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HELP! Need to find Irish Overdress pictures with dates used

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  • mandolin33
    I have been looking for pictures, photos, drawings, whatever it takes to see clearly an irish overdress with the dates listed of the years used. I am
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 11, 2006
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      I have been looking for pictures, photos, drawings, whatever it takes
      to see clearly an irish overdress with the dates listed of the years
      used. I am basically a new kid on the block and need help finding this
      to verify whether or not a dress a friend is making me will fit in the
      time periods for SCA. It looks like a vest with a grommet and tied
      closure for the upper part, while the lower part is a split skirt.
      Apparently it is worn over a chemise or skirt and chemise combo. Any
      ideas on what years that was used and where I can get illustrations to
      verify it for the seneschal?

      Thank you for all your help. I really need it.

      Sincerely,
      Diane
      AKA mandolin33
    • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      ... The outer garments of the women in Lucas de Heere s Townswomen come closest of the period examples I ve seen to the dress you re describing (though how
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 11, 2006
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        Diane wrote:
        > I have been looking for pictures [of] an irish overdress with the
        > dates listed of the years used. [I need] to verify whether or not a
        > dress a friend is making me will fit in the time periods for SCA. It
        > looks like a vest with a grommet and tied closure for the upper part,
        > while the lower part is a split skirt. Apparently it is worn over a
        > chemise or skirt and chemise combo.

        The outer garments of the women in Lucas de Heere's "Townswomen" come
        closest of the period examples I've seen to the dress you're describing
        (though how similar they are to what your friend is making, I can't
        say).

        Mairéad Dunlevy includes the illustration in her article, "Costume in
        County Clare"
        <http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/costume.htm>, where
        she dates it to around 1575 but states it is based on
        early-16th-century sources. The same assertion is made by her in
        _Dress in Ireland: A History_, where the drawing appears as the third
        color plate. If you need a source other than a website, that would be
        an excellent choice. (The book is highly respected, and readily
        available at U.S. libraries.)



        Coblaith Mhuimhneach
        Barony of Bryn Gwlad
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        <Coblaith@...>
      • rwfranz
        Another online source of pictures (Kass McGann s site) is http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/wear.html Roger
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 11, 2006
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          Another online source of pictures (Kass McGann's site) is
          http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/wear.html

          Roger


          Coblaith Mhuimhneach wrote:

          >
          > <http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/costume.htm>, where
          > she dates it to around 1575 but states it is based on
          > early-16th-century sources. The same assertion is made by her in
          > _Dress in Ireland: A History_, where the drawing appears as the third
        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/11/2006 7:17:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 12, 2006
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            In a message dated 4/11/2006 7:17:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

            <<I have been looking for pictures, photos, drawings, whatever it takes
            to see clearly an irish overdress with the dates listed of the years
            used. I am basically a new kid on the block and need help finding this
            to verify whether or not a dress a friend is making me will fit in the
            time periods for SCA. It looks like a vest with a grommet and tied
            closure for the upper part, while the lower part is a split skirt.
            Apparently it is worn over a chemise or skirt and chemise combo. Any
            ideas on what years that was used and where I can get illustrations to
            verify it for the seneschal?>>

            First of all, there is no need to prove to the seneschal that your garb is
            accurate down to a certain time period. While the SCA requests that everyone
            attending an event wear "an attempt at clothing from before 1600", there are
            no garb police who are going to look at your documentation before allowing
            you to wear the clothing. Also notice the wording "an attempt". That's in the
            official rules for the SCA in exactly those terms. Which means as long as
            it looks reasonably close, it's fine.

            Secondly, you are going to have trouble documenting that particular style,
            because it isn't really all that close to any one historical style. It
            combines a couple of different things filtered through the Renaissance festival
            circuit; it's been pretty well proven, for example, that the "Irish chemise"
            with the sleeve gathered along the length and trim running down the gather is a
            Ren Faire invention. That said, that style is extremely popular in the SCA,
            both for newcomers and amongst some of the older members as well. I used to
            wear it myself. It looks reasonable for renaissance clothing, is relatively
            easy to make, and is comfortable to wear.

            If you would like to get a good idea of what real historical Irish and
            Scottish clothing looked like, there are two excellent websites you can check out.
            One is _www.medievalscotland.org_ (http://www.medievalscotland.org) ; the
            other is _www.reconstructinghistory.org_
            (http://www.reconstructinghistory.org) . The owner of the second has actually studied, hands-on, surviving Irish
            medieval clothing and reconstructed possible patterns for it; she even sells
            some patterns.


            Brangwayna Morgan
            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            Lancaster, PA


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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