Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Kansas vote focuses on evolution

Expand Messages
  • derhexer@aol.com
    URL to an article in MSNBC _http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/_ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/) Looks like the Kansas Board of Education members who
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      URL to an article in MSNBC
      _http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/_
      (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/)

      Looks like the Kansas Board of Education members who approved standards that
      call evolution into question are running the risk of losing their jobs. Is
      this a great country or not?

      First few paragraphs
      "
      TOPEKA, Kan. - Kansas Board of Education members who approved new classroom
      standards that call evolution into question faced a counterattack at the
      polls Tuesday from Darwin’s defenders.
      Five of the 10 seats on the board were up for election in the primary, the
      latest skirmish in a seesawing battle between faith and science that has
      opened Kansas up to international ridicule.
      Last November, the Board of Education’s 6-to-4 conservative Republican
      majority rewrote testing standards for public schools to incorporate language
      supported by advocates of intelligent design, which holds that life is so complex
      it must have been created by some kind of higher power. The new standards
      say that some aspects of evolution are contradicted by scientific evidence."
      Chris


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Aleus Mundi
      It s a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht the NRA after all 8) ... -- The Transmundial rules all [Non-text portions of this message have
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht the NRA after
        all 8)

        On 8/1/06, derhexer@... <derhexer@...> wrote:
        >
        > URL to an article in MSNBC
        > _http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/_
        > (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14137751/)
        >
        > Looks like the Kansas Board of Education members who approved standards
        > that
        > call evolution into question are running the risk of losing their jobs. Is
        >
        > this a great country or not?
        >
        > First few paragraphs
        > "
        > TOPEKA, Kan. - Kansas Board of Education members who approved new
        > classroom
        > standards that call evolution into question faced a counterattack at the
        > polls Tuesday from Darwin's defenders.
        > Five of the 10 seats on the board were up for election in the primary, the
        >
        > latest skirmish in a seesawing battle between faith and science that has
        > opened Kansas up to international ridicule.
        > Last November, the Board of Education's 6-to-4 conservative Republican
        > majority rewrote testing standards for public schools to incorporate
        > language
        > supported by advocates of intelligent design, which holds that life is so
        > complex
        > it must have been created by some kind of higher power. The new standards
        > say that some aspects of evolution are contradicted by scientific
        > evidence."
        > Chris
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        The Transmundial rules all


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ignacio Viglizzo
        ... Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill people, evolution does! ;-) I´m
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@...> wrote:
          > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht the NRA after
          > all 8)

          Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
          logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill people,
          evolution does! ;-)

          I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with the group
          e-mail, polls and etc.
          Best,

          Ignacio
        • Aleus Mundi
          Don t forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill people ;=P ... -- The Transmundial rules all [Non-text portions of this message have been
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Don't forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill people ;=P

            On 8/2/06, Ignacio Viglizzo <viglizzo@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@... <novovacuum%40gmail.com>>
            > wrote:
            > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht the NRA
            > after
            > > all 8)
            >
            > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
            > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill people,
            > evolution does! ;-)
            >
            > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with the group
            > e-mail, polls and etc.
            > Best,
            >
            > Ignacio
            >
            >
            >



            --
            The Transmundial rules all


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • hectopede
            Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping angels? :) Andri ... people ;=P ... 40gmail.com ... the NRA ... group
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping
              angels? :)

              Andri

              --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
              <novovacuum@...> wrote:
              >
              > Don't forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill
              people ;=P
              >
              > On 8/2/06, Ignacio Viglizzo <viglizzo@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@... <novovacuum%
              40gmail.com>>
              > > wrote:
              > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht
              the NRA
              > > after
              > > > all 8)
              > >
              > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
              > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill people,
              > > evolution does! ;-)
              > >
              > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with the
              group
              > > e-mail, polls and etc.
              > > Best,
              > >
              > > Ignacio
            • Aleus Mundi
              Flattened angels ? Since when you re a theocide hec? ... -- The Transmundial rules all [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 2, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?

                On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                >
                > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping
                > angels? :)
                >
                > Andri
                >
                > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "Aleus Mundi"
                >
                > <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Don't forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill
                > people ;=P
                > >
                > > On 8/2/06, Ignacio Viglizzo <viglizzo@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@... <novovacuum%
                > 40gmail.com>>
                >
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht
                > the NRA
                > > > after
                > > > > all 8)
                > > >
                > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
                > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill people,
                > > > evolution does! ;-)
                > > >
                > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with the
                > group
                > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                > > > Best,
                > > >
                > > > Ignacio
                >
                >
                >



                --
                The Transmundial rules all


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • sabership2525
                Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the mid- 1980 s, many of the
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the
                  exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the mid-
                  1980's, many of the challenges has come from degreed scientists in
                  Geology, Paleontology, Biology, and other 'logys, in research and
                  university positions, who may or may not have a faith position.

                  True, each individual's challenges are narrow in scope, directed
                  at only one or two foundational principles, but taken as a whole
                  almost every foundational principle has been called into question
                  since the 80's, and the evolution-oriented textbooks have changed
                  considerably in the intervening years.

                  To Google "Challenges to Evolution" brings up a curious variety of
                  20,000 hits. Most of the hits seem to represent hardened pockets of
                  the scientific community opposing "Challenges to Evolution". To me,
                  any challenge is an opportunity to discover more, not less. It
                  reminds me of the way the established church fought the "Challenges
                  to Ptolemy" of Copernicus and Galileo and others. (I've just listened
                  to an audiobook about that very similarily)

                  Like the evolution textbooks of 2006 are considerably different that
                  those of 1986, my prediction is that in 50 years, the Evolutionary
                  Model will look considerably different than it does now; and that the
                  mounting evidence that demonstrates the great complexity of organic
                  life at both the macro and micro level, will not be as easily
                  dismissed as it is now -- such new evidence coming primarily from
                  within a more open-minded scientific community.

                  And who are more open-minded than we sf aficianados?

                  Larry

                  --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                  <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?
                  >
                  > On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping
                  > > angels? :)
                  > >
                  > > Andri
                  > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@ <novovacuum%
                  > > 40gmail.com>>
                  > >
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht
                  > > the NRA
                  > > > > after
                  > > > > > all 8)
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
                  > > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill
                  people,
                  > > > > evolution does! ;-)
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with
                  the
                  > > group
                  > > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                  > > > > Best,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Ignacio
                • hectopede
                  Flapping, with kind of winglets. In so many sci-fi stories people evolve into birdlike creatures who sometimes have some psychic abilities. Andri ...
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Flapping, with kind of winglets. In so many sci-fi stories people
                    evolve into birdlike creatures who sometimes have some psychic
                    abilities.

                    Andri

                    --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                    <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?
                    >
                    > On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping
                    > > angels? :)
                    > >
                    > > Andri
                    > >
                    > > --- In
                    sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%
                    40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > > "Aleus Mundi"
                    > >
                    > > <novovacuum@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Don't forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill
                    > > people ;=P
                    > > >
                    > > > On 8/2/06, Ignacio Viglizzo <viglizzo@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@ <novovacuum%
                    > > 40gmail.com>>
                    > >
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht
                    > > the NRA
                    > > > > after
                    > > > > > all 8)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
                    > > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill
                    people,
                    > > > > evolution does! ;-)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with
                    the
                    > > group
                    > > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                    > > > > Best,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Ignacio
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > The Transmundial rules all
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Aleus Mundi
                    Yeah, there s some of that in Last and Fist Men of Ollie Stapledon and a parallel evolution is seen in the Riim of The Voyage of the Space Beagle by Alfie
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yeah, there's some of that in "Last and Fist Men" of Ollie Stapledon and a
                      parallel evolution is seen in the Riim of "The Voyage of the Space Beagle"
                      by Alfie Van Vogt.

                      On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      >
                      > Flapping, with kind of winglets. In so many sci-fi stories people
                      > evolve into birdlike creatures who sometimes have some psychic
                      > abilities.
                      >
                      > Andri
                      >
                      > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > "Aleus Mundi"
                      > <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?
                      > >
                      > > On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com<no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little flapping
                      > > > angels? :)
                      > > >
                      > > > Andri
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In
                      > sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > <sciencefictionclassics%
                      > 40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > > > "Aleus Mundi"
                      > > >
                      > > > <novovacuum@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Don't forget Ignacio that over all things, DArwin Awards kill
                      > > > people ;=P
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On 8/2/06, Ignacio Viglizzo <viglizzo@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@ <novovacuum%
                      > > > 40gmail.com>>
                      > > >
                      > > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is wiht
                      > > > the NRA
                      > > > > > after
                      > > > > > > all 8)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is not
                      > > > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill
                      > people,
                      > > > > > evolution does! ;-)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with
                      > the
                      > > > group
                      > > > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                      > > > > > Best,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Ignacio
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > The Transmundial rules all
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      The Transmundial rules all


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • hectopede
                      These are different issues: how science explains evolution and what people believe is the true origin. Science that proves gospel or some other holy text
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        These are different issues: how science explains evolution and what
                        people believe is the true origin. Science that "proves" gospel or
                        some other holy text cannot be falsified. Its not science but
                        something reactionary.

                        Scientists argue with each other about different origins of life and
                        life forms. Some of them might be inspired by their religion like
                        Kepler was inspired by the Sun worshippers. But in one's scientific
                        discourse he/she has to follow scientific criteria of verification
                        and falsification.

                        Voting in local government or some school board is not a scientific
                        method of establishing truth.

                        Darwinism is NOT the only theory of evolution. Already Carl Ernst von
                        Baer created an alternative theory of evolution that complements
                        Darwin's notions.

                        Andri

                        --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "sabership2525"
                        <clgott@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the
                        > exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the mid-
                        > 1980's, many of the challenges has come from degreed scientists in
                        > Geology, Paleontology, Biology, and other 'logys, in research and
                        > university positions, who may or may not have a faith position.
                        >
                        > True, each individual's challenges are narrow in scope, directed
                        > at only one or two foundational principles, but taken as a whole
                        > almost every foundational principle has been called into question
                        > since the 80's, and the evolution-oriented textbooks have changed
                        > considerably in the intervening years.
                        >
                        > To Google "Challenges to Evolution" brings up a curious variety of
                        > 20,000 hits. Most of the hits seem to represent hardened pockets of
                        > the scientific community opposing "Challenges to Evolution". To me,
                        > any challenge is an opportunity to discover more, not less. It
                        > reminds me of the way the established church fought the "Challenges
                        > to Ptolemy" of Copernicus and Galileo and others. (I've just
                        listened
                        > to an audiobook about that very similarily)
                        >
                        > Like the evolution textbooks of 2006 are considerably different
                        that
                        > those of 1986, my prediction is that in 50 years, the Evolutionary
                        > Model will look considerably different than it does now; and that
                        the
                        > mounting evidence that demonstrates the great complexity of organic
                        > life at both the macro and micro level, will not be as easily
                        > dismissed as it is now -- such new evidence coming primarily from
                        > within a more open-minded scientific community.
                        >
                        > And who are more open-minded than we sf aficianados?
                        >
                        > Larry
                        >
                        > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                        > <novovacuum@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?
                        > >
                        > > On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little
                        flapping
                        > > > angels? :)
                        > > >
                        > > > Andri
                        > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@ <novovacuum%
                        > > > 40gmail.com>>
                        > > >
                        > > > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is
                        wiht
                        > > > the NRA
                        > > > > > after
                        > > > > > > all 8)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is
                        not
                        > > > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill
                        > people,
                        > > > > > evolution does! ;-)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with
                        > the
                        > > > group
                        > > > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                        > > > > > Best,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Ignacio
                        >
                      • Aleus Mundi
                        Yeah, SF s courage (not Xena s) will change the world 8) ... -- The Transmundial rules all [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yeah, SF's courage (not Xena's) will change the world 8)

                          On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          >
                          > These are different issues: how science explains evolution and what
                          > people believe is the true origin. Science that "proves" gospel or
                          > some other holy text cannot be falsified. Its not science but
                          > something reactionary.
                          >
                          > Scientists argue with each other about different origins of life and
                          > life forms. Some of them might be inspired by their religion like
                          > Kepler was inspired by the Sun worshippers. But in one's scientific
                          > discourse he/she has to follow scientific criteria of verification
                          > and falsification.
                          >
                          > Voting in local government or some school board is not a scientific
                          > method of establishing truth.
                          >
                          > Darwinism is NOT the only theory of evolution. Already Carl Ernst von
                          > Baer created an alternative theory of evolution that complements
                          > Darwin's notions.
                          >
                          > Andri
                          >
                          > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "sabership2525"
                          > <clgott@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the
                          > > exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the mid-
                          > > 1980's, many of the challenges has come from degreed scientists in
                          > > Geology, Paleontology, Biology, and other 'logys, in research and
                          > > university positions, who may or may not have a faith position.
                          > >
                          > > True, each individual's challenges are narrow in scope, directed
                          > > at only one or two foundational principles, but taken as a whole
                          > > almost every foundational principle has been called into question
                          > > since the 80's, and the evolution-oriented textbooks have changed
                          > > considerably in the intervening years.
                          > >
                          > > To Google "Challenges to Evolution" brings up a curious variety of
                          > > 20,000 hits. Most of the hits seem to represent hardened pockets of
                          > > the scientific community opposing "Challenges to Evolution". To me,
                          > > any challenge is an opportunity to discover more, not less. It
                          > > reminds me of the way the established church fought the "Challenges
                          > > to Ptolemy" of Copernicus and Galileo and others. (I've just
                          > listened
                          > > to an audiobook about that very similarily)
                          > >
                          > > Like the evolution textbooks of 2006 are considerably different
                          > that
                          > > those of 1986, my prediction is that in 50 years, the Evolutionary
                          > > Model will look considerably different than it does now; and that
                          > the
                          > > mounting evidence that demonstrates the great complexity of organic
                          > > life at both the macro and micro level, will not be as easily
                          > > dismissed as it is now -- such new evidence coming primarily from
                          > > within a more open-minded scientific community.
                          > >
                          > > And who are more open-minded than we sf aficianados?
                          > >
                          > > Larry
                          >
                          > >
                          > > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "Aleus Mundi"
                          > > <novovacuum@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > "Flattened angels"? Since when you're a theocide hec?
                          > > >
                          > > > On 8/2/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com<no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Are you talking about the evolution of men into little
                          > flapping
                          > > > > angels? :)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Andri
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > On 8/2/06, Aleus Mundi <novovacuum@ <novovacuum%
                          > > > > 40gmail.com>>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > It's a true miracle! Perhaps not everybody in Kansas is
                          > wiht
                          > > > > the NRA
                          > > > > > > after
                          > > > > > > > all 8)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Maybe there´s a statistical correlation, but one thing is
                          > not
                          > > > > > > logically tied to the other. After all, guns don´t kill
                          > > people,
                          > > > > > > evolution does! ;-)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I´m back from one week of vacation, I need to catch up with
                          > > the
                          > > > > group
                          > > > > > > e-mail, polls and etc.
                          > > > > > > Best,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Ignacio
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          The Transmundial rules all


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • hectopede
                          What do you think of Stapledon s books? :) Andri ... Stapledon and a ... Beagle ... people
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            What do you think of Stapledon's books? :)

                            Andri

                            --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                            <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yeah, there's some of that in "Last and Fist Men" of Ollie
                            Stapledon and a
                            > parallel evolution is seen in the Riim of "The Voyage of the Space
                            Beagle"
                            > by Alfie Van Vogt.
                            >
                            > On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Flapping, with kind of winglets. In so many sci-fi stories
                            people
                            > > evolve into birdlike creatures who sometimes have some psychic
                            > > abilities.
                            > >
                            > > Andri
                            > >
                          • hectopede
                            Do you mean Xena is a product on evolution? :D Andri ... what ... and ... scientific ... scientific ... von ...
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Do you mean Xena is a product on evolution? :D

                              Andri

                              --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                              <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yeah, SF's courage (not Xena's) will change the world 8)
                              >
                              > On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > These are different issues: how science explains evolution and
                              what
                              > > people believe is the true origin. Science that "proves" gospel or
                              > > some other holy text cannot be falsified. Its not science but
                              > > something reactionary.
                              > >
                              > > Scientists argue with each other about different origins of life
                              and
                              > > life forms. Some of them might be inspired by their religion like
                              > > Kepler was inspired by the Sun worshippers. But in one's
                              scientific
                              > > discourse he/she has to follow scientific criteria of verification
                              > > and falsification.
                              > >
                              > > Voting in local government or some school board is not a
                              scientific
                              > > method of establishing truth.
                              > >
                              > > Darwinism is NOT the only theory of evolution. Already Carl Ernst
                              von
                              > > Baer created an alternative theory of evolution that complements
                              > > Darwin's notions.
                              > >
                              > > Andri
                              > >
                              > > --- In
                              sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%
                              40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > "sabership2525"
                              > > <clgott@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the
                              > > > exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the
                              mid-
                              > > > 1980's, many of the challenges has come from degreed scientists
                              in
                              > > > Geology, Paleontology, Biology, and other 'logys, in research
                              and
                              > > > university positions, who may or may not have a faith position.
                              > > >
                              > > > True, each individual's challenges are narrow in scope, directed
                              > > > at only one or two foundational principles, but taken as a whole
                              > > > almost every foundational principle has been called into
                              question
                              > > > since the 80's, and the evolution-oriented textbooks have
                              changed
                              > > > considerably in the intervening years.
                              > > >
                              > > > To Google "Challenges to Evolution" brings up a curious variety
                              of
                              > > > 20,000 hits. Most of the hits seem to represent hardened
                              pockets of
                              > > > the scientific community opposing "Challenges to Evolution". To
                              me,
                              > > > any challenge is an opportunity to discover more, not less. It
                              > > > reminds me of the way the established church fought
                              the "Challenges
                              > > > to Ptolemy" of Copernicus and Galileo and others. (I've just
                              > > listened
                              > > > to an audiobook about that very similarily)
                              > > >
                              > > > Like the evolution textbooks of 2006 are considerably different
                              > > that
                              > > > those of 1986, my prediction is that in 50 years, the
                              Evolutionary
                              > > > Model will look considerably different than it does now; and
                              that
                              > > the
                              > > > mounting evidence that demonstrates the great complexity of
                              organic
                              > > > life at both the macro and micro level, will not be as easily
                              > > > dismissed as it is now -- such new evidence coming primarily
                              from
                              > > > within a more open-minded scientific community.
                              > > >
                              > > > And who are more open-minded than we sf aficianados?
                              > > >
                              > > > Larry
                            • Aleus Mundi
                              First, Stapledon is cool, he s a sort of retro-Blish, retro-Reynolds, retro-Stross, retro-Wright and he s cool. Second, Xena is a product of historical
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                First, Stapledon is cool, he's a sort of retro-Blish, retro-Reynolds,
                                retro-Stross, retro-Wright and he's cool. Second, Xena is a product of
                                historical IN-volution, as more advanced the human being becomes, the axiom
                                implifies he becomes more historically incorrect to the point to do lesbo
                                shows which retroactively write history at levels Mao Tse Tung, Augusto
                                Pinochet or Pot Pot would wish for themselves. They should point a
                                disclaimer for Xenites saying "nothing of this is true"



                                On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                >
                                > Do you mean Xena is a product on evolution? :D
                                >
                                > Andri
                                >
                                > --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > "Aleus Mundi"
                                >
                                > <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Yeah, SF's courage (not Xena's) will change the world 8)
                                > >
                                > > On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com<no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > These are different issues: how science explains evolution and
                                > what
                                > > > people believe is the true origin. Science that "proves" gospel or
                                > > > some other holy text cannot be falsified. Its not science but
                                > > > something reactionary.
                                > > >
                                > > > Scientists argue with each other about different origins of life
                                > and
                                > > > life forms. Some of them might be inspired by their religion like
                                > > > Kepler was inspired by the Sun worshippers. But in one's
                                > scientific
                                > > > discourse he/she has to follow scientific criteria of verification
                                > > > and falsification.
                                > > >
                                > > > Voting in local government or some school board is not a
                                > scientific
                                > > > method of establishing truth.
                                > > >
                                > > > Darwinism is NOT the only theory of evolution. Already Carl Ernst
                                > von
                                > > > Baer created an alternative theory of evolution that complements
                                > > > Darwin's notions.
                                > > >
                                > > > Andri
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In
                                > sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com<sciencefictionclassics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > <sciencefictionclassics%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                >
                                > > > "sabership2525"
                                > > > <clgott@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Questioning various aspects of the Evolutionary Model is not the
                                > > > > exclusive domain of those holding faith positions. Since the
                                > mid-
                                > > > > 1980's, many of the challenges has come from degreed scientists
                                > in
                                > > > > Geology, Paleontology, Biology, and other 'logys, in research
                                > and
                                > > > > university positions, who may or may not have a faith position.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > True, each individual's challenges are narrow in scope, directed
                                > > > > at only one or two foundational principles, but taken as a whole
                                > > > > almost every foundational principle has been called into
                                > question
                                > > > > since the 80's, and the evolution-oriented textbooks have
                                > changed
                                > > > > considerably in the intervening years.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > To Google "Challenges to Evolution" brings up a curious variety
                                > of
                                > > > > 20,000 hits. Most of the hits seem to represent hardened
                                > pockets of
                                > > > > the scientific community opposing "Challenges to Evolution". To
                                > me,
                                > > > > any challenge is an opportunity to discover more, not less. It
                                > > > > reminds me of the way the established church fought
                                > the "Challenges
                                > > > > to Ptolemy" of Copernicus and Galileo and others. (I've just
                                > > > listened
                                > > > > to an audiobook about that very similarily)
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Like the evolution textbooks of 2006 are considerably different
                                > > > that
                                > > > > those of 1986, my prediction is that in 50 years, the
                                > Evolutionary
                                > > > > Model will look considerably different than it does now; and
                                > that
                                > > > the
                                > > > > mounting evidence that demonstrates the great complexity of
                                > organic
                                > > > > life at both the macro and micro level, will not be as easily
                                > > > > dismissed as it is now -- such new evidence coming primarily
                                > from
                                > > > > within a more open-minded scientific community.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > And who are more open-minded than we sf aficianados?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Larry
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                The Transmundial rules all


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • hectopede
                                I agree! I d just add that Stapledon was not able to organise his abundant ideas on paper, or in other words, he couldn t write. His writing is so bad that it
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 12, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I agree! I'd just add that Stapledon was not able to organise his
                                  abundant ideas on paper, or in other words, he couldn't write. His
                                  writing is so bad that it is good :) His academic confidence and
                                  inability to see any need to edit his own texts make him cool per se.
                                  His books are as surreal as a mad scientist's bad dreams.

                                  Andri

                                  --- In sciencefictionclassics@yahoogroups.com, "Aleus Mundi"
                                  <novovacuum@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > First, Stapledon is cool, he's a sort of retro-Blish, retro-
                                  Reynolds,
                                  > retro-Stross, retro-Wright and he's cool. Second, Xena is a product
                                  of
                                  > historical IN-volution, as more advanced the human being becomes,
                                  the axiom
                                  > implifies he becomes more historically incorrect to the point to do
                                  lesbo
                                  > shows which retroactively write history at levels Mao Tse Tung,
                                  Augusto
                                  > Pinochet or Pot Pot would wish for themselves. They should point a
                                  > disclaimer for Xenites saying "nothing of this is true"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 8/12/06, hectopede <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Do you mean Xena is a product on evolution? :D
                                  > >
                                  > > Andri
                                  > >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.