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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Using the fabric you already have...

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  • peachyfaun
    ... wrote: what makes gingham different from other checked fabrics Maybe that is where I am going wrong? I consider gingham to be any pattern that is
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 4, 2006
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      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Susan B. Farmer" <sfarmer@...>
      wrote:
      what makes gingham different from other checked fabrics

      Maybe that is where I am going wrong? I consider gingham to be any
      pattern that is alternating stirpes of 2 colors, going both
      directions, there by forming checks. That is what I always called
      it, anyway, if it's not, could someone let me know?

      For example like this:

      LDLDLDLDLDL
      WLWLWLWLWLW
      LDLDLDLDLDL
      WLWLWLWLWLW

      L=Light
      D=Dark
      W=White
      when the light intercects, it makes a darker color,
    • Sara L Uckelman
      ... Again according to Wikipedia, it wasn t until the mid-18th century that gingham was produced in checked and plaid patterns. -Aryanhwy -- vita sine literis
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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        Quoth "Susan B. Farmer":
        > >> I'd like to use the things I bought before SCA, does anyone know how
        > >> old Cordouroy is, How about Gingham?
        > >
        > > I dunno about Corduroy, but you'll probably want to avoid gingham;
        > > according to the Wikipedia, gingham was first important from
        > > Indonesia by the Dutch in the 17th century, when it was striped in
        > > pattern.
        >
        > But what makes gingham different from other checked fabrics that we do
        > see in period artworks?

        Again according to Wikipedia, it wasn't until the mid-18th century
        that gingham was produced in checked and plaid patterns.

        -Aryanhwy




        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
      • Susan Farmer
        ... I suspect that we re dealing with elevators and lifts here. In the states, Gingham is a very specific fabric -- it s a monochrome checked fabric produced
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:
          >
          > Quoth "Susan B. Farmer":
          > >
          > > But what makes gingham different from other checked fabrics that we do
          > > see in period artworks?
          >
          > Again according to Wikipedia, it wasn't until the mid-18th century
          > that gingham was produced in checked and plaid patterns.
          >
          > -Aryanhwy

          I suspect that we're dealing with "elevators and lifts" here.

          In the states, Gingham is a very specific fabric -- it's a monochrome
          checked fabric produced by alternating bands of color and white in
          both the warp and weft direction. Where the color crosses the white,
          you get a paler version of the color.

          CPCPCPCPCP
          PWPWPWPWPW
          CPCPCPCPCP
          PWPWPWPWPW

          http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=G03Q

          for a color picture. it's typically lightweight cotton, poly/cotton
          or maybe all polyester.

          IMHO, if you've got the fabric and you want to use it, go ahead --
          after you make sure it's not polyester (you'll bake in it). It
          depends on your personal authenticity meter!

          jerusha
        • Heather Noon
          I would use what you have, or offer your fabric around your local group. In my local group we have several ladies that sew for their families that would be
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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            I would use what you have, or offer your fabric around your local group. In my local group we have several ladies that sew for their families that would be willing to trade "mundane" fabric for more "period" fabric.

            Or just use the comment that the period nazi in my group suggested :) "Thank you for your interest, if you would care to replace this dress for me I would be very glad to wear a more period dress." And she is the one helping me with my stuff now :) *she's cool, just a research bug*

            I've been to several events now and NEVER gotten asked about my garb unless it was a compliment or a hint about something for the weather. For example, if you hem that skirt shorter it will breathe better.

            Heather
            from the Shire of Isenfir in the Kingdom of Atlantia
            who meant to write a note, not a letter :)

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Susan Farmer
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 11:44 AM
            Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: [SCA Newcomers] Using the fabric you already have...


            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:
            >
            > Quoth "Susan B. Farmer":
            > >
            > > But what makes gingham different from other checked fabrics that we do
            > > see in period artworks?
            >
            > Again according to Wikipedia, it wasn't until the mid-18th century
            > that gingham was produced in checked and plaid patterns.
            >
            > -Aryanhwy

            I suspect that we're dealing with "elevators and lifts" here.

            In the states, Gingham is a very specific fabric -- it's a monochrome
            checked fabric produced by alternating bands of color and white in
            both the warp and weft direction. Where the color crosses the white,
            you get a paler version of the color.

            CPCPCPCPCP
            PWPWPWPWPW
            CPCPCPCPCP
            PWPWPWPWPW

            http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=G03Q

            for a color picture. it's typically lightweight cotton, poly/cotton
            or maybe all polyester.

            IMHO, if you've got the fabric and you want to use it, go ahead --
            after you make sure it's not polyester (you'll bake in it). It
            depends on your personal authenticity meter!

            jerusha





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
            ... Sara L Uckelman ... Be very careful about using the etymology of modern terms to establish a timeline for fabric types. What we now call gingham (at
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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              Quoth "peachyfaun":
              > I'd like to use the things I bought before SCA, does anyone know how
              > old Cordouroy is, How about Gingham?

              Sara L Uckelman
              > . . .you'll probably want to avoid gingham; according to the
              > Wikipedia, gingham was first important from Indonesia by the Dutch in
              > the 17th century, when it was striped in pattern.

              Be very careful about using the etymology of modern terms to establish
              a timeline for fabric types. What we now call "gingham" (at least in
              the States) is a simple three-color plaid, made of what we now call
              cotton. In the 17th century, the Dutch imported from Indonesia a
              striped fabric they called "gingham", which was then something new.
              Two (potentially) interesting facts about the history of the word
              "gingham", but not much else.

              "How old is gingham?" is also not the question you should be asking if
              you're interested in authenticity. Fabrics, like other things, come
              and go in fashion. Learning that something existed 3,000 years ago
              won't help you determine whether it was worn 1,000 years ago. To make
              a realistic outfit, you need to pair your pattern with fabric from the
              same place and time.

              There are three factors to consider in establishing whether a given
              fabric is plausible for a given period: fiber, weave, and color (the
              last including patterning).

              Some cotton was available in some parts of Europe late in our
              millennium <http://des.kyhm.com/cotton>,
              <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/articles/cotton.html>, so if you choose
              the right late-period setting, you might be able to justify a dress
              made of it.

              Modern gingham is usually plain weave (no woven-in texture patterns),
              so I doubt there's a problem there.

              You didn't mention what color your fabric is. Which were readily
              available varied from place to place over time. The specific pattern
              used in modern gingham
              <http://www.housefabric.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=18930> had
              almost certainly been invented by the beginning of the SCA millenium; a
              scrap of fabric in a similar color pattern (but in a different weave)
              was found in a 3rd- or 4th-century coin hoard in Scotland
              <http://www.falkirklocalhistorysociety.co.uk/home/index.php?id=131>
              <http://www.keithcommunity.co.uk/site/museum.htm#Falkirk>. Whether it
              was used in women's clothing at the same time and in the same places
              that cotton was is a matter you'd need to research by looking at art
              and/or photos of existing clothing from the time.

              What period did you want to dress to? Maybe someone can point you to
              some resources tailored to your needs (if you'll forgive the pun).


              Coblaith Mhuimhneach
              Barony of Bryn Gwlad
              Kingdom of Ansteorra
              <mailto:Coblaith@...>
            • Maria
              I m going to put my two cents in here. I personally have a dress made with a gingham pattern. People tell me the fabric isn t period and I ask them if they
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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                I'm going to put my two cents in here. I personally have a dress made with a gingham pattern. People tell me the fabric isn't period and I ask them if they wove the fabric that they are wearing themselves. My point here is ... IT'S A GAME!!! If you want to use gingham, use it. I don't see a problem with it. Now if you were about to be Crowned King or Queen, then I might say don't use it. If you're really concerned about authenticity and the fashion police, don't use the fabric. But I wouldn't worry about it. To be honest, if anyone says something to you, I'd tell them that it was the best you could do, you are a newcomer, and if they want to correct the problems with your SCA wardrobe, you'll make yourself available at the first possible time for a fitting - would they like to come to your house or should you go to them.

                There's always a nice way to say leave me alone about my garb. That's one of the best I've found.

                In Service to the Dream,
                Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici, SSG
                Maria Buchanan
                Official Worrier of House Starfire
                Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
                Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
                In the Stellar Kingdom of Ansteorra
                281-433-0347

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:09 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Using the fabric you already have...


                Quoth "peachyfaun":
                > I'd like to use the things I bought before SCA, does anyone know how
                > old Cordouroy is, How about Gingham?

                Sara L Uckelman
                > . . .you'll probably want to avoid gingham; according to the
                > Wikipedia, gingham was first important from Indonesia by the Dutch in
                > the 17th century, when it was striped in pattern.

                Be very careful about using the etymology of modern terms to establish
                a timeline for fabric types. What we now call "gingham" (at least in
                the States) is a simple three-color plaid, made of what we now call
                cotton. In the 17th century, the Dutch imported from Indonesia a
                striped fabric they called "gingham", which was then something new.
                Two (potentially) interesting facts about the history of the word
                "gingham", but not much else.

                "How old is gingham?" is also not the question you should be asking if
                you're interested in authenticity. Fabrics, like other things, come
                and go in fashion. Learning that something existed 3,000 years ago
                won't help you determine whether it was worn 1,000 years ago. To make
                a realistic outfit, you need to pair your pattern with fabric from the
                same place and time.

                There are three factors to consider in establishing whether a given
                fabric is plausible for a given period: fiber, weave, and color (the
                last including patterning).

                Some cotton was available in some parts of Europe late in our
                millennium <http://des.kyhm.com/cotton>,
                <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/articles/cotton.html>, so if you choose
                the right late-period setting, you might be able to justify a dress
                made of it.

                Modern gingham is usually plain weave (no woven-in texture patterns),
                so I doubt there's a problem there.

                You didn't mention what color your fabric is. Which were readily
                available varied from place to place over time. The specific pattern
                used in modern gingham
                <http://www.housefabric.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=18930> had
                almost certainly been invented by the beginning of the SCA millenium; a
                scrap of fabric in a similar color pattern (but in a different weave)
                was found in a 3rd- or 4th-century coin hoard in Scotland
                <http://www.falkirklocalhistorysociety.co.uk/home/index.php?id=131>
                <http://www.keithcommunity.co.uk/site/museum.htm#Falkirk>. Whether it
                was used in women's clothing at the same time and in the same places
                that cotton was is a matter you'd need to research by looking at art
                and/or photos of existing clothing from the time.

                What period did you want to dress to? Maybe someone can point you to
                some resources tailored to your needs (if you'll forgive the pun).

                Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                Kingdom of Ansteorra
                <mailto:Coblaith@...>






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joan Mielke
                I second Coblaith. Use your stash. Get creative. If you don t like the ribbed side of the corduroy, use the other side out! Gingham is perfect for making
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 6, 2006
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                  I second Coblaith. Use your stash. Get creative. If you don't
                  like the ribbed side of the corduroy, use the other side out!
                  Gingham is perfect for making trial garments for fitting. It is
                  also perfect for lining fabric, and most medieval garments were
                  lined--and they look much better that way too. Or you could try
                  dying the gingham (provided it is 100% cotton).

                  I read somewhere (probably this list) that this is the Society for
                  Creative Anachronism,
                  not the Society for Compulsory Authenticity. Today at fighter
                  practice/court our hospitaller was wearing polyester satin and I
                  discussed with our new baroness how well the weatherstripping inside
                  her new coronet worked for making the crown comfortable... Her
                  favorite part of her new coronet was that her veil doesn't fly off
                  anymore. Personally, I have linen and wool in my stash (both
                  purchased for $2/yard on JoAnne clearance)--- But I wouldn't dream
                  of telling someone else that they have to go out and spend $14/yard
                  for eight yards of linen to make an authentic gown. This is not a
                  Laurel competition.

                  This is one of my favorite SCA clothing links.
                  http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/
                  From that web page take a look at the old pictures of early garb the
                  Baronness made. Obviously it takes time to get to the point of
                  making royalty-ready garb. (A long time.)

                  Remember, this is something that we are doing for FUN!

                  Jehanne
                  (found a name! yea!)
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