Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA Newcomers] Persona / Garb / Accesories Question (kind of long)

Expand Messages
  • Janet
    Ok, where to start.... ... my persona was of English decent but wore garb from materials not common to England at the time, would that be period ? Of course
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 12, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Ok, where to start....
      >>>>>My question is, as far as authenticity goes? If I were to say that
      my persona was of English decent but wore garb from materials not
      common to England at the time, would that be "period"? Of course as
      long as the cloth was around at the time. Could my persona have been
      a traveler or kinda like a hermit that just moved around a lot from
      place to place? Could I have worn suede boots but made in the
      pattern that was common in England at the time? Could I have carried
      a dagger that was not common to the place im from but is still
      period?

      Normally, one doesn't "mix and match" cultures/times in one outfit unless you can find evidence of the specific cultures in question "mixing and matching" items with other cultures at the time. Now, that brings up the authenticity question. How authentic you are is completely up to your own standards of authenticity. If you're comfortable with mixing and matching, well, do it if you must.

      Secondly, regarding individual outfits, your garb does not always have to match your persona. Lots of people with french personas and such have been showing up in Middle Eastern garb lately. If you like a style of garb, wear it.

      >>>>>>The reason for this post is I would like to be a kind of nomad. I
      find most info online is more on English history but find bits and
      pieces of other cultures. Also I like to make my own garb (not a
      good sewer)and equipment. ut I don't really want to stay true to one
      culture. I mean there had to be nobles that just up and went
      whenever they liked. Stole away on a ship perhaps or just packed
      light and hunted and just kept moving.

      There are some cases such as the Crusaders who left home and were gone for a long time. I would guess that some of the Crusaders adopted some middle eastern attire (hmmmm....wear robes and what not or cooked to death in the sun? You choose) There are several mercenary groups throught out time that travelled and fought. They definately started off with the clothes of their home country, but as mercenaries, they probably got some clothes and trinkets once in a while along with their $$$$. The mongols are pretty cool as far as nomadic peoples go. I doubt that they would have picked up too many clothes/accessories from other peoples, but their clothes are pretty spiffy and easy to make (even my boyfriend with basic sewing ability can make pants and dels.)

      Regarding your persona, don't feel like you have to explain away chosing to wear garb from another country with some story or another. It's one thing if you want to be a nomad. It's another if you make up some complicated story about why you can wear different articles of clothes. (I believe there was a post on one of the two SCA newbie type yahoo lists about the notorious stories of "kidnapped at birth, raised with such and such group, married off to another group, widowed, remarried....etc.")

      >>>>>>If there is anywhere I can discus this other than here please feel
      free to point me in the right direction. I am very new to all this
      and would like to get involved as much as possible. It seems like
      most info has to have been documented in some way. I have found
      things mostly online that I would possibly follow but once again I
      just don't want to stay still =)

      If you are interested in different types of garb, you may want to pop-in on the yahoo group for SCA Garb. Lots of very knowledgeable ladies (and quite a few gentlemen as well) who have advice on all aspects of garb, from selecting styles and fabrics to drafting and using patterns. Many of them are very experienced seamstresses and tend to use lots of technical terms, but if you let them know about your skill level, they can break things down to whatever level necessary for you to understand.

      There are many yahoo groups for different cultures, etc. I know there is a mongol list. Just go to the yahoo groups site and type in "SCA+(group of interest)" in the search window and you should come up with a list.

      As far as documentation goes, again, that is up to your own level of authenticity. All the SCA corpora requires is "an attempt at pre-1600 garb" (or something pretty close to that). I won't lie, I have some cotton flannel dresses (I'm 99% sure cotton flannel wasn't period to the stye of dresses) and I wear them all the time when it's cold because they are so warm and comfy and I got the fabric for a dollar a yard at wal~mart. I do try to document as much as possible, but this is a game and well, mundane expenses come first before I get to buy fabric.

      Sorry for the long-windedness. I hope this was helpful.

      In service,
      Isabel of the Legion of the Night Mare
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
      http://new.mail.yahoo.com
    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/12/2006 1:10:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drunken-savage@sbcglobal.net writes:
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 12, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 11/12/2006 1:10:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        drunken-savage@... writes:

        <<My question is, as far as authenticity goes? If I were to say that
        my persona was of English decent but wore garb from materials not
        common to England at the time, would that be "period"? Of course as
        long as the cloth was around at the time. Could my persona have been
        a traveler or kinda like a hermit that just moved around a lot from
        place to place? ..

        The only garb rule in the SCA is that you have to wear an attempt at
        clothing from before 1600. There is no rule saying that al lof your clothes and
        accessories must be from the same culture and time. By trying to keep to one
        time period, if not one culture, you'd be doing better than many folks old and
        new alike. Items from other cultures WERE usually available in very small
        quantities and very expensive. For instance, someone in England might have had
        silk clothing pretty much any time after the first Crusade, but they would
        have paid through the nose for it. Same with Egyptian cotton.

        I myself am far more authenticity minded than the average Scadian. For me,
        it's NOT an attempt at medieval clothing if you have knowingly combined
        things that were highly unlikely to be combined - for instance, a 13th century
        Japanese sword with 13th century English clothes - there was no contact between
        the two cultures in the 13th century and the chances of a Japanese sword
        making it's way to England would be vanishingly rare. On the other hand, the
        chances of a 13th century Middle Eastern sword making its way back from the
        Crusades would be much higher. I still wouldn't combine the two personally, but
        it's at least historically plausible.

        Of course, these standards apply only to me. One of the beauties (and in
        some ways, one of the downfalls) of the SCA is that each person gets to decide
        how far along the continuum to authenticity is the right place for them.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rob
        Greetings Ok so merchant / trader is an option. As far as Elves go, I d prefer a Gnome they can get into small holes to hide =) (just kidding, well kinda, they
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 12, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Greetings

          Ok so merchant / trader is an option. As far as Elves go, I'd prefer
          a Gnome they can get into small holes to hide =) (just kidding, well
          kinda, they can) I actually want to keep it simple in a way. I just
          would really like to incorporate cotton into my garb. As well as
          some more decorative items. Cotton is easy to come by and less
          expensive than most other materials for me as a beginning sewer .
          And as far as the rest of the items, I would just like to have a
          persona with a little more diversity with the garb/weapons and
          items. I wouldn't mix times lines, just regions and of course
          nothing that wasn't plausible. If my persona was from the 1300's I
          wouldn't have a 1500 item or garb. And wouldn't have an item that
          was from Mexico or as mentioned Japan if the region wasn't known at
          the time. But having an English back ground but Viking garb or
          Middle Eastern is acceptable than this is more of what I was trying
          to say. I am just horrible at trying to explain through forum's. I
          am aware that Vikings mostly wore wool. Also if I happened to be a
          trader or traveling merchant wouldn't I have been able to barter for
          some of these more rare or expensive materials, such as silk and
          cotton? I posted in the garb section about cotton as garb but posted
          this here to get some mixing Garb thought's from people with more
          knowledge on the subject.

          The replays are welcomed and I that you all for them. As I have
          mentioned this is all new and I would not want to end up looking
          like the village fool (to late =D) Just curious as to what is
          acceptable and what is more nonsense than anything.

          Thank You All Again
          Robert the village fool that fell asleep in a wagon and ended up in
          the Middle East =)
        • johnwylekin
          This was an outstanding explanation, and thank you, Brangwayna. I ve been thinking a lot about SCA clothing and accoutrements, etc., and your explanation
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 14, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            This was an outstanding explanation, and thank you, Brangwayna.
            I've been thinking a lot about SCA clothing and accoutrements, etc.,
            and your explanation helped clarify the ambiguity of many, many SCA
            weblinks.

            For personal reasons I am sticking with my name since both the first
            (Christian) name and surname were around the time period (1100-1200
            AD) I've been looking at, only the surname was a different spelling.

            These past two years have been a renewal for me in many ways, and I
            think carrying my "real-life" persona into SCA would be perfect. I
            know many think this is uncreative, but my only sophisticated
            defense and explanation can be "it works for me."

            My family was primarily Norman it seems (I've only just begun to
            research this and have more general info. rather than specific), and
            the name showed up in it's earliest form in Germania.

            Can anyone recommend good genealogy/ancestry sites? And I apologize
            for not throwing common SCA terms around, because, well... I'm new
            to SCA!

            Thanks again Brangwayna!

            Good luck to all new and veteran SCAndals.

            I've sent inquiry emails to Ansteorra/Steppes contacts, and haven't
            received replies yet. If there is anyone in that kingdom, give me
            a shout and let me know your experience here so far!

            --jw

            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 11/12/2006 1:10:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            > drunken-savage@... writes:
            >
            > <<My question is, as far as authenticity goes? If I were to say
            that
            > my persona was of English decent but wore garb from materials not
            > common to England at the time, would that be "period"? Of course
            as
            > long as the cloth was around at the time. Could my persona have
            been
            > a traveler or kinda like a hermit that just moved around a lot
            from
            > place to place? ..
            >
            > The only garb rule in the SCA is that you have to wear an attempt
            at
            > clothing from before 1600. There is no rule saying that al lof
            your clothes and
            > accessories must be from the same culture and time. By trying to
            keep to one
            > time period, if not one culture, you'd be doing better than many
            folks old and
            > new alike. Items from other cultures WERE usually available in
            very small
            > quantities and very expensive. For instance, someone in England
            might have had
            > silk clothing pretty much any time after the first Crusade, but
            they would
            > have paid through the nose for it. Same with Egyptian cotton.
            >
            > I myself am far more authenticity minded than the average
            Scadian. For me,
            > it's NOT an attempt at medieval clothing if you have knowingly
            combined
            > things that were highly unlikely to be combined - for instance, a
            13th century
            > Japanese sword with 13th century English clothes - there was no
            contact between
            > the two cultures in the 13th century and the chances of a
            Japanese sword
            > making it's way to England would be vanishingly rare. On the
            other hand, the
            > chances of a 13th century Middle Eastern sword making its way
            back from the
            > Crusades would be much higher. I still wouldn't combine the two
            personally, but
            > it's at least historically plausible.
            >
            > Of course, these standards apply only to me. One of the beauties
            (and in
            > some ways, one of the downfalls) of the SCA is that each person
            gets to decide
            > how far along the continuum to authenticity is the right place
            for them.
            >
            >
            > Brangwayna Morgan
            > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            > Lancaster, PA
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.