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Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... had to join in. I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people in the
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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      In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      dalyboyd@... writes:
      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:

      >>Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
      had to join in.
      I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
      in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
      you're on your own, newbie."
      I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
      has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
      I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
      meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
      the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
      includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
      the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
      that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
      Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
      You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
      your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
      to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
      efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
      apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
      guild/household and be accepted officially.
      Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
      to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
      me. And, I am way past those years.
      I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
      this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.>>

      Good heavens! That is absolutely appalling. No, that is absolutely not a
      typical attitude. We had a family of four newcomers, one of whose children is
      handicapped, come to an event this weekend. The only person in the group
      who had spoken to them prior to the event was the chatelaine, who also happened
      to be the autocrat.
      By all observation and speaking to them, they had a great time. By the end
      of Saturday, they had been helping keep track of the younger children, had
      been able to assist in lighting a stove which was being finicky, had watched
      and talked with the fighters arming for a tournament, and had sat at dinner
      with the chatelaine and her family. By Sunday evening, three of the 4 had
      participated in a game of longball ( a period version of baseball) including the
      handicapped boy, had chatted with just about everybody on site, and the
      daughter had joined enthusiastically in the dancing. This morning they were
      included in the group as if they had been with us for years. Mind you, they are
      all outgoing folks; that certainly helps. Another newcomer also played in the
      game and was talking and beginning to play with the musicians by the time he
      left the event.

      It is true that in the SCA you earn your honors and awards. However, honors
      and awards are not the same as friendship or even simple courtesy. There is
      NO excuse for being rude and exclusionary to newcomers. Nor are you
      expected, much less required, to "find your speciality and develop it on your own in
      hopes of being noticed and accepted". That is absolute rubbish. What
      should be happening is that your chatelaine should be taking notes of your
      interests and pointing you at the people who already do those things so they can
      help you along and teach you, or at least be available to tell you who is
      knowledgeable in that area when you come and ask.
      Yes, people who help at events tend to be welcomed with more open arms then
      those who sit back and expect to be catered to; that's to be expected in a
      society that runs entirely on volunteer labor. But an apprenticeship or
      membership in a guild or household are certainly not something that needs to happen
      for you to be accepted; in fact I earned one of the society's highest
      awards, one which traditionally involves an apprenticeship, never once having been
      asked or considering asking for an apprenticeship.

      If you would care to send me that chatelaine's name and group information, I
      think a little chat with his/her superior is in order to set this person
      straight. He/she is doing a grave disservice to the society if that is what
      newcomers are getting from speaking to him/her. Having been a chatelaine myself
      for many years, I am more than willing to take this up.

      Brangwayna Morgan
      bronwynmgn@...
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Maria
      Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don t want to say
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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        Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want to say anything bad about other groups.

        That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ... nice language.

        Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large group of people together you also get the people who don't really know how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of the Chatelaine).

        If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me privately at scarlettmb@... and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be able to help you.

        Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal of all newcomers.

        I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to some people who will really help.

        In Service to the Dream,
        Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
        Maria Buchanan
        Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
        Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
        281-433-0347
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Daly
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
        >
        Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
        had to join in.
        I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
        in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
        you're on your own, newbie."
        I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
        has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
        I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
        meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
        the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
        includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
        the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
        that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
        Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
        You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
        your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
        to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
        efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
        apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
        guild/household and be accepted officially.
        Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
        to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
        me. And, I am way past those years.
        I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
        this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
        Thanks, Daly

        > Thanks for the boisterous response!
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of David Roland
        > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
        >
        > YAY! Welcome back!
        >
        > Ian the Green
        >
        > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
        > >
        > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
        > experience
        > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
        > try it
        > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
        and
        > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
        > will
        > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
        NOT
        > like.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com]
        > > On Behalf Of Janet
        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
        > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
        > >
        > > I almost had this same problem...
        > > There was a household in my area that was causing
        > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
        > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
        > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
        > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
        > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
        > > many people in your local group (and also the
        > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
        > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
        > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
        > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
        > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
        > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
        > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
        > > new friends you can make).
        > >
        > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
        net>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
        > > > I first found the
        > > > SCA.
        > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
        > > > were willing to help
        > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
        > > > giving poor advice and
        > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
        > > > not the people I
        > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
        > > > the stigma that
        > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
        > > > them. Yup really wish I
        > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > yahoogroups.com
        > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > yahoogroups.com]
        > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
        > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
        > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
        > > > Newcomers
        > > >
        > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
        > > >
        > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
        > > > known as the Grey
        > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
        > > > that the older
        > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
        > > > often heard them
        > > > giving their own versions.
        > > >
        > > > And this is what I say:
        > > >
        > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
        > > > what you like and
        > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
        > > > never thought
        > > > you would. But a word of advice.
        > > >
        > > > In your first year DON'T.
        > > >
        > > > That's right DON'T.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T register a name.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T register a device.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
        > > > apprenticeship or squiring
        > > > or other such thing.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
        > > > it you are more
        > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
        > > > change it but
        > > > once people are used to calling you something
        > > > they're gonna keep on
        > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
        > > > or persona
        > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
        > > > few on and see
        > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
        > > > names a few
        > > > times before they settle on one.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
        > > > registering your name
        > > > really.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
        > > > them, get the lay
        > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
        > > > to know
        > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
        > > > they're cool now
        > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
        > > > find that you like
        > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
        > > > up. That's okay.
        > > >
        > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
        > > > SCA are viewed
        > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
        > > > them but it is a
        > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
        > > > years about it.
        > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
        > > > do and what the
        > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
        > > > Once you DO get
        > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
        > > > that light and
        > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
        > > > person well before
        > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
        > > > such thing.
        > > >
        > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
        > > > your hearts
        > > > content.
        > > >
        > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
        > > > registering your name or
        > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
        > > >
        > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
        > > > her name or a
        > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
        > > > and you should
        > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
        > > > certain before you
        > > > do.
        > > >
        > > > That's the Don't Speach.
        > > >
        > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
        > > >
        > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
        > > > plenty of stories
        > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
        > > > devices and wishing
        > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
        > > > stories of
        > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
        > > > had spent more
        > > > time getting to know people and things before they
        > > > had.
        > > >
        > > > Ian the Green
        > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
        > > > Region of the Midlands
        > > > Middle Kingdom
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > > > removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
        > yahoo.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Maria
        I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that. Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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          I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that.

          Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response this morning, but didn't want to give the wrong impression.

          Maria
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Iustinos Tekton called Justin
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


          On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
          > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
          > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
          > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
          > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
          > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
          > guild/household and be accepted officially.

          I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right
          now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
          nonsense! (I'm not angry at you, but whoever told you this. What a load
          of garbage.)

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sonja
          Good Day Lady Elizabeta, I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure Daly does as well. I have had similar experiences. I have often
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
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            Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
            I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
            Daly does as well.
            I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
            spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
            My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
            these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
            shy)
            And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
            look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
            welcome.
            No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
            they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
            me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
            to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
            know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
            drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
            of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
            like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

            Sonja of Malagentia

            -----Original Message-----
            From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Maria
            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

            Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
            reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
            to say anything bad about other groups.

            That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
            nice language.

            Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
            what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
            those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
            group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
            how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
            people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
            SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
            the Chatelaine).

            If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
            see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
            and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
            privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
            l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
            able to help you.

            Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
            area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
            of all newcomers.

            I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
            some people who will really help.

            In Service to the Dream,
            Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
            Maria Buchanan
            Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
            Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
            281-433-0347
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Daly
            To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

            --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
            >
            Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
            had to join in.
            I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
            in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
            you're on your own, newbie."
            I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
            has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
            I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
            meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
            the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
            includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
            the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
            that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
            Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
            You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
            your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
            to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
            efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
            apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
            guild/household and be accepted officially.
            Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
            to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
            me. And, I am way past those years.
            I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
            this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
            Thanks, Daly

            > Thanks for the boisterous response!
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of David Roland
            > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
            > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
            >
            > YAY! Welcome back!
            >
            > Ian the Green
            >
            > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
            > >
            > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
            > experience
            > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
            > try it
            > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
            and
            > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
            > will
            > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
            NOT
            > like.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com]
            > > On Behalf Of Janet
            > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
            > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
            > >
            > > I almost had this same problem...
            > > There was a household in my area that was causing
            > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
            > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
            > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
            > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
            > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
            > > many people in your local group (and also the
            > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
            > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
            > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
            > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
            > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
            > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
            > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
            > > new friends you can make).
            > >
            > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
            net>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
            > > > I first found the
            > > > SCA.
            > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
            > > > were willing to help
            > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
            > > > giving poor advice and
            > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
            > > > not the people I
            > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
            > > > the stigma that
            > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
            > > > them. Yup really wish I
            > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > yahoogroups.com
            > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > yahoogroups.com]
            > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
            > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
            > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
            > > > Newcomers
            > > >
            > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
            > > >
            > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
            > > > known as the Grey
            > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
            > > > that the older
            > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
            > > > often heard them
            > > > giving their own versions.
            > > >
            > > > And this is what I say:
            > > >
            > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
            > > > what you like and
            > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
            > > > never thought
            > > > you would. But a word of advice.
            > > >
            > > > In your first year DON'T.
            > > >
            > > > That's right DON'T.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T register a name.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T register a device.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
            > > > apprenticeship or squiring
            > > > or other such thing.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
            > > > it you are more
            > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
            > > > change it but
            > > > once people are used to calling you something
            > > > they're gonna keep on
            > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
            > > > or persona
            > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
            > > > few on and see
            > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
            > > > names a few
            > > > times before they settle on one.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
            > > > registering your name
            > > > really.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
            > > > them, get the lay
            > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
            > > > to know
            > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
            > > > they're cool now
            > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
            > > > find that you like
            > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
            > > > up. That's okay.
            > > >
            > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
            > > > SCA are viewed
            > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
            > > > them but it is a
            > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
            > > > years about it.
            > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
            > > > do and what the
            > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
            > > > Once you DO get
            > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
            > > > that light and
            > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
            > > > person well before
            > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
            > > > such thing.
            > > >
            > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
            > > > your hearts
            > > > content.
            > > >
            > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
            > > > registering your name or
            > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
            > > >
            > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
            > > > her name or a
            > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
            > > > and you should
            > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
            > > > certain before you
            > > > do.
            > > >
            > > > That's the Don't Speach.
            > > >
            > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
            > > >
            > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
            > > > plenty of stories
            > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
            > > > devices and wishing
            > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
            > > > stories of
            > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
            > > > had spent more
            > > > time getting to know people and things before they
            > > > had.
            > > >
            > > > Ian the Green
            > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
            > > > Region of the Midlands
            > > > Middle Kingdom
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > > > removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
            yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
            > yahoo.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Maria
            Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you. Maria ... From: Sonja To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you.

              Maria
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Sonja
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
              Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


              Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
              I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
              Daly does as well.
              I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
              spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
              My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
              these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
              shy)
              And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
              look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
              welcome.
              No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
              they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
              me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
              to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
              know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
              drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
              of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
              like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

              Sonja of Malagentia

              -----Original Message-----
              From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Maria
              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

              Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
              reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
              to say anything bad about other groups.

              That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
              nice language.

              Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
              what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
              those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
              group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
              how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
              people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
              SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
              the Chatelaine).

              If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
              see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
              and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
              privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
              l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
              able to help you.

              Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
              area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
              of all newcomers.

              I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
              some people who will really help.

              In Service to the Dream,
              Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
              Maria Buchanan
              Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
              Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
              281-433-0347
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Daly
              To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

              --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
              >
              Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
              had to join in.
              I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
              in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
              you're on your own, newbie."
              I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
              has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
              I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
              meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
              the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
              includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
              the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
              that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
              Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
              You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
              your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
              to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
              efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
              apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
              guild/household and be accepted officially.
              Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
              to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
              me. And, I am way past those years.
              I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
              this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
              Thanks, Daly

              > Thanks for the boisterous response!
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of David Roland
              > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
              > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
              >
              > YAY! Welcome back!
              >
              > Ian the Green
              >
              > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
              > >
              > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
              > experience
              > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
              > try it
              > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
              and
              > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
              > will
              > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
              NOT
              > like.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com]
              > > On Behalf Of Janet
              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
              > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
              > >
              > > I almost had this same problem...
              > > There was a household in my area that was causing
              > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
              > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
              > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
              > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
              > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
              > > many people in your local group (and also the
              > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
              > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
              > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
              > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
              > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
              > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
              > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
              > > new friends you can make).
              > >
              > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
              net>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
              > > > I first found the
              > > > SCA.
              > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
              > > > were willing to help
              > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
              > > > giving poor advice and
              > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
              > > > not the people I
              > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
              > > > the stigma that
              > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
              > > > them. Yup really wish I
              > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > yahoogroups.com
              > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > yahoogroups.com]
              > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
              > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
              > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
              > > > Newcomers
              > > >
              > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
              > > >
              > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
              > > > known as the Grey
              > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
              > > > that the older
              > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
              > > > often heard them
              > > > giving their own versions.
              > > >
              > > > And this is what I say:
              > > >
              > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
              > > > what you like and
              > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
              > > > never thought
              > > > you would. But a word of advice.
              > > >
              > > > In your first year DON'T.
              > > >
              > > > That's right DON'T.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T register a name.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T register a device.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
              > > > apprenticeship or squiring
              > > > or other such thing.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
              > > > it you are more
              > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
              > > > change it but
              > > > once people are used to calling you something
              > > > they're gonna keep on
              > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
              > > > or persona
              > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
              > > > few on and see
              > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
              > > > names a few
              > > > times before they settle on one.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
              > > > registering your name
              > > > really.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
              > > > them, get the lay
              > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
              > > > to know
              > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
              > > > they're cool now
              > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
              > > > find that you like
              > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
              > > > up. That's okay.
              > > >
              > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
              > > > SCA are viewed
              > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
              > > > them but it is a
              > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
              > > > years about it.
              > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
              > > > do and what the
              > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
              > > > Once you DO get
              > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
              > > > that light and
              > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
              > > > person well before
              > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
              > > > such thing.
              > > >
              > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
              > > > your hearts
              > > > content.
              > > >
              > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
              > > > registering your name or
              > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
              > > >
              > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
              > > > her name or a
              > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
              > > > and you should
              > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
              > > > certain before you
              > > > do.
              > > >
              > > > That's the Don't Speach.
              > > >
              > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
              > > >
              > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
              > > > plenty of stories
              > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
              > > > devices and wishing
              > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
              > > > stories of
              > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
              > > > had spent more
              > > > time getting to know people and things before they
              > > > had.
              > > >
              > > > Ian the Green
              > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
              > > > Region of the Midlands
              > > > Middle Kingdom
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > > > removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
              yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
              > yahoo.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • April
              Greetings Dear Friends I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Greetings Dear Friends

                I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my husband and I went to SCA events very scary and nerve wracking. Many people in my area were quick with a hello and smile but I just have a hard time talking to people I dont know. I quickly realized that one way to meet people overcoming my handicap ( I am in fact known to be so shy that in a college speach class I got up to speak and passed out!) was to go to people who were doing activities that intersted me. Every crafter I met be he or she spinner, stitcher, weaver, knitter or painter was only to happy to talk about their craft, its history, materials and their personal projects. Infact many of them were so happy to share I often left with a list of supplies or some supplies and instructions to start my own projects. (Which lead to a huge pile of projects of various types of crafts for me to decide which I like the best!). Also I often joined groups of people doing things I really wasnt so interested in. Heavy fighting I like to watch but really have no desire to be a fighter nor do I really concern myself with the various rules and regulations but I promise you there are very few fighters who will not share their love of fighting rules, skills, and regulations with you. I was often encouraged to try to hold weapons , take a swing , etc. While I really did not get a great perspective about fighting I was often introduced to other people in the fighter's group including consorts, friends , etc. In the matter of a few meetings I knew enough names to feel more comfortable around my group. While it is true that some people in the SCA can be a little snooty there are many of us who would be only too happy to get to know you and encourage you to get to know us. Being a part of this group is a great step. Getting to know other new people helped me feel less stupid about not knowing proper etiquette or court politics. If anyone is in the Terra Pomeria area and wants to meet up with me feel free to contact me. I will be at Acorn war this year, after having missed several events due to poor health.

                YIS

                April of Terra Pomeria

                current Bar Wench Smack Down Champ!

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Daly
                ... Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say hello to people or just make
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                  >Greetings All:
                  Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my
                  daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello" to
                  people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                  odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                  I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups. But,
                  I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                  understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                  together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                  term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                  I also believe there are a couple people in this particular group
                  who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                  is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it would
                  behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                  help.
                  I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as emotionally
                  and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                  what I can from this group and go on.
                  Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                  groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                  _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                  ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                  I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                  attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                  This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                  sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                  Thanks all
                  > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                  email as to you.
                  >
                  > Maria
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Sonja
                  > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
                  > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                  >
                  >
                  > Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                  > I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am
                  sure
                  > Daly does as well.
                  > I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events
                  where no one
                  > spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                  > My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and
                  approach all
                  > these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am
                  somewhat
                  > shy)
                  > And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has
                  that lost
                  > look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making
                  them feel
                  > welcome.
                  > No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or
                  that
                  > they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It
                  really upset
                  > me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let
                  it happen
                  > to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything
                  and don't
                  > know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and
                  offer a
                  > drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not
                  take much
                  > of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what
                  it was
                  > like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.
                  >
                  > Sonja of Malagentia
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On Behalf Of Maria
                  > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                  > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                  >
                  > Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I
                  wrote the
                  > reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I
                  don't want
                  > to say anything bad about other groups.
                  >
                  > That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly
                  more ...
                  > nice language.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together,
                  you get
                  > what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form.
                  One of
                  > those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get
                  any large
                  > group of people together you also get the people who don't
                  really know
                  > how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you
                  introduced to
                  > people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was
                  in the
                  > SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern
                  equivelant of
                  > the Chatelaine).
                  >
                  > If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are,
                  I can
                  > see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their
                  wing
                  > and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                  > privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%
                  40sbcglobal.net>
                  > l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who
                  will be
                  > able to help you.
                  >
                  > Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the
                  Houston
                  > area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the
                  disposal
                  > of all newcomers.
                  >
                  > I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing
                  you to
                  > some people who will really help.
                  >
                  > In Service to the Dream,
                  > Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                  > Maria Buchanan
                  > Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                  > Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                  > 281-433-0347
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Daly
                  > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                  >
                  > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts
                  and
                  > had to join in.
                  > I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                  > in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats,
                  but
                  > you're on your own, newbie."
                  > I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                  > has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never
                  know if
                  > I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                  > meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone
                  at
                  > the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                  > includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke
                  with
                  > the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                  > that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that
                  included
                  > Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                  > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                  > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own,
                  volunteer
                  > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                  > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you
                  an
                  > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                  > guild/household and be accepted officially.
                  > Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of
                  effort
                  > to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity
                  to
                  > me. And, I am way past those years.
                  > I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                  > this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                  > Thanks, Daly
                  >
                  > > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com]
                  > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                  > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                  > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                  > >
                  > > YAY! Welcome back!
                  > >
                  > > Ian the Green
                  > >
                  > > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                  > > experience
                  > > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the
                  decision to
                  > > try it
                  > > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new
                  people
                  > and
                  > > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that
                  people
                  > > will
                  > > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I
                  am
                  > NOT
                  > > like.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > yahoogroups.com]
                  > > > On Behalf Of Janet
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                  > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                  Newcomers
                  > > >
                  > > > I almost had this same problem...
                  > > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                  > > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                  > > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                  > > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                  > > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                  > > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                  > > > many people in your local group (and also the
                  > > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                  > > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                  > > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                  > > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                  > > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                  > > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                  > > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                  > > > new friends you can make).
                  > > >
                  > > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                  > net>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                  > > > > I first found the
                  > > > > SCA.
                  > > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                  > > > > were willing to help
                  > > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                  > > > > giving poor advice and
                  > > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                  > > > > not the people I
                  > > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                  > > > > the stigma that
                  > > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                  > > > > them. Yup really wish I
                  > > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%
                  40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > yahoogroups.com]
                  > > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                  > > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                  > > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                  > > > > Newcomers
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                  > > > > known as the Grey
                  > > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                  > > > > that the older
                  > > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                  > > > > often heard them
                  > > > > giving their own versions.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And this is what I say:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                  > > > > what you like and
                  > > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                  > > > > never thought
                  > > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In your first year DON'T.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > That's right DON'T.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T register a name.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T register a device.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                  > > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                  > > > > or other such thing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                  > > > > it you are more
                  > > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                  > > > > change it but
                  > > > > once people are used to calling you something
                  > > > > they're gonna keep on
                  > > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                  > > > > or persona
                  > > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                  > > > > few on and see
                  > > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                  > > > > names a few
                  > > > > times before they settle on one.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                  > > > > registering your name
                  > > > > really.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                  > > > > them, get the lay
                  > > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                  > > > > to know
                  > > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                  > > > > they're cool now
                  > > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                  > > > > find that you like
                  > > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                  > > > > up. That's okay.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                  > > > > SCA are viewed
                  > > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                  > > > > them but it is a
                  > > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                  > > > > years about it.
                  > > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                  > > > > do and what the
                  > > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                  > > > > Once you DO get
                  > > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                  > > > > that light and
                  > > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                  > > > > person well before
                  > > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                  > > > > such thing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                  > > > > your hearts
                  > > > > content.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                  > > > > registering your name or
                  > > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                  > > > > her name or a
                  > > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                  > > > > and you should
                  > > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                  > > > > certain before you
                  > > > > do.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                  > > > >
                  > > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                  > > > > plenty of stories
                  > > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                  > > > > devices and wishing
                  > > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                  > > > > stories of
                  > > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                  > > > > had spent more
                  > > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                  > > > > had.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Ian the Green
                  > > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                  > > > > Region of the Midlands
                  > > > > Middle Kingdom
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > > > > removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > __________________________________________________
                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                  around
                  > > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.
                  <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                  > yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                  > > yahoo.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • May
                  I m very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is another group close by that you might click a little better with? I just joined up in the past
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 7, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I'm very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is
                    another group close by that you might click a little better with? I
                    just joined up in the past couple of weeks. One thing that I found
                    to be very helpful is a multitude of research and striving to become
                    involved in as much as possible. As a child/teenager I was
                    interested in archery, so I attend every archery practice. I also
                    did a little research as to some period snacks and brought them
                    along to my first practice. This helped to show everyone that I
                    wanted to contribute to the group and to the period atmosphere. The
                    first weekend that I attended fight practice I spent reading an
                    article on 13th/14th century german embroidery which gave me a topic
                    to discuss with a woman there bearing a case of craft supplies who
                    offered to teach me fingerlooping. From that conversation she
                    invited me to go along with her to an event this weekend. Yay! My
                    first event! :) I'm also painfully shy, but I learned a few years
                    ago that you have two options (1) watch and wait and you will be
                    watching and waiting an hour from now, or (2) dive in and an hour
                    from now you will either be going places you never thought possible
                    or watching and waiting. With the first method you know you've lost
                    before you even started, with the second...who knows! :)

                    Good luck!
                    May :)


                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Daly" <dalyboyd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@> wrote:
                    > >Greetings All:
                    > Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event,
                    my
                    > daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello"
                    to
                    > people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                    > odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                    > I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups.
                    But,
                    > I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                    > understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                    > together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                    > term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                    > I also believe there are a couple people in this particular
                    group
                    > who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                    > is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it
                    would
                    > behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                    > help.
                    > I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as
                    emotionally
                    > and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                    > what I can from this group and go on.
                    > Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                    > groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                    > _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                    > ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                    > I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                    > attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                    > This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                    > sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                    > Thanks all
                    > > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                    > email as to you.
                    > >
                    > > Maria
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