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  • Kier Devin
    Just wanted to drop a line and say hi... I m new to SCA, haven t actually joined yet. I ve fought in other groups, and once or twice with SCA, just never
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
      Just wanted to drop a line and say hi... I'm new to SCA, haven't
      actually joined yet. I've fought in other groups, and once or twice
      with SCA, just never joined. I'm curious, anyone know how long of a
      grace period I'd have before paying my first years dues? I'm wanting
      to get the family membership (since I love sword-fighting, my wife
      loves making things (she sells stuff at ren-faires), and my daughter
      likes the ren faires (hope she'll like this too..) ), but I've got alot
      going on right now, with helping to open a new ren faire. I live just
      outside Waco, TX. I'm going to go out to the park this weekend.
      Anyone with any advice for new members, I'm open...:)

      -Charles
      aka
      Kier Devin de Alan Bastian
      www.magickbymorgan.com
      www.middlefaire.net
    • Sara L Uckelman
      ... There s no real requirement that you ever pay dues. If you want to become an officer, run an event, fight or be fought for in a Crown Tournament, then you
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
        Quoth "Kier Devin":
        > with SCA, just never joined. I'm curious, anyone know how long of a
        > grace period I'd have before paying my first years dues? I'm wanting

        There's no real requirement that you ever pay dues. If you want to
        become an officer, run an event, fight or be fought for in a Crown
        Tournament, then you have to be a paid member, but otherwise, no
        one is going to track you down and make you pay your dues until you're
        ready to do so.

        There is an extra $3 fee added to event costs if you're not a member,
        so you can end up saving money in the long run by becoming a paid
        member. But there's no need to rush out and get your membership
        right away.

        -Aryanhwy




        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
      • Jibril ibn Najdah ibn Zayd al-`Attar
        ... Answer: Indefinite. You don t HAVE to be a paid member to play with the SCA. The perks of being a paid member include discounted site fees, your Kingdom s
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
          Kier asks:
          > I'm curious, anyone know how long of a grace period I'd have before paying my first
          > years dues?

          Answer: Indefinite.

          You don't HAVE to be a paid member to play with the SCA. The perks of
          being a paid member include discounted site fees, your Kingdom's
          newsletter, and in some Kingdoms...the ability to receive certain
          awards. [[Calontir does NOT have a membership requirement for its AoA
          and GoA awards...]]

          As for your location, it looks like you're in the Shire of Emerald
          Keep, in the Kingdom of Ansteorra. If you've not found your local
          group yet, here's their homepage:
          http://emerald-keep.ansteorra.org/

          Until the next time,
          Jibril ibn Najdah ibn Zayd al-`Attar
          Shire of Deodar, Kingdom of Calontir
        • Kier Devin
          hey, That s cool, thanx for the info... I m planning on being a paid member, just like I said I ve got so much going on right now...:) Help being able to put
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
            hey,

            That's cool, thanx for the info... I'm planning on being a paid
            member, just like I said I've got so much going on right now...:)
            Help being able to put off paying till next month...:) Thanks
            again...:)

            -Charles
            aka
            Kier Devin de Alan Bastian
            www.magickbymorgan.com
            www.middlefaire.com


            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Quoth "Kier Devin":
            > > with SCA, just never joined. I'm curious, anyone know how long
            of a
            > > grace period I'd have before paying my first years dues? I'm
            wanting
            >
            > There's no real requirement that you ever pay dues. If you want to
            > become an officer, run an event, fight or be fought for in a Crown
            > Tournament, then you have to be a paid member, but otherwise, no
            > one is going to track you down and make you pay your dues until
            you're
            > ready to do so.
            >
            > There is an extra $3 fee added to event costs if you're not a
            member,
            > so you can end up saving money in the long run by becoming a paid
            > member. But there's no need to rush out and get your membership
            > right away.
            >
            > -Aryanhwy
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > vita sine literis mors est
            > http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
            >
          • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
            ... The requirement that family memberships be bought at the same time as the sustaining memberships to which they re attached caused us to postpone joining,
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
              Kier Devin de Alan Bastian wrote:
              > . . .I'm curious, anyone know how long of a grace period I'd have
              > before paying my first years dues? I'm wanting to get the family
              > membership. . .but I've got alot going on right now, with helping to
              > open a new ren faire.. . .I live just outside Waco, TX.

              The requirement that family memberships be bought at the same time as
              the sustaining memberships to which they're attached caused us to
              postpone joining, too. Sometimes it takes a while to free up that much
              cash all at once.

              Paid membership has several advantages. You get your kingdom's
              newsletter (the Black Star, in this case), which will let you know
              about changes in kingdom and society rules, kingdom-level and regional
              positions that are opening up, events throughout the kingdom, etc.
              You're eligible to hold office. You are included in official
              population counts (which are part of what determines your branch's
              status) and polls. You have the option of filing a waiver with the
              Society instead of signing a new one at each event you attend. And you
              don't have to pay the $3.00 nonmember surcharge at each event.

              Paid membership is, however, NEVER required for attendance at an event,
              fighter practice, or guild meeting, or most other SCA activities. You
              don't need to be a paid member to be granted titles or awards. And you
              don't have to be a paid member to volunteer to steward an event or
              serve as guild principal, at least in Ansteorra. There are people
              who've been participating in Society activities for decades who are not
              paid members of the SCA.

              So, take your time, and don't sweat it. Around here, at least, it's
              considered bad form to even ask if somebody's a member, unless you're
              signing them in at gate. And, frankly, nobody really cares.

              By the way, thanks for telling us where you are. It allowed me to
              comment with confidence on details that I'm sure are correct for our
              kingdom, but might not have been if you were somewhere else. I
              encourage you to include that info (or at least the word "Ansteorra")
              if you have other questions to ask in future, for that reason.


              Coblaith Mhuimhneach
              Barony of Bryn Gwlad
              Kingdom of Ansteorra
              <mailto:Coblaith@...>
            • Jeff Suzuki
              ... Depending on how many events you go to, of course; it s *barely* worth it for us. (But we hope to increase our involvement) Jeffs/etc.
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                --- Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:

                > There is an extra $3 fee added to event costs if
                > you're not a member,
                > so you can end up saving money in the long run by
                > becoming a paid
                > member.

                Depending on how many events you go to, of course;
                it's *barely* worth it for us. (But we hope to
                increase our involvement)

                Jeffs/etc.

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              • Aurelia / Amanda
                That got me thinking... What is the difference with family vs single dues. I have a 4 year old son that attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight that
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                  That got me thinking... What is the difference with family vs single dues. I have a 4 year old son that attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight that is a paying member. We will be getting somtime Fall of 2007. Any ideas on what I should do?

                  Aurelia of Bodiam
                  Middle Kingdom
                  http://myspace.com/diamondaurelia


                  Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                  Kier Devin de Alan Bastian wrote:
                  > . . .I'm curious, anyone know how long of a grace period I'd have
                  > before paying my first years dues? I'm wanting to get the family
                  > membership. . .but I've got alot going on right now, with helping to
                  > open a new ren faire.. . .I live just outside Waco, TX.

                  The requirement that family memberships be bought at the same time as
                  the sustaining memberships to which they're attached caused us to
                  postpone joining, too. Sometimes it takes a while to free up that much
                  cash all at once.

                  Paid membership has several advantages. You get your kingdom's
                  newsletter (the Black Star, in this case), which will let you know
                  about changes in kingdom and society rules, kingdom-level and regional
                  positions that are opening up, events throughout the kingdom, etc.
                  You're eligible to hold office. You are included in official
                  population counts (which are part of what determines your branch's
                  status) and polls. You have the option of filing a waiver with the
                  Society instead of signing a new one at each event you attend. And you
                  don't have to pay the $3.00 nonmember surcharge at each event.

                  Paid membership is, however, NEVER required for attendance at an event,
                  fighter practice, or guild meeting, or most other SCA activities. You
                  don't need to be a paid member to be granted titles or awards. And you
                  don't have to be a paid member to volunteer to steward an event or
                  serve as guild principal, at least in Ansteorra. There are people
                  who've been participating in Society activities for decades who are not
                  paid members of the SCA.

                  So, take your time, and don't sweat it. Around here, at least, it's
                  considered bad form to even ask if somebody's a member, unless you're
                  signing them in at gate. And, frankly, nobody really cares.

                  By the way, thanks for telling us where you are. It allowed me to
                  comment with confidence on details that I'm sure are correct for our
                  kingdom, but might not have been if you were somewhere else. I
                  encourage you to include that info (or at least the word "Ansteorra")
                  if you have other questions to ask in future, for that reason.

                  Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                  Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                  Kingdom of Ansteorra
                  <mailto:Coblaith@...>






                  ---------------------------------
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                • Kier Devin
                  Wow, Thanks for all the advice from everyone...:) Well, so far, just from me asking those questions, I m confident that joining the SCA is going to be a much
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                    Wow, Thanks for all the advice from everyone...:) Well, so far, just
                    from me asking those questions, I'm confident that joining the SCA is
                    going to be a much better affiliation than I had with other groups I
                    checked out...:) Again, thanx everyone! :)

                    -Charles
                    aka
                    Kier Devin de Alan Bastian
                    www.magickbymorgan.com
                    www.middlefaire.net
                  • Jeff Suzuki
                    ... As nearly as I can tell, the only thing you get for your membership is you don t pay the $3 surcharge, plus you get a significant discount as Pensic. (The
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                      --- Aurelia / Amanda <mom62702@...> wrote:

                      > That got me thinking... What is the difference with
                      > family vs single dues. I have a 4 year old son that
                      > attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight
                      > that is a paying member. We will be getting somtime
                      > Fall of 2007. Any ideas on what I should do?

                      As nearly as I can tell, the only thing you get for
                      your membership is you don't pay the $3 surcharge,
                      plus you get a significant discount as Pensic. (The
                      Pensic discount *is* worth the cost of membership,
                      incidentally)

                      The added cost per family member is $10, with a
                      maximum of $25 collected. At that rate, it's worth it
                      if you go to more than 3 events a year.

                      Now, the surcharge is only charged when there's an
                      event fee (and some groups deliberately run "donation
                      only" events...long story). So if you go to a free
                      event, or the event doesn't charge for your son,
                      there's no surcharge.

                      Jeffs/etc.

                      __________________________________________________
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                    • Aurelia / Amanda
                      Is there a large discount for Gulf Wars for paying members. We are planning on attending that in the Spring. ... As nearly as I can tell, the only thing you
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                        Is there a large discount for Gulf Wars for paying members. We are planning on attending that in the Spring.

                        Jeff Suzuki <jeff_suzuki@...> wrote: --- Aurelia / Amanda <mom62702@...> wrote:

                        > That got me thinking... What is the difference with
                        > family vs single dues. I have a 4 year old son that
                        > attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight
                        > that is a paying member. We will be getting somtime
                        > Fall of 2007. Any ideas on what I should do?

                        As nearly as I can tell, the only thing you get for
                        your membership is you don't pay the $3 surcharge,
                        plus you get a significant discount as Pensic. (The
                        Pensic discount *is* worth the cost of membership,
                        incidentally)

                        The added cost per family member is $10, with a
                        maximum of $25 collected. At that rate, it's worth it
                        if you go to more than 3 events a year.

                        Now, the surcharge is only charged when there's an
                        event fee (and some groups deliberately run "donation
                        only" events...long story). So if you go to a free
                        event, or the event doesn't charge for your son,
                        there's no surcharge.

                        Jeffs/etc.

                        __________________________________________________
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                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                        Aurelia of Bodiam
                        http://myspace.com/diamondaurelia

                        All is possible when you have someone who believes in you...


                        ---------------------------------
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                      • Steve Rourke
                        ... Mostly correct but a couple minor points, to be an Event Steward you do have to be a paid member, and in some Kingdoms you do have to be a member to
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                          > Paid membership is, however, NEVER required for attendance at an event,
                          > fighter practice, or guild meeting, or most other SCA activities. You
                          > don't need to be a paid member to be granted titles or awards. And you
                          > don't have to be a paid member to volunteer to steward an event or
                          > serve as guild principal, at least in Ansteorra. There are people
                          > who've been participating in Society activities for decades who are not
                          > paid members of the SCA.
                          >
                          Mostly correct but a couple minor points, to be an Event Steward you do have
                          to be a paid member, and in some Kingdoms you do have to be a member to
                          receive awards but not in Ansteorra (this is just here purely for
                          clarification).

                          Kier,
                          If I can suggest you might enjoy reading the Guiding Hand which is a
                          newcomer guide that is geared to those in Ansteorra, it is located at
                          http://hospitaler.ansteorra.org/GuidingHand/guidhan1.htm I found it very
                          helpful when I moved to Texas and decided to get involved with the SCA down
                          here. The people in Emerald Keep are a friendly group and I'm sure you will
                          get a lot of help from them if you need it.

                          Domhnall Dubh O'Ruairc
                          Eclipse Herald (at least for two more days)
                          Former Regional Hospitaler
                          Shire of Loch Ruadh
                          Kingdom of Ansteorra
                        • Megan & Dave
                          The corporate offices have stated (or possibly just asked for comment) that a family is two adults, and as many minor children in residence at the same address
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 28, 2006
                            The corporate offices have stated (or possibly just asked for comment) that
                            a family is two adults, and as many minor children in residence at the same
                            address (or children residing at a different address with whom custody is
                            shared.) This was to combat the regretably more frequent misuse of the
                            'family' discount memberships.

                            The NMS (non-member surcharge) applies to any full price or adult site fee.
                            If there is any sort of discount for kids they are then exempt from the fee.
                            To the best of my knowledge, this exemption doesn't apply if there is a
                            discount for seniors.

                            I would wait, and send in as a family during his regular 2007 renewal.
                            (Unless it's after Pennsic and then I'd get the associate which doesn't get
                            you the newsletter or anything, but does get you the discounts.) The
                            associate membership is $20.00 and last year the discount was $25.00 for a
                            member.

                            You probably don't need to get a membership for you son here in the Middle
                            as a proposed law change was put up for comment last spring to fix site fees
                            including a fixed discount for children, which will make them exempt from
                            the NMS.

                            Gwenhyfar Stuart,
                            Starleaf Gate, Midrealm.




                            > --- Aurelia / Amanda <> wrote:
                            >
                            >> That got me thinking... What is the difference with
                            >> family vs single dues. I have a 4 year old son that
                            >> attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight
                            >> that is a paying member. We will be getting somtime
                            >> Fall of 2007. Any ideas on what I should do?
                            >
                          • Jibril ibn Najdah ibn Zayd al-`Attar
                            ... That is quite true. If you figure that membership for one person is $35, you d have to be attending at least ONE event a month to recover that cost. So if
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 29, 2006
                              Jeffs/etc. states:
                              > Depending on how many events you go to, of course; it's *barely* worth it for us. (But
                              > we hope to increase our involvement)

                              That is quite true. If you figure that membership for one person is
                              $35, you'd have to be attending at least ONE event a month to recover
                              that cost. So if you're attending more than one event a month, or the
                              larger Wars...then a membership will definitely be worthwhile in
                              saving on the NMS (non-member surcharge) costs.

                              For myself...I get to at least 2 events a month, plus Lilies War. So a
                              membership is definitely saving me something. [[And thankfully I can
                              apply those savings to gas and travel expenses. *LOL*]]

                              Giudo / Jibril (circle one)
                            • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                              ... An Event Steward is a Deputy Seneschal during the tenure of their duty in that capacity. That is why Event Stewards need to be members. I m sure that
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 29, 2006
                                On Thursday 28 September 2006 19:01, Steve Rourke wrote:
                                > Mostly correct but a couple minor points, to be an Event Steward you do have
                                > to be a paid member,

                                An Event Steward is a Deputy Seneschal during the tenure of their duty in
                                that capacity. That is why Event Stewards need to be members. I'm sure
                                that people get away with being an Event Steward as non-members all the
                                time, because people forget to check up on such things when planning an
                                event, but technically they should be members.

                                Justin

                                --
                                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                                ... (Putting on a different hat for a moment.... I am the Chief Technical Officer of the SCA, Inc., which means I am in charge of the corporate-level
                                Message 15 of 17 , Sep 29, 2006
                                  On Thursday 28 September 2006 16:52, Coblaith Mhuimhneach wrote:
                                  > The requirement that family memberships be bought at the same time as
                                  > the sustaining memberships to which they're attached caused us to
                                  > postpone joining, too.  Sometimes it takes a while to free up that much
                                  > cash all at once.

                                  (Putting on a different hat for a moment.... I am the Chief Technical
                                  Officer of the SCA, Inc., which means I am in charge of the corporate-level
                                  computer systems including the sca.org web site.)

                                  I'm sorry for that, but we really don't have any other way to keep track
                                  of the "attachment" between the primary membership (which must be a
                                  subscribing membership) and the associated family membership(s). If we
                                  let you buy the family membership later, there would have to be a way to
                                  identify the primary, and that would require exposing the primary member's
                                  personal information to someone whose identity we can't verify (because
                                  we're not personally seeing them to ask for photo ID).

                                  It's basically a logistics and technical issue; there was no intent to
                                  cause financial hardship or "gouge" anyone. (And no, I didn't feel that
                                  you were accusing anything like that -- I just thought you might appreciate
                                  knowing that there is a good reason for the restriction, rather than it
                                  being just some bureaucrat's arbitrary choice.)

                                  Kind regards,

                                  Justin

                                  (Now returning to my normal identity as List Moderator.)

                                  --
                                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                                  ... And as an FYI, that $3 surcharge isn t meant as a penalty to non-members. Rather, it s an attempt to recover actual costs that the SCA incurs for things
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Sep 29, 2006
                                    On Thursday 28 September 2006 16:24, Sara L Uckelman wrote:
                                    > There is an extra $3 fee added to event costs if you're not a member,
                                    > so you can end up saving money in the long run by becoming a paid
                                    > member.  But there's no need to rush out and get your membership
                                    > right away.

                                    And as an FYI, that $3 surcharge isn't meant as a penalty to non-members.
                                    Rather, it's an attempt to recover actual costs that the SCA incurs for
                                    things like liability insurance. When a local branch rents an event site,
                                    the SCA provides a liability insurance policy that costs quite a lot of
                                    money every year. Everyone -- including nonmembers -- benefits from that
                                    insurance, because without it many site owners wouldn't allow the SCA to
                                    use their facilities. The surcharge ensures that paid members don't unfairly
                                    subsidize this cost for everyone else.

                                    The $3 surcharge probably doesn't cover the full cost that a nonmember
                                    brings to the organization, because insurance is *expensive* these days,
                                    especially in the litigious U.S.A. But apparently the Board of Directors
                                    felt that this amount was a reasonable compromise between ignoring the
                                    problem versus imposing an unacceptable burden on people who -- quite
                                    legitimately -- want to "try out" the SCA before committing $25 or more
                                    to become members. There was a lot of debate within the organization about
                                    the need to balance cost recovery against a desire not to discourage new
                                    people from visiting a couple of events to see if they like the Current
                                    Middle Ages. I don't envy the BoD having to make that tough decision.

                                    Justin

                                    --
                                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                    Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                    keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                  • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                    ... Three categories of membership in the S.C.A. are available to individuals in the U.S. Associate Members have the right to apply for and hold office, the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Sep 29, 2006
                                      Aurelia of Bodiam wrote:
                                      > What is the difference with family vs single dues. I have a 4 year
                                      > old son that attends events with me. I am engaged to a knight that is
                                      > a paying member. We will be getting somtime Fall of 2007.

                                      Three categories of membership in the S.C.A. are available to
                                      individuals in the U.S. Associate Members have the right to apply for
                                      and hold office, the opportunity to keep waivers on file rather than
                                      signing a new one for every activity, and exemption from the Non-Member
                                      Surcharge at events, and are included in official population counts and
                                      polls. Sustaining Members receive those benefits along with
                                      subscriptions to their kingdoms� newsletters and the eligibility of
                                      their co-resident immediate families for Family Memberships. Family
                                      Members enjoy all the privileges of an Associate Membership, at no more
                                      than half the price. (Since there is a cap on the total amount charged
                                      to a single family, those families with more than two Family Members
                                      save even more.)

                                      You have, therefore, two options where your current family is
                                      concerned. You can make yourself a Sustaining Member, and your son a
                                      Family Member, at a total cost (currently) of $45 per year. Or you can
                                      both be Associate Members, at a total cost of $40, and not get your
                                      kingdom newsletter. After your marriage, you can do three Associate
                                      Memberships for $60 (and get no kingdom newsletter) or one Sustaining
                                      Membership and two Family Memberships for $55. (Of course, as we've
                                      discussed, any or all of you could elect to participate in Society
                                      activities without actually joining the SCA.)

                                      You can read about membership categories in the Corporate Policies,
                                      which are included in the SCA Organizational Handbook
                                      <http://sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf>, but it hasn't yet been updated to
                                      reflect recent changes in the definition of "family" for the purposes
                                      of Family Membership. (Family Membership is now extended to only one
                                      adult for every Sustaining Member in a household. The rules for minors
                                      haven't changed.)


                                      Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                      Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                                      Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                      <mailto:Coblaith@...>


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