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Re: [sceptredisle] Re: Women in the Tudor Dynasty

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  • Bill Barber
    You re right, Stephen. I remember your post. ... You re right, Stephen. I remember your post. ... writers, ... viewers -- ... himself a ... the ... birth ...
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 17, 2007
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      You're right, Stephen. I remember your post.

      Stephen Lark wrote:

      --- In sceptredisle@ yahoogroups. com, Bill Barber <bbarber@... > wrote:
      >
      > *Women in the Tudor Dynasty*
      > From Jone Johnson Lewis,
      > Your Guide to Women's History.
      > About.com
      > http://womenshistor y.about.com/ od/tudor/ a/tudor_women. htm
      > Edited: Bill Barber
      >
      > *Tudor Women Ancestors*
      > Would Henry VIII's life be nearly as interesting to historians,
      writers,
      > screenwriters, and television producers -- and to readers and
      viewers --
      > without all these fascinating female connections?
      >
      > While Henry VIII is the epitome of the Tudor dynasty, and is
      himself a
      > fascinating figure of history, women play a very important part in
      the
      > history of the Tudors of England. The simple fact that women gave
      birth
      > to heirs to the throne gave them a central role; some Tudor women
      were
      > more active in shaping their role in history than others.
      >
      > Henry VIII's marital history holds the fascination of historians
      and
      > historical fiction writers alike. At the root of this marital
      history is
      > a very real concern of Henry's: having a male heir for the throne.
      He
      > was acutely aware of the vulnerability of having only daughters or
      only
      > one son.
      >
      > Some of the history of which he was certainly keenly aware:
      >
      > * Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII and Elizabeth of
      York.
      > His older brother, Arthur, died before their father did, thus
      > leaving Henry as his father's heir. When Arthur died,
      Elizabeth of
      > York was still in her 30s, and in the grand tradition of
      the "heir
      > and a spare," got pregnant again -- and died of complications
      of
      > childbirth.
      >
      > *Henry VII*
      > http://www.cofc. edu/~mccandla/ henry-vii. jpg
      > http://tudorhistory .org/henry7/ henry7bust. jpg
      >
      > *Elizabeth of York*
      > http://www.spartacu s.schoolnet. co.uk/TUDelizabe thyork.jpg
      >
      > *Arthur Tudor*
      > http://tudorhistory .org/people/ arthur/arthur2. jpg
      >
      > * The last time there'd been only a female heir left for the
      throne,
      > years of civil war had ensued, and that female heir -- the
      Empress
      > Matilda or Maud -- was never herself crowned. Her son, Henry
      > Plantagenet (also called Henry Fitzempress, because his
      mother had
      > been married to the Holy Roman Emperor), ended that war, and,
      > married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, began a new dynasty, the
      > Plantagenets.
      >
      > *Empress Matilda
      > *http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ various/empress_ matilda.jpg
      >
      > * When Henry VIII's own father, Henry VII, established the new
      Tudor
      > dynasty. he ended decades of nasty dynastic infighting among
      the
      > York and Lancaster heirs of Edward III.
      >
      > * The Salic Law didn't apply in England -- thus, if Henry left
      > daughters, or a son who died early (as his son, Edward VI,
      did end
      > up doing), those daughters would inherit the throne -- with
      all
      > the troubles that might entail of marrying foreign kings (as
      did
      > his daughter Mary I) or remaining unmarried and leaving
      succession
      > in doubt (as did his daughter Elizabeth I).
      >
      > The dynasty of the Tudors was itself bound up in the histories of
      some
      > very interesting women who came before Henry VIII:
      >
      > * Catherine of Valois, who was wife of Henry V of England and
      mother
      > of his son, Henry VI, committed the scandalous act of secretly
      > marrying after her husband's death. She married a Welsh
      squire,
      > Owen Tudor, and through this marriage gave the Tudor dynasty
      its
      > name. Catherine of Valois was the grandmother of Henry VII and
      > great-grandmother of Henry VIII.
      >
      > *Effigy of Catherine of Valois*
      > http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ gifs7/catherinev alois1401. jpg
      >
      > *Owen Tudor*
      > http://www.hoerbuch .cc/pic/pic566_ big.jpg
      >
      > * Margaret Beaufort, Henry VII's mother, married the eldest son
      of
      > Catherine of Valois, Edmund, Earl of Richmond. Henry VII
      wisely
      > claimed his right to the throne through conquest, but also had
      > some claim to the throne through his mother Margaret's descent
      > from John of Gaunt, and Katherine Roët, known as Katherine
      > Swynford, her earlier married name, whom John married after
      his
      > children's births. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, was the
      son
      > of Edward III of England, and it is from John of Gaunt that
      the
      > Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses are descended.
      >
      > *Margaret Beaufort*
      > http://www.marileec ody.com/henry7/ beaufort2. jpg
      >
      > *Edmund Tudor*
      > http://www.mbs- brasses.co. uk/images/ BOSSTDAVIDS. gif
      >
      > *John of Gaunt*
      > http://www.castles- abbeys.co. uk/Michelham- Priory/john- of-gaunt. jpg
      >
      > *Katherine Swynford*
      > http://www.middle- ages.org. uk/images/ eleanor-of- aquitaine. jpg
      > *
      > Edward III*
      >
      http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ royal/plantagene t/gifs/edward3en gland13
      12-2.jpg
      >
      > Henry VIII also had two sisters who are important to history:
      >
      > * Margaret Tudor: queen of James IV of Scotland, she was the
      > grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots, and great-grandmother of
      > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Margaret
      > Tudor's second marriage, to Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of
      Angus,
      > made her the mother of Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox,
      who
      > was the mother of Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, one of the
      husbands
      > of Mary, Queen of Scots and the father of their son and heir,
      > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Thus,
      through
      > Henry VIII's sister's marriage comes the name of the dynasty
      that
      > succeeds the Tudors, the Stuarts (the English spelling of
      Stewart).
      >
      > *Margaret Tudor*
      >
      http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ stewart/tn_ margaret_ tudor.jpg
      >
      > *Archibald Douglas*
      > http://www.explore- parliament. net/nssMovies/ 03/0301/0301_ 01.jpg
      >
      > *Margaret Douglas*
      > http://imagesource. art.com/images/ -/Sarah-Essex/ Portrait- of-
      Margaret-Douglas- Countess- of-Lennox- from-Memoirs- of-the-Court- of-
      Queen-Elizabeth- Giclee-Print- C12066272. jpeg
      >
      > *Lord Darnley*
      >
      http://www.crimelib rary.com/ graphics/ photos/notorious _murders/ famous/l
      ord_darnley/ full-Lord- Darnley-200. jpg
      >
      > * Henry VIII's younger sister, Mary Tudor, was married at 18 to
      the
      > 52-year-old King of France, Louis XII.When Louis died, Mary
      > secretly married Henry VIII's friend, Charles Brandon, Duke of
      > Suffolk, amd they had three children. One, Lady Frances
      Brandon,
      > married Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset, and their child,
      Lady
      > Jane Grey, was briefly Queen of England in the dynastic
      squabbles
      > when Henry VIII's only male heir, Edward VI, died young --
      thus
      > fulfilling Henry VIII's dynastic nightmares. Lady Catherine
      Grey,
      > sister of Lady Jane Grey, had her own problems and briefly
      ended
      > up in the Tower of London.
      >
      > *Mary Queen of Scots*
      > http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/naziprison/ images/esca_ mary_l.jpg
      >
      > *James VI and I*
      > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Stuart, JamesI01. jpg
      >
      > *Wives of Henry VIII*
      > Henry VIII's six wives met various fates (summaried by the old
      rhyme,
      > "divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded,
      >
      > * Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Queen Isabella I of Castile
      and
      > Aragon. Catherine was first married to Henry's older brother,
      > Arthur, and married Henry after Arthur died. Catherine gave
      birth
      > several times, but her only surviving child was the future
      Mary I
      > of England.
      >
      > *Catherine of Aragon*
      > http://www.law. umkc.edu/ faculty/projects /ftrials/ more/catherine- of-
      aragon.jpg
      > *
      > Ferdinand and Isabella*
      > http://www.ignatius history.info/ 00133.jpg
      >
      > * Anne Boleyn, for whom Henry VIII divorced Catherine of
      Aragon, and
      > who gave birth first to the future Queen Elizabeth I and then
      to a
      > still-born son. Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn, had been
      Henry
      > VIII's mistress before he pursued Anne Boleyn.
      >
      > *Anne Boleyn*
      > http://englishhisto ry.net/tudor/ monarchs/ boleynmainjpg. jpg
      >
      > *Mary Boleyn*
      > http://www.geocitie s.com/boleynfami ly/mary/marybole yn.jpg
      >
      > * Jane Seymour, who gave birth to the somewhat-frail future
      Edward
      > VI, and then died of complications of childbirth. Her
      relatives,
      > the Seymours, continued to play important roles in Henry
      VIII's
      > life and reign and in that of his heirs.
      >
      > *Jane Seymour*
      > http://www.uvm. edu/~hag/ sca/tudor/ redjane.jpg
      >
      > * Anne of Cleves, briefly married to Henry in an attempt to have
      > more sons -- but he was already attracted to his next wife
      and he
      > found Anne unattractive, so he divorced her. She remained in
      > England on relatively good terms with Henry and his children
      after
      > the divorce, even being part of the coronations of both Mary
      I and
      > Elizabeth I.
      >
      > *Anne of Cleves*
      >
      http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/thumb/ 5/54/AnneCleves. jp
      g/449px-AnneCleves. jpg
      >
      > * Catherine Howard, whom Henry executed fairly quickly when he
      > realized she had misrepresented her past -- and possibly
      present
      > -- affairs, and thus was not a reliable mother of an heir.
      >
      > *Catherine Howard*
      > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Howard, Catherine02. jpg
      >
      > * Catherine Parr, by most accounts a patient, loving wife in
      Henry's
      > older age, was well-educated and a proponent of the new
      Protestant
      > religion. After Henry's death, she married Thomas Seymour, the
      > brother of Henry's late wife, Jane Seymour, and died of
      > complications of childbirth amid rumors that her husband
      poisoned
      > her in order to be free to marry the Princess Elizabeth.
      >
      > *Catherine Parr*
      > http://www.wga. hu/art/m/ master/yunk_ en/c_parr. jpg
      >
      > An interesting side note on the wives of Henry VIII: all could
      claim
      > descent as well through Edward III, the king from whom both the
      House of
      > York and House of Lancaster claimed descent, and from whom Henry
      VIII
      > was also descended.
      >
      > *Heirs of Henry VIII*
      > Henry's fears about heirs didn't come true just in his own
      lifetime.
      > None of Henry's three heirs who ruled England in their turns --
      Edward
      > VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I -- had children (nor did Lady Jane
      Grey, the
      > "nine day queen"). So the crown passed after the death of the last
      Tudor
      > monarch, Elizabeth I, to James VI of Scotland who became James I of
      England.
      >
      > *Edward VI*
      > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/EdwardVI0 8.jpg
      >
      > *Mary I*
      > http://www.nndb. com/people/ 557/000093278/ queen-mary- i-1-sized. jpg
      >
      > *Elizabeth I*
      > http://www.schoolsh istory.org. uk/Elizabeth% 20I.jpg
      >
      Bill, it isn't quite true about Henry's wives all being descended
      from Edward III. As has been shown in "another place", I have shown
      them to be descendants of Henry II and Lady Antonia Fraser claims
      them to all be descended from Edward I although i have not been able
      to verify this yet.


    • Stephen Lark
      Bill, I am going to open up a question we posed in another place. Apart from: Anne Boleyn 1536, Margaret of Salisbury 1541, Katharine Howard and Viscountess
      Message 2 of 7 , May 15, 2007
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        Bill, I am going to open up a question we posed in another place.

        Apart from: Anne Boleyn 1536, Margaret of Salisbury 1541, Katharine
        Howard and Viscountess Rochford 1542, Lady Jane Grey 1554, Mary
        Stewart 1587 and Alice, Lady Lisle 1689, were any other women
        beheaded in English history?

        --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com, Bill Barber <bbarber@...> wrote:
        >
        > You're right, Stephen. I remember your post.
        >
        > Stephen Lark wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber <bbarber@>
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > *Women in the Tudor Dynasty*
        > > > From Jone Johnson Lewis,
        > > > Your Guide to Women's History.
        > > > About.com
        > > > http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm
        > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm>
        > > > Edited: Bill Barber
        > > >
        > > > *Tudor Women Ancestors*
        > > > Would Henry VIII's life be nearly as interesting to historians,
        > > writers,
        > > > screenwriters, and television producers -- and to readers and
        > > viewers --
        > > > without all these fascinating female connections?
        > > >
        > > > While Henry VIII is the epitome of the Tudor dynasty, and is
        > > himself a
        > > > fascinating figure of history, women play a very important part
        in
        > > the
        > > > history of the Tudors of England. The simple fact that women
        gave
        > > birth
        > > > to heirs to the throne gave them a central role; some Tudor
        women
        > > were
        > > > more active in shaping their role in history than others.
        > > >
        > > > Henry VIII's marital history holds the fascination of historians
        > > and
        > > > historical fiction writers alike. At the root of this marital
        > > history is
        > > > a very real concern of Henry's: having a male heir for the
        throne.
        > > He
        > > > was acutely aware of the vulnerability of having only daughters
        or
        > > only
        > > > one son.
        > > >
        > > > Some of the history of which he was certainly keenly aware:
        > > >
        > > > * Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII and Elizabeth of
        > > York.
        > > > His older brother, Arthur, died before their father did, thus
        > > > leaving Henry as his father's heir. When Arthur died,
        > > Elizabeth of
        > > > York was still in her 30s, and in the grand tradition of
        > > the "heir
        > > > and a spare," got pregnant again -- and died of complications
        > > of
        > > > childbirth.
        > > >
        > > > *Henry VII*
        > > > http://www.cofc.edu/~mccandla/henry-vii.jpg
        > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg>
        > > > http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg
        > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Elizabeth of York*
        > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg
        > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Arthur Tudor*
        > > > http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg
        > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * The last time there'd been only a female heir left for the
        > > throne,
        > > > years of civil war had ensued, and that female heir -- the
        > > Empress
        > > > Matilda or Maud -- was never herself crowned. Her son, Henry
        > > > Plantagenet (also called Henry Fitzempress, because his
        > > mother had
        > > > been married to the Holy Roman Emperor), ended that war, and,
        > > > married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, began a new dynasty, the
        > > > Plantagenets.
        > > >
        > > > *Empress Matilda
        > > >
        *http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg
        > >
        <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * When Henry VIII's own father, Henry VII, established the new
        > > Tudor
        > > > dynasty. he ended decades of nasty dynastic infighting among
        > > the
        > > > York and Lancaster heirs of Edward III.
        > > >
        > > > * The Salic Law didn't apply in England -- thus, if Henry left
        > > > daughters, or a son who died early (as his son, Edward VI,
        > > did end
        > > > up doing), those daughters would inherit the throne -- with
        > > all
        > > > the troubles that might entail of marrying foreign kings (as
        > > did
        > > > his daughter Mary I) or remaining unmarried and leaving
        > > succession
        > > > in doubt (as did his daughter Elizabeth I).
        > > >
        > > > The dynasty of the Tudors was itself bound up in the histories
        of
        > > some
        > > > very interesting women who came before Henry VIII:
        > > >
        > > > * Catherine of Valois, who was wife of Henry V of England and
        > > mother
        > > > of his son, Henry VI, committed the scandalous act of secretly
        > > > marrying after her husband's death. She married a Welsh
        > > squire,
        > > > Owen Tudor, and through this marriage gave the Tudor dynasty
        > > its
        > > > name. Catherine of Valois was the grandmother of Henry VII and
        > > > great-grandmother of Henry VIII.
        > > >
        > > > *Effigy of Catherine of Valois*
        > > > http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg
        > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Owen Tudor*
        > > > http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg
        > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * Margaret Beaufort, Henry VII's mother, married the eldest son
        > > of
        > > > Catherine of Valois, Edmund, Earl of Richmond. Henry VII
        > > wisely
        > > > claimed his right to the throne through conquest, but also had
        > > > some claim to the throne through his mother Margaret's descent
        > > > from John of Gaunt, and Katherine Roët, known as Katherine
        > > > Swynford, her earlier married name, whom John married after
        > > his
        > > > children's births. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, was the
        > > son
        > > > of Edward III of England, and it is from John of Gaunt that
        > > the
        > > > Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses are descended.
        > > >
        > > > *Margaret Beaufort*
        > > > http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg
        > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Edmund Tudor*
        > > > http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif
        > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif>
        > > >
        > > > *John of Gaunt*
        > > > http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
        gaunt.jpg
        > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
        gaunt.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Katherine Swynford*
        > > > http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg
        > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg>
        > > > *
        > > > Edward III*
        > > >
        > >
        http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england13

        > >
        <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
        3>
        > > 12-2.jpg
        > > >
        > > > Henry VIII also had two sisters who are important to history:
        > > >
        > > > * Margaret Tudor: queen of James IV of Scotland, she was the
        > > > grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots, and great-grandmother of
        > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Margaret
        > > > Tudor's second marriage, to Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of
        > > Angus,
        > > > made her the mother of Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox,
        > > who
        > > > was the mother of Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, one of the
        > > husbands
        > > > of Mary, Queen of Scots and the father of their son and heir,
        > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Thus,
        > > through
        > > > Henry VIII's sister's marriage comes the name of the dynasty
        > > that
        > > > succeeds the Tudors, the Stuarts (the English spelling of
        > > Stewart).
        > > >
        > > > *Margaret Tudor*
        > > >
        > >
        http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
        > >
        <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
        >
        > > >
        > > > *Archibald Douglas*
        > > > http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg
        > > <http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Margaret Douglas*
        > > > http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of-
        > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of->
        > > Margaret-Douglas-Countess-of-Lennox-from-Memoirs-of-the-Court-of-
        > > Queen-Elizabeth-Giclee-Print-C12066272.jpeg
        > > >
        > > > *Lord Darnley*
        > > >
        > >
        http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/l

        > >
        <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
        l>
        > > ord_darnley/full-Lord-Darnley-200.jpg
        > > >
        > > > * Henry VIII's younger sister, Mary Tudor, was married at 18 to
        > > the
        > > > 52-year-old King of France, Louis XII.When Louis died, Mary
        > > > secretly married Henry VIII's friend, Charles Brandon, Duke of
        > > > Suffolk, amd they had three children. One, Lady Frances
        > > Brandon,
        > > > married Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset, and their child,
        > > Lady
        > > > Jane Grey, was briefly Queen of England in the dynastic
        > > squabbles
        > > > when Henry VIII's only male heir, Edward VI, died young --
        > > thus
        > > > fulfilling Henry VIII's dynastic nightmares. Lady Catherine
        > > Grey,
        > > > sister of Lady Jane Grey, had her own problems and briefly
        > > ended
        > > > up in the Tower of London.
        > > >
        > > > *Mary Queen of Scots*
        > > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg
        > > <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *James VI and I*
        > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg
        > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Wives of Henry VIII*
        > > > Henry VIII's six wives met various fates (summaried by the old
        > > rhyme,
        > > > "divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded,
        > > >
        > > > * Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Queen Isabella I of Castile
        > > and
        > > > Aragon. Catherine was first married to Henry's older brother,
        > > > Arthur, and married Henry after Arthur died. Catherine gave
        > > birth
        > > > several times, but her only surviving child was the future
        > > Mary I
        > > > of England.
        > > >
        > > > *Catherine of Aragon*
        > > > http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
        of-
        > > <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
        of->
        > > aragon.jpg
        > > > *
        > > > Ferdinand and Isabella*
        > > > http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg
        > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * Anne Boleyn, for whom Henry VIII divorced Catherine of
        > > Aragon, and
        > > > who gave birth first to the future Queen Elizabeth I and then
        > > to a
        > > > still-born son. Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn, had been
        > > Henry
        > > > VIII's mistress before he pursued Anne Boleyn.
        > > >
        > > > *Anne Boleyn*
        > > > http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg
        > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Mary Boleyn*
        > > > http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg
        > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * Jane Seymour, who gave birth to the somewhat-frail future
        > > Edward
        > > > VI, and then died of complications of childbirth. Her
        > > relatives,
        > > > the Seymours, continued to play important roles in Henry
        > > VIII's
        > > > life and reign and in that of his heirs.
        > > >
        > > > *Jane Seymour*
        > > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg
        > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * Anne of Cleves, briefly married to Henry in an attempt to have
        > > > more sons -- but he was already attracted to his next wife
        > > and he
        > > > found Anne unattractive, so he divorced her. She remained in
        > > > England on relatively good terms with Henry and his children
        > > after
        > > > the divorce, even being part of the coronations of both Mary
        > > I and
        > > > Elizabeth I.
        > > >
        > > > *Anne of Cleves*
        > > >
        > >
        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.jp

        > >
        <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
        p>
        > > g/449px-AnneCleves.jpg
        > > >
        > > > * Catherine Howard, whom Henry executed fairly quickly when he
        > > > realized she had misrepresented her past -- and possibly
        > > present
        > > > -- affairs, and thus was not a reliable mother of an heir.
        > > >
        > > > *Catherine Howard*
        > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg
        > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > * Catherine Parr, by most accounts a patient, loving wife in
        > > Henry's
        > > > older age, was well-educated and a proponent of the new
        > > Protestant
        > > > religion. After Henry's death, she married Thomas Seymour, the
        > > > brother of Henry's late wife, Jane Seymour, and died of
        > > > complications of childbirth amid rumors that her husband
        > > poisoned
        > > > her in order to be free to marry the Princess Elizabeth.
        > > >
        > > > *Catherine Parr*
        > > > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg
        > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > An interesting side note on the wives of Henry VIII: all could
        > > claim
        > > > descent as well through Edward III, the king from whom both the
        > > House of
        > > > York and House of Lancaster claimed descent, and from whom Henry
        > > VIII
        > > > was also descended.
        > > >
        > > > *Heirs of Henry VIII*
        > > > Henry's fears about heirs didn't come true just in his own
        > > lifetime.
        > > > None of Henry's three heirs who ruled England in their turns --
        > > Edward
        > > > VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I -- had children (nor did Lady Jane
        > > Grey, the
        > > > "nine day queen"). So the crown passed after the death of the
        last
        > > Tudor
        > > > monarch, Elizabeth I, to James VI of Scotland who became James
        I of
        > > England.
        > > >
        > > > *Edward VI*
        > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg
        > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Mary I*
        > > > http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
        sized.jpg
        > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
        sized.jpg>
        > > >
        > > > *Elizabeth I*
        > > > http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg
        > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg>
        > > >
        > > Bill, it isn't quite true about Henry's wives all being descended
        > > from Edward III. As has been shown in "another place", I have
        shown
        > > them to be descendants of Henry II and Lady Antonia Fraser claims
        > > them to all be descended from Edward I although i have not been
        able
        > > to verify this yet.
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Bill Barber
        Interesting question. I suppose some type of precedent may have been established by the burning of Joan of Arc. As I look back over English history, I would
        Message 3 of 7 , May 16, 2007
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          Interesting question.

          I suppose some type of precedent may have been established by  the burning of Joan of Arc.

          As I look back over English history, I would have to start with women who weren't executed, but who might well have lost their lives if they had been found guilty of treason: Isabelle, wife of Edward II, and Margaret of Anjou. My comments here are off the top of my head, and I realize that there are flaws in my examples.

          I wonder if we begin to see executions of women in Tudor England as a result of the spread of humanism: the idea that people are defined by their individual proclivities, rather than by their predetermined roles in a hierarchical society. In other words, women in Tudor times might have been seen as responsible for their individual actions in the same way as were men. Of course, they were also open to being 'set up' as were men.

          I have made these comments without a great deal of analysis, but I'll take a look at it.

          Again, very interesting.

          Stephen Lark wrote:

          Bill, I am going to open up a question we posed in another place.

          Apart from: Anne Boleyn 1536, Margaret of Salisbury 1541, Katharine
          Howard and Viscountess Rochford 1542, Lady Jane Grey 1554, Mary
          Stewart 1587 and Alice, Lady Lisle 1689, were any other women
          beheaded in English history?

          --- In sceptredisle@ yahoogroups. com, Bill Barber <bbarber@... > wrote:
          >
          > You're right, Stephen. I remember your post.
          >
          > Stephen Lark wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In sceptredisle@ yahoogroups. com
          > > <mailto:sceptredisl e%40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Barber <bbarber@>
          wrote:
          > > >
          > > > *Women in the Tudor Dynasty*
          > > > From Jone Johnson Lewis,
          > > > Your Guide to Women's History.
          > > > About.com
          > > > http://womenshistor y.about.com/ od/tudor/ a/tudor_women. htm
          > > <http://womenshistor y.about.com/ od/tudor/ a/tudor_women. htm>
          > > > Edited: Bill Barber
          > > >
          > > > *Tudor Women Ancestors*
          > > > Would Henry VIII's life be nearly as interesting to historians,
          > > writers,
          > > > screenwriters, and television producers -- and to readers and
          > > viewers --
          > > > without all these fascinating female connections?
          > > >
          > > > While Henry VIII is the epitome of the Tudor dynasty, and is
          > > himself a
          > > > fascinating figure of history, women play a very important part
          in
          > > the
          > > > history of the Tudors of England. The simple fact that women
          gave
          > > birth
          > > > to heirs to the throne gave them a central role; some Tudor
          women
          > > were
          > > > more active in shaping their role in history than others.
          > > >
          > > > Henry VIII's marital history holds the fascination of historians
          > > and
          > > > historical fiction writers alike. At the root of this marital
          > > history is
          > > > a very real concern of Henry's: having a male heir for the
          throne.
          > > He
          > > > was acutely aware of the vulnerability of having only daughters
          or
          > > only
          > > > one son.
          > > >
          > > > Some of the history of which he was certainly keenly aware:
          > > >
          > > > * Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII and Elizabeth of
          > > York.
          > > > His older brother, Arthur, died before their father did, thus
          > > > leaving Henry as his father's heir. When Arthur died,
          > > Elizabeth of
          > > > York was still in her 30s, and in the grand tradition of
          > > the "heir
          > > > and a spare," got pregnant again -- and died of complications
          > > of
          > > > childbirth.
          > > >
          > > > *Henry VII*
          > > > http://www.cofc. edu/~mccandla/ henry-vii. jpg
          > > <http://www.cofc. edu/%7Emccandla/ henry-vii. jpg>
          > > > http://tudorhistory .org/henry7/ henry7bust. jpg
          > > <http://tudorhistory .org/henry7/ henry7bust. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Elizabeth of York*
          > > > http://www.spartacu s.schoolnet. co.uk/TUDelizabe thyork.jpg
          > > <http://www.spartacu s.schoolnet. co.uk/TUDelizabe thyork.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Arthur Tudor*
          > > > http://tudorhistory .org/people/ arthur/arthur2. jpg
          > > <http://tudorhistory .org/people/ arthur/arthur2. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * The last time there'd been only a female heir left for the
          > > throne,
          > > > years of civil war had ensued, and that female heir -- the
          > > Empress
          > > > Matilda or Maud -- was never herself crowned. Her son, Henry
          > > > Plantagenet (also called Henry Fitzempress, because his
          > > mother had
          > > > been married to the Holy Roman Emperor), ended that war, and,
          > > > married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, began a new dynasty, the
          > > > Plantagenets.
          > > >
          > > > *Empress Matilda
          > > >
          *http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ various/empress_ matilda.jpg
          > >
          <http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ various/empress_ matilda.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * When Henry VIII's own father, Henry VII, established the new
          > > Tudor
          > > > dynasty. he ended decades of nasty dynastic infighting among
          > > the
          > > > York and Lancaster heirs of Edward III.
          > > >
          > > > * The Salic Law didn't apply in England -- thus, if Henry left
          > > > daughters, or a son who died early (as his son, Edward VI,
          > > did end
          > > > up doing), those daughters would inherit the throne -- with
          > > all
          > > > the troubles that might entail of marrying foreign kings (as
          > > did
          > > > his daughter Mary I) or remaining unmarried and leaving
          > > succession
          > > > in doubt (as did his daughter Elizabeth I).
          > > >
          > > > The dynasty of the Tudors was itself bound up in the histories
          of
          > > some
          > > > very interesting women who came before Henry VIII:
          > > >
          > > > * Catherine of Valois, who was wife of Henry V of England and
          > > mother
          > > > of his son, Henry VI, committed the scandalous act of secretly
          > > > marrying after her husband's death. She married a Welsh
          > > squire,
          > > > Owen Tudor, and through this marriage gave the Tudor dynasty
          > > its
          > > > name. Catherine of Valois was the grandmother of Henry VII and
          > > > great-grandmother of Henry VIII.
          > > >
          > > > *Effigy of Catherine of Valois*
          > > > http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ gifs7/catherinev alois1401. jpg
          > > <http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ gifs7/catherinev alois1401. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Owen Tudor*
          > > > http://www.hoerbuch .cc/pic/pic566_ big.jpg
          > > <http://www.hoerbuch .cc/pic/pic566_ big.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * Margaret Beaufort, Henry VII's mother, married the eldest son
          > > of
          > > > Catherine of Valois, Edmund, Earl of Richmond. Henry VII
          > > wisely
          > > > claimed his right to the throne through conquest, but also had
          > > > some claim to the throne through his mother Margaret's descent
          > > > from John of Gaunt, and Katherine Roët, known as Katherine
          > > > Swynford, her earlier married name, whom John married after
          > > his
          > > > children's births. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, was the
          > > son
          > > > of Edward III of England, and it is from John of Gaunt that
          > > the
          > > > Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses are descended.
          > > >
          > > > *Margaret Beaufort*
          > > > http://www.marileec ody.com/henry7/ beaufort2. jpg
          > > <http://www.marileec ody.com/henry7/ beaufort2. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Edmund Tudor*
          > > > http://www.mbs- brasses.co. uk/images/ BOSSTDAVIDS. gif
          > > <http://www.mbs- brasses.co. uk/images/ BOSSTDAVIDS. gif>
          > > >
          > > > *John of Gaunt*
          > > > http://www.castles- abbeys.co. uk/Michelham- Priory/john- of-
          gaunt.jpg
          > > <http://www.castles- abbeys.co. uk/Michelham- Priory/john- of-
          gaunt.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Katherine Swynford*
          > > > http://www.middle- ages.org. uk/images/ eleanor-of- aquitaine. jpg
          > > <http://www.middle- ages.org. uk/images/ eleanor-of- aquitaine. jpg>
          > > > *
          > > > Edward III*
          > > >
          > >
          http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ royal/plantagene t/gifs/edward3en gland13

          > >
          <http://worldroots. com/brigitte/ royal/plantagene t/gifs/edward3en gland1
          3>
          > > 12-2.jpg
          > > >
          > > > Henry VIII also had two sisters who are important to history:
          > > >
          > > > * Margaret Tudor: queen of James IV of Scotland, she was the
          > > > grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots, and great-grandmother of
          > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Margaret
          > > > Tudor's second marriage, to Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of
          > > Angus,
          > > > made her the mother of Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox,
          > > who
          > > > was the mother of Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, one of the
          > > husbands
          > > > of Mary, Queen of Scots and the father of their son and heir,
          > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Thus,
          > > through
          > > > Henry VIII's sister's marriage comes the name of the dynasty
          > > that
          > > > succeeds the Tudors, the Stuarts (the English spelling of
          > > Stewart).
          > > >
          > > > *Margaret Tudor*
          > > >
          > >
          http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ stewart/tn_ margaret_ tudor.jpg
          > >
          <http://www.englishm onarchs.co. uk/images/ stewart/tn_ margaret_ tudor.jpg
          >
          > > >
          > > > *Archibald Douglas*
          > > > http://www.explore- parliament. net/nssMovies/ 03/0301/0301_ 01.jpg
          > > <http://www.explore- parliament. net/nssMovies/ 03/0301/0301_ 01.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Margaret Douglas*
          > > > http://imagesource. art.com/images/ -/Sarah-Essex/ Portrait- of-
          > > <http://imagesource. art.com/images/ -/Sarah-Essex/ Portrait- of->
          > > Margaret-Douglas- Countess- of-Lennox- from-Memoirs- of-the-Court- of-
          > > Queen-Elizabeth- Giclee-Print- C12066272. jpeg
          > > >
          > > > *Lord Darnley*
          > > >
          > >
          http://www.crimelib rary.com/ graphics/ photos/notorious _murders/ famous/l

          > >
          <http://www.crimelib rary.com/ graphics/ photos/notorious _murders/ famous/
          l>
          > > ord_darnley/ full-Lord- Darnley-200. jpg
          > > >
          > > > * Henry VIII's younger sister, Mary Tudor, was married at 18 to
          > > the
          > > > 52-year-old King of France, Louis XII.When Louis died, Mary
          > > > secretly married Henry VIII's friend, Charles Brandon, Duke of
          > > > Suffolk, amd they had three children. One, Lady Frances
          > > Brandon,
          > > > married Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset, and their child,
          > > Lady
          > > > Jane Grey, was briefly Queen of England in the dynastic
          > > squabbles
          > > > when Henry VIII's only male heir, Edward VI, died young --
          > > thus
          > > > fulfilling Henry VIII's dynastic nightmares. Lady Catherine
          > > Grey,
          > > > sister of Lady Jane Grey, had her own problems and briefly
          > > ended
          > > > up in the Tower of London.
          > > >
          > > > *Mary Queen of Scots*
          > > > http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/naziprison/ images/esca_ mary_l.jpg
          > > <http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/naziprison/ images/esca_ mary_l.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *James VI and I*
          > > > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Stuart, JamesI01. jpg
          > > <http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Stuart, JamesI01. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Wives of Henry VIII*
          > > > Henry VIII's six wives met various fates (summaried by the old
          > > rhyme,
          > > > "divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded,
          > > >
          > > > * Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Queen Isabella I of Castile
          > > and
          > > > Aragon. Catherine was first married to Henry's older brother,
          > > > Arthur, and married Henry after Arthur died. Catherine gave
          > > birth
          > > > several times, but her only surviving child was the future
          > > Mary I
          > > > of England.
          > > >
          > > > *Catherine of Aragon*
          > > > http://www.law. umkc.edu/ faculty/projects /ftrials/ more/catherine-
          of-
          > > <http://www.law. umkc.edu/ faculty/projects /ftrials/ more/catherine-
          of->
          > > aragon.jpg
          > > > *
          > > > Ferdinand and Isabella*
          > > > http://www.ignatius history.info/ 00133.jpg
          > > <http://www.ignatius history.info/ 00133.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * Anne Boleyn, for whom Henry VIII divorced Catherine of
          > > Aragon, and
          > > > who gave birth first to the future Queen Elizabeth I and then
          > > to a
          > > > still-born son. Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn, had been
          > > Henry
          > > > VIII's mistress before he pursued Anne Boleyn.
          > > >
          > > > *Anne Boleyn*
          > > > http://englishhisto ry.net/tudor/ monarchs/ boleynmainjpg. jpg
          > > <http://englishhisto ry.net/tudor/ monarchs/ boleynmainjpg. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Mary Boleyn*
          > > > http://www.geocitie s.com/boleynfami ly/mary/marybole yn.jpg
          > > <http://www.geocitie s.com/boleynfami ly/mary/marybole yn.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * Jane Seymour, who gave birth to the somewhat-frail future
          > > Edward
          > > > VI, and then died of complications of childbirth. Her
          > > relatives,
          > > > the Seymours, continued to play important roles in Henry
          > > VIII's
          > > > life and reign and in that of his heirs.
          > > >
          > > > *Jane Seymour*
          > > > http://www.uvm. edu/~hag/ sca/tudor/ redjane.jpg
          > > <http://www.uvm. edu/%7Ehag/ sca/tudor/ redjane.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * Anne of Cleves, briefly married to Henry in an attempt to have
          > > > more sons -- but he was already attracted to his next wife
          > > and he
          > > > found Anne unattractive, so he divorced her. She remained in
          > > > England on relatively good terms with Henry and his children
          > > after
          > > > the divorce, even being part of the coronations of both Mary
          > > I and
          > > > Elizabeth I.
          > > >
          > > > *Anne of Cleves*
          > > >
          > >
          http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/thumb/ 5/54/AnneCleves. jp

          > >
          <http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/thumb/ 5/54/AnneCleves. j
          p>
          > > g/449px-AnneCleves. jpg
          > > >
          > > > * Catherine Howard, whom Henry executed fairly quickly when he
          > > > realized she had misrepresented her past -- and possibly
          > > present
          > > > -- affairs, and thus was not a reliable mother of an heir.
          > > >
          > > > *Catherine Howard*
          > > > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Howard, Catherine02. jpg
          > > <http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/Howard, Catherine02. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > * Catherine Parr, by most accounts a patient, loving wife in
          > > Henry's
          > > > older age, was well-educated and a proponent of the new
          > > Protestant
          > > > religion. After Henry's death, she married Thomas Seymour, the
          > > > brother of Henry's late wife, Jane Seymour, and died of
          > > > complications of childbirth amid rumors that her husband
          > > poisoned
          > > > her in order to be free to marry the Princess Elizabeth.
          > > >
          > > > *Catherine Parr*
          > > > http://www.wga. hu/art/m/ master/yunk_ en/c_parr. jpg
          > > <http://www.wga. hu/art/m/ master/yunk_ en/c_parr. jpg>
          > > >
          > > > An interesting side note on the wives of Henry VIII: all could
          > > claim
          > > > descent as well through Edward III, the king from whom both the
          > > House of
          > > > York and House of Lancaster claimed descent, and from whom Henry
          > > VIII
          > > > was also descended.
          > > >
          > > > *Heirs of Henry VIII*
          > > > Henry's fears about heirs didn't come true just in his own
          > > lifetime.
          > > > None of Henry's three heirs who ruled England in their turns --
          > > Edward
          > > > VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I -- had children (nor did Lady Jane
          > > Grey, the
          > > > "nine day queen"). So the crown passed after the death of the
          last
          > > Tudor
          > > > monarch, Elizabeth I, to James VI of Scotland who became James
          I of
          > > England.
          > > >
          > > > *Edward VI*
          > > > http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/EdwardVI0 8.jpg
          > > <http://www.tudorpla ce.com.ar/ images/EdwardVI0 8.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Mary I*
          > > > http://www.nndb. com/people/ 557/000093278/ queen-mary- i-1-
          sized.jpg
          > > <http://www.nndb. com/people/ 557/000093278/ queen-mary- i-1-
          sized.jpg>
          > > >
          > > > *Elizabeth I*
          > > > http://www.schoolsh istory.org. uk/Elizabeth% 20I.jpg
          > > <http://www.schoolsh istory.org. uk/Elizabeth% 20I.jpg>
          > > >
          > > Bill, it isn't quite true about Henry's wives all being descended
          > > from Edward III. As has been shown in "another place", I have
          shown
          > > them to be descendants of Henry II and Lady Antonia Fraser claims
          > > them to all be descended from Edward I although i have not been
          able
          > > to verify this yet.
          > >
          > >
          >


        • Stephen Lark
          --Just a clue: she would need to have been some kind of noblewoman as were all of my examples. Female commoners would have been burned for treason or hanged
          Message 4 of 7 , May 17, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --Just a clue: she would need to have been some kind of noblewoman as
            were all of my examples. Female commoners would have been burned for
            treason or hanged for anything else - and you are quite right about
            the Reformation and Tudor era generally making women as responsible
            for their actions as men. Jeanne d'Arc was convicted of heresy etc.
            and in France.

            As I said, I am opening this question up - can anyone else suggest
            anybody?

            - In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com, Bill Barber <bbarber@...> wrote:
            >
            > Interesting question.
            >
            > I suppose some type of precedent may have been established by the
            > burning of Joan of Arc.
            >
            > As I look back over English history, I would have to start with
            women
            > who weren't executed, but who might well have lost their lives if
            they
            > had been found guilty of treason: Isabelle, wife of Edward II, and
            > Margaret of Anjou. My comments here are off the top of my head, and
            I
            > realize that there are flaws in my examples.
            >
            > I wonder if we begin to see executions of women in Tudor England as
            a
            > result of the spread of humanism: the idea that people are defined
            by
            > their individual proclivities, rather than by their predetermined
            roles
            > in a hierarchical society. In other words, women in Tudor times
            might
            > have been seen as responsible for their individual actions in the
            same
            > way as were men. Of course, they were also open to being 'set up'
            as
            > were men.
            >
            > I have made these comments without a great deal of analysis, but
            I'll
            > take a look at it.
            >
            > Again, very interesting.
            >
            > Stephen Lark wrote:
            > >
            > > Bill, I am going to open up a question we posed in another place.
            > >
            > > Apart from: Anne Boleyn 1536, Margaret of Salisbury 1541,
            Katharine
            > > Howard and Viscountess Rochford 1542, Lady Jane Grey 1554, Mary
            > > Stewart 1587 and Alice, Lady Lisle 1689, were any other women
            > > beheaded in English history?
            > >
            > > --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber <bbarber@>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > You're right, Stephen. I remember your post.
            > > >
            > > > Stephen Lark wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber
            <bbarber@>
            > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Women in the Tudor Dynasty*
            > > > > > From Jone Johnson Lewis,
            > > > > > Your Guide to Women's History.
            > > > > > About.com
            > > > > > http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm
            > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm>
            > > > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm
            > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm>>
            > > > > > Edited: Bill Barber
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Tudor Women Ancestors*
            > > > > > Would Henry VIII's life be nearly as interesting to
            historians,
            > > > > writers,
            > > > > > screenwriters, and television producers -- and to readers
            and
            > > > > viewers --
            > > > > > without all these fascinating female connections?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > While Henry VIII is the epitome of the Tudor dynasty, and is
            > > > > himself a
            > > > > > fascinating figure of history, women play a very important
            part
            > > in
            > > > > the
            > > > > > history of the Tudors of England. The simple fact that women
            > > gave
            > > > > birth
            > > > > > to heirs to the throne gave them a central role; some Tudor
            > > women
            > > > > were
            > > > > > more active in shaping their role in history than others.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Henry VIII's marital history holds the fascination of
            historians
            > > > > and
            > > > > > historical fiction writers alike. At the root of this
            marital
            > > > > history is
            > > > > > a very real concern of Henry's: having a male heir for the
            > > throne.
            > > > > He
            > > > > > was acutely aware of the vulnerability of having only
            daughters
            > > or
            > > > > only
            > > > > > one son.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Some of the history of which he was certainly keenly aware:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII and Elizabeth
            of
            > > > > York.
            > > > > > His older brother, Arthur, died before their father did,
            thus
            > > > > > leaving Henry as his father's heir. When Arthur died,
            > > > > Elizabeth of
            > > > > > York was still in her 30s, and in the grand tradition of
            > > > > the "heir
            > > > > > and a spare," got pregnant again -- and died of
            complications
            > > > > of
            > > > > > childbirth.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Henry VII*
            > > > > > http://www.cofc.edu/~mccandla/henry-vii.jpg
            > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg
            > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg>>
            > > > > > http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg
            > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg>
            > > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg
            > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Elizabeth of York*
            > > > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg
            > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg
            > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Arthur Tudor*
            > > > > > http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg
            > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg>
            > > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg
            > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * The last time there'd been only a female heir left for the
            > > > > throne,
            > > > > > years of civil war had ensued, and that female heir -- the
            > > > > Empress
            > > > > > Matilda or Maud -- was never herself crowned. Her son, Henry
            > > > > > Plantagenet (also called Henry Fitzempress, because his
            > > > > mother had
            > > > > > been married to the Holy Roman Emperor), ended that war,
            and,
            > > > > > married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, began a new dynasty, the
            > > > > > Plantagenets.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Empress Matilda
            > > > > >
            > >
            *http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg
            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg>
            > > > >
            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg
            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * When Henry VIII's own father, Henry VII, established the
            new
            > > > > Tudor
            > > > > > dynasty. he ended decades of nasty dynastic infighting among
            > > > > the
            > > > > > York and Lancaster heirs of Edward III.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * The Salic Law didn't apply in England -- thus, if Henry
            left
            > > > > > daughters, or a son who died early (as his son, Edward VI,
            > > > > did end
            > > > > > up doing), those daughters would inherit the throne -- with
            > > > > all
            > > > > > the troubles that might entail of marrying foreign kings (as
            > > > > did
            > > > > > his daughter Mary I) or remaining unmarried and leaving
            > > > > succession
            > > > > > in doubt (as did his daughter Elizabeth I).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The dynasty of the Tudors was itself bound up in the
            histories
            > > of
            > > > > some
            > > > > > very interesting women who came before Henry VIII:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Catherine of Valois, who was wife of Henry V of England
            and
            > > > > mother
            > > > > > of his son, Henry VI, committed the scandalous act of
            secretly
            > > > > > marrying after her husband's death. She married a Welsh
            > > > > squire,
            > > > > > Owen Tudor, and through this marriage gave the Tudor dynasty
            > > > > its
            > > > > > name. Catherine of Valois was the grandmother of Henry VII
            and
            > > > > > great-grandmother of Henry VIII.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Effigy of Catherine of Valois*
            > > > > >
            http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg
            > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg>
            > > > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg
            > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Owen Tudor*
            > > > > > http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg
            > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg
            > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Margaret Beaufort, Henry VII's mother, married the eldest
            son
            > > > > of
            > > > > > Catherine of Valois, Edmund, Earl of Richmond. Henry VII
            > > > > wisely
            > > > > > claimed his right to the throne through conquest, but also
            had
            > > > > > some claim to the throne through his mother Margaret's
            descent
            > > > > > from John of Gaunt, and Katherine Roët, known as Katherine
            > > > > > Swynford, her earlier married name, whom John married after
            > > > > his
            > > > > > children's births. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, was the
            > > > > son
            > > > > > of Edward III of England, and it is from John of Gaunt that
            > > > > the
            > > > > > Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses are descended.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Margaret Beaufort*
            > > > > > http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg
            > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg
            > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Edmund Tudor*
            > > > > > http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif
            > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif>
            > > > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif
            > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *John of Gaunt*
            > > > > > http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
            > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of->
            > > gaunt.jpg
            > > > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
            > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of->
            > > gaunt.jpg>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Katherine Swynford*
            > > > > > http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-
            aquitaine.jpg
            > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-
            aquitaine.jpg
            > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg>>
            > > > > > *
            > > > > > Edward III*
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england13

            > >
            <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
            3>
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1

            > >
            <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
            >
            > > 3>
            > > > > 12-2.jpg
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Henry VIII also had two sisters who are important to
            history:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Margaret Tudor: queen of James IV of Scotland, she was the
            > > > > > grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots, and great-grandmother
            of
            > > > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Margaret
            > > > > > Tudor's second marriage, to Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of
            > > > > Angus,
            > > > > > made her the mother of Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox,
            > > > > who
            > > > > > was the mother of Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, one of the
            > > > > husbands
            > > > > > of Mary, Queen of Scots and the father of their son and
            heir,
            > > > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Thus,
            > > > > through
            > > > > > Henry VIII's sister's marriage comes the name of the dynasty
            > > > > that
            > > > > > succeeds the Tudors, the Stuarts (the English spelling of
            > > > > Stewart).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Margaret Tudor*
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
            >
            > > > >
            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg

            > >
            <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
            >
            > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Archibald Douglas*
            > > > > > http://www.explore-
            parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg
            > > <http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.explore-
            parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg
            > > <http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Margaret Douglas*
            > > > > > http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of-

            > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of->
            > > > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of-
            > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of->>
            > > > > Margaret-Douglas-Countess-of-Lennox-from-Memoirs-of-the-Court-
            of-
            > > > > Queen-Elizabeth-Giclee-Print-C12066272.jpeg
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Lord Darnley*
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/l

            > >
            <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
            l>
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/

            > >
            <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
            >
            > > l>
            > > > > ord_darnley/full-Lord-Darnley-200.jpg
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Henry VIII's younger sister, Mary Tudor, was married at
            18 to
            > > > > the
            > > > > > 52-year-old King of France, Louis XII.When Louis died, Mary
            > > > > > secretly married Henry VIII's friend, Charles Brandon, Duke
            of
            > > > > > Suffolk, amd they had three children. One, Lady Frances
            > > > > Brandon,
            > > > > > married Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset, and their child,
            > > > > Lady
            > > > > > Jane Grey, was briefly Queen of England in the dynastic
            > > > > squabbles
            > > > > > when Henry VIII's only male heir, Edward VI, died young --
            > > > > thus
            > > > > > fulfilling Henry VIII's dynastic nightmares. Lady Catherine
            > > > > Grey,
            > > > > > sister of Lady Jane Grey, had her own problems and briefly
            > > > > ended
            > > > > > up in the Tower of London.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Mary Queen of Scots*
            > > > > >
            http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg
            > > <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg>
            > > > >
            <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg
            > > <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *James VI and I*
            > > > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Wives of Henry VIII*
            > > > > > Henry VIII's six wives met various fates (summaried by the
            old
            > > > > rhyme,
            > > > > > "divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Queen Isabella I of
            Castile
            > > > > and
            > > > > > Aragon. Catherine was first married to Henry's older
            brother,
            > > > > > Arthur, and married Henry after Arthur died. Catherine gave
            > > > > birth
            > > > > > several times, but her only surviving child was the future
            > > > > Mary I
            > > > > > of England.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Catherine of Aragon*
            > > > > >
            http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
            > > <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine->
            > > of-
            > > > >
            <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
            > > <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine->
            > > of->
            > > > > aragon.jpg
            > > > > > *
            > > > > > Ferdinand and Isabella*
            > > > > > http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg
            > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg
            > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Anne Boleyn, for whom Henry VIII divorced Catherine of
            > > > > Aragon, and
            > > > > > who gave birth first to the future Queen Elizabeth I and
            then
            > > > > to a
            > > > > > still-born son. Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn, had been
            > > > > Henry
            > > > > > VIII's mistress before he pursued Anne Boleyn.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Anne Boleyn*
            > > > > > http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg
            > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg>
            > > > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg
            > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Mary Boleyn*
            > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg
            > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg
            > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Jane Seymour, who gave birth to the somewhat-frail future
            > > > > Edward
            > > > > > VI, and then died of complications of childbirth. Her
            > > > > relatives,
            > > > > > the Seymours, continued to play important roles in Henry
            > > > > VIII's
            > > > > > life and reign and in that of his heirs.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Jane Seymour*
            > > > > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg
            > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg
            > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Anne of Cleves, briefly married to Henry in an attempt to
            have
            > > > > > more sons -- but he was already attracted to his next wife
            > > > > and he
            > > > > > found Anne unattractive, so he divorced her. She remained in
            > > > > > England on relatively good terms with Henry and his children
            > > > > after
            > > > > > the divorce, even being part of the coronations of both Mary
            > > > > I and
            > > > > > Elizabeth I.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Anne of Cleves*
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.jp

            > >
            <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
            p>
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j

            > >
            <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
            >
            > > p>
            > > > > g/449px-AnneCleves.jpg
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Catherine Howard, whom Henry executed fairly quickly when
            he
            > > > > > realized she had misrepresented her past -- and possibly
            > > > > present
            > > > > > -- affairs, and thus was not a reliable mother of an heir.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Catherine Howard*
            > > > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > * Catherine Parr, by most accounts a patient, loving wife in
            > > > > Henry's
            > > > > > older age, was well-educated and a proponent of the new
            > > > > Protestant
            > > > > > religion. After Henry's death, she married Thomas Seymour,
            the
            > > > > > brother of Henry's late wife, Jane Seymour, and died of
            > > > > > complications of childbirth amid rumors that her husband
            > > > > poisoned
            > > > > > her in order to be free to marry the Princess Elizabeth.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Catherine Parr*
            > > > > > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg
            > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg
            > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > An interesting side note on the wives of Henry VIII: all
            could
            > > > > claim
            > > > > > descent as well through Edward III, the king from whom both
            the
            > > > > House of
            > > > > > York and House of Lancaster claimed descent, and from whom
            Henry
            > > > > VIII
            > > > > > was also descended.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Heirs of Henry VIII*
            > > > > > Henry's fears about heirs didn't come true just in his own
            > > > > lifetime.
            > > > > > None of Henry's three heirs who ruled England in their
            turns --
            > > > > Edward
            > > > > > VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I -- had children (nor did Lady
            Jane
            > > > > Grey, the
            > > > > > "nine day queen"). So the crown passed after the death of
            the
            > > last
            > > > > Tudor
            > > > > > monarch, Elizabeth I, to James VI of Scotland who became
            James
            > > I of
            > > > > England.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Edward VI*
            > > > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg
            > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Mary I*
            > > > > > http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
            > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1->
            > > sized.jpg
            > > > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
            > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1->
            > > sized.jpg>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Elizabeth I*
            > > > > > http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg
            > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg>
            > > > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg
            > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg>>
            > > > > >
            > > > > Bill, it isn't quite true about Henry's wives all being
            descended
            > > > > from Edward III. As has been shown in "another place", I have
            > > shown
            > > > > them to be descendants of Henry II and Lady Antonia Fraser
            claims
            > > > > them to all be descended from Edward I although i have not
            been
            > > able
            > > > > to verify this yet.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Stephen Lark
            There is one other possible case that I have not yet mentioned. Sir John Bulmer and his wife were involved in the Pilgrimage of Grace and were executed in 1537
            Message 5 of 7 , May 24, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              There is one other possible case that I have not yet mentioned. Sir
              John Bulmer and his wife were involved in the Pilgrimage of Grace and
              were executed in 1537 but the accounts that I have read of trheir
              ends are conflicting.
              Margaret, Lady Bulmer was born a Stafford - her grandfather was
              beheaded in 1483, her father in 1521 and her nephew executed probably
              by beheading in 1557. As the wife of a knight, she ought surely to
              have qualified for beheading but ..... who knows?

              --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Lark"
              <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
              >
              > --Just a clue: she would need to have been some kind of noblewoman
              as
              > were all of my examples. Female commoners would have been burned
              for
              > treason or hanged for anything else - and you are quite right about
              > the Reformation and Tudor era generally making women as responsible
              > for their actions as men. Jeanne d'Arc was convicted of heresy etc.
              > and in France.
              >
              > As I said, I am opening this question up - can anyone else suggest
              > anybody?
              >
              > - In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com, Bill Barber <bbarber@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Interesting question.
              > >
              > > I suppose some type of precedent may have been established by
              the
              > > burning of Joan of Arc.
              > >
              > > As I look back over English history, I would have to start with
              > women
              > > who weren't executed, but who might well have lost their lives if
              > they
              > > had been found guilty of treason: Isabelle, wife of Edward II,
              and
              > > Margaret of Anjou. My comments here are off the top of my head,
              and
              > I
              > > realize that there are flaws in my examples.
              > >
              > > I wonder if we begin to see executions of women in Tudor England
              as
              > a
              > > result of the spread of humanism: the idea that people are
              defined
              > by
              > > their individual proclivities, rather than by their predetermined
              > roles
              > > in a hierarchical society. In other words, women in Tudor times
              > might
              > > have been seen as responsible for their individual actions in the
              > same
              > > way as were men. Of course, they were also open to being 'set up'
              > as
              > > were men.
              > >
              > > I have made these comments without a great deal of analysis, but
              > I'll
              > > take a look at it.
              > >
              > > Again, very interesting.
              > >
              > > Stephen Lark wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Bill, I am going to open up a question we posed in another
              place.
              > > >
              > > > Apart from: Anne Boleyn 1536, Margaret of Salisbury 1541,
              > Katharine
              > > > Howard and Viscountess Rochford 1542, Lady Jane Grey 1554, Mary
              > > > Stewart 1587 and Alice, Lady Lisle 1689, were any other women
              > > > beheaded in English history?
              > > >
              > > > --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
              > > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber <bbarber@>
              > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > You're right, Stephen. I remember your post.
              > > > >
              > > > > Stephen Lark wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
              > > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > > <mailto:sceptredisle%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Barber
              > <bbarber@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Women in the Tudor Dynasty*
              > > > > > > From Jone Johnson Lewis,
              > > > > > > Your Guide to Women's History.
              > > > > > > About.com
              > > > > > > http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm
              > > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm>
              > > > > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm
              > > > <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/tudor/a/tudor_women.htm>>
              > > > > > > Edited: Bill Barber
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Tudor Women Ancestors*
              > > > > > > Would Henry VIII's life be nearly as interesting to
              > historians,
              > > > > > writers,
              > > > > > > screenwriters, and television producers -- and to readers
              > and
              > > > > > viewers --
              > > > > > > without all these fascinating female connections?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > While Henry VIII is the epitome of the Tudor dynasty, and
              is
              > > > > > himself a
              > > > > > > fascinating figure of history, women play a very
              important
              > part
              > > > in
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > > history of the Tudors of England. The simple fact that
              women
              > > > gave
              > > > > > birth
              > > > > > > to heirs to the throne gave them a central role; some
              Tudor
              > > > women
              > > > > > were
              > > > > > > more active in shaping their role in history than others.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Henry VIII's marital history holds the fascination of
              > historians
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > > historical fiction writers alike. At the root of this
              > marital
              > > > > > history is
              > > > > > > a very real concern of Henry's: having a male heir for the
              > > > throne.
              > > > > > He
              > > > > > > was acutely aware of the vulnerability of having only
              > daughters
              > > > or
              > > > > > only
              > > > > > > one son.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Some of the history of which he was certainly keenly
              aware:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Henry VIII was the second son of Henry VII and
              Elizabeth
              > of
              > > > > > York.
              > > > > > > His older brother, Arthur, died before their father did,
              > thus
              > > > > > > leaving Henry as his father's heir. When Arthur died,
              > > > > > Elizabeth of
              > > > > > > York was still in her 30s, and in the grand tradition of
              > > > > > the "heir
              > > > > > > and a spare," got pregnant again -- and died of
              > complications
              > > > > > of
              > > > > > > childbirth.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Henry VII*
              > > > > > > http://www.cofc.edu/~mccandla/henry-vii.jpg
              > > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg
              > > > <http://www.cofc.edu/%7Emccandla/henry-vii.jpg>>
              > > > > > > http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg
              > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg
              > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/henry7/henry7bust.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Elizabeth of York*
              > > > > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg
              > > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg
              > > > <http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUDelizabethyork.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Arthur Tudor*
              > > > > > > http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg
              > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg
              > > > <http://tudorhistory.org/people/arthur/arthur2.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * The last time there'd been only a female heir left for
              the
              > > > > > throne,
              > > > > > > years of civil war had ensued, and that female heir -- the
              > > > > > Empress
              > > > > > > Matilda or Maud -- was never herself crowned. Her son,
              Henry
              > > > > > > Plantagenet (also called Henry Fitzempress, because his
              > > > > > mother had
              > > > > > > been married to the Holy Roman Emperor), ended that war,
              > and,
              > > > > > > married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, began a new dynasty, the
              > > > > > > Plantagenets.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Empress Matilda
              > > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              *http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg>
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/empress_matilda.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * When Henry VIII's own father, Henry VII, established
              the
              > new
              > > > > > Tudor
              > > > > > > dynasty. he ended decades of nasty dynastic infighting
              among
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > > York and Lancaster heirs of Edward III.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * The Salic Law didn't apply in England -- thus, if Henry
              > left
              > > > > > > daughters, or a son who died early (as his son, Edward VI,
              > > > > > did end
              > > > > > > up doing), those daughters would inherit the throne --
              with
              > > > > > all
              > > > > > > the troubles that might entail of marrying foreign kings
              (as
              > > > > > did
              > > > > > > his daughter Mary I) or remaining unmarried and leaving
              > > > > > succession
              > > > > > > in doubt (as did his daughter Elizabeth I).
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > The dynasty of the Tudors was itself bound up in the
              > histories
              > > > of
              > > > > > some
              > > > > > > very interesting women who came before Henry VIII:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Catherine of Valois, who was wife of Henry V of England
              > and
              > > > > > mother
              > > > > > > of his son, Henry VI, committed the scandalous act of
              > secretly
              > > > > > > marrying after her husband's death. She married a Welsh
              > > > > > squire,
              > > > > > > Owen Tudor, and through this marriage gave the Tudor
              dynasty
              > > > > > its
              > > > > > > name. Catherine of Valois was the grandmother of Henry
              VII
              > and
              > > > > > > great-grandmother of Henry VIII.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Effigy of Catherine of Valois*
              > > > > > >
              > http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg
              > > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg>
              > > > > >
              <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg
              > > > <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/catherinevalois1401.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Owen Tudor*
              > > > > > > http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg
              > > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg
              > > > <http://www.hoerbuch.cc/pic/pic566_big.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Margaret Beaufort, Henry VII's mother, married the
              eldest
              > son
              > > > > > of
              > > > > > > Catherine of Valois, Edmund, Earl of Richmond. Henry VII
              > > > > > wisely
              > > > > > > claimed his right to the throne through conquest, but
              also
              > had
              > > > > > > some claim to the throne through his mother Margaret's
              > descent
              > > > > > > from John of Gaunt, and Katherine Roët, known as Katherine
              > > > > > > Swynford, her earlier married name, whom John married
              after
              > > > > > his
              > > > > > > children's births. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, was
              the
              > > > > > son
              > > > > > > of Edward III of England, and it is from John of Gaunt
              that
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > > Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses are descended.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Margaret Beaufort*
              > > > > > > http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg
              > > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg
              > > > <http://www.marileecody.com/henry7/beaufort2.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Edmund Tudor*
              > > > > > > http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif
              > > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif>
              > > > > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif
              > > > <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/BOSSTDAVIDS.gif>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *John of Gaunt*
              > > > > > > http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
              > > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of->
              > > > gaunt.jpg
              > > > > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of-
              > > > <http://www.castles-abbeys.co.uk/Michelham-Priory/john-of->
              > > > gaunt.jpg>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Katherine Swynford*
              > > > > > > http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-
              > aquitaine.jpg
              > > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-
              > aquitaine.jpg
              > > > <http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/images/eleanor-of-aquitaine.jpg>>
              > > > > > > *
              > > > > > > Edward III*
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england13
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
              > 3>
              > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/edward3england1
              > >
              > > > 3>
              > > > > > 12-2.jpg
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Henry VIII also had two sisters who are important to
              > history:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Margaret Tudor: queen of James IV of Scotland, she was
              the
              > > > > > > grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots, and great-
              grandmother
              > of
              > > > > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England.
              Margaret
              > > > > > > Tudor's second marriage, to Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of
              > > > > > Angus,
              > > > > > > made her the mother of Margaret Douglas, Countess of
              Lennox,
              > > > > > who
              > > > > > > was the mother of Henry Stewart, Lord Darnley, one of the
              > > > > > husbands
              > > > > > > of Mary, Queen of Scots and the father of their son and
              > heir,
              > > > > > > James VI of Scotland who became James I of England. Thus,
              > > > > > through
              > > > > > > Henry VIII's sister's marriage comes the name of the
              dynasty
              > > > > > that
              > > > > > > succeeds the Tudors, the Stuarts (the English spelling of
              > > > > > Stewart).
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Margaret Tudor*
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
              > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/stewart/tn_margaret_tudor.jpg
              > >
              > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Archibald Douglas*
              > > > > > > http://www.explore-
              > parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg
              > > > <http://www.explore-
              parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.explore-
              > parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg
              > > > <http://www.explore-
              parliament.net/nssMovies/03/0301/0301_01.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Margaret Douglas*
              > > > > > > http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-
              of-
              >
              > > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of->
              > > > > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-
              of-
              > > > <http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Sarah-Essex/Portrait-of->>
              > > > > > Margaret-Douglas-Countess-of-Lennox-from-Memoirs-of-the-
              Court-
              > of-
              > > > > > Queen-Elizabeth-Giclee-Print-C12066272.jpeg
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Lord Darnley*
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/l
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
              > l>
              > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/
              > >
              > > > l>
              > > > > > ord_darnley/full-Lord-Darnley-200.jpg
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Henry VIII's younger sister, Mary Tudor, was married at
              > 18 to
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > > 52-year-old King of France, Louis XII.When Louis died,
              Mary
              > > > > > > secretly married Henry VIII's friend, Charles Brandon,
              Duke
              > of
              > > > > > > Suffolk, amd they had three children. One, Lady Frances
              > > > > > Brandon,
              > > > > > > married Henry Grey, 3rd Marquess of Dorset, and their
              child,
              > > > > > Lady
              > > > > > > Jane Grey, was briefly Queen of England in the dynastic
              > > > > > squabbles
              > > > > > > when Henry VIII's only male heir, Edward VI, died young --
              > > > > > thus
              > > > > > > fulfilling Henry VIII's dynastic nightmares. Lady
              Catherine
              > > > > > Grey,
              > > > > > > sister of Lady Jane Grey, had her own problems and briefly
              > > > > > ended
              > > > > > > up in the Tower of London.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Mary Queen of Scots*
              > > > > > >
              > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg
              > > > <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg>
              > > > > >
              > <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg
              > > >
              <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/naziprison/images/esca_mary_l.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *James VI and I*
              > > > > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Stuart,JamesI01.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Wives of Henry VIII*
              > > > > > > Henry VIII's six wives met various fates (summaried by
              the
              > old
              > > > > > rhyme,
              > > > > > > "divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Queen Isabella I of
              > Castile
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > > Aragon. Catherine was first married to Henry's older
              > brother,
              > > > > > > Arthur, and married Henry after Arthur died. Catherine
              gave
              > > > > > birth
              > > > > > > several times, but her only surviving child was the future
              > > > > > Mary I
              > > > > > > of England.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Catherine of Aragon*
              > > > > > >
              > http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
              > > >
              <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine->
              > > > of-
              > > > > >
              > <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine-
              > > >
              <http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/more/catherine->
              > > > of->
              > > > > > aragon.jpg
              > > > > > > *
              > > > > > > Ferdinand and Isabella*
              > > > > > > http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg
              > > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg
              > > > <http://www.ignatiushistory.info/00133.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Anne Boleyn, for whom Henry VIII divorced Catherine of
              > > > > > Aragon, and
              > > > > > > who gave birth first to the future Queen Elizabeth I and
              > then
              > > > > > to a
              > > > > > > still-born son. Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn, had been
              > > > > > Henry
              > > > > > > VIII's mistress before he pursued Anne Boleyn.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Anne Boleyn*
              > > > > > >
              http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg
              > > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg
              > > > <http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/boleynmainjpg.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Mary Boleyn*
              > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg
              > > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg
              > > > <http://www.geocities.com/boleynfamily/mary/maryboleyn.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Jane Seymour, who gave birth to the somewhat-frail
              future
              > > > > > Edward
              > > > > > > VI, and then died of complications of childbirth. Her
              > > > > > relatives,
              > > > > > > the Seymours, continued to play important roles in Henry
              > > > > > VIII's
              > > > > > > life and reign and in that of his heirs.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Jane Seymour*
              > > > > > > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg
              > > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg
              > > > <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Anne of Cleves, briefly married to Henry in an attempt
              to
              > have
              > > > > > > more sons -- but he was already attracted to his next wife
              > > > > > and he
              > > > > > > found Anne unattractive, so he divorced her. She remained
              in
              > > > > > > England on relatively good terms with Henry and his
              children
              > > > > > after
              > > > > > > the divorce, even being part of the coronations of both
              Mary
              > > > > > I and
              > > > > > > Elizabeth I.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Anne of Cleves*
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.jp
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
              > p>
              > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              >
              <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
              >
              > > >
              >
              <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/AnneCleves.j
              > >
              > > > p>
              > > > > > g/449px-AnneCleves.jpg
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Catherine Howard, whom Henry executed fairly quickly
              when
              > he
              > > > > > > realized she had misrepresented her past -- and possibly
              > > > > > present
              > > > > > > -- affairs, and thus was not a reliable mother of an heir.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Catherine Howard*
              > > > > > >
              http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Howard,Catherine02.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > * Catherine Parr, by most accounts a patient, loving wife
              in
              > > > > > Henry's
              > > > > > > older age, was well-educated and a proponent of the new
              > > > > > Protestant
              > > > > > > religion. After Henry's death, she married Thomas
              Seymour,
              > the
              > > > > > > brother of Henry's late wife, Jane Seymour, and died of
              > > > > > > complications of childbirth amid rumors that her husband
              > > > > > poisoned
              > > > > > > her in order to be free to marry the Princess Elizabeth.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Catherine Parr*
              > > > > > > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg
              > > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg
              > > > <http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > An interesting side note on the wives of Henry VIII: all
              > could
              > > > > > claim
              > > > > > > descent as well through Edward III, the king from whom
              both
              > the
              > > > > > House of
              > > > > > > York and House of Lancaster claimed descent, and from
              whom
              > Henry
              > > > > > VIII
              > > > > > > was also descended.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Heirs of Henry VIII*
              > > > > > > Henry's fears about heirs didn't come true just in his own
              > > > > > lifetime.
              > > > > > > None of Henry's three heirs who ruled England in their
              > turns --
              > > > > > Edward
              > > > > > > VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I -- had children (nor did Lady
              > Jane
              > > > > > Grey, the
              > > > > > > "nine day queen"). So the crown passed after the death of
              > the
              > > > last
              > > > > > Tudor
              > > > > > > monarch, Elizabeth I, to James VI of Scotland who became
              > James
              > > > I of
              > > > > > England.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Edward VI*
              > > > > > > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg
              > > > <http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/EdwardVI08.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Mary I*
              > > > > > > http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
              > > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1->
              > > > sized.jpg
              > > > > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1-
              > > > <http://www.nndb.com/people/557/000093278/queen-mary-i-1->
              > > > sized.jpg>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > *Elizabeth I*
              > > > > > > http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg
              > > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg>
              > > > > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg
              > > > <http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/Elizabeth%20I.jpg>>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > Bill, it isn't quite true about Henry's wives all being
              > descended
              > > > > > from Edward III. As has been shown in "another place", I
              have
              > > > shown
              > > > > > them to be descendants of Henry II and Lady Antonia Fraser
              > claims
              > > > > > them to all be descended from Edward I although i have not
              > been
              > > > able
              > > > > > to verify this yet.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
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