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Who gets start #6?

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  • Tony Bennett
    So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible). The guys in the bullpen
    Message 1 of 19 , May 17, 2017
      So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible).

      The guys in the bullpen are listed as:
      Pitcher | Earliest Inn | vL | vR
      P#1 | 1 | 7 | 7
      P#2 | 1 | 8 | 8
      P#3 | 1 | 6 | 4 *RH reliever who is SP-eligible
      P#4 | 1 | 2 | 6 *LH reliever who is SP-eligible

      So for my 6th SP of the week, does it just take the first guy listed in the bullpen (P#1, in this case)? Or does it look for who would enter the game first in a pitching change situation?

      Also, I actually don't know if any of the five guys in the rotation have a 'banked' start - is there anywhere on the site to tell that?

      Thanks!
      Tony


      --
      Tony Bennett
      405-642-6103
    • Joseph Sherman
      I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the first starter
      Message 2 of 19 , May 17, 2017
        I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the first starter eligible player with three or more innings.
        There's no list of banked starts. You have to look at each pitcher's stats.

        Joseph
        On May 17, 2017, at 10:52 PM, "Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible).

        The guys in the bullpen are listed as:
        Pitcher | Earliest Inn | vL | vR
        P#1 | 1 | 7 | 7
        P#2 | 1 | 8 | 8
        P#3 | 1 | 6 | 4 *RH reliever who is SP-eligible
        P#4 | 1 | 2 | 6 *LH reliever who is SP-eligible

        So for my 6th SP of the week, does it just take the first guy listed in the bullpen (P#1, in this case)? Or does it look for who would enter the game first in a pitching change situation?

        Also, I actually don't know if any of the five guys in the rotation have a 'banked' start - is there anywhere on the site to tell that?

        Thanks!
        Tony


        --
        Tony Bennett
        405-642-6103
      • JohnRMayne
        For clarification: In your case, it s pitcher 1. He s the first listed, and the order of listing trumps the order from bullpen. JRM ... I believe first would
        Message 3 of 19 , May 18, 2017
          For clarification: In your case, it's pitcher 1. He's the first listed, and the order of listing trumps the order from bullpen.

          JRM


          ---In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, <jssherm@...> wrote :

          I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the first starter eligible player with three or more innings.
          There's no list of banked starts. You have to look at each pitcher's stats.

          Joseph
          On May 17, 2017, at 10:52 PM, "Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible).

          The guys in the bullpen are listed as:
          Pitcher | Earliest Inn | vL | vR
          P#1 | 1 | 7 | 7
          P#2 | 1 | 8 | 8
          P#3 | 1 | 6 | 4 *RH reliever who is SP-eligible
          P#4 | 1 | 2 | 6 *LH reliever who is SP-eligible

          So for my 6th SP of the week, does it just take the first guy listed in the bullpen (P#1, in this case)? Or does it look for who would enter the game first in a pitching change situation?

          Also, I actually don't know if any of the five guys in the rotation have a 'banked' start - is there anywhere on the site to tell that?

          Thanks!
          Tony


          --
          Tony Bennett
          405-642-6103
        • Jeff Barton
          Correct. Thanks! On 5/17/17 8:01 PM, Joseph Sherman jssherm@optonline.net ... -- Jeff Barton Scoresheet Sports - offering the best in fantasy games 719 Zion
          Message 4 of 19 , May 18, 2017
            Correct. Thanks!


            On 5/17/17 8:01 PM, Joseph Sherman jssherm@...
            [scoresheet-talk] wrote:
            > I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the
            > first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the
            > first starter eligible player with three or more innings.
            > There's no list of banked starts. You have to look at each pitcher's
            > stats.
            >
            > Joseph

            --

            Jeff Barton
            Scoresheet Sports - offering the best in fantasy games
            719 Zion St
            Nevada City, CA 95959
            530-470-1880
            jeff@...
            www.scoresheet.com <http://www.scoresheet.com>
          • Tony Bennett
            Thanks, fellas! On May 18, 2017 8:25 AM, jrmayne@gmail.com [scoresheet-talk]
            Message 5 of 19 , May 18, 2017
              Thanks, fellas! 

              On May 18, 2017 8:25 AM, "jrmayne@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               

              For clarification: In your case, it's pitcher 1. He's the first listed, and the order of listing trumps the order from bullpen.


              JRM


              ---In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups. com, <jssherm@...> wrote :

              I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the first starter eligible player with three or more innings.
              There's no list of banked starts. You have to look at each pitcher's stats.

              Joseph
              On May 17, 2017, at 10:52 PM, "Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
              So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible).

              The guys in the bullpen are listed as:
              Pitcher | Earliest Inn | vL | vR
              P#1 | 1 | 7 | 7
              P#2 | 1 | 8 | 8
              P#3 | 1 | 6 | 4 *RH reliever who is SP-eligible
              P#4 | 1 | 2 | 6 *LH reliever who is SP-eligible

              So for my 6th SP of the week, does it just take the first guy listed in the bullpen (P#1, in this case)? Or does it look for who would enter the game first in a pitching change situation?

              Also, I actually don't know if any of the five guys in the rotation have a 'banked' start - is there anywhere on the site to tell that?

              Thanks!
              Tony


              --
            • Tony Bennett
              You mentioned looking at a pitchers starts A start is only banked if he was in your rotation, right? On May 18, 2017 4:21 AM, Joseph Sherman
              Message 6 of 19 , May 18, 2017
                You mentioned "looking at a pitchers starts" 

                A start is only 'banked' if he was in your rotation, right?

                On May 18, 2017 4:21 AM, "Joseph Sherman jssherm@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                I believe first would be any banked starts, if none, it will take the first bullpen guy who got a start that week. If none, it will take the first starter eligible player with three or more innings.
                There's no list of banked starts. You have to look at each pitcher's stats.

                Joseph
                On May 17, 2017, at 10:52 PM, "Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]" <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
                So I threw out a rotation of guys all getting 1 start weeks, with 2 SP in the bullpen (and another 2 bullpen guys who are SP-eligible).

                The guys in the bullpen are listed as:
                Pitcher | Earliest Inn | vL | vR
                P#1 | 1 | 7 | 7
                P#2 | 1 | 8 | 8
                P#3 | 1 | 6 | 4 *RH reliever who is SP-eligible
                P#4 | 1 | 2 | 6 *LH reliever who is SP-eligible

                So for my 6th SP of the week, does it just take the first guy listed in the bullpen (P#1, in this case)? Or does it look for who would enter the game first in a pitching change situation?

                Also, I actually don't know if any of the five guys in the rotation have a 'banked' start - is there anywhere on the site to tell that?

                Thanks!
                Tony


                --
              • Jeff Barton
                Correct. On 5/18/17 10:41 AM, Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@gmail.com [scoresheet-talk] ... -- Jeff Barton Scoresheet Sports - offering the best in fantasy games 719
                Message 7 of 19 , May 18, 2017
                  Correct.


                  On 5/18/17 10:41 AM, Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]
                  wrote:
                  > A start is only 'banked' if he was in your rotation, right?

                  --

                  Jeff Barton
                  Scoresheet Sports - offering the best in fantasy games
                  719 Zion St
                  Nevada City, CA 95959
                  530-470-1880
                  jeff@...
                  www.scoresheet.com <http://www.scoresheet.com>
                • Joseph Sherman
                  Correct. You need to look at the weeks where a guy got two starts in real life; was in your rotation; and only got one start for you. If it happened more than
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 18, 2017
                    Correct. You need to look at the weeks where a guy got two starts in real life; was in your rotation; and only got one start for you. If it happened more than once for any one pitcher, the most recent banked start for that guy is used first.


                    Joseph



                    On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 01:41 PM, Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk] wrote:



                    You mentioned "looking at a pitchers starts" 

                    A start is only 'banked' if he was in your rotation, right?

                  • eric moyer
                    Jeff, Is there an easy way for you to make banked starts visible to owners? It d be a nice thing to have handy. EricM On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Jeff
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 18, 2017
                      Jeff, 

                      Is there an easy way for you to make banked starts visible to owners? It'd be a nice thing to have handy.

                      EricM

                      On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Jeff Barton jeff@... [scoresheet-talk] <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      Correct.


                      On 5/18/17 10:41 AM, Tony Bennett tb3nn3tt@... [scoresheet-talk]
                      wrote:
                      > A start is only 'banked' if he was in your rotation, right?

                      --

                      Jeff Barton
                      Scoresheet Sports - offering the best in fantasy games
                      719 Zion St
                      Nevada City, CA 95959
                      530-470-1880
                      jeff@...
                      www.scoresheet.com <http://www.scoresheet.com>



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                    • msvmsv
                      I don t think it uses the most recent banked start. It uses the average of the previous ones. Jeff previously confirmed that this is correct:
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 19, 2017
                        I don't think it uses the most recent banked start.  It uses the average of the previous ones.  Jeff previously confirmed that this is correct:

                        On 4/28/14 9:42 AM, Greg Hardy wrote:
                        > May I follow up, Your Honor?
                        >
                        > From a previous week, I had Lester with a banked start of 7 IP/2.51 
                        > ERA. So now I will add in the stats from a second banked start (this 
                        > one at 6 IP/5.40 ERA).
                        >
                        > If I understand this correctly, then, I now have TWO banked starts 
                        > from Lester for later weeks when I run short? And each start would be 
                        > 6 to 7 IP with an ERA around 4? Is that what we mean when we say they 
                        > are all mushed together?

                      • Joseph Sherman
                        You sure? I thought if you had banked starts it uses the current week start and the most recent banked start over two starts. Usually this works out to match
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 19, 2017
                          You sure? I thought if you had banked starts it uses the current week start and the most recent banked start over two starts. Usually this works out to match the total for the current start plus the banked start. I did not think that banked starts were combined with other banked starts for an "average bank". Jeff?

                          I've noticed that if your guy has one bad and one good start for the real week, he will often do the same in scoresheet rather than put up two mediocre starts.


                          Joseph



                          On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, msvmsv@... [scoresheet-talk] wrote:



                          I don't think it uses the most recent banked start.  It uses the average of the previous ones.  Jeff previously confirmed that this is correct:

                          On 4/28/14 9:42 AM, Greg Hardy wrote:
                          > May I follow up, Your Honor?
                          >
                          > From a previous week, I had Lester with a banked start of 7 IP/2.51 
                          > ERA. So now I will add in the stats from a second banked start (this 
                          > one at 6 IP/5.40 ERA).
                          >
                          > If I understand this correctly, then, I now have TWO banked starts 
                          > from Lester for later weeks when I run short? And each start would be 
                          > 6 to 7 IP with an ERA around 4? Is that what we mean when we say they 
                          > are all mushed together?



                        • Dave Barton
                          Banked starts are combined. Since your opponents are different than in real life, and there’s an element of luck (which is luck-balanced later), two mediocre
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 19, 2017
                            Banked starts are combined.

                            Since your opponents are different than in real life, and there’s an element of luck (which is luck-balanced later), two mediocre starts often produce 1 good + 1 bad start, and vice versa.

                            Also the order of bullpen pitchers promoted to the rotation doesn’t choose pitchers with banked starts above pitchers with normal starts. It respects the order you list pitchers in, ignores their rank as relievers, and looks for a pitcher with a start available first, else one with 3 IP if necessary, else it goes to your farm system if necessary. See e.g. http://www.scoresheet.com/baseball/nldr11.php (there’s a link to that page, or its A.L. version, in the online lineup card above the pitcher sections).

                            Play Ball!, Dave Barton

                            On May 19, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Joseph Sherman jssherm@... [scoresheet-talk] <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            You sure? I thought if you had banked starts it uses the current week start and the most recent banked start over two starts. Usually this works out to match the total for the current start plus the banked start. I did not think that banked starts were combined with other banked starts for an "average bank". Jeff?


                            I've noticed that if your guy has one bad and one good start for the real week, he will often do the same in scoresheet rather than put up two mediocre starts.


                            Joseph



                            On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, msvmsv@... [scoresheet-talk] wrote:



                            I don't think it uses the most recent banked start.  It uses the average of the previous ones.  Jeff previously confirmed that this is correct:

                            On 4/28/14 9:42 AM, Greg Hardy wrote:
                            > May I follow up, Your Honor?
                            >
                            > From a previous week, I had Lester with a banked start of 7 IP/2.51 
                            > ERA. So now I will add in the stats from a second banked start (this 
                            > one at 6 IP/5.40 ERA).
                            >
                            > If I understand this correctly, then, I now have TWO banked starts 
                            > from Lester for later weeks when I run short? And each start would be 
                            > 6 to 7 IP with an ERA around 4? Is that what we mean when we say they 
                            > are all mushed together?
                          • mitchwetteland
                            Here s one I m not sure I ve ever encountered, but the possibility is very real for a lineup change for next week: 7-game week. Rotation should have 6 of
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 25, 2017
                              Here's one I'm not sure I've ever encountered, but the possibility is very real for a lineup change for next week:

                              7-game week.  Rotation 'should' have 6 of those.  SP#6 will pick up the 7th game.  Fine so far.  However, there may be some rotation drama where I miss out on a start, meaning I'd next to pick up a 2nd one from the pen.  SP#6 also has a banked start.  Dave says elsewhere that banked starts won't take priority over regular starts, but what if your highest listed pen SP ALSO has one in the bank; then does it take priority over SP#7?  No wrong answer here, just wanting to know what to expect and maybe do further juggling from it.
                            • garthhewitt
                              I believe that banked starts have a tight set of criteria they must match to be used. The SP must be listed in the rotation to accumulated one. The SP must be
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 25, 2017
                                I believe that banked starts have a tight set of criteria they must match to be used.
                                The SP must be listed in the rotation to accumulated one.
                                The SP must be listed in the rotation to use one.
                                They can only be used for a pitcher with a live start that week.

                                Thus, I strongly believe, SP #6 cannot use a banked start.
                              • Stephen Shelby
                                FWIW, my recollection is that a #6 SP can use a banked start, and that would come ahead of any start from SP #7. My recollection concurs with Garth that a
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 25, 2017
                                  FWIW, my recollection is that a #6 SP can use a banked start, and that would come ahead of any start from SP #7.

                                  My recollection concurs with Garth that a pitcher must be listed in the rotation to bank a start.  If the a pitcher in the bullpen starts two MLB games but one Scoresheet game, then effectively the innings from the second start are available out of the Scoresheet bullpen in relief.

                                  On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:01 PM, garthhewitt@... [scoresheet-talk] <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                  I believe that banked starts have a tight set of criteria they must match to be used.
                                  The SP must be listed in the rotation to accumulated one.
                                  The SP must be listed in the rotation to use one.
                                  They can only be used for a pitcher with a live start that week.

                                  Thus, I strongly believe, SP #6 cannot use a banked start.



                                • msvmsv
                                  I m certain a pitcher must be in the rotation to bank a start. I believe Stephen is right that a pitcher from the bullpen can use a previously banked start.
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 26, 2017
                                    I'm certain a pitcher must be in the rotation to bank a start.  I believe Stephen is right that a pitcher from the bullpen can use a previously banked start.
                                  • garthhewitt
                                    I tried to search for when we ve covered that before. Yahoo took the search-function away, but google found twice when Jeff B has answered this question, one
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 26, 2017
                                      I tried to search for when we've covered that before.  Yahoo took the search-function away, but google found twice when Jeff B has answered this question, one on this list and one archived -- thank you JDM -- at attheplate.

                                      1.  In 2012, answering a question
                                      Pitchers *do* keep their banked starts even if you move them to the farm team (or bullpen), and are available for use "once you move them back to the rotation".   [added "s are mine]
                                      http://www.attheplate.com/notes/ss_pitch.htm

                                      2. In 2014, Jeff answered "correct" to another's explanation
                                      "Similarly, a banked start can only be Used by a pitcher who is in your rotation, who starts once in majors, but twice for you as needed."

                                      This is what I am remembering.  Maybe there's been a change, or maybe Jeff or Dave have explained it differently or more precisely another time.  But for now at least I am confident the explanation has been that only an SP listed in the rotation is eligible to use a banked start. 

                                      Remember that an SP in the bullpen can both start for you and pitch in relief.

                                    • Dave Barton
                                      Here is my answer to scoresheet-talk from 2014 and I stand by it. :) I suggest others correct their answers to agree with mine. :) Play Ball! - Dave B. P.S.
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 26, 2017
                                        Here is my answer to scoresheet-talk from 2014 and I stand by it. :) I suggest others correct their answers to agree with mine. :)

                                        Play Ball! - Dave B.

                                        P.S. The reason (banked starts can be used by pitchers promoted from the pen to start) is to prevent you from permanently burying a bad banked start by listing that pitcher at the top of your pen, with an injured guy or minor leaguer listed in your rotation.

                                        On Jul 12, 2014, at 11:34 PM, Dave Barton <dave@...> wrote:

                                        On Jul 12, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Joseph S Sherman jssherm@... [scoresheet-talk] <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                        pretty sure the following is correct:
                                        A start can be banked only when a pitcher is in your rotation, starts twice in the majors and only once for you.

                                        Exactly!

                                        Similarly, a banked start can only be Used by a pitcher who is in your rotation, who starts once in majors, but twice for you as needed.

                                        Slight correction: a pitcher promoted to your rotation can also use a banked start if necessary, he just can’t accrue (bank a new) one (he would be used as a reliever in other series that week). - Dave

                                        __,_._

                                        On May 26, 2017, at 9:20 AM, garthhewitt@... [scoresheet-talk] <scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                        I tried to search for when we've covered that before.  Yahoo took the search-function away, but google found twice when Jeff B has answered this question, one on this list and one archived -- thank you JDM -- at attheplate.


                                        1.  In 2012, answering a question
                                        Pitchers *do* keep their banked starts even if you move them to the farm team (or bullpen), and are available for use "once you move them back to the rotation".   [added "s are mine]
                                        http://www.attheplate.com/notes/ss_pitch.htm

                                        2. In 2014, Jeff answered "correct" to another's explanation
                                        "Similarly, a banked start can only be Used by a pitcher who is in your rotation, who starts once in majors, but twice for you as needed."

                                        This is what I am remembering.  Maybe there's been a change, or maybe Jeff or Dave have explained it differently or more precisely another time.  But for now at least I am confident the explanation has been that only an SP listed in the rotation is eligible to use a banked start. 

                                        Remember that an SP in the bullpen can both start for you and pitch in relief.
                                      • garthhewitt
                                        Thanks Dave. Kudos to Steve Shelby for remembering the recent better the the old. (We older guys cling to what we learned first.) Brian, Paul, Can we archive
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 27, 2017
                                          Thanks Dave.  Kudos to Steve Shelby for remembering the recent better the the old.  (We older guys cling to what we learned first.)

                                          Brian, Paul, Can we archive this to our Wisdom-of-the-Bartons section?
                                          JDM, too, your site, do you want to update?

                                          Per the guy who programs the program, today ... 

                                           ** banked starts can be used by pitchers promoted from the pen to start ** 



                                          I think this thread is done.  Me was wrong.
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