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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household basics (was: The Don't Speech)

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  • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
    ... Part of the issue with regular households is that there are so many different kinds of regular . Some households are basically large pyramids (I call
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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      On Wednesday 30 August 2006 00:00, Maria wrote:
      > Regular households are a little confusing to newcomers.

      Part of the issue with "regular" households is that there are so many
      different kinds of "regular".

      Some households are basically large pyramids (I call them "peer-amids")
      founded by one Peer (a Knight, Laurel or Pelican). That person takes
      on students (squires, apprentices, or proteges, respectively) who become
      members of his/her "household" through that relationship. Eventually some
      of these students attain peerage, and they in turn take students. So there
      is a "greater household" containing smaller households, and this can repeat
      to several levels. Many of the big fighting households are of this model.

      Other households are formed of people with a common interest or historical
      period. For example, the Great Dark Horde is a household made of people who
      are interested in Mongolian culture and history. Another example would be
      some of the pirate households, Celtic clans, or performing arts households.

      Still others are simply groups of friends who form a household as a social
      group. The household serves as a way to co-register for camping events and
      is usually less formally organized and typically smaller than the others.
      My own household, Erevnite Asteron, is an example of this type. We have no
      officers and no formal leadership structure at all, because we are small
      enough not to need it.

      Fundamentally, a household is any two or more people who say they are a
      household. The SCA itself doesn't officially regulate households, so there
      are as many different kinds of household as there are people who want to
      form households.

      Some households are very loosely organized, with the line between "member"
      and "nonmember" being rather blurry. There may be people who regularly
      associate with the household and camp with them at events, but who aren't
      really part of the "core" of the household. People may drift in and out of
      the household from time to time, without much of a fuss being made.

      For other households, the process of becoming a member may be a very formal
      series of steps, beginning (typically) with being a guest and then being
      "watched" for a while while you and the household check one another out and
      see if it's a good fit. Membership may involve some sort of ceremonial
      welcoming by the household's members or leaders, and in some cases it may
      involve swearing an oath of allegiance. (Think of the oath one might take
      in order to become a squire, apprentice, or protege to a peer.)

      Some households actively and vigorously recruit new members (again, think of
      the fighting units that want and need more warriors). Others recruit very
      selectively or not at all. Still others may not actually recruit, but may
      be willing to consider you if you ask to join. Some are so informally
      organized that their own members have never even considered the question
      of whether and how they recruit at all. There are lots of households where
      the only "organizing" they have done is to pick a name so they have a way
      to register for events together.

      There are also complex interactions *between* households. For instance, in
      the "peer-amid" households I describe above, becoming a member of one of
      the lesser households may automatically bind you to the greater household,
      or it may not. Or it may automatically make you a welcome guest of the
      greater household but not a full member. Joining some households requires
      that you resign from any other households of which you are a member, while
      other households may say that multiple membership is no problem.

      And there are peerage relationships (again, the squire/apprentice/protege)
      that are just between the two individuals (peer and student) and have no
      household connotations at all. But if the peer or the student is a member of
      a household, the addition of this relationship may bear on the household
      relationships.

      None of this is unique to SCA households except for the terminology. Think
      of your modern-world social relationships. If you are a member of the local
      model airplane club, you may find that there is overlap between that and
      the local social group of amateur pilots of private aircraft, or overlap
      with the local ham radio community. Maybe your neighborhood association
      overlaps with a couple of local civic groups such as the Lions or the
      Rotary Club. Your modern-world political affiliations (MoveOn.org, or
      Right to Life, or the Sierra Club) may impact your choice of social group,
      or may interact with your relationship to a religious group.

      As with the modern-world counterparts, the important thing about SCA households
      is to take the time to understand the relationships involved before you enter
      into them. Any household that is really interested in *you*, and not just in
      adding another tally mark to their numbers, will be patient enough to wait for
      you to get to know them. Remember that household boundaries are not boundaries
      on friendship! You can be friends -- very close friends -- with someone and
      still not be a member of their household.

      I hope this proves informative. Households are a wonderful thing, but as
      others have said, this kind of relationship is something to be considered
      carefully and not rushed into. :-)

      Justin

      --
      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
      Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
      keys fesswise reversed sable.

      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
    • Ahavah Ehyeh
      Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn t exactly sure what a household was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found this very
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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        Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
        what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found
        this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
        group. Thanks again!
      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
        ... Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households: * Your modern-world family can also be a household in the SCA, if you want it to
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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          On Wednesday 30 August 2006 10:40, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
          > Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
          > what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found
          > this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
          > group. Thanks again!

          Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households:

          * Your modern-world family can also be a "household" in the SCA, if you want
          it to be. That's actually how ours (Erevnite Asteron) got started, since
          it was myself and my lady, Milica. We invited friends in and it grew over
          time.

          * Your *persona* can have an SCA family -- and thereby, if you wish, a
          household -- that has nothing to do with your modern family. For instance,
          an SCA friend whose persona is from the same time and place as yours may
          be your SCA brother, sister, father, etc., if the two of you agree that
          it is so.

          * In at least some kingdoms, the King and Queen, Prince and Princess, and
          their retainers become a sort of de-facto "royal household" during Their
          reign.

          In period, the household could mean anything from "all those who live in
          the same cottage or mansion" to "a large political organization centered around
          a powerful family" (such as the Medici family). And of course the notion of
          royal household is very period, though it may not have used that particular
          terminology.

          Sorry I left these out. See? There are so many kinds of household that even
          a 15+ year veteran of the SCA can't name them all off the top of his head. :-)

          Thanks for the kind words about my post, btw. :-)

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • Ahavah Ehyeh
          Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I suppose
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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            Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family
            could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I
            suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the same
            time. LOL Does that matter?


            Many Blessings,
            Amanda
            DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
            http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/





            >From: Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...>
            >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            >To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household basics (was: The Don't Speech)
            >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:48:06 -0400
            >
            >On Wednesday 30 August 2006 10:40, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
            > > Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
            > > what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I
            >found
            > > this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
            > > group. Thanks again!
            >
            >Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households:
            >
            >* Your modern-world family can also be a "household" in the SCA, if you
            >want
            > it to be. That's actually how ours (Erevnite Asteron) got started, since
            > it was myself and my lady, Milica. We invited friends in and it grew
            >over
            > time.
            >
            >* Your *persona* can have an SCA family -- and thereby, if you wish, a
            > household -- that has nothing to do with your modern family. For
            >instance,
            > an SCA friend whose persona is from the same time and place as yours may
            > be your SCA brother, sister, father, etc., if the two of you agree that
            > it is so.
            >
            >* In at least some kingdoms, the King and Queen, Prince and Princess, and
            > their retainers become a sort of de-facto "royal household" during Their
            > reign.
            >
            >In period, the household could mean anything from "all those who live in
            >the same cottage or mansion" to "a large political organization centered
            >around
            >a powerful family" (such as the Medici family). And of course the notion of
            >royal household is very period, though it may not have used that particular
            >terminology.
            >
            >Sorry I left these out. See? There are so many kinds of household that even
            >a 15+ year veteran of the SCA can't name them all off the top of his head.
            >:-)
            >
            >Thanks for the kind words about my post, btw. :-)
            >
            >Justin
            >
            >--
            >()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
            >Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
            >Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
            >keys fesswise reversed sable.
            >
            >Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            >justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
          • whiteorangeandgreen
            The only thing that matters as far as BEING a household is that those involved agree. As for REGISTERING a household NAME, it just has to pass the Rules for
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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              The only thing that matters as far as BEING a household is that those
              involved agree. As for REGISTERING a household NAME, it just has to
              pass the Rules for Submission
              (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html - shortened url:
              http://tinyurl.com/lvt5l). The household DOES NOT need a name
              registered for it; a registered name is only a convenience (it helps
              prevent multiple groups of the same name trying to register at an
              event and remain distinct).

              The SCA as an entity doesn't really care why a household forms. They
              also don't care who's in a household, let alone a particular
              household. The only time the causes become significant is when the
              MEMBERS of the HOUSEHOLD deem that they're important. IOW, if you
              make a household, it's a household; the reasons only matter to you.

              Ciaran O'Cainnech who sincerely hopes that makes sense outside his head.
              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Ahavah Ehyeh" <AhavahEhyeh@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little
              family
              > could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into
              one. I
              > suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from
              the same
              > time. LOL Does that matter?
            • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
              ... You are a household if you say that you are a household. The SCA has nothing to say about it one way or the other. Have fun! ... It only matters if *you*
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                On Wednesday 30 August 2006 14:13, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
                > Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family
                > could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I

                You are a household if you say that you are a household. The SCA has nothing
                to say about it one way or the other. Have fun!

                > suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the same
                > time. LOL Does that matter?

                It only matters if *you* think it matters. Again, the household is not an
                official SCA entity, so the rules are strictly up to you.

                Have fun!

                Justin

                --
                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
              • Ahavah Ehyeh
                Ok, great - thanks for clarifying! Many Blessings, Amanda DONA, Int l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                  Ok, great - thanks for clarifying!



                  Many Blessings,
                  Amanda
                  DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
                  http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/
                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, AhavahEhyeh@hotmail.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 31, 2006
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                    In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    AhavahEhyeh@... writes:

                    <<I suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the
                    same
                    time. LOL Does that matter?>>

                    Not necessarily. My own household is a service household; it's made up of
                    people who like running events, cooking feasts, being good officers, acting as
                    chirurgeons and heralds, etc. It's very loosely structured on a Scottish
                    clan since the person who started it has an early Scottish persona. But we
                    include every sort of persona from generic SCA to authenticist Elizabethan, 14th
                    century English, 13th century Scottish, including a Russian gypsy. We also
                    have members everywhere form Europe to Australia, although the main focus is
                    in Pennsylvania.
                    It all depends on what pulls the household together.


                    Brangwayna Morgan
                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                    Lancaster, PA


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ahavah Ehyeh
                    All right, thank you! That sounds like a wonderful group of people. I understand it a lot better now. I m eager to meet folks and get involved, but I will
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 31, 2006
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                      All right, thank you! That sounds like a wonderful group of people. I
                      understand it a lot better now. I'm eager to meet folks and get involved,
                      but I will remember the caution to take it slow and not just jump into
                      things. Thanks again!


                      Many Blessings,
                      Amanda
                      DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
                      http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/





                      >From: bronwynmgn@...
                      >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household basics
                      >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:51:39 EDT

                      >Not necessarily. My own household is a service household; it's made up of
                      >people who like running events, cooking feasts, being good officers,
                      >acting as
                      >chirurgeons and heralds, etc. It's very loosely structured on a Scottish
                      >clan since the person who started it has an early Scottish persona. But
                      >we
                      >include every sort of persona from generic SCA to authenticist
                      >Elizabethan, 14th
                      >century English, 13th century Scottish, including a Russian gypsy. We
                      >also
                      >have members everywhere form Europe to Australia, although the main focus
                      >is
                      >in Pennsylvania.
                      >It all depends on what pulls the household together.
                      >
                      >
                      >Brangwayna Morgan
                      >Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                      >Lancaster, PA
                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... had to join in. I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people in the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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                        In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        dalyboyd@... writes:
                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:

                        >>Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                        had to join in.
                        I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                        in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                        you're on your own, newbie."
                        I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                        has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                        I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                        meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                        the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                        includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                        the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                        that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                        Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                        You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                        your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                        to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                        efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                        apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                        guild/household and be accepted officially.
                        Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                        to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                        me. And, I am way past those years.
                        I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                        this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.>>

                        Good heavens! That is absolutely appalling. No, that is absolutely not a
                        typical attitude. We had a family of four newcomers, one of whose children is
                        handicapped, come to an event this weekend. The only person in the group
                        who had spoken to them prior to the event was the chatelaine, who also happened
                        to be the autocrat.
                        By all observation and speaking to them, they had a great time. By the end
                        of Saturday, they had been helping keep track of the younger children, had
                        been able to assist in lighting a stove which was being finicky, had watched
                        and talked with the fighters arming for a tournament, and had sat at dinner
                        with the chatelaine and her family. By Sunday evening, three of the 4 had
                        participated in a game of longball ( a period version of baseball) including the
                        handicapped boy, had chatted with just about everybody on site, and the
                        daughter had joined enthusiastically in the dancing. This morning they were
                        included in the group as if they had been with us for years. Mind you, they are
                        all outgoing folks; that certainly helps. Another newcomer also played in the
                        game and was talking and beginning to play with the musicians by the time he
                        left the event.

                        It is true that in the SCA you earn your honors and awards. However, honors
                        and awards are not the same as friendship or even simple courtesy. There is
                        NO excuse for being rude and exclusionary to newcomers. Nor are you
                        expected, much less required, to "find your speciality and develop it on your own in
                        hopes of being noticed and accepted". That is absolute rubbish. What
                        should be happening is that your chatelaine should be taking notes of your
                        interests and pointing you at the people who already do those things so they can
                        help you along and teach you, or at least be available to tell you who is
                        knowledgeable in that area when you come and ask.
                        Yes, people who help at events tend to be welcomed with more open arms then
                        those who sit back and expect to be catered to; that's to be expected in a
                        society that runs entirely on volunteer labor. But an apprenticeship or
                        membership in a guild or household are certainly not something that needs to happen
                        for you to be accepted; in fact I earned one of the society's highest
                        awards, one which traditionally involves an apprenticeship, never once having been
                        asked or considering asking for an apprenticeship.

                        If you would care to send me that chatelaine's name and group information, I
                        think a little chat with his/her superior is in order to set this person
                        straight. He/she is doing a grave disservice to the society if that is what
                        newcomers are getting from speaking to him/her. Having been a chatelaine myself
                        for many years, I am more than willing to take this up.

                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        bronwynmgn@...
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Maria
                        Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don t want to say
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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                          Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want to say anything bad about other groups.

                          That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ... nice language.

                          Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large group of people together you also get the people who don't really know how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of the Chatelaine).

                          If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me privately at scarlettmb@... and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be able to help you.

                          Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal of all newcomers.

                          I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to some people who will really help.

                          In Service to the Dream,
                          Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                          Maria Buchanan
                          Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                          Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                          281-433-0347
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Daly
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                          >
                          Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                          had to join in.
                          I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                          in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                          you're on your own, newbie."
                          I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                          has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                          I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                          meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                          the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                          includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                          the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                          that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                          Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                          You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                          your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                          to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                          efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                          apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                          guild/household and be accepted officially.
                          Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                          to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                          me. And, I am way past those years.
                          I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                          this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                          Thanks, Daly

                          > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                          > On Behalf Of David Roland
                          > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                          > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                          >
                          > YAY! Welcome back!
                          >
                          > Ian the Green
                          >
                          > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                          > experience
                          > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                          > try it
                          > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                          and
                          > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                          > will
                          > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                          NOT
                          > like.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com]
                          > > On Behalf Of Janet
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                          > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                          > >
                          > > I almost had this same problem...
                          > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                          > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                          > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                          > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                          > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                          > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                          > > many people in your local group (and also the
                          > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                          > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                          > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                          > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                          > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                          > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                          > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                          > > new friends you can make).
                          > >
                          > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                          net>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                          > > > I first found the
                          > > > SCA.
                          > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                          > > > were willing to help
                          > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                          > > > giving poor advice and
                          > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                          > > > not the people I
                          > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                          > > > the stigma that
                          > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                          > > > them. Yup really wish I
                          > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > yahoogroups.com
                          > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > yahoogroups.com]
                          > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                          > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                          > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                          > > > Newcomers
                          > > >
                          > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                          > > > known as the Grey
                          > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                          > > > that the older
                          > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                          > > > often heard them
                          > > > giving their own versions.
                          > > >
                          > > > And this is what I say:
                          > > >
                          > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                          > > > what you like and
                          > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                          > > > never thought
                          > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                          > > >
                          > > > In your first year DON'T.
                          > > >
                          > > > That's right DON'T.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T register a name.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T register a device.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                          > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                          > > > or other such thing.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                          > > > it you are more
                          > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                          > > > change it but
                          > > > once people are used to calling you something
                          > > > they're gonna keep on
                          > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                          > > > or persona
                          > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                          > > > few on and see
                          > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                          > > > names a few
                          > > > times before they settle on one.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                          > > > registering your name
                          > > > really.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                          > > > them, get the lay
                          > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                          > > > to know
                          > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                          > > > they're cool now
                          > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                          > > > find that you like
                          > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                          > > > up. That's okay.
                          > > >
                          > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                          > > > SCA are viewed
                          > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                          > > > them but it is a
                          > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                          > > > years about it.
                          > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                          > > > do and what the
                          > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                          > > > Once you DO get
                          > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                          > > > that light and
                          > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                          > > > person well before
                          > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                          > > > such thing.
                          > > >
                          > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                          > > > your hearts
                          > > > content.
                          > > >
                          > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                          > > > registering your name or
                          > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                          > > > her name or a
                          > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                          > > > and you should
                          > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                          > > > certain before you
                          > > > do.
                          > > >
                          > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                          > > >
                          > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                          > > >
                          > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                          > > > plenty of stories
                          > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                          > > > devices and wishing
                          > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                          > > > stories of
                          > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                          > > > had spent more
                          > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                          > > > had.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ian the Green
                          > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                          > > > Region of the Midlands
                          > > > Middle Kingdom
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > > > removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > __________________________________________________
                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                          > yahoo.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Maria
                          I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that. Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that.

                            Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response this morning, but didn't want to give the wrong impression.

                            Maria
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                            On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
                            > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                            > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                            > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                            > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                            > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                            > guild/household and be accepted officially.

                            I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right
                            now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
                            nonsense! (I'm not angry at you, but whoever told you this. What a load
                            of garbage.)

                            Justin

                            --
                            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                            Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                            keys fesswise reversed sable.

                            Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                            justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sonja
                            Good Day Lady Elizabeta, I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure Daly does as well. I have had similar experiences. I have often
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                              I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
                              Daly does as well.
                              I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
                              spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                              My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
                              these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
                              shy)
                              And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
                              look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
                              welcome.
                              No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
                              they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
                              me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
                              to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
                              know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
                              drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
                              of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
                              like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

                              Sonja of Malagentia

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Maria
                              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                              Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
                              reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
                              to say anything bad about other groups.

                              That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
                              nice language.

                              Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
                              what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
                              those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
                              group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
                              how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
                              people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
                              SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
                              the Chatelaine).

                              If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
                              see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
                              and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                              privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
                              l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
                              able to help you.

                              Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
                              area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
                              of all newcomers.

                              I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
                              some people who will really help.

                              In Service to the Dream,
                              Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                              Maria Buchanan
                              Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                              Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                              281-433-0347
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Daly
                              To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                              --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                              >
                              Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                              had to join in.
                              I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                              in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                              you're on your own, newbie."
                              I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                              has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                              I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                              meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                              the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                              includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                              the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                              that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                              Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                              You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                              your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                              to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                              efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                              apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                              guild/household and be accepted officially.
                              Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                              to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                              me. And, I am way past those years.
                              I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                              this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                              Thanks, Daly

                              > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com]
                              > On Behalf Of David Roland
                              > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                              > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                              >
                              > YAY! Welcome back!
                              >
                              > Ian the Green
                              >
                              > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                              > experience
                              > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                              > try it
                              > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                              and
                              > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                              > will
                              > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                              NOT
                              > like.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com]
                              > > On Behalf Of Janet
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                              > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                              > >
                              > > I almost had this same problem...
                              > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                              > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                              > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                              > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                              > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                              > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                              > > many people in your local group (and also the
                              > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                              > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                              > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                              > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                              > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                              > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                              > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                              > > new friends you can make).
                              > >
                              > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                              net>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                              > > > I first found the
                              > > > SCA.
                              > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                              > > > were willing to help
                              > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                              > > > giving poor advice and
                              > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                              > > > not the people I
                              > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                              > > > the stigma that
                              > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                              > > > them. Yup really wish I
                              > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com
                              > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com]
                              > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                              > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                              > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                              > > > Newcomers
                              > > >
                              > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                              > > > known as the Grey
                              > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                              > > > that the older
                              > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                              > > > often heard them
                              > > > giving their own versions.
                              > > >
                              > > > And this is what I say:
                              > > >
                              > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                              > > > what you like and
                              > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                              > > > never thought
                              > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                              > > >
                              > > > In your first year DON'T.
                              > > >
                              > > > That's right DON'T.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a name.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a device.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                              > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                              > > > or other such thing.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                              > > > it you are more
                              > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                              > > > change it but
                              > > > once people are used to calling you something
                              > > > they're gonna keep on
                              > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                              > > > or persona
                              > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                              > > > few on and see
                              > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                              > > > names a few
                              > > > times before they settle on one.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                              > > > registering your name
                              > > > really.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                              > > > them, get the lay
                              > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                              > > > to know
                              > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                              > > > they're cool now
                              > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                              > > > find that you like
                              > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                              > > > up. That's okay.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                              > > > SCA are viewed
                              > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                              > > > them but it is a
                              > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                              > > > years about it.
                              > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                              > > > do and what the
                              > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                              > > > Once you DO get
                              > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                              > > > that light and
                              > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                              > > > person well before
                              > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                              > > > such thing.
                              > > >
                              > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                              > > > your hearts
                              > > > content.
                              > > >
                              > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                              > > > registering your name or
                              > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                              > > > her name or a
                              > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                              > > > and you should
                              > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                              > > > certain before you
                              > > > do.
                              > > >
                              > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                              > > >
                              > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                              > > >
                              > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                              > > > plenty of stories
                              > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                              > > > devices and wishing
                              > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                              > > > stories of
                              > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                              > > > had spent more
                              > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                              > > > had.
                              > > >
                              > > > Ian the Green
                              > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                              > > > Region of the Midlands
                              > > > Middle Kingdom
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > > removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                              yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                              > yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Maria
                              Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you. Maria ... From: Sonja To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you.

                                Maria
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Sonja
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
                                Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                                Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                                I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
                                Daly does as well.
                                I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
                                spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                                My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
                                these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
                                shy)
                                And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
                                look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
                                welcome.
                                No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
                                they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
                                me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
                                to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
                                know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
                                drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
                                of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
                                like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

                                Sonja of Malagentia

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Maria
                                Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
                                reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
                                to say anything bad about other groups.

                                That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
                                nice language.

                                Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
                                what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
                                those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
                                group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
                                how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
                                people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
                                SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
                                the Chatelaine).

                                If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
                                see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
                                and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                                privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
                                l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
                                able to help you.

                                Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
                                area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
                                of all newcomers.

                                I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
                                some people who will really help.

                                In Service to the Dream,
                                Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                                Maria Buchanan
                                Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                                Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                                281-433-0347
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Daly
                                To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                >
                                Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                                had to join in.
                                I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                                you're on your own, newbie."
                                I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                                I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                                the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                                the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                                Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                                to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                                me. And, I am way past those years.
                                I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                Thanks, Daly

                                > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com]
                                > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                >
                                > YAY! Welcome back!
                                >
                                > Ian the Green
                                >
                                > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                > experience
                                > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                > try it
                                > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                                and
                                > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                > will
                                > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                                NOT
                                > like.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > yahoogroups.com
                                > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > yahoogroups.com]
                                > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                > >
                                > > I almost had this same problem...
                                > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                > > new friends you can make).
                                > >
                                > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                net>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                > > > I first found the
                                > > > SCA.
                                > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                > > > were willing to help
                                > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                > > > giving poor advice and
                                > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                > > > not the people I
                                > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                > > > the stigma that
                                > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > yahoogroups.com
                                > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > yahoogroups.com]
                                > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                > > > Newcomers
                                > > >
                                > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                > > > known as the Grey
                                > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                > > > that the older
                                > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                > > > often heard them
                                > > > giving their own versions.
                                > > >
                                > > > And this is what I say:
                                > > >
                                > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                > > > what you like and
                                > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                > > > never thought
                                > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                > > >
                                > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                > > >
                                > > > That's right DON'T.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T register a name.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T register a device.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                > > > or other such thing.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                > > > it you are more
                                > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                > > > change it but
                                > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                > > > they're gonna keep on
                                > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                > > > or persona
                                > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                > > > few on and see
                                > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                > > > names a few
                                > > > times before they settle on one.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                > > > registering your name
                                > > > really.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                > > > them, get the lay
                                > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                > > > to know
                                > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                > > > they're cool now
                                > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                > > > find that you like
                                > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                > > > up. That's okay.
                                > > >
                                > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                > > > SCA are viewed
                                > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                > > > them but it is a
                                > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                > > > years about it.
                                > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                > > > do and what the
                                > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                > > > Once you DO get
                                > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                > > > that light and
                                > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                > > > person well before
                                > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                > > > such thing.
                                > > >
                                > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                > > > your hearts
                                > > > content.
                                > > >
                                > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                > > > registering your name or
                                > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                > > > her name or a
                                > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                > > > and you should
                                > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                > > > certain before you
                                > > > do.
                                > > >
                                > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                > > >
                                > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                > > >
                                > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                > > > plenty of stories
                                > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                > > > devices and wishing
                                > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                > > > stories of
                                > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                > > > had spent more
                                > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                > > > had.
                                > > >
                                > > > Ian the Green
                                > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                > > > Region of the Midlands
                                > > > Middle Kingdom
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > > > removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                                yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                > yahoo.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • April
                                Greetings Dear Friends I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 5, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Greetings Dear Friends

                                  I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my husband and I went to SCA events very scary and nerve wracking. Many people in my area were quick with a hello and smile but I just have a hard time talking to people I dont know. I quickly realized that one way to meet people overcoming my handicap ( I am in fact known to be so shy that in a college speach class I got up to speak and passed out!) was to go to people who were doing activities that intersted me. Every crafter I met be he or she spinner, stitcher, weaver, knitter or painter was only to happy to talk about their craft, its history, materials and their personal projects. Infact many of them were so happy to share I often left with a list of supplies or some supplies and instructions to start my own projects. (Which lead to a huge pile of projects of various types of crafts for me to decide which I like the best!). Also I often joined groups of people doing things I really wasnt so interested in. Heavy fighting I like to watch but really have no desire to be a fighter nor do I really concern myself with the various rules and regulations but I promise you there are very few fighters who will not share their love of fighting rules, skills, and regulations with you. I was often encouraged to try to hold weapons , take a swing , etc. While I really did not get a great perspective about fighting I was often introduced to other people in the fighter's group including consorts, friends , etc. In the matter of a few meetings I knew enough names to feel more comfortable around my group. While it is true that some people in the SCA can be a little snooty there are many of us who would be only too happy to get to know you and encourage you to get to know us. Being a part of this group is a great step. Getting to know other new people helped me feel less stupid about not knowing proper etiquette or court politics. If anyone is in the Terra Pomeria area and wants to meet up with me feel free to contact me. I will be at Acorn war this year, after having missed several events due to poor health.

                                  YIS

                                  April of Terra Pomeria

                                  current Bar Wench Smack Down Champ!

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Daly
                                  ... Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say hello to people or just make
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 6, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                                    >Greetings All:
                                    Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my
                                    daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello" to
                                    people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                                    odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                                    I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups. But,
                                    I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                                    understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                                    together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                                    term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                                    I also believe there are a couple people in this particular group
                                    who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                                    is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it would
                                    behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                                    help.
                                    I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as emotionally
                                    and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                                    what I can from this group and go on.
                                    Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                                    groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                                    _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                                    ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                                    I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                                    attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                                    This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                                    sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                                    Thanks all
                                    > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                                    email as to you.
                                    >
                                    > Maria
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Sonja
                                    > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
                                    > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                                    > I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am
                                    sure
                                    > Daly does as well.
                                    > I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events
                                    where no one
                                    > spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                                    > My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and
                                    approach all
                                    > these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am
                                    somewhat
                                    > shy)
                                    > And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has
                                    that lost
                                    > look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making
                                    them feel
                                    > welcome.
                                    > No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or
                                    that
                                    > they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It
                                    really upset
                                    > me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let
                                    it happen
                                    > to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything
                                    and don't
                                    > know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and
                                    offer a
                                    > drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not
                                    take much
                                    > of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what
                                    it was
                                    > like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.
                                    >
                                    > Sonja of Malagentia
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On Behalf Of Maria
                                    > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                                    > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    >
                                    > Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I
                                    wrote the
                                    > reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I
                                    don't want
                                    > to say anything bad about other groups.
                                    >
                                    > That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly
                                    more ...
                                    > nice language.
                                    >
                                    > Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together,
                                    you get
                                    > what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form.
                                    One of
                                    > those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get
                                    any large
                                    > group of people together you also get the people who don't
                                    really know
                                    > how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you
                                    introduced to
                                    > people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was
                                    in the
                                    > SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern
                                    equivelant of
                                    > the Chatelaine).
                                    >
                                    > If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are,
                                    I can
                                    > see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their
                                    wing
                                    > and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                                    > privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%
                                    40sbcglobal.net>
                                    > l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who
                                    will be
                                    > able to help you.
                                    >
                                    > Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the
                                    Houston
                                    > area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the
                                    disposal
                                    > of all newcomers.
                                    >
                                    > I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing
                                    you to
                                    > some people who will really help.
                                    >
                                    > In Service to the Dream,
                                    > Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                                    > Maria Buchanan
                                    > Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                                    > Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                                    > 281-433-0347
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Daly
                                    > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    >
                                    > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts
                                    and
                                    > had to join in.
                                    > I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                    > in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats,
                                    but
                                    > you're on your own, newbie."
                                    > I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                    > has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never
                                    know if
                                    > I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                    > meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone
                                    at
                                    > the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                    > includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke
                                    with
                                    > the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                    > that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that
                                    included
                                    > Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                    > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                    > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own,
                                    volunteer
                                    > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                    > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you
                                    an
                                    > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                    > guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                    > Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of
                                    effort
                                    > to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity
                                    to
                                    > me. And, I am way past those years.
                                    > I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                    > this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                    > Thanks, Daly
                                    >
                                    > > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                    > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    > >
                                    > > YAY! Welcome back!
                                    > >
                                    > > Ian the Green
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                    > > experience
                                    > > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the
                                    decision to
                                    > > try it
                                    > > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new
                                    people
                                    > and
                                    > > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that
                                    people
                                    > > will
                                    > > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I
                                    am
                                    > NOT
                                    > > like.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                    > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                    Newcomers
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I almost had this same problem...
                                    > > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                    > > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                    > > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                    > > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                    > > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                    > > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                    > > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                    > > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                    > > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                    > > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                    > > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                    > > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                    > > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                    > > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                    > > > new friends you can make).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                    > net>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                    > > > > I first found the
                                    > > > > SCA.
                                    > > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                    > > > > were willing to help
                                    > > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                    > > > > giving poor advice and
                                    > > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                    > > > > not the people I
                                    > > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                    > > > > the stigma that
                                    > > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                    > > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                    > > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%
                                    40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                    > > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                    > > > > Newcomers
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                    > > > > known as the Grey
                                    > > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                    > > > > that the older
                                    > > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                    > > > > often heard them
                                    > > > > giving their own versions.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > And this is what I say:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                    > > > > what you like and
                                    > > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                    > > > > never thought
                                    > > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > That's right DON'T.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T register a name.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T register a device.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                    > > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                    > > > > or other such thing.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                    > > > > it you are more
                                    > > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                    > > > > change it but
                                    > > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                    > > > > they're gonna keep on
                                    > > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                    > > > > or persona
                                    > > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                    > > > > few on and see
                                    > > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                    > > > > names a few
                                    > > > > times before they settle on one.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                    > > > > registering your name
                                    > > > > really.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                    > > > > them, get the lay
                                    > > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                    > > > > to know
                                    > > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                    > > > > they're cool now
                                    > > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                    > > > > find that you like
                                    > > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                    > > > > up. That's okay.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                    > > > > SCA are viewed
                                    > > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                    > > > > them but it is a
                                    > > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                    > > > > years about it.
                                    > > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                    > > > > do and what the
                                    > > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                    > > > > Once you DO get
                                    > > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                    > > > > that light and
                                    > > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                    > > > > person well before
                                    > > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                    > > > > such thing.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                    > > > > your hearts
                                    > > > > content.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                    > > > > registering your name or
                                    > > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                    > > > > her name or a
                                    > > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                    > > > > and you should
                                    > > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                    > > > > certain before you
                                    > > > > do.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                    > > > > plenty of stories
                                    > > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                    > > > > devices and wishing
                                    > > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                    > > > > stories of
                                    > > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                    > > > > had spent more
                                    > > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                    > > > > had.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Ian the Green
                                    > > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                    > > > > Region of the Midlands
                                    > > > > Middle Kingdom
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > > > removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                    around
                                    > > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.
                                    <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                                    > yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                    > > yahoo.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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                                    >
                                  • May
                                    I m very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is another group close by that you might click a little better with? I just joined up in the past
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 7, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I'm very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is
                                      another group close by that you might click a little better with? I
                                      just joined up in the past couple of weeks. One thing that I found
                                      to be very helpful is a multitude of research and striving to become
                                      involved in as much as possible. As a child/teenager I was
                                      interested in archery, so I attend every archery practice. I also
                                      did a little research as to some period snacks and brought them
                                      along to my first practice. This helped to show everyone that I
                                      wanted to contribute to the group and to the period atmosphere. The
                                      first weekend that I attended fight practice I spent reading an
                                      article on 13th/14th century german embroidery which gave me a topic
                                      to discuss with a woman there bearing a case of craft supplies who
                                      offered to teach me fingerlooping. From that conversation she
                                      invited me to go along with her to an event this weekend. Yay! My
                                      first event! :) I'm also painfully shy, but I learned a few years
                                      ago that you have two options (1) watch and wait and you will be
                                      watching and waiting an hour from now, or (2) dive in and an hour
                                      from now you will either be going places you never thought possible
                                      or watching and waiting. With the first method you know you've lost
                                      before you even started, with the second...who knows! :)

                                      Good luck!
                                      May :)


                                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Daly" <dalyboyd@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@> wrote:
                                      > >Greetings All:
                                      > Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event,
                                      my
                                      > daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello"
                                      to
                                      > people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                                      > odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                                      > I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups.
                                      But,
                                      > I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                                      > understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                                      > together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                                      > term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                                      > I also believe there are a couple people in this particular
                                      group
                                      > who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                                      > is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it
                                      would
                                      > behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                                      > help.
                                      > I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as
                                      emotionally
                                      > and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                                      > what I can from this group and go on.
                                      > Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                                      > groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                                      > _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                                      > ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                                      > I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                                      > attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                                      > This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                                      > sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                                      > Thanks all
                                      > > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                                      > email as to you.
                                      > >
                                      > > Maria
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