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Re: What else would we like to discuss?

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  • Stephen Lark
    ... What is actually most likely is that the former Edward V died of natural causes and Shrewsbury? Either i) Executed at Tyburn in 1499 (WROE) under the name
    Message 1 of 127 , Oct 1, 2007
      --- In sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com, Jane Richards <isis1037@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > That's because his father, Henry VII murdered,[ or had
      > them killed], the rightful heirs to the throne, in
      > the Tower! The 'Princes in the Tower'...the children
      > of Edward IV!!!...and then blamed it on Richard III,
      > LOL
      > Jane/isis
      >
      What is actually most likely is that the former Edward V died of
      natural causes and Shrewsbury? Either
      i) Executed at Tyburn in 1499 (WROE) under the name Warbeck
      ii) Died in 1550 as Richard of Eastwell (BALDWIN); allowed to live as
      a bricklayer but not to reproduce or
      iii) We don't know.

      > --- Anne Gilbert <avgilbert@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Kevin:
      > >
      > > I don't know if Henry VIII "rewrote history to some
      > > extent to make his
      > > father seem better than he actually was", but once
      > > his father assumed
      > > the throne, it wasn't safe to say anything much that
      > > was good about his
      > > immediate predecessors.
      > > Anne G
      > >
      > > Kevin O'Malley wrote:
      > > > I could be wrong - but didn't Henry VIII rewrite
      > > history to some
      > > > extent to make his father seem better than he
      > > actually was?
      > > >
      > > > Kevin
      > > >
      > > > */"S.Kevin Wojtaszek" <skevin1@...>/*
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > OK~
      > > >
      > > > Though I wouldn't mind lurking behind banter
      > > about pre-norman
      > > > times, someone said something here that piqued
      > > me a few weeks back.
      > > >
      > > > A Tudor-loving member stated that they knew
      > > little about pre-tudor
      > > > sovereigns. IMHO, I can't imagine a Henry VIII
      > > who didn't see
      > > > himself as the Ultimate Plantagenet. (the
      > > whole invading France
      > > > thing is SO Eddie III and Henry V) I also
      > > think that Elizabeth One
      > > > never forgot that her great-grandmother
      > > _Elizabeth_ Woodville was
      > > > also accused of witchcraft.
      > > >
      > > > I'd be interested in hearing others speculate
      > > about how the Tudors
      > > > saw their predecessors.
      > > >
      > > > ~S. Kevin
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----
      > > > To: sceptredisle@yahoogroups.com
      > > > From: brerkev@...
      > > > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:07:00 -0700
      > > > Subject: Re: [sceptredisle] Re: What else
      > > would we like to
      > > > discuss?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > My favorite point of English history is
      > > the 16th century - Tudors.
      > > >
      > > > Kevin
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > /"I can only say that I am a poor sinner,
      > > trusting in Christ
      > > > alone for salvation"
      > > > -General Robert E. Lee, 1864/
      > > >
      > >
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      > > > /"I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting
      > > in Christ alone for
      > > > salvation"
      > > > -General Robert E. Lee, 1864/
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    • Anne Gilbert
      James: It seems to me, at this point, that you do not /*want*/ to really define what you mean. When the rest of us argue with your propositions, you simply
      Message 127 of 127 , Oct 7, 2007


        James:

        It seems to me, at this point, that you do not want to really define what you mean.  When the rest of us argue with your propositions, you simply claim nobody is answering you.  Unfortunately, and this is based on my own readings, you are off the mark here.  The principle of "security" in nations or states is not "strange", exactly, but most don't put "security" as the first priority.  "Security" is important; however, it only assumes importance(to any state) when it appears to be threatened.  Worse, you seem to have an entirely modern concept of a "state".  These did not exist --- anywhere --- at least not in Europe, during the time period we are discussing.  And you can't seem to grasp this.
        Anne G


        >
        Ok. As I do not really need my points made for me, or rather, I see
        no need for points I do not make being the focus of counterpoints, I
        will post no more on this. If the concept of security seems strange
        in a discussion of the principles of nations or states, then whatever
        there is to be learnt from history will be lost to fiction and
        fantasy.
        >
        >


        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.4/1055 - Release Date: 10/7/2007 10:24 AM

        --- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000778-5, 10/06/2007 Tested on: 10/7/2007 12:31:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com



        avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.

        Virus Database (VPS): 000778-5, 10/06/2007
        Tested on: 10/7/2007 1:30:46 PM
        avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.


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