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Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

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  • Maria
    Ian, That s exactly what I tell my newcomers. I ve been in the SCA for 8 years now and have JUST gotten around to register my name and device. I ve been a
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 29, 2006
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      Ian,

      That's exactly what I tell my newcomers.

      I've been in the SCA for 8 years now and have JUST gotten around to register my name and device. I've been a member of a household for about 2 years now. These are people that I have known for 8 years and I finally got around to asking to join the household.

      To all the Newcomers out there ... Get to know the SCA before you decide on ANYTHING. I really mean that. Don't try to pick a persona right away. You'll be stuck with it and to be quite honest you may not like it later. I've actually known people who picked a persona by the clothing they could make. I'm not kidding ... I did it myself. My original desire was Italian Rennaissance ... But I couldn't make the clothing myself and I didn't really know anyone who would do it for me and couldn't afford to pay anyone to make the stuff. So I went to a 14th century Italian, which is still very early Italian Rennaissance but the clothing is much easier to make.

      So as Ian said so wonderfully ... DON'T.

      In Service to the Dream,
      Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici, SSG
      Maria Buchanan
      Official Worrier of House Starfire
      Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
      Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
      In the Stellar Kingdom of Ansteorra
      281-433-0347
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David Roland
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:20 PM
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


      I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.

      I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area known as the Grey
      Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough that the older
      newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have often heard them
      giving their own versions.

      And this is what I say:

      You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out what you like and
      explore. You might find something you like that you never thought
      you would. But a word of advice.

      In your first year DON'T.

      That's right DON'T.

      DON'T register a name.

      DON'T register a device.

      DON'T join a household, guild etc.

      DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an apprenticeship or squiring
      or other such thing.

      DON'T register your name. Once you have registered it you are more
      or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or change it but
      once people are used to calling you something they're gonna keep on
      calling you that name. Besides you might find a name or persona
      that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a few on and see
      what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change names a few
      times before they settle on one.

      DON'T register a device. Same reason as not registering your name
      really.

      DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with them, get the lay
      of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get to know
      people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if they're cool now
      they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may find that you like
      hanging out with them but don't really wanna join up. That's okay.

      DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the SCA are viewed
      as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of them but it is a
      BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for years about it.
      Take your time get to know what you really want to do and what the
      person is really like and what their reputation is. Once you DO get
      attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in that light and
      will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the person well before
      you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other such thing.

      Take your time, explore things and research them to your hearts
      content.

      And if anyone gives you any guff over not registering your name or
      device, politely tell them to lay off.

      I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered her name or a
      device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it and you should
      wait around to see what you want to register for certain before you
      do.

      That's the Don't Speach.

      Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)

      If you like it though, spread the word. There are plenty of stories
      in the SCA of people having registered names or devices and wishing
      they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more stories of
      having joined a household or guild and wishing they had spent more
      time getting to know people and things before they had.

      Ian the Green
      Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
      Region of the Midlands
      Middle Kingdom






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Maria
      I think Newcomer s Households are a different animal. I don t suggest that Newcomers join a household but if there s a newcomers household in the area I m all
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 29, 2006
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        I think Newcomer's Households are a different animal. I don't suggest that Newcomers join a household but if there's a newcomers household in the area I'm all for it. It helps out the Hospitaler/Chatelaine in the area because they have a newcomer's meeting there with the household. The houeshold will also have a few established members in it so there is usually someone who can point the newcomers in the right direction for the questions the can't answer (I'm talking about specifics here not the question "who do I talk to about (insert activity here)")

        Regular households are a little confusing to newcomers. The newcomers households are quite different from regualer households.

        Maria
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:54 AM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


        One of the things listed as a DON'T on this list is something I've
        personally been working on changing.

        I'm currently developing a personal Household for the purpose of being
        a resource for Newcomers. The concept is that one day, with enough
        time and energy invested by the old-timers in the Household, we would
        be able to offer our services as a Page School (of sorts) for adult
        newcomers to the Society.

        I guess the ultimate thing for Newcomers to think on is:

        ASK lots of questions and THINK about the answers _before_ you commit
        to something. The more questions you ask, the more answers you'll
        get...which gives you more information to arm yourself with when
        making decisions.

        In essence, make sure you know what the committment is all about, what
        it entails, what the expectations are, and what the "get out" clause
        is.

        Giudo di Niccolo





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
        ... Part of the issue with regular households is that there are so many different kinds of regular . Some households are basically large pyramids (I call
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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          On Wednesday 30 August 2006 00:00, Maria wrote:
          > Regular households are a little confusing to newcomers.

          Part of the issue with "regular" households is that there are so many
          different kinds of "regular".

          Some households are basically large pyramids (I call them "peer-amids")
          founded by one Peer (a Knight, Laurel or Pelican). That person takes
          on students (squires, apprentices, or proteges, respectively) who become
          members of his/her "household" through that relationship. Eventually some
          of these students attain peerage, and they in turn take students. So there
          is a "greater household" containing smaller households, and this can repeat
          to several levels. Many of the big fighting households are of this model.

          Other households are formed of people with a common interest or historical
          period. For example, the Great Dark Horde is a household made of people who
          are interested in Mongolian culture and history. Another example would be
          some of the pirate households, Celtic clans, or performing arts households.

          Still others are simply groups of friends who form a household as a social
          group. The household serves as a way to co-register for camping events and
          is usually less formally organized and typically smaller than the others.
          My own household, Erevnite Asteron, is an example of this type. We have no
          officers and no formal leadership structure at all, because we are small
          enough not to need it.

          Fundamentally, a household is any two or more people who say they are a
          household. The SCA itself doesn't officially regulate households, so there
          are as many different kinds of household as there are people who want to
          form households.

          Some households are very loosely organized, with the line between "member"
          and "nonmember" being rather blurry. There may be people who regularly
          associate with the household and camp with them at events, but who aren't
          really part of the "core" of the household. People may drift in and out of
          the household from time to time, without much of a fuss being made.

          For other households, the process of becoming a member may be a very formal
          series of steps, beginning (typically) with being a guest and then being
          "watched" for a while while you and the household check one another out and
          see if it's a good fit. Membership may involve some sort of ceremonial
          welcoming by the household's members or leaders, and in some cases it may
          involve swearing an oath of allegiance. (Think of the oath one might take
          in order to become a squire, apprentice, or protege to a peer.)

          Some households actively and vigorously recruit new members (again, think of
          the fighting units that want and need more warriors). Others recruit very
          selectively or not at all. Still others may not actually recruit, but may
          be willing to consider you if you ask to join. Some are so informally
          organized that their own members have never even considered the question
          of whether and how they recruit at all. There are lots of households where
          the only "organizing" they have done is to pick a name so they have a way
          to register for events together.

          There are also complex interactions *between* households. For instance, in
          the "peer-amid" households I describe above, becoming a member of one of
          the lesser households may automatically bind you to the greater household,
          or it may not. Or it may automatically make you a welcome guest of the
          greater household but not a full member. Joining some households requires
          that you resign from any other households of which you are a member, while
          other households may say that multiple membership is no problem.

          And there are peerage relationships (again, the squire/apprentice/protege)
          that are just between the two individuals (peer and student) and have no
          household connotations at all. But if the peer or the student is a member of
          a household, the addition of this relationship may bear on the household
          relationships.

          None of this is unique to SCA households except for the terminology. Think
          of your modern-world social relationships. If you are a member of the local
          model airplane club, you may find that there is overlap between that and
          the local social group of amateur pilots of private aircraft, or overlap
          with the local ham radio community. Maybe your neighborhood association
          overlaps with a couple of local civic groups such as the Lions or the
          Rotary Club. Your modern-world political affiliations (MoveOn.org, or
          Right to Life, or the Sierra Club) may impact your choice of social group,
          or may interact with your relationship to a religious group.

          As with the modern-world counterparts, the important thing about SCA households
          is to take the time to understand the relationships involved before you enter
          into them. Any household that is really interested in *you*, and not just in
          adding another tally mark to their numbers, will be patient enough to wait for
          you to get to know them. Remember that household boundaries are not boundaries
          on friendship! You can be friends -- very close friends -- with someone and
          still not be a member of their household.

          I hope this proves informative. Households are a wonderful thing, but as
          others have said, this kind of relationship is something to be considered
          carefully and not rushed into. :-)

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • Ahavah Ehyeh
          Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn t exactly sure what a household was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found this very
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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            Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
            what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found
            this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
            group. Thanks again!
          • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
            ... Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households: * Your modern-world family can also be a household in the SCA, if you want it to
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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              On Wednesday 30 August 2006 10:40, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
              > Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
              > what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I found
              > this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
              > group. Thanks again!

              Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households:

              * Your modern-world family can also be a "household" in the SCA, if you want
              it to be. That's actually how ours (Erevnite Asteron) got started, since
              it was myself and my lady, Milica. We invited friends in and it grew over
              time.

              * Your *persona* can have an SCA family -- and thereby, if you wish, a
              household -- that has nothing to do with your modern family. For instance,
              an SCA friend whose persona is from the same time and place as yours may
              be your SCA brother, sister, father, etc., if the two of you agree that
              it is so.

              * In at least some kingdoms, the King and Queen, Prince and Princess, and
              their retainers become a sort of de-facto "royal household" during Their
              reign.

              In period, the household could mean anything from "all those who live in
              the same cottage or mansion" to "a large political organization centered around
              a powerful family" (such as the Medici family). And of course the notion of
              royal household is very period, though it may not have used that particular
              terminology.

              Sorry I left these out. See? There are so many kinds of household that even
              a 15+ year veteran of the SCA can't name them all off the top of his head. :-)

              Thanks for the kind words about my post, btw. :-)

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
              keys fesswise reversed sable.

              Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
              justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
            • Ahavah Ehyeh
              Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I suppose
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family
                could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I
                suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the same
                time. LOL Does that matter?


                Many Blessings,
                Amanda
                DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
                http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/





                >From: Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...>
                >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                >To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household basics (was: The Don't Speech)
                >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:48:06 -0400
                >
                >On Wednesday 30 August 2006 10:40, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
                > > Thank you so much for sharing this! As a newcomer, I wasn't exactly sure
                > > what a 'household' was - would it be my family? My local group? etc. I
                >found
                > > this very helpful, and I hope you'll put it in the Files section of the
                > > group. Thanks again!
                >
                >Doh!!!! I should have mentioned the *other* three kinds of households:
                >
                >* Your modern-world family can also be a "household" in the SCA, if you
                >want
                > it to be. That's actually how ours (Erevnite Asteron) got started, since
                > it was myself and my lady, Milica. We invited friends in and it grew
                >over
                > time.
                >
                >* Your *persona* can have an SCA family -- and thereby, if you wish, a
                > household -- that has nothing to do with your modern family. For
                >instance,
                > an SCA friend whose persona is from the same time and place as yours may
                > be your SCA brother, sister, father, etc., if the two of you agree that
                > it is so.
                >
                >* In at least some kingdoms, the King and Queen, Prince and Princess, and
                > their retainers become a sort of de-facto "royal household" during Their
                > reign.
                >
                >In period, the household could mean anything from "all those who live in
                >the same cottage or mansion" to "a large political organization centered
                >around
                >a powerful family" (such as the Medici family). And of course the notion of
                >royal household is very period, though it may not have used that particular
                >terminology.
                >
                >Sorry I left these out. See? There are so many kinds of household that even
                >a 15+ year veteran of the SCA can't name them all off the top of his head.
                >:-)
                >
                >Thanks for the kind words about my post, btw. :-)
                >
                >Justin
                >
                >--
                >()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                >Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                >Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                >keys fesswise reversed sable.
                >
                >Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                >justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
              • whiteorangeandgreen
                The only thing that matters as far as BEING a household is that those involved agree. As for REGISTERING a household NAME, it just has to pass the Rules for
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                  The only thing that matters as far as BEING a household is that those
                  involved agree. As for REGISTERING a household NAME, it just has to
                  pass the Rules for Submission
                  (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html - shortened url:
                  http://tinyurl.com/lvt5l). The household DOES NOT need a name
                  registered for it; a registered name is only a convenience (it helps
                  prevent multiple groups of the same name trying to register at an
                  event and remain distinct).

                  The SCA as an entity doesn't really care why a household forms. They
                  also don't care who's in a household, let alone a particular
                  household. The only time the causes become significant is when the
                  MEMBERS of the HOUSEHOLD deem that they're important. IOW, if you
                  make a household, it's a household; the reasons only matter to you.

                  Ciaran O'Cainnech who sincerely hopes that makes sense outside his head.
                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Ahavah Ehyeh" <AhavahEhyeh@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little
                  family
                  > could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into
                  one. I
                  > suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from
                  the same
                  > time. LOL Does that matter?
                • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... You are a household if you say that you are a household. The SCA has nothing to say about it one way or the other. Have fun! ... It only matters if *you*
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                    On Wednesday 30 August 2006 14:13, Ahavah Ehyeh wrote:
                    > Justin, thank you for clarifying! I was wondering whether my little family
                    > could be a household, or if we would have to wait to be invited into one. I

                    You are a household if you say that you are a household. The SCA has nothing
                    to say about it one way or the other. Have fun!

                    > suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the same
                    > time. LOL Does that matter?

                    It only matters if *you* think it matters. Again, the household is not an
                    official SCA entity, so the rules are strictly up to you.

                    Have fun!

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                    keys fesswise reversed sable.

                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                  • Ahavah Ehyeh
                    Ok, great - thanks for clarifying! Many Blessings, Amanda DONA, Int l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 30, 2006
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                      Ok, great - thanks for clarifying!



                      Many Blessings,
                      Amanda
                      DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
                      http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/
                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, AhavahEhyeh@hotmail.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 31, 2006
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                        In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        AhavahEhyeh@... writes:

                        <<I suppose we'll wait anyway, and see if we'll even have personas from the
                        same
                        time. LOL Does that matter?>>

                        Not necessarily. My own household is a service household; it's made up of
                        people who like running events, cooking feasts, being good officers, acting as
                        chirurgeons and heralds, etc. It's very loosely structured on a Scottish
                        clan since the person who started it has an early Scottish persona. But we
                        include every sort of persona from generic SCA to authenticist Elizabethan, 14th
                        century English, 13th century Scottish, including a Russian gypsy. We also
                        have members everywhere form Europe to Australia, although the main focus is
                        in Pennsylvania.
                        It all depends on what pulls the household together.


                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ahavah Ehyeh
                        All right, thank you! That sounds like a wonderful group of people. I understand it a lot better now. I m eager to meet folks and get involved, but I will
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 31, 2006
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                          All right, thank you! That sounds like a wonderful group of people. I
                          understand it a lot better now. I'm eager to meet folks and get involved,
                          but I will remember the caution to take it slow and not just jump into
                          things. Thanks again!


                          Many Blessings,
                          Amanda
                          DONA, Int'l-trained birth doula, Medicine Reiki Master
                          http://ahavah-ehyeh.livejournal.com/





                          >From: bronwynmgn@...
                          >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household basics
                          >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:51:39 EDT

                          >Not necessarily. My own household is a service household; it's made up of
                          >people who like running events, cooking feasts, being good officers,
                          >acting as
                          >chirurgeons and heralds, etc. It's very loosely structured on a Scottish
                          >clan since the person who started it has an early Scottish persona. But
                          >we
                          >include every sort of persona from generic SCA to authenticist
                          >Elizabethan, 14th
                          >century English, 13th century Scottish, including a Russian gypsy. We
                          >also
                          >have members everywhere form Europe to Australia, although the main focus
                          >is
                          >in Pennsylvania.
                          >It all depends on what pulls the household together.
                          >
                          >
                          >Brangwayna Morgan
                          >Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          >Lancaster, PA
                        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                          In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... had to join in. I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people in the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 4 2:35 PM
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                            In a message dated 9/4/2006 4:15:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                            dalyboyd@... writes:
                            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:

                            >>Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                            had to join in.
                            I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                            in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                            you're on your own, newbie."
                            I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                            has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                            I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                            meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                            the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                            includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                            the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                            that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                            Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                            You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                            your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                            to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                            efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                            apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                            guild/household and be accepted officially.
                            Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                            to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                            me. And, I am way past those years.
                            I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                            this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.>>

                            Good heavens! That is absolutely appalling. No, that is absolutely not a
                            typical attitude. We had a family of four newcomers, one of whose children is
                            handicapped, come to an event this weekend. The only person in the group
                            who had spoken to them prior to the event was the chatelaine, who also happened
                            to be the autocrat.
                            By all observation and speaking to them, they had a great time. By the end
                            of Saturday, they had been helping keep track of the younger children, had
                            been able to assist in lighting a stove which was being finicky, had watched
                            and talked with the fighters arming for a tournament, and had sat at dinner
                            with the chatelaine and her family. By Sunday evening, three of the 4 had
                            participated in a game of longball ( a period version of baseball) including the
                            handicapped boy, had chatted with just about everybody on site, and the
                            daughter had joined enthusiastically in the dancing. This morning they were
                            included in the group as if they had been with us for years. Mind you, they are
                            all outgoing folks; that certainly helps. Another newcomer also played in the
                            game and was talking and beginning to play with the musicians by the time he
                            left the event.

                            It is true that in the SCA you earn your honors and awards. However, honors
                            and awards are not the same as friendship or even simple courtesy. There is
                            NO excuse for being rude and exclusionary to newcomers. Nor are you
                            expected, much less required, to "find your speciality and develop it on your own in
                            hopes of being noticed and accepted". That is absolute rubbish. What
                            should be happening is that your chatelaine should be taking notes of your
                            interests and pointing you at the people who already do those things so they can
                            help you along and teach you, or at least be available to tell you who is
                            knowledgeable in that area when you come and ask.
                            Yes, people who help at events tend to be welcomed with more open arms then
                            those who sit back and expect to be catered to; that's to be expected in a
                            society that runs entirely on volunteer labor. But an apprenticeship or
                            membership in a guild or household are certainly not something that needs to happen
                            for you to be accepted; in fact I earned one of the society's highest
                            awards, one which traditionally involves an apprenticeship, never once having been
                            asked or considering asking for an apprenticeship.

                            If you would care to send me that chatelaine's name and group information, I
                            think a little chat with his/her superior is in order to set this person
                            straight. He/she is doing a grave disservice to the society if that is what
                            newcomers are getting from speaking to him/her. Having been a chatelaine myself
                            for many years, I am more than willing to take this up.

                            Brangwayna Morgan
                            bronwynmgn@...
                            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                            Lancaster, PA



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Maria
                            Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don t want to say
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 4 7:04 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want to say anything bad about other groups.

                              That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ... nice language.

                              Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large group of people together you also get the people who don't really know how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of the Chatelaine).

                              If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me privately at scarlettmb@... and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be able to help you.

                              Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal of all newcomers.

                              I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to some people who will really help.

                              In Service to the Dream,
                              Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                              Maria Buchanan
                              Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                              Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                              281-433-0347
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Daly
                              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                              >
                              Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                              had to join in.
                              I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                              in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                              you're on your own, newbie."
                              I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                              has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                              I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                              meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                              the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                              includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                              the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                              that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                              Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                              You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                              your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                              to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                              efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                              apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                              guild/household and be accepted officially.
                              Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                              to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                              me. And, I am way past those years.
                              I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                              this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                              Thanks, Daly

                              > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                              > On Behalf Of David Roland
                              > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                              >
                              > YAY! Welcome back!
                              >
                              > Ian the Green
                              >
                              > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                              > experience
                              > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                              > try it
                              > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                              and
                              > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                              > will
                              > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                              NOT
                              > like.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com]
                              > > On Behalf Of Janet
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                              > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                              > >
                              > > I almost had this same problem...
                              > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                              > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                              > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                              > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                              > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                              > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                              > > many people in your local group (and also the
                              > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                              > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                              > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                              > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                              > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                              > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                              > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                              > > new friends you can make).
                              > >
                              > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                              net>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                              > > > I first found the
                              > > > SCA.
                              > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                              > > > were willing to help
                              > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                              > > > giving poor advice and
                              > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                              > > > not the people I
                              > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                              > > > the stigma that
                              > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                              > > > them. Yup really wish I
                              > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com
                              > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com]
                              > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                              > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                              > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                              > > > Newcomers
                              > > >
                              > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                              > > > known as the Grey
                              > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                              > > > that the older
                              > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                              > > > often heard them
                              > > > giving their own versions.
                              > > >
                              > > > And this is what I say:
                              > > >
                              > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                              > > > what you like and
                              > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                              > > > never thought
                              > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                              > > >
                              > > > In your first year DON'T.
                              > > >
                              > > > That's right DON'T.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a name.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a device.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                              > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                              > > > or other such thing.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                              > > > it you are more
                              > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                              > > > change it but
                              > > > once people are used to calling you something
                              > > > they're gonna keep on
                              > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                              > > > or persona
                              > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                              > > > few on and see
                              > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                              > > > names a few
                              > > > times before they settle on one.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                              > > > registering your name
                              > > > really.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                              > > > them, get the lay
                              > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                              > > > to know
                              > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                              > > > they're cool now
                              > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                              > > > find that you like
                              > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                              > > > up. That's okay.
                              > > >
                              > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                              > > > SCA are viewed
                              > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                              > > > them but it is a
                              > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                              > > > years about it.
                              > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                              > > > do and what the
                              > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                              > > > Once you DO get
                              > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                              > > > that light and
                              > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                              > > > person well before
                              > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                              > > > such thing.
                              > > >
                              > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                              > > > your hearts
                              > > > content.
                              > > >
                              > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                              > > > registering your name or
                              > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                              > > > her name or a
                              > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                              > > > and you should
                              > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                              > > > certain before you
                              > > > do.
                              > > >
                              > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                              > > >
                              > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                              > > >
                              > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                              > > > plenty of stories
                              > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                              > > > devices and wishing
                              > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                              > > > stories of
                              > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                              > > > had spent more
                              > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                              > > > had.
                              > > >
                              > > > Ian the Green
                              > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                              > > > Region of the Midlands
                              > > > Middle Kingdom
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > > removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                              > yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Maria
                              I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that. Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 4 7:51 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I know how you feel Justin. I was like ready to chew iron and spit nails this morning when I read that.

                                Like I said, I had a much more nastily worded response this morning, but didn't want to give the wrong impression.

                                Maria
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                                On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
                                > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                > guild/household and be accepted officially.

                                I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right
                                now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
                                nonsense! (I'm not angry at you, but whoever told you this. What a load
                                of garbage.)

                                Justin

                                --
                                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sonja
                                Good Day Lady Elizabeta, I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure Daly does as well. I have had similar experiences. I have often
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 5 2:37 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                                  I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
                                  Daly does as well.
                                  I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
                                  spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                                  My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
                                  these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
                                  shy)
                                  And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
                                  look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
                                  welcome.
                                  No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
                                  they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
                                  me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
                                  to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
                                  know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
                                  drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
                                  of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
                                  like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

                                  Sonja of Malagentia

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of Maria
                                  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                  Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
                                  reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
                                  to say anything bad about other groups.

                                  That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
                                  nice language.

                                  Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
                                  what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
                                  those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
                                  group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
                                  how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
                                  people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
                                  SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
                                  the Chatelaine).

                                  If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
                                  see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
                                  and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                                  privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
                                  l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
                                  able to help you.

                                  Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
                                  area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
                                  of all newcomers.

                                  I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
                                  some people who will really help.

                                  In Service to the Dream,
                                  Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                                  Maria Buchanan
                                  Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                                  Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                                  281-433-0347
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Daly
                                  To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                  --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                                  had to join in.
                                  I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                  in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                                  you're on your own, newbie."
                                  I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                  has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                                  I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                  meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                                  the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                  includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                                  the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                  that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                                  Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                  You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                  your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                  to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                  efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                  apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                  guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                  Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                                  to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                                  me. And, I am way past those years.
                                  I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                  this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                  Thanks, Daly

                                  > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com]
                                  > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                  > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                  > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                  >
                                  > YAY! Welcome back!
                                  >
                                  > Ian the Green
                                  >
                                  > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                  > experience
                                  > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                  > try it
                                  > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                                  and
                                  > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                  > will
                                  > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                                  NOT
                                  > like.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com
                                  > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com]
                                  > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                  > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                  > >
                                  > > I almost had this same problem...
                                  > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                  > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                  > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                  > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                  > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                  > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                  > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                  > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                  > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                  > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                  > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                  > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                  > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                  > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                  > > new friends you can make).
                                  > >
                                  > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                  net>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                  > > > I first found the
                                  > > > SCA.
                                  > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                  > > > were willing to help
                                  > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                  > > > giving poor advice and
                                  > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                  > > > not the people I
                                  > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                  > > > the stigma that
                                  > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                  > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                  > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > yahoogroups.com]
                                  > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                  > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                  > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                  > > > Newcomers
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                  > > > known as the Grey
                                  > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                  > > > that the older
                                  > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                  > > > often heard them
                                  > > > giving their own versions.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > And this is what I say:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                  > > > what you like and
                                  > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                  > > > never thought
                                  > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > That's right DON'T.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T register a name.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T register a device.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                  > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                  > > > or other such thing.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                  > > > it you are more
                                  > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                  > > > change it but
                                  > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                  > > > they're gonna keep on
                                  > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                  > > > or persona
                                  > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                  > > > few on and see
                                  > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                  > > > names a few
                                  > > > times before they settle on one.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                  > > > registering your name
                                  > > > really.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                  > > > them, get the lay
                                  > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                  > > > to know
                                  > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                  > > > they're cool now
                                  > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                  > > > find that you like
                                  > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                  > > > up. That's okay.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                  > > > SCA are viewed
                                  > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                  > > > them but it is a
                                  > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                  > > > years about it.
                                  > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                  > > > do and what the
                                  > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                  > > > Once you DO get
                                  > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                  > > > that light and
                                  > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                  > > > person well before
                                  > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                  > > > such thing.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                  > > > your hearts
                                  > > > content.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                  > > > registering your name or
                                  > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                  > > > her name or a
                                  > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                  > > > and you should
                                  > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                  > > > certain before you
                                  > > > do.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                  > > > plenty of stories
                                  > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                  > > > devices and wishing
                                  > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                  > > > stories of
                                  > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                  > > > had spent more
                                  > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                  > > > had.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Ian the Green
                                  > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                  > > > Region of the Midlands
                                  > > > Middle Kingdom
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > > > removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________________________
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                                  yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                  > yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Maria
                                  Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you. Maria ... From: Sonja To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 5 10:08 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that email as to you.

                                    Maria
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Sonja
                                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers


                                    Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                                    I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am sure
                                    Daly does as well.
                                    I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events where no one
                                    spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                                    My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and approach all
                                    these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am somewhat
                                    shy)
                                    And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has that lost
                                    look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making them feel
                                    welcome.
                                    No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or that
                                    they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It really upset
                                    me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let it happen
                                    to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything and don't
                                    know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and offer a
                                    drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not take much
                                    of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what it was
                                    like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.

                                    Sonja of Malagentia

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Maria
                                    Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                    Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I wrote the
                                    reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I don't want
                                    to say anything bad about other groups.

                                    That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly more ...
                                    nice language.

                                    Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together, you get
                                    what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form. One of
                                    those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get any large
                                    group of people together you also get the people who don't really know
                                    how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you introduced to
                                    people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was in the
                                    SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern equivelant of
                                    the Chatelaine).

                                    If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are, I can
                                    see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their wing
                                    and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                                    privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%40sbcglobal.net>
                                    l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who will be
                                    able to help you.

                                    Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the Houston
                                    area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the disposal
                                    of all newcomers.

                                    I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing you to
                                    some people who will really help.

                                    In Service to the Dream,
                                    Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                                    Maria Buchanan
                                    Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                                    Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                                    281-433-0347
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Daly
                                    To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                    --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                                    had to join in.
                                    I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                    in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                                    you're on your own, newbie."
                                    I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                    has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                                    I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                    meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                                    the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                    includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                                    the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                    that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                                    Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                    You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                    your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                    to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                    efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                    apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                    guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                    Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                                    to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                                    me. And, I am way past those years.
                                    I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                    this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                    Thanks, Daly

                                    > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                    > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    >
                                    > YAY! Welcome back!
                                    >
                                    > Ian the Green
                                    >
                                    > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                    > experience
                                    > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                    > try it
                                    > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                                    and
                                    > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                    > will
                                    > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                                    NOT
                                    > like.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                    > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    > >
                                    > > I almost had this same problem...
                                    > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                    > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                    > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                    > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                    > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                    > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                    > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                    > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                    > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                    > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                    > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                    > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                    > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                    > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                    > > new friends you can make).
                                    > >
                                    > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                    net>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                    > > > I first found the
                                    > > > SCA.
                                    > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                    > > > were willing to help
                                    > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                    > > > giving poor advice and
                                    > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                    > > > not the people I
                                    > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                    > > > the stigma that
                                    > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                    > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                    > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                    > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                    > > > Newcomers
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                    > > > known as the Grey
                                    > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                    > > > that the older
                                    > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                    > > > often heard them
                                    > > > giving their own versions.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And this is what I say:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                    > > > what you like and
                                    > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                    > > > never thought
                                    > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That's right DON'T.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a name.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a device.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                    > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                    > > > or other such thing.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                    > > > it you are more
                                    > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                    > > > change it but
                                    > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                    > > > they're gonna keep on
                                    > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                    > > > or persona
                                    > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                    > > > few on and see
                                    > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                    > > > names a few
                                    > > > times before they settle on one.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                    > > > registering your name
                                    > > > really.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                    > > > them, get the lay
                                    > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                    > > > to know
                                    > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                    > > > they're cool now
                                    > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                    > > > find that you like
                                    > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                    > > > up. That's okay.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                    > > > SCA are viewed
                                    > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                    > > > them but it is a
                                    > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                    > > > years about it.
                                    > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                    > > > do and what the
                                    > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                    > > > Once you DO get
                                    > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                    > > > that light and
                                    > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                    > > > person well before
                                    > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                    > > > such thing.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                    > > > your hearts
                                    > > > content.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                    > > > registering your name or
                                    > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                    > > > her name or a
                                    > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                    > > > and you should
                                    > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                    > > > certain before you
                                    > > > do.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                    > > > plenty of stories
                                    > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                    > > > devices and wishing
                                    > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                    > > > stories of
                                    > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                    > > > had spent more
                                    > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                    > > > had.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ian the Green
                                    > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                    > > > Region of the Midlands
                                    > > > Middle Kingdom
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > > removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                                    yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                    > yahoo.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • April
                                    Greetings Dear Friends I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 5 10:55 AM
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                                      Greetings Dear Friends

                                      I live in the wonderful Kingdom of AnTir in the Barony of Terra Pomeria. I am by nature extremely shy and found the first few times my husband and I went to SCA events very scary and nerve wracking. Many people in my area were quick with a hello and smile but I just have a hard time talking to people I dont know. I quickly realized that one way to meet people overcoming my handicap ( I am in fact known to be so shy that in a college speach class I got up to speak and passed out!) was to go to people who were doing activities that intersted me. Every crafter I met be he or she spinner, stitcher, weaver, knitter or painter was only to happy to talk about their craft, its history, materials and their personal projects. Infact many of them were so happy to share I often left with a list of supplies or some supplies and instructions to start my own projects. (Which lead to a huge pile of projects of various types of crafts for me to decide which I like the best!). Also I often joined groups of people doing things I really wasnt so interested in. Heavy fighting I like to watch but really have no desire to be a fighter nor do I really concern myself with the various rules and regulations but I promise you there are very few fighters who will not share their love of fighting rules, skills, and regulations with you. I was often encouraged to try to hold weapons , take a swing , etc. While I really did not get a great perspective about fighting I was often introduced to other people in the fighter's group including consorts, friends , etc. In the matter of a few meetings I knew enough names to feel more comfortable around my group. While it is true that some people in the SCA can be a little snooty there are many of us who would be only too happy to get to know you and encourage you to get to know us. Being a part of this group is a great step. Getting to know other new people helped me feel less stupid about not knowing proper etiquette or court politics. If anyone is in the Terra Pomeria area and wants to meet up with me feel free to contact me. I will be at Acorn war this year, after having missed several events due to poor health.

                                      YIS

                                      April of Terra Pomeria

                                      current Bar Wench Smack Down Champ!

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Daly
                                      ... Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say hello to people or just make
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 6 10:08 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                                        >Greetings All:
                                        Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event, my
                                        daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello" to
                                        people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                                        odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                                        I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups. But,
                                        I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                                        understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                                        together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                                        term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                                        I also believe there are a couple people in this particular group
                                        who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                                        is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it would
                                        behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                                        help.
                                        I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as emotionally
                                        and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                                        what I can from this group and go on.
                                        Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                                        groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                                        _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                                        ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                                        I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                                        attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                                        This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                                        sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                                        Thanks all
                                        > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                                        email as to you.
                                        >
                                        > Maria
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Sonja
                                        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:37 AM
                                        > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Good Day Lady Elizabeta,
                                        > I did not post this, however I appreciate you response and I am
                                        sure
                                        > Daly does as well.
                                        > I have had similar experiences. I have often gone to events
                                        where no one
                                        > spoke to me. Not so much as a "hello".
                                        > My new tactic to deal with this is to hold my head high and
                                        approach all
                                        > these people and introduce myself. (which is not easy as I am
                                        somewhat
                                        > shy)
                                        > And when I see someone who is new (newer than I anyway) or has
                                        that lost
                                        > look about them, I make a point of speaking to them and making
                                        them feel
                                        > welcome.
                                        > No one should ever be made to feel that they are not welcomed or
                                        that
                                        > they are in some way inferior to the rest of the folks. It
                                        really upset
                                        > me when it happened to me and I have vowed that I will not let
                                        it happen
                                        > to others. I am new and don't know a darn thing about anything
                                        and don't
                                        > know many people, but I know how to smile and say hello and
                                        offer a
                                        > drink or a place to rest tired feet or whatever. It does not
                                        take much
                                        > of an effort at all. Obviously some of these people forgot what
                                        it was
                                        > like to be new and should be ashamed of themselves.
                                        >
                                        > Sonja of Malagentia
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                        > On Behalf Of Maria
                                        > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:04 PM
                                        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                        >
                                        > Ok. Well I was going to reply to this this morning, but when I
                                        wrote the
                                        > reply I re-read it and it sounded ... well frankly nasty. I
                                        don't want
                                        > to say anything bad about other groups.
                                        >
                                        > That said ... here's what I would have writtten in a slightly
                                        more ...
                                        > nice language.
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately when you get any large group of people together,
                                        you get
                                        > what I like to call "politics". "Politics" can take any form.
                                        One of
                                        > those is the attitude that you've described. Also when you get
                                        any large
                                        > group of people together you also get the people who don't
                                        really know
                                        > how to help. Your Chatelaine should be the one to get you
                                        introduced to
                                        > people, but he/she may not know the people they need to. I was
                                        in the
                                        > SCA for 6 years before I became a Hospitaler (the southern
                                        equivelant of
                                        > the Chatelaine).
                                        >
                                        > If you can tell me where you're at and what your interests are,
                                        I can
                                        > see if I can find someone who is willing to take you under their
                                        wing
                                        > and help you out - introduce you around to people, etc. Email me
                                        > privately at scarlettmb@sbcgloba <mailto:scarlettmb%
                                        40sbcglobal.net>
                                        > l.net and I'll be happy to get you in touch with the people who
                                        will be
                                        > able to help you.
                                        >
                                        > Now that I've said all of that, if you ever find yourself in the
                                        Houston
                                        > area please feel free to call me or email me. I'm always at the
                                        disposal
                                        > of all newcomers.
                                        >
                                        > I hope to hear from you, Sonja, and look forward to introducing
                                        you to
                                        > some people who will really help.
                                        >
                                        > In Service to the Dream,
                                        > Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
                                        > Maria Buchanan
                                        > Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                                        > Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                                        > 281-433-0347
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Daly
                                        > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:09 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                        >
                                        > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts
                                        and
                                        > had to join in.
                                        > I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                        > in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats,
                                        but
                                        > you're on your own, newbie."
                                        > I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                        > has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never
                                        know if
                                        > I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                        > meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone
                                        at
                                        > the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                        > includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke
                                        with
                                        > the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                        > that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that
                                        included
                                        > Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                        > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                        > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own,
                                        volunteer
                                        > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                        > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you
                                        an
                                        > apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                        > guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                        > Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of
                                        effort
                                        > to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity
                                        to
                                        > me. And, I am way past those years.
                                        > I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                        > this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                        > Thanks, Daly
                                        >
                                        > > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                        > >
                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > yahoogroups.com]
                                        > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                        > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                        > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                        > >
                                        > > YAY! Welcome back!
                                        > >
                                        > > Ian the Green
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                        > > experience
                                        > > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the
                                        decision to
                                        > > try it
                                        > > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new
                                        people
                                        > and
                                        > > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that
                                        people
                                        > > will
                                        > > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I
                                        am
                                        > NOT
                                        > > like.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > yahoogroups.com
                                        > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > yahoogroups.com]
                                        > > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                        > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                        > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                        Newcomers
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I almost had this same problem...
                                        > > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                        > > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                        > > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                        > > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                        > > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                        > > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                        > > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                        > > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                        > > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                        > > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                        > > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                        > > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                        > > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                        > > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                        > > > new friends you can make).
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                        > net>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                        > > > > I first found the
                                        > > > > SCA.
                                        > > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                        > > > > were willing to help
                                        > > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                        > > > > giving poor advice and
                                        > > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                        > > > > not the people I
                                        > > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                        > > > > the stigma that
                                        > > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                        > > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                        > > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%
                                        40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > yahoogroups.com]
                                        > > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                        > > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                        > > > > Newcomers
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                        > > > > known as the Grey
                                        > > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                        > > > > that the older
                                        > > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                        > > > > often heard them
                                        > > > > giving their own versions.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > And this is what I say:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                        > > > > what you like and
                                        > > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                        > > > > never thought
                                        > > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > That's right DON'T.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T register a name.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T register a device.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                        > > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                        > > > > or other such thing.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                        > > > > it you are more
                                        > > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                        > > > > change it but
                                        > > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                        > > > > they're gonna keep on
                                        > > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                        > > > > or persona
                                        > > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                        > > > > few on and see
                                        > > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                        > > > > names a few
                                        > > > > times before they settle on one.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                        > > > > registering your name
                                        > > > > really.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                        > > > > them, get the lay
                                        > > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                        > > > > to know
                                        > > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                        > > > > they're cool now
                                        > > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                        > > > > find that you like
                                        > > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                        > > > > up. That's okay.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                        > > > > SCA are viewed
                                        > > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                        > > > > them but it is a
                                        > > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                        > > > > years about it.
                                        > > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                        > > > > do and what the
                                        > > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                        > > > > Once you DO get
                                        > > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                        > > > > that light and
                                        > > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                        > > > > person well before
                                        > > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                        > > > > such thing.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                        > > > > your hearts
                                        > > > > content.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                        > > > > registering your name or
                                        > > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                        > > > > her name or a
                                        > > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                        > > > > and you should
                                        > > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                        > > > > certain before you
                                        > > > > do.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                        > > > > plenty of stories
                                        > > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                        > > > > devices and wishing
                                        > > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                        > > > > stories of
                                        > > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                        > > > > had spent more
                                        > > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                        > > > > had.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Ian the Green
                                        > > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                        > > > > Region of the Midlands
                                        > > > > Middle Kingdom
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                        > > > > removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > __________________________________________________
                                        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                        around
                                        > > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.
                                        <http://mail.yahoo.com>
                                        > yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                        > > yahoo.com
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
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                                        >
                                      • May
                                        I m very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is another group close by that you might click a little better with? I just joined up in the past
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Sep 7 11:42 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'm very sorry that you had such an experience. Perhaps there is
                                          another group close by that you might click a little better with? I
                                          just joined up in the past couple of weeks. One thing that I found
                                          to be very helpful is a multitude of research and striving to become
                                          involved in as much as possible. As a child/teenager I was
                                          interested in archery, so I attend every archery practice. I also
                                          did a little research as to some period snacks and brought them
                                          along to my first practice. This helped to show everyone that I
                                          wanted to contribute to the group and to the period atmosphere. The
                                          first weekend that I attended fight practice I spent reading an
                                          article on 13th/14th century german embroidery which gave me a topic
                                          to discuss with a woman there bearing a case of craft supplies who
                                          offered to teach me fingerlooping. From that conversation she
                                          invited me to go along with her to an event this weekend. Yay! My
                                          first event! :) I'm also painfully shy, but I learned a few years
                                          ago that you have two options (1) watch and wait and you will be
                                          watching and waiting an hour from now, or (2) dive in and an hour
                                          from now you will either be going places you never thought possible
                                          or watching and waiting. With the first method you know you've lost
                                          before you even started, with the second...who knows! :)

                                          Good luck!
                                          May :)


                                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Daly" <dalyboyd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <scarlettmb@> wrote:
                                          > >Greetings All:
                                          > Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement. At the event,
                                          my
                                          > daughters and I decided we would just walk around and say "hello"
                                          to
                                          > people or just make eye contact and smile. I have never seen such
                                          > odd responses. Most people just walked on by. So, we did try.
                                          > I do tend to be a bit insecure with people;esp. in groups.
                                          But,
                                          > I feel I have put my best foot forward with these people. I do
                                          > understand that it takes time to get to know people who have been
                                          > together for many years and feel they are a "family". That is the
                                          > term one member said in front of me to another member of the group.
                                          > I also believe there are a couple people in this particular
                                          group
                                          > who are of the frame of mind that they are above newbies and there
                                          > is a hierarchy in the SCA of which they are a part. I guess it
                                          would
                                          > behoove me to steer clear of those types as they can offer me no
                                          > help.
                                          > I am trying to take the attitude that I will remain as
                                          emotionally
                                          > and intellectually open as I can so that I will be able to learn
                                          > what I can from this group and go on.
                                          > Would it be appropriate to post something on the Kingdom Yahoo
                                          > groups boards stating that I am new and am interested in
                                          > _____whatever and ask if there are other new people or experienced
                                          > ones that would be interested in chatting online or meeting?
                                          > I am not sure at this point what else to do except continue to
                                          > attend meetings and A&S workshops and learn.
                                          > This group is small and the event was small. There was noone
                                          > sitting and doing crafts other than sewing.
                                          > Thanks all
                                          > > Sorry I must have misread the forwards. Daly, please take that
                                          > email as to you.
                                          > >
                                          > > Maria
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