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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Heraldry questions

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  • Sara L Uckelman
    ... Celtic is the name of a group of languages, not a specific language (just as Romance is the name of the family of languages which contains Italian,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 7, 2006
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      Quoth "maevedechesne":
      > >The name is Maeve de Chesne
      > > -- It is 13th century celtic. From wales and Scotland

      'Celtic' is the name of a group of languages, not a specific
      language (just as 'Romance' is the name of the family of
      languages which contains Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian,
      etc.); both Gaelic and Welsh are Celtic languages, but
      Gaelic and Welsh are definitely distinct languages and names
      and naming practices which are appropriate for one language
      aren't in general appropriate for the other. (In particular,
      if you're interested in registering your name, you'd want to
      pick something which is either wholly Welsh or wholly Gaelic,
      as names which combine elements from both langauges are not
      registerable.)

      So, wether you want to live in Wales or in Scotland will
      make a difference as to what types of names are appropriate.

      <Maeve> is a modern English form of the Gaelic name <Meadhbh>;
      so far, I know of no evidence that the spelling <Maeve> is
      found before modern times. <Meadhbh> is a fine choice for
      the 13th century; this name is moderately common in Irish
      Gaelic. [1,2] However, it doesn't appear that this name was
      used at all in Scottish Gaelic. [3]

      <de Chesne> is actually neither Gaelic nor Welsh - it's
      English (originally from the Old French <chesnai> 'oak-grove').
      There are various examples of this surname in the 12th and
      13th century - <de Chaisnei>, <de Cheisnei> 1140, 1166, <de
      Cheinnei> a. 1183, <de Chennei> 12th C, <de Chesnei> 1205, <del
      Chennay> 1212, <de Cheny> 1235, <del Chesne> 1236, <de Cheyny>
      1242, <de Cheyne> 1296>. [4] So, if you're looking for an
      English persona, then this is a great choice for a 13th century
      byname, but it's not a good choice for a Welsh or Scottish
      Gaelic woman.

      So, there's a lot of possibilities open to you - if you're
      interested in a Scottish Gaelic name, then you might want to
      check out these articles:

      "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names"
      http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/

      "A Simple Guide to Constructing 12th Century Scottish Gaelic Names"
      http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/simplescotgaelicnames12.shtml

      "Scottish Gaelic Given Names"
      http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/

      If Welsh is your interest, then I can do no better than recommend
      this article:

      "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names"
      http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html

      And then lastly if you'd rather have an English name, to go with
      <de Chesne>, here are some good places to look for a 13th century
      English given name:

      "Feminine Given Names in _A Dictionary of English Surnames_"
      http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/

      "Names from 13th Century Northumberland"
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/northumberland.html

      "Given Names from Early 13th Century England"
      http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/eng13/

      Hope this helps! If you've got any other questions, please let
      me know!

      -Aryanhwy


      --
      Notes:

      [1] O'Corrain & Maguire, _Irish Names_, s.n. Medb

      [2] "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Feminine Names"
      (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/)

      [3] Academy of S. Gabriel Report #2196
      (http://www.s-gabriel.org/2196).

      [4] Reaney & Wilson's _Dictionary of English Surnames_ s.n.
      Cheyney


      --
      vita sine literis mors est
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
    • Sara L Uckelman
      ... In this case, since the cat and the stars are wholly black, they are not considered neutral, and so they couldn t be placed on a red field. You d want to
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 7, 2006
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        Quoth "Maria":
        > I have a question. If you have a black cat on a red field with black stars o
        > n it is that considered a neutral also or does it have to be white stars?

        In this case, since the cat and the stars are wholly black, they are
        not considered neutral, and so they couldn't be placed on a red field.
        You'd want to make both the cats and the stars yellow or white (or
        change the background to yellow or white).

        -Aryanhwy



        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
      • Maria
        Thanks. M ... From: Sara L Uckelman To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Heraldry questions
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 7, 2006
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          Thanks.

          M
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sara L Uckelman
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:01 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Heraldry questions


          Quoth "Maria":
          > I have a question. If you have a black cat on a red field with black stars o
          > n it is that considered a neutral also or does it have to be white stars?

          In this case, since the cat and the stars are wholly black, they are
          not considered neutral, and so they couldn't be placed on a red field.
          You'd want to make both the cats and the stars yellow or white (or
          change the background to yellow or white).

          -Aryanhwy

          --
          vita sine literis mors est
          http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/





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        • Joshua Poling-Goldenne
          ... Tuam, Where in Atlantia are you located? If you can t find a herald locally, there are a few other options I can think of... 1) Contact the Kingdom Herald
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 10, 2006
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            On 7/5/06, tuamkoh <tuamkoh@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am newly returned to the sca after a few years absence. I am
            > working on registering my name and device with the College of Heralds,
            > but can't seem to get in touch with a local herald. Are there any
            > Antlantian Heralds on this list willing to consult with me?
            >
            > Tuam
            >








            Tuam,

            Where in Atlantia are you located? If you can't find a herald locally, there
            are a few other options I can think of...

            1) Contact the Kingdom Herald and ask him for help finding someone
            Lord EĆ³gan mac Ailpein
            mka Gene Bonar
            5105 Little Beaverdam Court, Holly Springs, NC, 27540
            herald@...

            2) Apparently the Atlantian heralds have an email list, so you could
            possibly subscribe to that and ask there.
            To subscribe to the Atlantian Heralds E-mail List, send a blank email to:
            AtlantianHeralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

            3) Join the Merry Rose (Atlantia's official kingdom-wide mailing list) and
            ask for help finding a local herald there.

            4) Find the Herald's consult table at an event (they are at most of them)

            Gaspar Marti


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