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The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

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  • David Roland
    I feel the urge to give the Don t Speach again. I m the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area known as the Grey Gargoyles. And I give the Don t Speach
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 28, 2006
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      I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.

      I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area known as the Grey
      Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough that the older
      newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have often heard them
      giving their own versions.

      And this is what I say:

      You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out what you like and
      explore. You might find something you like that you never thought
      you would. But a word of advice.

      In your first year DON'T.

      That's right DON'T.

      DON'T register a name.

      DON'T register a device.

      DON'T join a household, guild etc.

      DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an apprenticeship or squiring
      or other such thing.

      DON'T register your name. Once you have registered it you are more
      or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or change it but
      once people are used to calling you something they're gonna keep on
      calling you that name. Besides you might find a name or persona
      that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a few on and see
      what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change names a few
      times before they settle on one.

      DON'T register a device. Same reason as not registering your name
      really.

      DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with them, get the lay
      of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get to know
      people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if they're cool now
      they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may find that you like
      hanging out with them but don't really wanna join up. That's okay.

      DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the SCA are viewed
      as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of them but it is a
      BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for years about it.
      Take your time get to know what you really want to do and what the
      person is really like and what their reputation is. Once you DO get
      attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in that light and
      will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the person well before
      you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other such thing.

      Take your time, explore things and research them to your hearts
      content.

      And if anyone gives you any guff over not registering your name or
      device, politely tell them to lay off.

      I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered her name or a
      device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it and you should
      wait around to see what you want to register for certain before you
      do.

      That's the Don't Speach.

      Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)

      If you like it though, spread the word. There are plenty of stories
      in the SCA of people having registered names or devices and wishing
      they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more stories of
      having joined a household or guild and wishing they had spent more
      time getting to know people and things before they had.

      Ian the Green
      Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
      Region of the Midlands
      Middle Kingdom
    • Jeff Suzuki
      My main comment is that as a teacher, I do my best to avoid negative phrasing ( do not ), for purely psychological reasons: 1) There are people who take
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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        My main comment is that as a teacher, I do my best to
        avoid negative phrasing ("do not"), for purely
        psychological reasons:

        1) There are people who take "don't" as a challenge,
        2) There are people who miss the "n't" (possibly a
        subset/overlap of #1)

        Perhaps there's a "Do" list. My thoughts on what it
        would include:

        1) DO try everything, or at least a lot of things;
        you might surprise yourself!

        2) DO go to guild meetings, workshops. They're good
        ways of meeting people.

        Etc.

        Jeffs/etc.

        --- David Roland <mystborne@...> wrote:

        > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
        >
        > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
        > known as the Grey
        > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
        > that the older
        > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
        > often heard them
        > giving their own versions.
        >
        > And this is what I say:
        >
        > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
        > what you like and
        > explore. You might find something you like that you
        > never thought
        > you would. But a word of advice.
        >
        > In your first year DON'T.
        >
        > That's right DON'T.
        >
        > DON'T register a name.
        >
        > DON'T register a device.
        >
        > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
        >
        > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
        > apprenticeship or squiring
        > or other such thing.
        >
        > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
        > it you are more
        > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it
        > or change it but
        > once people are used to calling you something
        > they're gonna keep on
        > calling you that name. Besides you might find a
        > name or persona
        > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
        > few on and see
        > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
        > names a few
        > times before they settle on one.
        >
        > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
        > registering your name
        > really.
        >
        > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
        > them, get the lay
        > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
        > to know
        > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
        > they're cool now
        > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
        > find that you like
        > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
        > up. That's okay.
        >
        > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
        > SCA are viewed
        > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
        > them but it is a
        > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
        > years about it.
        > Take your time get to know what you really want to
        > do and what the
        > person is really like and what their reputation is.
        > Once you DO get
        > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
        > that light and
        > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
        > person well before
        > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
        > such thing.
        >
        > Take your time, explore things and research them to
        > your hearts
        > content.
        >
        > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
        > registering your name or
        > device, politely tell them to lay off.
        >
        > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
        > her name or a
        > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do
        > it and you should
        > wait around to see what you want to register for
        > certain before you
        > do.
        >
        > That's the Don't Speach.
        >
        > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
        >
        > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
        > plenty of stories
        > in the SCA of people having registered names or
        > devices and wishing
        > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even
        > more stories of
        > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
        > had spent more
        > time getting to know people and things before they
        > had.
        >
        > Ian the Green
        > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
        > Region of the Midlands
        > Middle Kingdom
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
        One of the things listed as a DON T on this list is something I ve personally been working on changing. I m currently developing a personal Household for the
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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          One of the things listed as a DON'T on this list is something I've
          personally been working on changing.

          I'm currently developing a personal Household for the purpose of being
          a resource for Newcomers. The concept is that one day, with enough
          time and energy invested by the old-timers in the Household, we would
          be able to offer our services as a Page School (of sorts) for adult
          newcomers to the Society.

          I guess the ultimate thing for Newcomers to think on is:

          ASK lots of questions and THINK about the answers _before_ you commit
          to something. The more questions you ask, the more answers you'll
          get...which gives you more information to arm yourself with when
          making decisions.

          In essence, make sure you know what the committment is all about, what
          it entails, what the expectations are, and what the "get out" clause
          is.

          Giudo di Niccolo
        • David Roland
          As an instuctor myself of over 10 years experience and as the son of a two teachers, one who retired after 40+ years in special education, I too understand the
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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            As an instuctor myself of over 10 years experience and as the son of
            a two teachers, one who retired after 40+ years in special education,
            I too understand the need to phrase things positively.

            Unfortunately, in this case it truly is a negative action in the
            classic sense. Postive being a doing action. Negative being a
            refraining from doing action.

            One I suppose could state DO refrain from... but it comes across the
            same as don't to most people.

            NEWCOMER'S Households/guilds:

            are the one exception to the household/guild rule in my mind and most
            people seem to have the wherewithall to be able to distinguish out
            that exeption. Then again nobody is perfect.

            Ian the Green
            Pragmatism is good.

            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Suzuki <jeff_suzuki@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > My main comment is that as a teacher, I do my best to
            > avoid negative phrasing ("do not"), for purely
            > psychological reasons:
            >
            > 1) There are people who take "don't" as a challenge,
            > 2) There are people who miss the "n't" (possibly a
            > subset/overlap of #1)
            >
            > Perhaps there's a "Do" list. My thoughts on what it
            > would include:
            >
            > 1) DO try everything, or at least a lot of things;
            > you might surprise yourself!
            >
            > 2) DO go to guild meetings, workshops. They're good
            > ways of meeting people.
            >
            > Etc.
            >
            > Jeffs/etc.
            >
            > --- David Roland <mystborne@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
            > >
            > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
            > > known as the Grey
            > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
            > > that the older
            > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
            > > often heard them
            > > giving their own versions.
            > >
            > > And this is what I say:
            > >
            > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
            > > what you like and
            > > explore. You might find something you like that you
            > > never thought
            > > you would. But a word of advice.
            > >
            > > In your first year DON'T.
            > >
            > > That's right DON'T.
            > >
            > > DON'T register a name.
            > >
            > > DON'T register a device.
            > >
            > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
            > >
            > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
            > > apprenticeship or squiring
            > > or other such thing.
            > >
            > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
            > > it you are more
            > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it
            > > or change it but
            > > once people are used to calling you something
            > > they're gonna keep on
            > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a
            > > name or persona
            > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
            > > few on and see
            > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
            > > names a few
            > > times before they settle on one.
            > >
            > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
            > > registering your name
            > > really.
            > >
            > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
            > > them, get the lay
            > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
            > > to know
            > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
            > > they're cool now
            > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
            > > find that you like
            > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
            > > up. That's okay.
            > >
            > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
            > > SCA are viewed
            > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
            > > them but it is a
            > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
            > > years about it.
            > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
            > > do and what the
            > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
            > > Once you DO get
            > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
            > > that light and
            > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
            > > person well before
            > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
            > > such thing.
            > >
            > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
            > > your hearts
            > > content.
            > >
            > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
            > > registering your name or
            > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
            > >
            > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
            > > her name or a
            > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do
            > > it and you should
            > > wait around to see what you want to register for
            > > certain before you
            > > do.
            > >
            > > That's the Don't Speach.
            > >
            > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
            > >
            > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
            > > plenty of stories
            > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
            > > devices and wishing
            > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even
            > > more stories of
            > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
            > > had spent more
            > > time getting to know people and things before they
            > > had.
            > >
            > > Ian the Green
            > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
            > > Region of the Midlands
            > > Middle Kingdom
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
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            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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          • Willie Walter
            ... This is a brilliant idea, Giudo, and one I would have been happy to have found in my earliest days. There s a wonderful Pages Academy here in Atlantia--for
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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              --- Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
              <giudo.brunelleschi@...> wrote:

              > I'm currently developing a personal Household for
              > the purpose of being
              > a resource for Newcomers. The concept is that one
              > day, with enough
              > time and energy invested by the old-timers in the
              > Household, we would
              > be able to offer our services as a Page School (of
              > sorts) for adult
              > newcomers to the Society.

              This is a brilliant idea, Giudo, and one I would have
              been happy to have found in my earliest days. There's
              a wonderful Pages Academy here in Atlantia--for the
              youngins. :-) I remember reading the class listings
              for my first few Universities, seeing a "newbie-ish"
              class that sounded like it was just what I
              needed...then realizing it was part of the Pages
              Academy track. :-/ If I'd asked, I probably would've
              been able to attend anyway, but I would've just
              felt...silly. Not to mention tall. :-)

              As a Chatelaine, I try to offer various topics for our
              meetings, and I know there's been more of an effort to
              have a "Newcomers Track" at our Universities, but your
              Page School would've been a real help to me--and many
              others, I'm sure.

              Let us know how you progress, okay?

              Slan,
              Grainne ingen Lugdach
              Clan Oldcastle
              Shire of Roxbury Mill
              Atlantia

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            • Susan B. Farmer
              ... We have such a household in my barony and have had for close to 20 years -- maybe even longer. It s a wonderful idea. It s not the same as forming an
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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                Quoting Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi <giudo.brunelleschi@...>:

                > One of the things listed as a DON'T on this list is something I've
                > personally been working on changing.
                >
                > I'm currently developing a personal Household for the purpose of being
                > a resource for Newcomers. The concept is that one day, with enough
                > time and energy invested by the old-timers in the Household, we would
                > be able to offer our services as a Page School (of sorts) for adult
                > newcomers to the Society.

                We have such a household in my barony and have had for close to 20
                years -- maybe even longer. It's a wonderful idea. It's not the same
                as forming "an association" such as squire/apprentice/protege.

                jerusha (co-founder of House Oak Hill)
                -----
                Susan Farmer
                sfarmer@...
                University of Tennessee
                Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                ... Other than correcting the spelling of speech , I will elect to applaud rather than heckle. The advice about not joining households or becoming a dependent
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 29, 2006
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                  On Monday 28 August 2006 22:20, David Roland wrote:
                  > That's the Don't Speach.
                  >
                  > Feel free to heckle or applaud.

                  Other than correcting the spelling of "speech", I will elect to applaud rather
                  than heckle. The advice about not joining households or becoming a dependent of
                  a peer (i.e., becoming a squire, protege, or apprentice) is really important.
                  Those are serious commitments, and as David says, they carry some long-term
                  baggage if they don't work out.

                  Good advice, not only from David but also from some of the followup posts.

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Sonja
                  I wish someone had given me the DON T Speech when I first found the SCA. I had difficulty finding people in the area that were willing to help out a newbie.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 30, 2006
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                    I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when I first found the
                    SCA.
                    I had difficulty finding people in the area that were willing to help
                    out a newbie. The only people I found ended up giving poor advice and
                    suckering us in. I found out too late that they are not the people I
                    want to be associated with and have been fighting the stigma that
                    surrounds us, since everyone associates us with them. Yup really wish I
                    had someone to tell me "DON'T".


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of David Roland
                    Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                    I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.

                    I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area known as the Grey
                    Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough that the older
                    newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have often heard them
                    giving their own versions.

                    And this is what I say:

                    You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out what you like and
                    explore. You might find something you like that you never thought
                    you would. But a word of advice.

                    In your first year DON'T.

                    That's right DON'T.

                    DON'T register a name.

                    DON'T register a device.

                    DON'T join a household, guild etc.

                    DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an apprenticeship or squiring
                    or other such thing.

                    DON'T register your name. Once you have registered it you are more
                    or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or change it but
                    once people are used to calling you something they're gonna keep on
                    calling you that name. Besides you might find a name or persona
                    that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a few on and see
                    what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change names a few
                    times before they settle on one.

                    DON'T register a device. Same reason as not registering your name
                    really.

                    DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with them, get the lay
                    of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get to know
                    people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if they're cool now
                    they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may find that you like
                    hanging out with them but don't really wanna join up. That's okay.

                    DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the SCA are viewed
                    as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of them but it is a
                    BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for years about it.
                    Take your time get to know what you really want to do and what the
                    person is really like and what their reputation is. Once you DO get
                    attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in that light and
                    will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the person well before
                    you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other such thing.

                    Take your time, explore things and research them to your hearts
                    content.

                    And if anyone gives you any guff over not registering your name or
                    device, politely tell them to lay off.

                    I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered her name or a
                    device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it and you should
                    wait around to see what you want to register for certain before you
                    do.

                    That's the Don't Speach.

                    Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)

                    If you like it though, spread the word. There are plenty of stories
                    in the SCA of people having registered names or devices and wishing
                    they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more stories of
                    having joined a household or guild and wishing they had spent more
                    time getting to know people and things before they had.

                    Ian the Green
                    Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                    Region of the Midlands
                    Middle Kingdom



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Janet
                    I almost had this same problem... There was a household in my area that was causing issues and they tried to recruit us when we first joined. Thank goodness we
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 30, 2006
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                      I almost had this same problem...
                      There was a household in my area that was causing
                      issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                      joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                      they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                      with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                      would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                      many people in your local group (and also the
                      surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                      makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                      talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                      a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                      troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                      happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                      talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                      new friends you can make).

                      --- Sonja <sonja_n@...> wrote:

                      > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                      > I first found the
                      > SCA.
                      > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                      > were willing to help
                      > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                      > giving poor advice and
                      > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                      > not the people I
                      > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                      > the stigma that
                      > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                      > them. Yup really wish I
                      > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                      > On Behalf Of David Roland
                      > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                      > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                      > Newcomers
                      >
                      > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                      >
                      > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                      > known as the Grey
                      > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                      > that the older
                      > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                      > often heard them
                      > giving their own versions.
                      >
                      > And this is what I say:
                      >
                      > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                      > what you like and
                      > explore. You might find something you like that you
                      > never thought
                      > you would. But a word of advice.
                      >
                      > In your first year DON'T.
                      >
                      > That's right DON'T.
                      >
                      > DON'T register a name.
                      >
                      > DON'T register a device.
                      >
                      > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                      >
                      > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                      > apprenticeship or squiring
                      > or other such thing.
                      >
                      > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                      > it you are more
                      > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                      > change it but
                      > once people are used to calling you something
                      > they're gonna keep on
                      > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                      > or persona
                      > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                      > few on and see
                      > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                      > names a few
                      > times before they settle on one.
                      >
                      > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                      > registering your name
                      > really.
                      >
                      > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                      > them, get the lay
                      > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                      > to know
                      > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                      > they're cool now
                      > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                      > find that you like
                      > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                      > up. That's okay.
                      >
                      > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                      > SCA are viewed
                      > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                      > them but it is a
                      > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                      > years about it.
                      > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                      > do and what the
                      > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                      > Once you DO get
                      > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                      > that light and
                      > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                      > person well before
                      > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                      > such thing.
                      >
                      > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                      > your hearts
                      > content.
                      >
                      > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                      > registering your name or
                      > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                      >
                      > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                      > her name or a
                      > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                      > and you should
                      > wait around to see what you want to register for
                      > certain before you
                      > do.
                      >
                      > That's the Don't Speach.
                      >
                      > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                      >
                      > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                      > plenty of stories
                      > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                      > devices and wishing
                      > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                      > stories of
                      > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                      > had spent more
                      > time getting to know people and things before they
                      > had.
                      >
                      > Ian the Green
                      > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                      > Region of the Midlands
                      > Middle Kingdom
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      ... The SCA has about 35,000 members worldwide. If 99% of them are wonderful people, that still leaves 350 jerks. :-) Avoid the jerks, play with everyone else,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 30, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Wednesday 30 August 2006 16:56, Janet wrote:
                        > yes, I hate to say that there are
                        > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                        > happens

                        The SCA has about 35,000 members worldwide. If 99% of them are wonderful
                        people, that still leaves 350 jerks. :-)

                        Avoid the jerks, play with everyone else, is the way I try to do it.

                        Justin

                        --
                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                        keys fesswise reversed sable.

                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      • David Roland
                        *snip* ... Umm that is just the PAYING members. The normal estimate is that for every PAYING member there are between 1 to 2 NON-paying members that play
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 30, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          *snip*
                          > The SCA has about 35,000 members worldwide. If 99% of them are
                          >wonderful people, that still leaves 350 jerks. :-)

                          Umm that is just the PAYING members. The normal estimate is that
                          for every PAYING member there are between 1 to 2 NON-paying members
                          that play regularly as well.

                          So now that number jumps to between 70,000 and 105,000 people
                          playing in the SCA worldwide.

                          Well we're in good company folks. Rememmber, we are a society based
                          on Chivalry and courtesy. Anyone can have a bad day and we should
                          likely give them the benefit of the doubt, however, once in a while
                          is one thing. IF they are OFTEN rude and wrong in their social
                          interactions it is okay to mentally label them a jerk, make a note
                          of it and avoid them purposefully.

                          Rarely is there a need, though it does happen, to be rude in return.

                          So in keeping with the positivist methods:

                          DO be polite to the best of your ability.

                          DO be willing to see past people's foibles.

                          DO help out anyone who looks like they need help, that includes
                          socially. (That is also one of the hardest ways to help but oh so
                          important.)

                          And just remember if you are not a part of the solution you are a
                          part of the precipitate.

                          On an update note...

                          I just got off the phone with one of the older newcomers of my
                          group. She is getting her boyfriend involved in the SCA. She let me
                          know that she had already given him the "Don't Speach," and won't
                          let him make those mistakes. :-) I'm so happy!

                          Ian the Green
                        • Sonja
                          We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole experience left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to try it again. I have
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 31, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole experience
                            left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to try it
                            again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people and
                            explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people will
                            know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am NOT like.



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Janet
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                            I almost had this same problem...
                            There was a household in my area that was causing
                            issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                            joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                            they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                            with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                            would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                            many people in your local group (and also the
                            surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                            makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                            talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                            a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                            troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                            happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                            talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                            new friends you can make).

                            --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net> net> wrote:

                            > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                            > I first found the
                            > SCA.
                            > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                            > were willing to help
                            > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                            > giving poor advice and
                            > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                            > not the people I
                            > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                            > the stigma that
                            > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                            > them. Yup really wish I
                            > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com]
                            > On Behalf Of David Roland
                            > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                            > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                            > Newcomers
                            >
                            > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                            >
                            > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                            > known as the Grey
                            > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                            > that the older
                            > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                            > often heard them
                            > giving their own versions.
                            >
                            > And this is what I say:
                            >
                            > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                            > what you like and
                            > explore. You might find something you like that you
                            > never thought
                            > you would. But a word of advice.
                            >
                            > In your first year DON'T.
                            >
                            > That's right DON'T.
                            >
                            > DON'T register a name.
                            >
                            > DON'T register a device.
                            >
                            > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                            >
                            > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                            > apprenticeship or squiring
                            > or other such thing.
                            >
                            > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                            > it you are more
                            > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                            > change it but
                            > once people are used to calling you something
                            > they're gonna keep on
                            > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                            > or persona
                            > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                            > few on and see
                            > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                            > names a few
                            > times before they settle on one.
                            >
                            > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                            > registering your name
                            > really.
                            >
                            > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                            > them, get the lay
                            > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                            > to know
                            > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                            > they're cool now
                            > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                            > find that you like
                            > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                            > up. That's okay.
                            >
                            > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                            > SCA are viewed
                            > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                            > them but it is a
                            > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                            > years about it.
                            > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                            > do and what the
                            > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                            > Once you DO get
                            > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                            > that light and
                            > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                            > person well before
                            > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                            > such thing.
                            >
                            > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                            > your hearts
                            > content.
                            >
                            > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                            > registering your name or
                            > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                            >
                            > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                            > her name or a
                            > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                            > and you should
                            > wait around to see what you want to register for
                            > certain before you
                            > do.
                            >
                            > That's the Don't Speach.
                            >
                            > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                            >
                            > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                            > plenty of stories
                            > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                            > devices and wishing
                            > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                            > stories of
                            > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                            > had spent more
                            > time getting to know people and things before they
                            > had.
                            >
                            > Ian the Green
                            > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                            > Region of the Midlands
                            > Middle Kingdom
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >

                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Roland
                            YAY! Welcome back! Ian the Green ... experience ... try it ... will ... like. ... [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 31, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              YAY! Welcome back!

                              Ian the Green

                              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                              experience
                              > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                              try it
                              > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people and
                              > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                              will
                              > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am NOT
                              like.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                              > On Behalf Of Janet
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                              >
                              > I almost had this same problem...
                              > There was a household in my area that was causing
                              > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                              > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                              > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                              > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                              > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                              > many people in your local group (and also the
                              > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                              > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                              > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                              > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                              > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                              > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                              > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                              > new friends you can make).
                              >
                              > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net> net>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                              > > I first found the
                              > > SCA.
                              > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                              > > were willing to help
                              > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                              > > giving poor advice and
                              > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                              > > not the people I
                              > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                              > > the stigma that
                              > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                              > > them. Yup really wish I
                              > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com]
                              > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                              > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                              > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                              > > Newcomers
                              > >
                              > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                              > >
                              > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                              > > known as the Grey
                              > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                              > > that the older
                              > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                              > > often heard them
                              > > giving their own versions.
                              > >
                              > > And this is what I say:
                              > >
                              > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                              > > what you like and
                              > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                              > > never thought
                              > > you would. But a word of advice.
                              > >
                              > > In your first year DON'T.
                              > >
                              > > That's right DON'T.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T register a name.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T register a device.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                              > > apprenticeship or squiring
                              > > or other such thing.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                              > > it you are more
                              > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                              > > change it but
                              > > once people are used to calling you something
                              > > they're gonna keep on
                              > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                              > > or persona
                              > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                              > > few on and see
                              > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                              > > names a few
                              > > times before they settle on one.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                              > > registering your name
                              > > really.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                              > > them, get the lay
                              > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                              > > to know
                              > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                              > > they're cool now
                              > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                              > > find that you like
                              > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                              > > up. That's okay.
                              > >
                              > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                              > > SCA are viewed
                              > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                              > > them but it is a
                              > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                              > > years about it.
                              > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                              > > do and what the
                              > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                              > > Once you DO get
                              > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                              > > that light and
                              > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                              > > person well before
                              > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                              > > such thing.
                              > >
                              > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                              > > your hearts
                              > > content.
                              > >
                              > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                              > > registering your name or
                              > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                              > >
                              > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                              > > her name or a
                              > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                              > > and you should
                              > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                              > > certain before you
                              > > do.
                              > >
                              > > That's the Don't Speach.
                              > >
                              > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                              > >
                              > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                              > > plenty of stories
                              > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                              > > devices and wishing
                              > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                              > > stories of
                              > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                              > > had spent more
                              > > time getting to know people and things before they
                              > > had.
                              > >
                              > > Ian the Green
                              > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                              > > Region of the Midlands
                              > > Middle Kingdom
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • shandra_
                              Could the original poster of the Don t Speech please contact me? I would love to get permission to include this in a newcomer s packet . ~Shandra Chatelaine
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 31, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Could the original poster of the Don't Speech please contact me? I
                                would love to get permission to include this in a "newcomer's packet".



                                ~Shandra

                                Chatelaine of the Canton of Axed Root

                                Kingdom of Calontir

                                chatelaine@...
                              • Sonja
                                Thanks for the boisterous response! ... From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Roland Sent: Thursday,
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 31, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks for the boisterous response!

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of David Roland
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers

                                  YAY! Welcome back!

                                  Ian the Green

                                  --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                  experience
                                  > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                  try it
                                  > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people and
                                  > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                  will
                                  > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am NOT
                                  like.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com]
                                  > On Behalf Of Janet
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                  > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                  >
                                  > I almost had this same problem...
                                  > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                  > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                  > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                  > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                  > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                  > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                  > many people in your local group (and also the
                                  > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                  > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                  > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                  > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                  > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                  > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                  > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                  > new friends you can make).
                                  >
                                  > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net> net>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                  > > I first found the
                                  > > SCA.
                                  > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                  > > were willing to help
                                  > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                  > > giving poor advice and
                                  > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                  > > not the people I
                                  > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                  > > the stigma that
                                  > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                  > > them. Yup really wish I
                                  > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com
                                  > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com]
                                  > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                  > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                  > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                  > > Newcomers
                                  > >
                                  > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                  > > known as the Grey
                                  > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                  > > that the older
                                  > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                  > > often heard them
                                  > > giving their own versions.
                                  > >
                                  > > And this is what I say:
                                  > >
                                  > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                  > > what you like and
                                  > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                  > > never thought
                                  > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                  > >
                                  > > In your first year DON'T.
                                  > >
                                  > > That's right DON'T.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T register a name.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T register a device.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                  > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                  > > or other such thing.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                  > > it you are more
                                  > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                  > > change it but
                                  > > once people are used to calling you something
                                  > > they're gonna keep on
                                  > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                  > > or persona
                                  > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                  > > few on and see
                                  > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                  > > names a few
                                  > > times before they settle on one.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                  > > registering your name
                                  > > really.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                  > > them, get the lay
                                  > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                  > > to know
                                  > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                  > > they're cool now
                                  > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                  > > find that you like
                                  > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                  > > up. That's okay.
                                  > >
                                  > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                  > > SCA are viewed
                                  > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                  > > them but it is a
                                  > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                  > > years about it.
                                  > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                  > > do and what the
                                  > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                  > > Once you DO get
                                  > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                  > > that light and
                                  > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                  > > person well before
                                  > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                  > > such thing.
                                  > >
                                  > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                  > > your hearts
                                  > > content.
                                  > >
                                  > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                  > > registering your name or
                                  > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                  > > her name or a
                                  > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                  > > and you should
                                  > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                  > > certain before you
                                  > > do.
                                  > >
                                  > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                  > >
                                  > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                  > >
                                  > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                  > > plenty of stories
                                  > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                  > > devices and wishing
                                  > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                  > > stories of
                                  > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                  > > had spent more
                                  > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                  > > had.
                                  > >
                                  > > Ian the Green
                                  > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                  > > Region of the Midlands
                                  > > Middle Kingdom
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > > removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                  yahoo.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Daly
                                  ... Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and had to join in. I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people in
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 3, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                                    had to join in.
                                    I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                    in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                                    you're on your own, newbie."
                                    I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                    has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                                    I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                    meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                                    the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                    includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                                    the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                    that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                                    Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                    You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                    your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                    to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                    efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                    apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                    guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                    Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                                    to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                                    me. And, I am way past those years.
                                    I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                    this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                    Thanks, Daly


                                    > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                    > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    >
                                    > YAY! Welcome back!
                                    >
                                    > Ian the Green
                                    >
                                    > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                    > experience
                                    > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                    > try it
                                    > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                                    and
                                    > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                    > will
                                    > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                                    NOT
                                    > like.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                    > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                    > >
                                    > > I almost had this same problem...
                                    > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                    > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                    > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                    > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                    > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                    > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                    > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                    > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                    > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                    > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                    > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                    > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                    > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                    > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                    > > new friends you can make).
                                    > >
                                    > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                    net>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                    > > > I first found the
                                    > > > SCA.
                                    > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                    > > > were willing to help
                                    > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                    > > > giving poor advice and
                                    > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                    > > > not the people I
                                    > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                    > > > the stigma that
                                    > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                    > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                    > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                    > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                    > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                    > > > Newcomers
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                    > > > known as the Grey
                                    > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                    > > > that the older
                                    > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                    > > > often heard them
                                    > > > giving their own versions.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And this is what I say:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                    > > > what you like and
                                    > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                    > > > never thought
                                    > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That's right DON'T.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a name.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a device.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                    > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                    > > > or other such thing.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                    > > > it you are more
                                    > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                    > > > change it but
                                    > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                    > > > they're gonna keep on
                                    > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                    > > > or persona
                                    > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                    > > > few on and see
                                    > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                    > > > names a few
                                    > > > times before they settle on one.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                    > > > registering your name
                                    > > > really.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                    > > > them, get the lay
                                    > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                    > > > to know
                                    > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                    > > > they're cool now
                                    > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                    > > > find that you like
                                    > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                    > > > up. That's okay.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                    > > > SCA are viewed
                                    > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                    > > > them but it is a
                                    > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                    > > > years about it.
                                    > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                    > > > do and what the
                                    > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                    > > > Once you DO get
                                    > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                    > > > that light and
                                    > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                    > > > person well before
                                    > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                    > > > such thing.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                    > > > your hearts
                                    > > > content.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                    > > > registering your name or
                                    > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                    > > > her name or a
                                    > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                    > > > and you should
                                    > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                    > > > certain before you
                                    > > > do.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                    > > > plenty of stories
                                    > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                    > > > devices and wishing
                                    > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                    > > > stories of
                                    > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                    > > > had spent more
                                    > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                    > > > had.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ian the Green
                                    > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                    > > > Region of the Midlands
                                    > > > Middle Kingdom
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > > removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                    > yahoo.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • suzanne vaughn
                                    WOW! As a Chatelaine and a 2yr old member (still pretty new) I can say that is not how it is in every shire or kingdom. What area are you in? On a Kingdom
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 4, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      WOW! As a Chatelaine and a 2yr old member (still pretty new) I can say that is not how it is in every shire or kingdom. What area are you in? On a Kingdom level, when I have been at events, often it is I who says something to someone else about what it is they are doing or watching. Please don't give up on the SCA. There really are great people here and most don't expect you to prove your skills first. Most want to help and teach and share what they know. Just like in the rest of the world, there are all kinds in the SCA. To be in a guild or a household or be an apprentice, yes you have to prove yourself or have like interest, but not just to hang out and have a good time. There is so much more to the SCA than those things. One suggestion would be try a neighboring shire. We have people in our shire who come from other shires because they like ours better, and I am sure that goes both ways.

                                      Welcome to the SCA.

                                      Fiona
                                      Daly <dalyboyd@...> wrote:
                                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      Greetings, I recently joined the SCA. I saw this series of posts and
                                      had to join in.
                                      I have not had the best of experiences so far. I find the people
                                      in the group have the attitude "we want you here for the stats, but
                                      you're on your own, newbie."
                                      I have been going to every populace and A&S workshop this Shire
                                      has offered trying to learn what I can and "fit in". I never know if
                                      I will be acknowledged by members of this group from meeting to
                                      meeting. This weekend, I attended my first Kingdom event. Noone at
                                      the affair spoke to me or my family, not even a "Good-day", that
                                      includes all but three of my shire members. So, today I spoke with
                                      the Shire Chatelaine and as tactfully as I could asked why it is
                                      that noone seems to be openly friendly to new people, that included
                                      Shire members. This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                      You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                      your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                      to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                      efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                      apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                      guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                      Now, I am trying to decide whether it is worth that kind of effort
                                      to be "accepted". It seems awfully college sorority/fraternity to
                                      me. And, I am way past those years.
                                      I have only lived in this state three years. Please tell me that
                                      this is not a typical attitude of the members of the SCA.
                                      Thanks, Daly

                                      > Thanks for the boisterous response!
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]
                                      > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                      > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:53 AM
                                      > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                      >
                                      > YAY! Welcome back!
                                      >
                                      > Ian the Green
                                      >
                                      > --- In scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <sonja_n@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > We had walked away from the SCA for a few years as the whole
                                      > experience
                                      > > left a bad taste in out mouths. We recently made the decision to
                                      > try it
                                      > > again. I have been trying to get "out there" and meet new people
                                      and
                                      > > explore new things. So far, so good. I am determined that people
                                      > will
                                      > > know who and what I am really like and thereby know what I am
                                      NOT
                                      > like.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > yahoogroups.com]
                                      > > On Behalf Of Janet
                                      > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                                      > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all Newcomers
                                      > >
                                      > > I almost had this same problem...
                                      > > There was a household in my area that was causing
                                      > > issues and they tried to recruit us when we first
                                      > > joined. Thank goodness we realized soon enough that
                                      > > they weren't the best folks to be hanging out
                                      > > with....so I add another agreement to the "don't" and
                                      > > would like to add that you should try to talk to as
                                      > > many people in your local group (and also the
                                      > > surrounding area) as possible. If there are trouble
                                      > > makers, etc. you'll find out really quickly if you are
                                      > > talking to everyone and not just limiting yourself to
                                      > > a small group. (yes, I hate to say that there are
                                      > > troublemakers in the SCA, but like any group, it
                                      > > happens). I hope this helps. (plus the more people you
                                      > > talk to, the more cool stuff you'll learn and the more
                                      > > new friends you can make).
                                      > >
                                      > > --- Sonja <sonja_n@adelphia. <mailto:sonja_n%40adelphia.net>
                                      net>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > I wish someone had given me the "DON'T Speech" when
                                      > > > I first found the
                                      > > > SCA.
                                      > > > I had difficulty finding people in the area that
                                      > > > were willing to help
                                      > > > out a newbie. The only people I found ended up
                                      > > > giving poor advice and
                                      > > > suckering us in. I found out too late that they are
                                      > > > not the people I
                                      > > > want to be associated with and have been fighting
                                      > > > the stigma that
                                      > > > surrounds us, since everyone associates us with
                                      > > > them. Yup really wish I
                                      > > > had someone to tell me "DON'T".
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > [mailto:scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > yahoogroups.com]
                                      > > > On Behalf Of David Roland
                                      > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:21 PM
                                      > > > To: scanewcomers@ <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] The Don't Speach for all
                                      > > > Newcomers
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area
                                      > > > known as the Grey
                                      > > > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough
                                      > > > that the older
                                      > > > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have
                                      > > > often heard them
                                      > > > giving their own versions.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > And this is what I say:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out
                                      > > > what you like and
                                      > > > explore. You might find something you like that you
                                      > > > never thought
                                      > > > you would. But a word of advice.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In your first year DON'T.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > That's right DON'T.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T register a name.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T register a device.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an
                                      > > > apprenticeship or squiring
                                      > > > or other such thing.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered
                                      > > > it you are more
                                      > > > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or
                                      > > > change it but
                                      > > > once people are used to calling you something
                                      > > > they're gonna keep on
                                      > > > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name
                                      > > > or persona
                                      > > > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a
                                      > > > few on and see
                                      > > > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change
                                      > > > names a few
                                      > > > times before they settle on one.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not
                                      > > > registering your name
                                      > > > really.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with
                                      > > > them, get the lay
                                      > > > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get
                                      > > > to know
                                      > > > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if
                                      > > > they're cool now
                                      > > > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may
                                      > > > find that you like
                                      > > > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join
                                      > > > up. That's okay.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the
                                      > > > SCA are viewed
                                      > > > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of
                                      > > > them but it is a
                                      > > > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for
                                      > > > years about it.
                                      > > > Take your time get to know what you really want to
                                      > > > do and what the
                                      > > > person is really like and what their reputation is.
                                      > > > Once you DO get
                                      > > > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in
                                      > > > that light and
                                      > > > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the
                                      > > > person well before
                                      > > > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other
                                      > > > such thing.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Take your time, explore things and research them to
                                      > > > your hearts
                                      > > > content.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > And if anyone gives you any guff over not
                                      > > > registering your name or
                                      > > > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered
                                      > > > her name or a
                                      > > > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it
                                      > > > and you should
                                      > > > wait around to see what you want to register for
                                      > > > certain before you
                                      > > > do.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > That's the Don't Speach.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > If you like it though, spread the word. There are
                                      > > > plenty of stories
                                      > > > in the SCA of people having registered names or
                                      > > > devices and wishing
                                      > > > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more
                                      > > > stories of
                                      > > > having joined a household or guild and wishing they
                                      > > > had spent more
                                      > > > time getting to know people and things before they
                                      > > > had.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ian the Green
                                      > > > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                      > > > Region of the Midlands
                                      > > > Middle Kingdom
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > > > removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > __________________________________________________
                                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                      > > http://mail. <http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
                                      > yahoo.com
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >






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                                    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                                      ... I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                        On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
                                        > You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA.  You find
                                        > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                        > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                        > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                        > apprenticeship of some kind.  Then, you will become a member of a
                                        > guild/household and be accepted officially.

                                        I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right
                                        now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
                                        nonsense! (I'm not angry at you, but whoever told you this. What a load
                                        of garbage.)

                                        Justin

                                        --
                                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                        keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                                        ... All right, Uncle Justin has had his temper tantrum and will now respond like a civilized human being. :-) Good M Lord, Others have responded well to this
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                          On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
                                          > This is my interpretation of what I was told:
                                          >   You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA.  You find
                                          > your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                          > to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                          > efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                          > apprenticeship of some kind.  Then, you will become a member of a
                                          > guild/household and be accepted officially.

                                          All right, Uncle Justin has had his temper tantrum and will now respond
                                          like a civilized human being. :-)

                                          Good M'Lord,

                                          Others have responded well to this with some very good suggestions,
                                          including playing with another nearby shire. I'll start by talking about
                                          the rules and policies of the matter.

                                          I am not trying to be legalistic when quoting policies below, but rather
                                          I do so to back up what I am saying with documentable fact rather than
                                          merely my opinion. :-)

                                          First, quoting from corporate policy (Governing Documents, II.B):

                                          "Anyone may attend Society events provided he or she wears an attempt
                                          at pre-17th century clothing, conforms to the provisions in Corpora,
                                          and complies with any other requirements (such as site fees or waivers)
                                          which may be imposed. At business meetings and informal classes,
                                          the requirement to wear pre-17th century dress may be waived. All
                                          participants are expected to behave as ladies or gentlemen."

                                          Shire meetings are "Society events" in this context, so you are welcome
                                          to attend the meetings of any shire or other local group to which you're
                                          able to travel. I mention this because there is often a myth that one
                                          has to play in the group that claims the land where you live. This is not
                                          the case, as Lady Fiono has pointed out. In fact, it is quite *common* for
                                          people to play in different shires from where they live, simply due to
                                          interest or friendship.

                                          Second, guilds are frequently unofficial, and households are always
                                          unofficial, so the notion that you cannot be "officially accepted" in the
                                          Society for Creative Anachronism until you belong to a household or
                                          guild is completely, totally, absolutely wrong. Quoting once again
                                          from the Governing Documents (section I.E):

                                          "In many kingdoms, there are groups in which many people participate
                                          but which are not formally recognized by the Society. These can range
                                          from highly structured guilds to loosely associated camping groups.
                                          Entities that fall into this category can have many names, including
                                          but not limited to households, guilds, ships, and clans. Although
                                          these entities are not recognized by the Society in any formal way,
                                          some kingdoms have awards that can be given to these groups. Because
                                          they are not official Society groups, unofficial entities cannot
                                          sponsor Society events."

                                          All right, enough legalese. That's the policy, in a nutshell. The entire
                                          Governing Documents are online at http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf .
                                          The bottom line is, you can play in whatever SCA group you wish, and you
                                          don't have to be a member of a household or guild in order to be part of
                                          the SCA.

                                          SCA titles and awards are a wonderful way for the organization -- by way
                                          of the Kings and Queens -- to say "thank you" for a job well done. Awards
                                          help to encourage and motivate people by demonstrating that their service
                                          is appreciated and valued. But awards should not be an end in themselves,
                                          nor should they be thought of as a way to set anyone above anyone else.

                                          When I read what you have written above, what I see -- except for the
                                          ending -- is a pretty decent recipe for how to view awards and honors.
                                          Find what you like to do and are good at, do it well and often, and have
                                          a great deal of fun with your friends along the way. Some day, in all
                                          likelihood, you will be pleasantly surprised to be called into Court and
                                          thanked with an award scroll. You will have done good service for all the
                                          right reasons, and can be justifiably proud of the award you receive.
                                          But that last part, suggesting that you can only be accepted based on
                                          your awards or on attachment to some household, guild, or Peer, is
                                          troubling.

                                          One might hope that your question was misunderstood. Perhaps the Chatelaine
                                          thought you were asking how you could belong to some particular subgroup
                                          within your shire, not the shire itself. Consider this possibility, and
                                          whether or not you need to re-ask the question in a different way. If naught
                                          else, the Chatelaine is human and may have misspoken through simple error.
                                          I make a point of trying to assume the best of *motive* even for actions
                                          that are incomprehensible; we all have a bad day and we all make mistakes.
                                          If the intent really was as rude as it sounds, though, that is inexcusable.

                                          The reason you have not been warmly welcomed in your local group may have
                                          very little to do with you and a lot to do with the group members' own
                                          insecurities. The SCA tends to be very accepting of people with all kinds
                                          of different personalities, and sometimes we have shires with a few who
                                          just don't quite know how to be friendly to strangers. I'm not meaning that
                                          in a sarcastic way at all -- there are some people in the SCA who are very
                                          nice once you get acquainted, but who for one reason or another literally
                                          never developed some of the social skills and polish that most of us take
                                          for granted.

                                          My lady and I have both been in the SCA for over 15 years. A couple of years
                                          ago, we attended an event at a shire in another part of our Kingdom and were
                                          amazed that no one greeted us at all. We were at a local event where as far
                                          as I could tell we were almost the *only* guests; just about every one else
                                          there was from the local shire. Normally, local groups are thrilled to have
                                          people attend their events because, among other things, that's WHY WE DO
                                          EVENTS in the first place. I'm not saying we should have been welcomed because
                                          of awards or offices, but simply because we were visitors. It didn't happen,
                                          all day long. We felt really strange, because this is the only time this has
                                          ever happened to us in 15+ years.

                                          Others have told us of similar experiences at that particular shire's events.
                                          We weren't singled out or anything, it's just that this specific group of
                                          people aren't very socially polished. I think they just don't know *how* to
                                          welcome visitors and newcomers. Once you get to know them, they're quite nice.

                                          So, what can you do about it?

                                          First, although this sounds difficult, give it some time. Maybe the people
                                          in the local group are shy themselves, and just don't know how to relate
                                          to you. Maybe, deep down, they're very nervous about meeting you and react
                                          to this by withdrawing to their comfort zone. Keep going to meetings, and
                                          eventually people will figure out that (1) you don't bite, and (2) you're
                                          serious about joining the group.

                                          Second, try to expand your participation outside this one local group.
                                          Going to other events in your area will help to broaden the type of people
                                          you meet, and you're bound to connect with someone soon. Once you make your
                                          first acquaintances, you'll find yourself getting introduced to more and
                                          more people by them and then by their friends and so on. Sooner or later,
                                          that circle of introductions will come back to your local group, and you will
                                          find that you have a connection there after all. If the front door is barred,
                                          try the back door. :-)

                                          Ian the Green has made two additional points that I wholeheartedly support
                                          and will (with acknowledgment to Ian) echo as my "third and fourth"...

                                          Third, take the initiative to make first contact, in a polite way, for
                                          topics that interest you. This is, as Ian points out, a great way to join
                                          a conversation in progress.

                                          Fourth, ask SCA folk about things they are doing that look interesting to
                                          you. Most of us *love* to talk about our interests in this hobby's many
                                          aspects. This technique particularly works when you approach someone who is
                                          temporarily not involved in another conversation and who doesn't seem to be
                                          either really busy or specifically seeking solitude.

                                          Fifth -- and here I acknowledge Brangwayna's post -- volunteer to help at
                                          events, when you see something that needs doing. Nobody should feel they have
                                          to work like a slave in order to be accepted in the SCA, but as Brangwayna
                                          points out, we run on almost 100% volunteer labor, and as such, volunteering
                                          is one way to earn respect. If you're one of the three or four people who
                                          volunteer to do kitchen cleanup after feast, you can be sure that at least
                                          the cooks will consider you a saint. :-) Don't try to volunteer to be the
                                          group Seneschal, an event Autocrat, etc., until you have some more experience.
                                          People will have a problem with that, and with good reason, because you really
                                          *do* need to know the SCA's rules and customs pretty well before holding office.
                                          But there are plenty of opportunities to volunteer in other areas. If someone
                                          doing a job looks as if they're overworked, simply walk up and volunteer to
                                          help. In the SCA, most working tasks turn into conversations and socializing
                                          while the work is getting done. (I've often been in the kitchen doing dishes
                                          and had it turn into a bardic circle right there in the kitchen.)

                                          Sixth, if all of the above fail, consider abandoning that local group and
                                          finding another nearby group that is more welcoming. There are, alas, a few
                                          local groups that are just plain dysfunctional because they happen to be
                                          made up of a statistical majority of immature, self-centered people. Give your
                                          local group every benefit of the doubt before concluding this, because it is
                                          a very, VERY rare situation, but if you try and try and try and just can't
                                          seem to make it work, you may have found one of those very rare groups. Don't
                                          give up on the SCA. Come and play with the rest of us who act like grown-ups.
                                          Well, okay, we play dress-up and hit people with rattan sticks, but we mostly
                                          act like grown-ups otherwise. :-)

                                          I hope this is helpful. Whatever the cause of the misunderstandings with your
                                          local group, I do apologize for the hurt feelings that have been caused, even
                                          if it's just an innocent misunderstanding on your part or theirs. It is always
                                          unfortunate when someone's first exposure to the SCA is unpleasant. Please rest
                                          assured this organization is full of wonderful people who would be honored
                                          to make your acquaintance. You've just met about 1100 of them on this list. :-)

                                          Kind regards,

                                          Justin

                                          --
                                          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                          keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                        • Susan B. Farmer
                                          ... I ll second that irate-ness. If I knew that you were in my Kingdom (Meridies), I d make it a point to speak to the society seneschal and the king this
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                            Quoting Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...>:

                                            > On Sunday 03 September 2006 23:09, Daly wrote:
                                            >> You EARN the right to be an honored member of the SCA. You find
                                            >> your specialty, work hard to learn/develop it on your own, volunteer
                                            >> to help at every event and hope that some day your talents and
                                            >> efforts are noticed by someone more experienced who offers you an
                                            >> apprenticeship of some kind. Then, you will become a member of a
                                            >> guild/household and be accepted officially.
                                            >
                                            > I will have a more reasoned response after my temper cools down, but right
                                            > now I am *furious* to hear that you were told such things. This is utter
                                            > nonsense! (I'm not angry at you, but whoever told you this. What a load
                                            > of garbage.)
                                            >

                                            I'll second that irate-ness. If I knew that you were in my Kingdom
                                            (Meridies), I'd make it a point to speak to the society seneschal and
                                            the king this weekend (Coronation) -- that's the biggest load of crap
                                            I've seen since the fertilizer truck left us a load!

                                            I daresay that there's somebody from every kingdom on this list --
                                            maybe this post should make the rounds of the various Kingdom
                                            Seneschal's e-lists .....

                                            jerusha
                                            -----
                                            Susan Farmer
                                            sfarmer@...
                                            University of Tennessee
                                            Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                                            http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
                                          • Signora Beatrice
                                            Greetings from Beatrice. As it has been a little while since this has graced the list, I figure I d post it again (I m hoping Ian won t mind), with a few extra
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jun 2, 2007
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                                              Greetings from Beatrice.

                                              As it has been a little while since this has graced the list, I figure I'd
                                              post it again (I'm hoping Ian won't mind), with a few extra DON'T messages
                                              from me:

                                              DON'T sweat it. This is fun, people are generally nice, forgiving, and
                                              willing to help.

                                              DON'T take any ONE person's word for anything. There are a lot of myths
                                              out there, and even more mis-informed but well-intentioned people.

                                              DON'T take it personally if you have a bad experience. Sometimes, people
                                              have a bad day.

                                              DON'T be afraid to ask questions. No matter how "stupid" "silly" "basic"
                                              or "annoying" you thing they might be.


                                              *Evil grins* So, those of you not-so-newbies out there. Anything else
                                              you'd add to the DON'T list?


                                              --- David Roland <mystborne@...> wrote:

                                              > I feel the urge to give the Don't Speach again.
                                              >
                                              > I'm the Chatelaine for a group in the Chicago Area known as the Grey
                                              > Gargoyles. And I give the Don't Speach often enough that the older
                                              > newcomers can probably quote me on it and I have often heard them
                                              > giving their own versions.
                                              >
                                              > And this is what I say:
                                              >
                                              > You're new to the SCA come check it out, find out what you like and
                                              > explore. You might find something you like that you never thought
                                              > you would. But a word of advice.
                                              >
                                              > In your first year DON'T.
                                              >
                                              > That's right DON'T.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T register a name.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T register a device.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T join a household, guild etc.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T attach yourself to someone as in an apprenticeship or squiring
                                              > or other such thing.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T register your name. Once you have registered it you are more
                                              > or less stuck with it. Sure you can unregister it or change it but
                                              > once people are used to calling you something they're gonna keep on
                                              > calling you that name. Besides you might find a name or persona
                                              > that you think is cooler later on. Chill out try a few on and see
                                              > what sticks. Most newcomers in my experience change names a few
                                              > times before they settle on one.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T register a device. Same reason as not registering your name
                                              > really.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T Join a household, guild etc. Hang out with them, get the lay
                                              > of the land and the internal politics, have fun, get to know
                                              > people. IF they're cool now, great! But really if they're cool now
                                              > they'll be cool in a year just the same. You may find that you like
                                              > hanging out with them but don't really wanna join up. That's okay.
                                              >
                                              > DON'T attach yourself. Those kinds of things in the SCA are viewed
                                              > as permanent and forever. Yes, you can get out of them but it is a
                                              > BIG deal when that happens and people will talk for years about it.
                                              > Take your time get to know what you really want to do and what the
                                              > person is really like and what their reputation is. Once you DO get
                                              > attached to a person you WILL ALWAYS be judged in that light and
                                              > will ALWAYS be associated that way. So know the person well before
                                              > you get attached as a squire or apprentice or other such thing.
                                              >
                                              > Take your time, explore things and research them to your hearts
                                              > content.
                                              >
                                              > And if anyone gives you any guff over not registering your name or
                                              > device, politely tell them to lay off.
                                              >
                                              > I'm an apprentice and my Laurel has NEVER registered her name or a
                                              > device. NEVER. You simply are NOT required to do it and you should
                                              > wait around to see what you want to register for certain before you
                                              > do.
                                              >
                                              > That's the Don't Speach.
                                              >
                                              > Feel free to heckle or applaud. :-)
                                              >
                                              > If you like it though, spread the word. There are plenty of stories
                                              > in the SCA of people having registered names or devices and wishing
                                              > they hadn't and being "stuck" with it. And even more stories of
                                              > having joined a household or guild and wishing they had spent more
                                              > time getting to know people and things before they had.
                                              >
                                              > Ian the Green
                                              > Chatelaine - Grey Gargoyles
                                              > Region of the Midlands
                                              > Middle Kingdom
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              In Service to Lioncourt Manor and An Tir,
                                              Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana



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