                              GreenTrax records has released a double CD set of stories from Scotland which
                              include some Doric, Old Scots and they also have a double CD collection of
                              Gaelic stories.
                              www.greentrax.com or see our artisits list at <A
                              HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/radioscotland/Artistsatoz.html">The Sound of
                              ScotRadio Artists A to Z</A>
                              Cheers
                              Dave
                              MOL DO OIGHREACHD ScotRadioCELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
                              <A HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">
                              http://www.live365.com/stations/240319</A>
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