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BSG leaving SF behind ...

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  • Aleksander Slominski
    ... in such case when watching in season 3 there is nothing left but few minutes of battleship scenes in hours of political/religion droning so far IMHO. ...
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 1, 2006
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      Ignacio Viglizzo wrote:
      > I missed the part where your post was politically correct... ;-)
      > I like BSG, except for the religious nonsence. :P
      in such case when watching in season 3 there is nothing left but few
      minutes of battleship scenes in hours of political/religion droning so
      far IMHO.
      > Still, they dare
      > go where no SF show had gone before...
      >
      but is it SF any longer? or did it go so far it left SF behind?

      it seems it truly became pop sci fi show and i care about BSG less and
      less with every new episode i watch - still i would love to be proven
      wrong ...

      best,

      alek
      > On 10/30/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@...> wrote:
      >
      >> POLITICALLY CORRECT POSTCRIPTUM (Polaris' Comunist Party?): I said
      >> that because the "Colonized" in neoBSG are antitechnological IDIOTS
      >> who depise singularity-like tech because they hardly could survive
      >> their own (The Cylon Wars) They became mysticism and new-age driven
      >> space Amish instead of a powerful spacefaring culture (if they had
      >> gone beyond the Twelve little planets they colonized...*sigh*) Now I
      >> thoerize the Cylon "God" in the best case escenario is a Sublimified
      >> Cylon who has up-graded to Vingean level tech itself. Of course as I
      >> know the excecs of the show are not THAT SMART, they will bring us an
      >> answer that will make look "End of Evangelion" like something actually
      >> understable. So what's my point?
      >>
      >> The "Colonized" DESERVE what is happening to them in New Caprica for
      >> have sold-out to a populist candidate like Baltar (otherwise I didn't
      >> like either the religious options of Laura "Manifest Destiny" Roslin).
      >>
      >
      > Ignacio
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
    • Aleksander Slominski
      ... i for one prefer it from discussing war or politics ... unfortunately sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it? right now not
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 1, 2006
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        membi_99 wrote:
        > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Ignacio Viglizzo"
        > <viglizzo@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Politics and SF... we´ve discussed this here before, usually with
        >> someone saying it was off topic and someone ended up leaving the
        >> group...
        >> This is an interesting article, i hope nobody feels offended.
        >> I think suicide bombing has been an acceptable tactic in SF for a long
        >> time... see for example, independance day.
        >>
        >> Article Title: Battlestar Galacticons
        >> Article URL: http://www.prospect.org/web/view-web.ww?id=12172
        >>
        >> --
        >> Ignacio
        >>
        >
        > I've no objection to discussing politics and science fiction..I just
        > don't want to be harangued about present government conspiracy
        > theories ad nauseum.
        >
        > There are three things I think the human race can't discuss
        > sensibly,two of which are the daily fare on the daily news here in the
        > UK.So when you cross of religion and politics that only leaves the
        > third one.Now that leaves sex and I'm game if you are...
        >
        i for one prefer it from discussing war or politics ... unfortunately
        sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it?
        right now not any book that comes to my mind ...

        best,

        alek

        --
        The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
      • spider38ss
        ... just ... in the ... unfortunately ... I m trying to think of one and the best I can do is Red Mars, there was some sex(or was it just talk about sex?)in
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 1, 2006
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          --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, Aleksander Slominski
          <aslom@...> wrote:
          >
          > membi_99 wrote:
          > > I've no objection to discussing politics and science fiction..I
          just
          > > don't want to be harangued about present government conspiracy
          > > theories ad nauseum.
          > >
          > > There are three things I think the human race can't discuss
          > > sensibly,two of which are the daily fare on the daily news here
          in the
          > > UK.So when you cross of religion and politics that only leaves the
          > > third one.Now that leaves sex and I'm game if you are...
          > >
          > i for one prefer it from discussing war or politics ...
          unfortunately
          > sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it?
          > right now not any book that comes to my mind ...
          >
          > best,
          >
          > alek
          >
          > --
          > The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay

          I'm trying to think of one and the best I can do is Red Mars, there
          was some sex(or was it just talk about sex?)in that. I may get
          shelled on this suggestion however, because I think Ignacio mentioned
          to me that Red Mars isn't really considered hard SF by the pros.
          Spider, not very versed in Hard SF
        • Aleksander Slominski
          ... it looked very hard to me in more than two meanings (hmm bad pun?) anyway there is one author that I can recall now and that I read recently - John
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 1, 2006
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            spider38ss wrote:
            > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, Aleksander Slominski
            > <aslom@...> wrote:
            >
            >> membi_99 wrote:
            >>
            >>> I've no objection to discussing politics and science fiction..I
            >>>
            > just
            >
            >>> don't want to be harangued about present government conspiracy
            >>> theories ad nauseum.
            >>>
            >>> There are three things I think the human race can't discuss
            >>> sensibly,two of which are the daily fare on the daily news here
            >>>
            > in the
            >
            >>> UK.So when you cross of religion and politics that only leaves the
            >>> third one.Now that leaves sex and I'm game if you are...
            >>>
            >>>
            >> i for one prefer it from discussing war or politics ...
            >>
            > unfortunately
            >
            >> sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it?
            >> right now not any book that comes to my mind ...
            >>
            >> best,
            >>
            >> alek
            >>
            >> --
            >> The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
            >>
            >
            > I'm trying to think of one and the best I can do is Red Mars, there
            > was some sex(or was it just talk about sex?)in that. I may get
            > shelled on this suggestion however, because I think Ignacio mentioned
            > to me that Red Mars isn't really considered hard SF by the pros.
            > Spider, not very versed in Hard SF
            >
            it looked very "hard" to me in more than two meanings (hmm bad pun?)

            anyway there is one author that I can recall now and that I read
            recently - John Varley. when he wrote about future of eight worlds that
            was pretty classic hard SF (especially some short stories) and lot of it
            was about how society changed in course of cataclysmic event and old
            models for family/religion bounds disappeared replaced by new ones
            fitting better a new reality and as consequence sex in any form became
            much less of a tabu and more casual (Persistence of Vision and Ophiuchi
            Hotline are those that I read - both excellent and there is more in
            eight worlds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Worlds#Bibliography )

            <rambling> somehow writing about wars, murders, and extreme violence in
            periled future is the easiest way to expose ideas that satisfy (hard) SF
            fans - that path is rarely rarely strayed even though it may provide
            better way to show ideas in work and make them more connected - better
            way to do make them "instant" classics or at least memorable ...</rambling>

            best,

            alek

            --
            The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
          • spider38ss
            ... that ... of it ... became ... Ophiuchi ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Worlds#Bibliography ) ... violence in ... (hard) SF ... better ... memorable
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 2, 2006
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              --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, Aleksander Slominski
              <aslom@...> wrote:
              >
              > it looked very "hard" to me in more than two meanings (hmm bad pun?)
              >
              > anyway there is one author that I can recall now and that I read
              > recently - John Varley. when he wrote about future of eight worlds
              that
              > was pretty classic hard SF (especially some short stories) and lot
              of it
              > was about how society changed in course of cataclysmic event and old
              > models for family/religion bounds disappeared replaced by new ones
              > fitting better a new reality and as consequence sex in any form
              became
              > much less of a tabu and more casual (Persistence of Vision and
              Ophiuchi
              > Hotline are those that I read - both excellent and there is more in
              > eight worlds
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Worlds#Bibliography )
              >
              > <rambling> somehow writing about wars, murders, and extreme
              violence in
              > periled future is the easiest way to expose ideas that satisfy
              (hard) SF
              > fans - that path is rarely rarely strayed even though it may provide
              > better way to show ideas in work and make them more connected -
              better
              > way to do make them "instant" classics or at least
              memorable ...</rambling>
              >
              > best,
              >
              > alek
              >
              > --
              > The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay

              All that I can come up with regarding Hard SF and sex (and that I've
              read) is THE GODS THEMSELVES. "Hard"ly what I'd call titillating!
              Spider
            • cherylllr
              from his page-a-day calendar, June 8, 2001: Given that science fiction s early days were primarily a boy s club, it s not surprising that sex received little
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 21, 2006
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                from his page-a-day calendar, June 8, 2001:

                Given that science fiction's early days were primarily a boy's club,
                it's not surprising that sex received little serious treatment beofre
                the 1960s (brazen pulpcovers don't count). As the field matured and
                general attitudes became less puritanical, so did the handling of the
                subject. A seminal work ws Philip Jose Farmer's 1961 'The Lovers.'
                By the seventies, James Tiptree, Jr, who often savagely examined the
                skewings of the sexual impulse in her work,and John Varley, who
                painted polymorphouse eroticism with broader strokes, dazzle, and
                schmalz, attained prominence. Many critics consider J.G.
                Ballard's 'Crush' (1973), in which he interweaves images of technology
                and sex to comment on the alienation of technological society, the
                most distinguished example of "pornographic" science
                fiction. "Alternative" sexuality, including homosexuality,
                bisexuality, and pansexuality, are explored in such works as Thomas
                Disch's '334 (1972) and Samuel R. Delaney's novels 'Dhalgren' (1975
                and 'Triton' (1976). In Joanna Russ's fiery polemic 'The Female Man
                (1975), the author offers up workable societies where men will be
                redundant.

                Cheryl
                any typos mine not Clarke's :)

                --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, Aleksander Slominski
                <aslom@...> wrote:

                > sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it?
                > right now not any book that comes to my mind ...
              • Aleus Mundi
                Artie Clarke is not a Hard SF author, those who write under his pen name are. ... -- The Transmundial rules all [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 21, 2006
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                  Artie Clarke is not a Hard SF author, those who write under his pen name
                  are.

                  On 11/21/06, cherylllr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  >
                  > from his page-a-day calendar, June 8, 2001:
                  >
                  > Given that science fiction's early days were primarily a boy's club,
                  > it's not surprising that sex received little serious treatment beofre
                  > the 1960s (brazen pulpcovers don't count). As the field matured and
                  > general attitudes became less puritanical, so did the handling of the
                  > subject. A seminal work ws Philip Jose Farmer's 1961 'The Lovers.'
                  > By the seventies, James Tiptree, Jr, who often savagely examined the
                  > skewings of the sexual impulse in her work,and John Varley, who
                  > painted polymorphouse eroticism with broader strokes, dazzle, and
                  > schmalz, attained prominence. Many critics consider J.G.
                  > Ballard's 'Crush' (1973), in which he interweaves images of technology
                  > and sex to comment on the alienation of technological society, the
                  > most distinguished example of "pornographic" science
                  > fiction. "Alternative" sexuality, including homosexuality,
                  > bisexuality, and pansexuality, are explored in such works as Thomas
                  > Disch's '334 (1972) and Samuel R. Delaney's novels 'Dhalgren' (1975
                  > and 'Triton' (1976). In Joanna Russ's fiery polemic 'The Female Man
                  > (1975), the author offers up workable societies where men will be
                  > redundant.
                  >
                  > Cheryl
                  > any typos mine not Clarke's :)
                  >
                  > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Aleksander Slominski
                  > <aslom@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > sex is like one of the last things on Hard SF authors mind or is it?
                  > > right now not any book that comes to my mind ...
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  The Transmundial rules all


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • raybell_scot
                  ... Hmmm... not sure that being a boy s club really stopped the serious treatment . I think it was far more simple, i.e. before the 1960s, if you wrote
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
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                    --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, cherylllr <no_reply@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Given that science fiction's early days were primarily a boy's club,
                    > it's not surprising that sex received little serious treatment beofre
                    > the 1960s (brazen pulpcovers don't count).

                    Hmmm... not sure that being a "boy's club" really stopped the "serious
                    treatment". I think it was far more simple, i.e. before the 1960s, if
                    you wrote about sex you were less likely to be read, let alone to sell,
                    on a mainstream market, and would have risked censorship in many
                    places. Not to mention the fact that serious (as opposed to pulp)
                    science fiction has often been written by scientists, nerds, and the
                    type of people who we don't exactly associate with high sexuality of
                    any kind!
                  • hectopede
                    ... name ... technology ... Ballard s Crush was a good one ;) Actually, Crash . His The Unlimited Dream Company is highly erotic. The most repetitive
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 4, 2006
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                      --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                      <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Artie Clarke is not a Hard SF author, those who write under his pen
                      name
                      > are.
                      >
                      > On 11/21/06, cherylllr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      > > Many critics consider J.G.
                      > > Ballard's 'Crush' (1973), in which he interweaves images of
                      technology
                      > > and sex to comment on the alienation of technological society, the
                      > > most distinguished example of "pornographic" science
                      > > fiction.

                      Ballard's "Crush" was a good one ;) Actually, "Crash". His "The
                      Unlimited Dream Company" is highly erotic. The most repetitive thing
                      he has written, no wonder. Most Ballard's characters are a bit like
                      Borat, they love sex and keep getting "swollen" all the time.

                      I can't agree that Arhtur C. Clarke is soft SF. How define hard SF? I
                      thought that the distance from real science makes SF hard: the closer
                      the harder. Of all the writers Arthur C. Clarke's predictions in
                      science and technology are the closest to reality. How can one be
                      more hard in SF?

                      Andri
                    • Aleus Mundi
                      Don t forget all characters in Ballard novels are called from or have an uncanny similarity to the *real* Ballard... ... -- The Transmundial rules all
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 4, 2006
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                        Don't forget all characters in Ballard novels are called from or have an
                        uncanny similarity to the *real* Ballard...

                        On 12/4/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Aleus Mundi"
                        > <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Artie Clarke is not a Hard SF author, those who write under his pen
                        > name
                        > > are.
                        > >
                        > > On 11/21/06, cherylllr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com<no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > > Many critics consider J.G.
                        > > > Ballard's 'Crush' (1973), in which he interweaves images of
                        > technology
                        > > > and sex to comment on the alienation of technological society, the
                        > > > most distinguished example of "pornographic" science
                        > > > fiction.
                        >
                        > Ballard's "Crush" was a good one ;) Actually, "Crash". His "The
                        > Unlimited Dream Company" is highly erotic. The most repetitive thing
                        > he has written, no wonder. Most Ballard's characters are a bit like
                        > Borat, they love sex and keep getting "swollen" all the time.
                        >
                        > I can't agree that Arhtur C. Clarke is soft SF. How define hard SF? I
                        > thought that the distance from real science makes SF hard: the closer
                        > the harder. Of all the writers Arthur C. Clarke's predictions in
                        > science and technology are the closest to reality. How can one be
                        > more hard in SF?
                        >
                        > Andri
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        The Transmundial rules all


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • hectopede
                        ... an ... Alright, some of Ballard s work is autobiographic :) Andri
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 5, 2006
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                          --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                          <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Don't forget all characters in Ballard novels are called from or have
                          an
                          > uncanny similarity to the *real* Ballard...

                          Alright, some of Ballard's work is autobiographic :)

                          Andri
                        • raybell_scot
                          ... Plus, he has been in long contact with the world of science fact in some way or other. I believe he devised the idea of geostationary and communication
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 8, 2006
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                            --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, hectopede
                            > I can't agree that Arhtur C. Clarke is soft SF. How define hard SF? I
                            > thought that the distance from real science makes SF hard: the closer
                            > the harder. Of all the writers Arthur C. Clarke's predictions in
                            > science and technology are the closest to reality. How can one be
                            > more hard in SF?

                            Plus, he has been in long contact with the world of science fact in
                            some way or other.

                            I believe he devised the idea of geostationary and communication
                            satellites, surely one of the most revolutionary concepts of our time,
                            and partly why we can regularly watch programmes from other continents.
                          • hectopede
                            ... SF? I ... closer ... time, ... continents. ... Didn t he also patent the concept leaving it free to use? Anyway, of two concepts of the space future, the
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 8, 2006
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                              --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "raybell_scot"
                              <raybell_scot@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, hectopede
                              > > I can't agree that Arhtur C. Clarke is soft SF. How define hard
                              SF? I
                              > > thought that the distance from real science makes SF hard: the
                              closer
                              > > the harder. Of all the writers Arthur C. Clarke's predictions in
                              > > science and technology are the closest to reality. How can one be
                              > > more hard in SF?
                              >
                              > Plus, he has been in long contact with the world of science fact in
                              > some way or other.
                              >
                              > I believe he devised the idea of geostationary and communication
                              > satellites, surely one of the most revolutionary concepts of our
                              time,
                              > and partly why we can regularly watch programmes from other
                              continents.
                              >

                              Didn't he also patent the concept leaving it free to use? Anyway, of
                              two concepts of the space future, the star wars and
                              communication/entertainment, the second, Clarke's one proved to be
                              correct.

                              There are things that have become everyday practice I cannot imagine
                              I could guess some years ago. Like exchanging signatures with a taxi
                              driver when paying after a trip. Does anybody remember any sci-fi
                              writer or filmmaker depecting such a routine in their work? We once
                              discussed what predictions of sci-fi turned out to be correct. What
                              are the changes that were not predicted?

                              Andri
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