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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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      In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
      shire's area to be an officer of it):

      <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
      (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle.>>

      Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
      everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of
      experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a number of
      situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
      one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who lived in
      one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of situations
      where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
      official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they didn't
      physically live in.

      The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself officially
      declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by the
      BOD to achieve.

      On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in Silver
      Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties, and
      only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code list
      arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is actually
      part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak Rose.
      There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
      actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to the East.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kristine Elliott
      ... How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom. East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that sort of
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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        On 4/9/06, bronwynmgn@... <bronwynmgn@...> wrote:
        >
        > In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had
        > to live in a
        > shire's area to be an officer of it):
        >
        >
        > <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
        >
        > (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the
        > Middle.>>
        >
        > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
        > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years
        > of
        > experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a
        > number of
        > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
        >
        > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who
        > lived in
        > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of
        > situations
        > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
        >
        > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they
        > didn't
        > physically live in.
        >
        > The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself
        > officially
        > declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by
        > the
        > BOD to achieve.
        >
        > On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in
        > Silver
        > Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties,
        > and
        > only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code
        > list
        > arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is
        > actually
        > part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak
        > Rose.
        > There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
        > actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to
        > the East.
        >
        >
        >
        > Brangwayna Morgan
        > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        > Lancaster, PA
        >
        >

        How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom.
        East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that
        sort of thing. In fact when Michel Wolffauer was explaining some of the EK
        territorial rules to me a few years ago, I laughed hysterically. I thought
        they were a joke! Nope, just one of this IKA (intrakingdom anthropology)
        things that catches you when you least expect them.

        Brangwayna is correct, as far as East Kingdom goes.

        Scolastica


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
        ... The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to kingdom. Remember that some offices are actually not officially warranted by
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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          On Sunday 09 April 2006 10:23, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
          > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to  
          > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of  
          > experience in the SCA.  And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a  number of
          > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get  another
          > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who  lived in
          > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of  situations
          > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as  their
          > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they  didn't
          > physically live in.

          The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to
          kingdom.

          Remember that some "offices" are actually not officially warranted by the
          SCA, Inc. For example, here in the Middle Kingdom, a lot of shires and
          baronies have an "officer" who keeps track of the group's demo gear and
          other equipment. This isn't (at least here in the MK) an actual warranted
          office, just an informal volunteer job that in effect is a deputy to the
          Seneschal. That being the case, there's no residency requirement to be
          Quartermaster because as far as the Kingdom is concerned it's not a real
          office.

          In the Middle Kingdom, the general policy for residency is that an officer
          has to live within the lands of the group where they wish to serve, unless
          they get a waiver from their Kingdom superior. But I think this varies from
          kingdom to kingdom -- some may be stricter than we are, some less strict.

          I took a look at the SCA Governing Documents (November 2005 edition), and I
          didn't see anything specifically about residency there, other than that any
          warranted officer must live at a residence that receives their Kingdom
          newsletter. I think the stricter requirements must be kingdom-specific.
          The Gov Docs do a lot of delegating of authority to the kingdoms for
          establishment of local offices.

          Kind regards,

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
          ... These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words! Households are great -- I m very happy to be a member of one myself. But I ve seen too many cases
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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            On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:30, Megan & Dave wrote:
            > I don't recommend deciding on a household for at least a year.  There
            > is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before
            > you commit.  [...] Too many people commit, and then later find out that
            > this isn't a group you want to belong to, and frequently there are hurt
            > feelings when it is brought out.

            These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words!

            Households are great -- I'm very happy to be a member of one myself.
            But I've seen too many cases where households eager to grow their numbers
            met up with new people eager to feel a part of a circle of friends -- with
            disastrous results.

            At an event last summer, our household shared camping space with another
            household that was one of these eager-grabbers. There were some newbies
            camping with this other household, and from watching the interaction, I
            formulated the following:

            Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household

            You should run, not walk, away from any household where....

            * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
            that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
            tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"

            * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
            explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
            has only about 25 members.

            * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
            a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
            a cold beer.

            Our folks were having a great amount of private amusement about all this
            (and I swear, the above really happened -- they even had the whiteboard with
            them to explain the org chart!). Mind you, these were really NICE
            people, but we just couldn't imagine why they needed so much bureaucracy
            for such a small group where presumably everyone in the group is friends!

            We've got about twenty members in our household [*], we don't actively recruit,
            and our fifteen year history we've never had any serious interpersonal conflict.
            We don't *need* officers or lots of rules because we only invite people
            into the household with whom we already have close friendships. Decisions
            are by concensus, and new members have to be approved unanimously. The upside
            is that we have a very relaxed and friendly culture -- the downside is that
            we don't have the number to make an effective fighting unit or guild or to
            do really large service projects.

            I'm not saying our way is the only way -- I'm just pointing out that there
            are a zillion different ways for households to work. If you're new to the
            SCA, you owe it to yourself to stick around for a while and get to know
            people from a variety of different kinds of household before you commit
            to one. Look for a household whose lifestyle meshes well with your own
            attitudes and values. Some households are just groups of friends, others
            are more hierarchical, like a medieval family household. Some are local
            to one area, others are kingdom-wide or even multi-kingdom.

            That process of learning about the households in your area happens in
            parallel with learning about the various activities and customs of the SCA,
            and with learning about yourself and what you want from this hobby. All
            of these things take time -- hence the wisdom of Gwenhyfar's post which I
            quoted above. :-)

            And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
            couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we really
            had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA experience.
            Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you don't have to
            do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one. Just pick the
            people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't taken, and
            declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to it.

            Justin

            [*] Erevnite Asteron, http://erevnite.4th.com/

            --
            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
            Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
            keys fesswise reversed sable.

            Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
          • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
            Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming into the night* Example B: Quoth Giudo Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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              Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming
              into the night*

              Example B: Quoth Giudo "Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
              English? No, no...English. As in the language that the REST of us
              speak."

              Example C: Ummmm...no. I don't do beer. Come back to my encampment and
              we'll enjoy some Gooseberry wine that an apprentice sister of mine
              made.


              *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
              Sadly, I've seen all of these in action. Funny enough, it was a group
              like Example C that wanted to put me on their "watch list" for
              consideration for joining their Household. I looked at them and just
              shook my head, said "No thank you" and went on my merry way.


              Now, at last count, I'm a member of...*counts on his fingers
              again*...5 (is that right?)...yup...5 different Households of various
              sizes and natures:

              * Clan Blue Feather: Society-wide clan for the LGBT community, their
              allies, and those interested in studying Medieval sexuality. [[Very
              LITTLE beaurocratic stuff, at least amongst the Calontir contingent.]]

              * House ORU (aka "Orphans 'R' Us"): A local Household of about 10-12
              individuals who all are close friends; almost like a 2nd family at the
              local level. [[My roommate is my House sister, and we seriously act
              like siblings 99.99% of the time. We've been mistaken as such many
              times in real life...*LOL*]]

              * House Leatherwolf: A personal Household founded by HE Master Modar
              Neznanich, his lady wife, and her close friend. This Household follows
              the tenant of "Ohana"...and people have been invited in just for being
              themselves, where they've done something that has struck the founders
              as being awe-inspiring, really cool, or has affected them in a
              positive way.

              * Compagnia dell'Arcangelo Gabriele: My personal Household, based
              loosely on the Florentine confraternities...where those I have invited
              into the Household exemplify the idea of charity. So far there's a
              long-time college friend, and a friend I met through LiveJournal (of
              all places)...and myself. I've opened it up that they are free to
              invite their significant others and anyone they have a formal
              relationship with (ie: Peer/associate, student/teacher, other heads of
              House, etc). And since the three of us cover 2 Kingdoms, we are free
              to add others to the group if we think they would benefit from such an
              association...just let the others know who you're looking at, why they
              are so cool, and invite them in. [[I'm very amorphous, but I'm really
              sending the hint out that we are not "The Family" or "The Borg".]]

              * And then there's the small Household with my Laurel and my fellow
              apprentice brothers and sisters. This goes into another realm of
              relationships that most newcomers should NOT be bogged down with. If
              you've only been playing for a year, and you've got a Peer coming up
              to you asking you to be their squire, their apprentice, or their
              protege...RUN!!! 9 times out of 10 they are either trying to warp you
              to THEIR view of the SCA, or their off collecting "trophy" associates.
              [[BAD blood runs in both of these scenarios.]]

              Hrm...I'll hold off on that entire rant for later. [[I could write an
              entire essay on my search and inquiry into the realm of Peer/associate
              relationships.]]

              Giudo di Niccolo



              On 4/10/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
              > Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household
              >
              > You should run, not walk, away from any household where....
              >
              > * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
              > that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
              > tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"
              >
              > * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
              > explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
              > has only about 25 members.
              >
              > * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
              > a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
              > a cold beer.
            • Milica of Varna
              I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this wish to
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 11, 2006
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                I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping
                purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this
                wish to camp. There are many of these households that exist only for the
                wars. Not a bad way to go either.

                Milica

                On Monday 10 April 2006 23:27, Iustinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                > And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
                > couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we
                > really had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA
                > experience. Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you
                > don't have to do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one.
                > Just pick the people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't
                > taken, and declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to
                > it.

                --
                **************************************************************************************

                THL Milica of Varna
                Chronicler, Barony of Brendoken

                **************************************************************************************
              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                ... No, M Lord, with respect I must correct you. These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON. Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN} Justin
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                  On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                  > *LOL*  Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.

                  No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.

                  These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.

                  Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                  ... OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS! Giudo
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                    On 4/12/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                    > On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                    > > *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
                    >
                    > No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.
                    >
                    > These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.
                    >
                    > Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}
                    >
                    > Justin


                    OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS!

                    Giudo
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