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RE: dances_with_salmon

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  • Callahan
    Greetings: On the Feileadh-Mhor issue I found Wrapping and Wearing the Great Kilt at http://www.tartanweb.com/greatkilt/breacan03.htm. This particular method
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 26, 2006
      Greetings:

      On the Feileadh-Mhor issue I found "Wrapping and Wearing the Great
      Kilt" at
      http://www.tartanweb.com/greatkilt/breacan03.htm. This particular
      method of forming the upper may be out of time period, but it is cool
      comfortable and looks attractive.
      On the moggen question. I have had some luck when I translated moggen
      as Gaiters, Puttees, Leg Wraps, Strapulas, and Winingas. Examples
      have been found in Spain, Germany, England, Scandinavia, and even
      Egypt and Syria. These date from as early as 7oo's to as late as
      13oo's. No mention is made in Scotland until the 17oo's however. At
      that time they seem to have been part of a military uniform and not
      common among civilians. "Wikipedia" also says that gaiters were a
      part of the clerical clothing of bishops and archdeacons of the
      "Anglican Communion" from the twelfth century through the middle part
      of the twentieth century but, I am unable to confirm this. Ireland
      as far as I can tell has no history of moggens what so ever. At this
      point; I still feel that given the often extremely hot weather in the
      Gulf Coast, that moggens, though not correct in the strictest sense,
      are a reasonable alternative to trews. Going bare legged is also a
      very traditional option, but here-to-for I have always been trying to
      put forth a more modest appearance.

      Lost And Confused
    • Steve Pote
      the Great Kilts are a cool option. They easily catch the end of period in Wales, Scotland and Ireland (especially if you admit they were more concerned about
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 28, 2006
        the Great Kilts are a cool option. They easily catch the end of period in Wales, Scotland and Ireland (especially if you admit they were more concerned about being camoflaged than color coded by clan). My boys very quickly figured out they could wear them down off the sholders if it was hot or active etc., up as a hood if cold or rainy and over you as a blanket at night. We have 11 weight worsted wool (for suits) that we wear solo or over linen shirts. I wear mine any time I can get away with it.
        Early in period just the long shirt - saffron dyed - no pants, would have been the choice.

        I want to try making Gillie Brogues for shoes, but my leather skills aren't up to it yet.
        (I've seen some very nicely made ones)
        They would be good on hot (Gulf) day - as without socks they are really a sandel. In cold weather without a wool sock they would be too cold (they are literally meant to let the bog water flow out - the modern version, arguably the most ugly men's shoe ever made, have the pock marks that were drain holes on a prior life)

        Callahan <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
        Greetings:

        On the Feileadh-Mhor issue I found "Wrapping and Wearing the Great
        Kilt" at
        http://www.tartanweb.com/greatkilt/breacan03.htm. This particular
        method of forming the upper may be out of time period, but it is cool
        comfortable and looks attractive.
        On the moggen question. I have had some luck when I translated moggen
        as Gaiters, Puttees, Leg Wraps, Strapulas, and Winingas. Examples
        have been found in Spain, Germany, England, Scandinavia, and even
        Egypt and Syria. These date from as early as 7oo's to as late as
        13oo's. No mention is made in Scotland until the 17oo's however. At
        that time they seem to have been part of a military uniform and not
        common among civilians. "Wikipedia" also says that gaiters were a
        part of the clerical clothing of bishops and archdeacons of the
        "Anglican Communion" from the twelfth century through the middle part
        of the twentieth century but, I am unable to confirm this. Ireland
        as far as I can tell has no history of moggens what so ever. At this
        point; I still feel that given the often extremely hot weather in the
        Gulf Coast, that moggens, though not correct in the strictest sense,
        are a reasonable alternative to trews. Going bare legged is also a
        very traditional option, but here-to-for I have always been trying to
        put forth a more modest appearance.

        Lost And Confused






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      • Patrick Callahan
        Here is the site I used How to Wrap the Great Kilt . It has clear photographic instructions. http://www.tartanweb.com/greatkilt/ A great kilt is basically a
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 1, 2006
          Here is the site I used "How to Wrap the Great Kilt".
          It has clear photographic instructions.

          http://www.tartanweb.com/greatkilt/

          A great kilt is basically a 60 inch (salvage to
          salvage) piece of plaid. Some times two narrower
          pieces are sewn together this is more historically
          accurate (25 sewn to 25 for fifty which is common
          width in the time period or 30 sewn to 30 for the full
          60). They are typically between 4 and 6 yard wide,
          either hemmed or hemmed to fringe. Some times they
          are fringed all the way around, which looks great but
          is a lot of work.

          Tartans of the time likely more closely resembled a
          checkered table cloth than the tartans of today.
          Tartans like Northumberland, Rob Roy, Moncrieff, Gow
          Clan and Shepherd's Plaid are the closest to the old
          tartans and are often commercially available. Robin
          Hood and Braveheart are fanciful tartans that maintain
          the old style.

          The earliest mention of the great kilt according to
          Matthew A. C. Newsome (of
          http://albanach.org/quair.html from SCOTTISH ARTICLES)
          comes from the Life of Red Hugh O’Donnell, written in
          Irish Gaelic in 1594. He described the great kilt as
          an outer garment worn over a tunic called a leine.
          Numerous sources and patterns exist for making a 16th
          century leine. Commonly called a saffron shirt, though
          they were in fact full length tunic, leine are often
          referred to a pleated or having pleated skirts though
          this is hardly true of every such garment.

          Here are some possible links for the shirt, but there
          are many others.

          1.) http://www.garbtheworld.com/items/g0003.shtml

          2.)
          http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/patterns.html

          Sincerely

          Lost and Confused



          (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
          opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
        • Patrick Callahan
          Hello: On a totally different note: Could anyone help me in finding out what plaid and tartan patterns might be similar to those that were actually produced
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 5, 2006
            Hello:

            On a totally different note: Could anyone help me in
            finding out what plaid and tartan patterns might be
            similar to those that were actually produced in our
            time period? I have read that modern tartan and
            fashion plaids (Aka. 'walmart' plaids) are a quit
            different from their ancestral predecessors, but I am
            still uncertain as to what ‘a truly ancient plaid’
            should look like. Colors, Designs, Etc. would be most
            helpful. I look forward to what you can come up with.

            Patrick
          • Glenda Aldrup
            Go to a wbsite called kiltmart.com. You can see some examples and order a pretty decent kilt there too. Caiomhe mka Renee Aldrup Patrick Callahan
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 6, 2006
              Go to a wbsite called kiltmart.com. You can see some examples and order a pretty decent kilt there too.
              Caiomhe
              mka Renee Aldrup

              Patrick Callahan <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
              Hello:

              On a totally different note: Could anyone help me in
              finding out what plaid and tartan patterns might be
              similar to those that were actually produced in our
              time period? I have read that modern tartan and
              fashion plaids (Aka. 'walmart' plaids) are a quit
              different from their ancestral predecessors, but I am
              still uncertain as to what ‘a truly ancient plaid’
              should look like. Colors, Designs, Etc. would be most
              helpful. I look forward to what you can come up with.

              Patrick






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