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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello

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  • Megan & Dave
    Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle. Gwenhyfar
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2006
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      Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle.

      Gwenhyfar
      <
      <
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello


      In a message dated 4/6/2006 3:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:


      <Snip>
      but you can only be an officer in the one whose
      borders you officially live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in charge
      of each group will know which zip codes belong to them).
      <SNIP>
      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Megan & Dave
      I don t recommend deciding on a household for at least a year. There is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before you commit. Our
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8, 2006
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        I don't recommend deciding on a household for at least a year. There is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before you commit. Our house, actually has it as one of our rules. You can come play with us, and check out what we are about, but you can't be put on our watch list until you've been in the SCA for a year, so by the time you make member, you are nearly 2 years in the SCA and have a foundation to work from. Too many people commit, and then later find out that this isn't a group you want to belong to, and frequently there are hurt feelings when it is brought out.

        Gwenhyfar
        <
        <
        <
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: pumpkinhead
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:07 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello


        HI! I'm a newbie also, but found that the Kingdom of Altantia website is very accomindating. they have a search by zip could for local groups. Since you are lucky enough to be smack in the middle of two groups, you can attend both and see which one you like the vibe of better. also look at how far you would have to travel to attend. And as I have been warned, don't commit to being within a household till you know just what the household will expect from you and what there aim, goal is. I've seen already wit nessed a household leader who is very very driven (to the extreme, almost in an unhealthy way) in regards to her household actually kick someone out, cause they were going through a period of real life turmoil and weren't commiting as much as her. As soon as I saw that I decided to try to become buddies with that person, and avoid households till I found one that would be a benefit to belong to. I thought joining a group was about inclusion and working together not being
        an outcast (when someone is going through a hard time that is when they need the people they have known for years the most)
        http://www.atlantia.sca.org/

        I've already noticed in the short time I've been around my local group that they have a lot of diverse interests in general but have a major focus that is not within my interests. So I will plod away doing research to create my own persona, share my skills (mainly within the fiber world, embroidery, weaving, spinning, etc) and learn from them the various other options with in SCA & the Arts & Sciences. Have to admit it was the Kingdoms A & S that got my attention and made 2 of my friends drag me to the event.

        I'm also lucky enough to have another group close enough to check out. I hope to attend thier Birthday celebration coming up.
        ellenrw1 <AuntyD@...> wrote:
        Well hello all,
        Yes this is the obligatory *wave* Hello-I'm-New-Here.

        My name is Ellen, I live in Delaware, and although I'm not a rough
        newbie (many of my friends are in the group, and I was involved a long
        while ago) I'm new again.

        Could anyone tell me how I should go about this all again? I live
        right on the border between Cair Adement (sp) and the Philly SCA
        group. So I am not sure whome to contact.

        Many thanks, Ellen

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Roland
        ... but you can only be an officer in the one whose borders you officially live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in charge of each group will
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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          > There is no reason why you can't be involved with both groups,
          but >you can only be an officer in the one whose borders you
          officially >live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in
          charge of each >group will know which zip codes belong to them).


          I live in the Province of Tree Girt Sea, I am the Chatelaine for the
          Shire of the Grey Gargoyles. Just think of me as a mideival
          commuter. Our Knights Marshal and our Rapier Marshal both do the
          same thing.

          Also for you newcomers I always recommend doing a quick once over of
          the Society's rules and your kingdom's laws. It is good to know the
          rules for the organization you are in. Don't become a rules lawyer
          it is a bad thing to be. But you will be armed with knowledge and
          that is good.

          Society Rules aka Corpora

          http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf
        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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            In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
            shire's area to be an officer of it):

            <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
            (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle.>>

            Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
            everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of
            experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a number of
            situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
            one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who lived in
            one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of situations
            where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
            official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they didn't
            physically live in.

            The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself officially
            declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by the
            BOD to achieve.

            On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in Silver
            Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties, and
            only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code list
            arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is actually
            part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak Rose.
            There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
            actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to the East.


            Brangwayna Morgan
            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            Lancaster, PA


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kristine Elliott
            ... How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom. East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that sort of
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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              On 4/9/06, bronwynmgn@... <bronwynmgn@...> wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had
              > to live in a
              > shire's area to be an officer of it):
              >
              >
              > <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
              >
              > (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the
              > Middle.>>
              >
              > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
              > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years
              > of
              > experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a
              > number of
              > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
              >
              > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who
              > lived in
              > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of
              > situations
              > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
              >
              > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they
              > didn't
              > physically live in.
              >
              > The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself
              > officially
              > declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by
              > the
              > BOD to achieve.
              >
              > On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in
              > Silver
              > Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties,
              > and
              > only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code
              > list
              > arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is
              > actually
              > part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak
              > Rose.
              > There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
              > actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to
              > the East.
              >
              >
              >
              > Brangwayna Morgan
              > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
              > Lancaster, PA
              >
              >

              How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom.
              East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that
              sort of thing. In fact when Michel Wolffauer was explaining some of the EK
              territorial rules to me a few years ago, I laughed hysterically. I thought
              they were a joke! Nope, just one of this IKA (intrakingdom anthropology)
              things that catches you when you least expect them.

              Brangwayna is correct, as far as East Kingdom goes.

              Scolastica


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
              ... The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to kingdom. Remember that some offices are actually not officially warranted by
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                On Sunday 09 April 2006 10:23, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to  
                > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of  
                > experience in the SCA.  And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a  number of
                > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get  another
                > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who  lived in
                > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of  situations
                > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as  their
                > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they  didn't
                > physically live in.

                The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to
                kingdom.

                Remember that some "offices" are actually not officially warranted by the
                SCA, Inc. For example, here in the Middle Kingdom, a lot of shires and
                baronies have an "officer" who keeps track of the group's demo gear and
                other equipment. This isn't (at least here in the MK) an actual warranted
                office, just an informal volunteer job that in effect is a deputy to the
                Seneschal. That being the case, there's no residency requirement to be
                Quartermaster because as far as the Kingdom is concerned it's not a real
                office.

                In the Middle Kingdom, the general policy for residency is that an officer
                has to live within the lands of the group where they wish to serve, unless
                they get a waiver from their Kingdom superior. But I think this varies from
                kingdom to kingdom -- some may be stricter than we are, some less strict.

                I took a look at the SCA Governing Documents (November 2005 edition), and I
                didn't see anything specifically about residency there, other than that any
                warranted officer must live at a residence that receives their Kingdom
                newsletter. I think the stricter requirements must be kingdom-specific.
                The Gov Docs do a lot of delegating of authority to the kingdoms for
                establishment of local offices.

                Kind regards,

                Justin

                --
                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                ... These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words! Households are great -- I m very happy to be a member of one myself. But I ve seen too many cases
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                  On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:30, Megan & Dave wrote:
                  > I don't recommend deciding on a household for at least a year.  There
                  > is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before
                  > you commit.  [...] Too many people commit, and then later find out that
                  > this isn't a group you want to belong to, and frequently there are hurt
                  > feelings when it is brought out.

                  These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words!

                  Households are great -- I'm very happy to be a member of one myself.
                  But I've seen too many cases where households eager to grow their numbers
                  met up with new people eager to feel a part of a circle of friends -- with
                  disastrous results.

                  At an event last summer, our household shared camping space with another
                  household that was one of these eager-grabbers. There were some newbies
                  camping with this other household, and from watching the interaction, I
                  formulated the following:

                  Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household

                  You should run, not walk, away from any household where....

                  * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
                  that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
                  tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"

                  * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
                  explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
                  has only about 25 members.

                  * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
                  a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
                  a cold beer.

                  Our folks were having a great amount of private amusement about all this
                  (and I swear, the above really happened -- they even had the whiteboard with
                  them to explain the org chart!). Mind you, these were really NICE
                  people, but we just couldn't imagine why they needed so much bureaucracy
                  for such a small group where presumably everyone in the group is friends!

                  We've got about twenty members in our household [*], we don't actively recruit,
                  and our fifteen year history we've never had any serious interpersonal conflict.
                  We don't *need* officers or lots of rules because we only invite people
                  into the household with whom we already have close friendships. Decisions
                  are by concensus, and new members have to be approved unanimously. The upside
                  is that we have a very relaxed and friendly culture -- the downside is that
                  we don't have the number to make an effective fighting unit or guild or to
                  do really large service projects.

                  I'm not saying our way is the only way -- I'm just pointing out that there
                  are a zillion different ways for households to work. If you're new to the
                  SCA, you owe it to yourself to stick around for a while and get to know
                  people from a variety of different kinds of household before you commit
                  to one. Look for a household whose lifestyle meshes well with your own
                  attitudes and values. Some households are just groups of friends, others
                  are more hierarchical, like a medieval family household. Some are local
                  to one area, others are kingdom-wide or even multi-kingdom.

                  That process of learning about the households in your area happens in
                  parallel with learning about the various activities and customs of the SCA,
                  and with learning about yourself and what you want from this hobby. All
                  of these things take time -- hence the wisdom of Gwenhyfar's post which I
                  quoted above. :-)

                  And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
                  couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we really
                  had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA experience.
                  Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you don't have to
                  do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one. Just pick the
                  people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't taken, and
                  declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to it.

                  Justin

                  [*] Erevnite Asteron, http://erevnite.4th.com/

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                  Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming into the night* Example B: Quoth Giudo Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                    Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming
                    into the night*

                    Example B: Quoth Giudo "Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
                    English? No, no...English. As in the language that the REST of us
                    speak."

                    Example C: Ummmm...no. I don't do beer. Come back to my encampment and
                    we'll enjoy some Gooseberry wine that an apprentice sister of mine
                    made.


                    *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
                    Sadly, I've seen all of these in action. Funny enough, it was a group
                    like Example C that wanted to put me on their "watch list" for
                    consideration for joining their Household. I looked at them and just
                    shook my head, said "No thank you" and went on my merry way.


                    Now, at last count, I'm a member of...*counts on his fingers
                    again*...5 (is that right?)...yup...5 different Households of various
                    sizes and natures:

                    * Clan Blue Feather: Society-wide clan for the LGBT community, their
                    allies, and those interested in studying Medieval sexuality. [[Very
                    LITTLE beaurocratic stuff, at least amongst the Calontir contingent.]]

                    * House ORU (aka "Orphans 'R' Us"): A local Household of about 10-12
                    individuals who all are close friends; almost like a 2nd family at the
                    local level. [[My roommate is my House sister, and we seriously act
                    like siblings 99.99% of the time. We've been mistaken as such many
                    times in real life...*LOL*]]

                    * House Leatherwolf: A personal Household founded by HE Master Modar
                    Neznanich, his lady wife, and her close friend. This Household follows
                    the tenant of "Ohana"...and people have been invited in just for being
                    themselves, where they've done something that has struck the founders
                    as being awe-inspiring, really cool, or has affected them in a
                    positive way.

                    * Compagnia dell'Arcangelo Gabriele: My personal Household, based
                    loosely on the Florentine confraternities...where those I have invited
                    into the Household exemplify the idea of charity. So far there's a
                    long-time college friend, and a friend I met through LiveJournal (of
                    all places)...and myself. I've opened it up that they are free to
                    invite their significant others and anyone they have a formal
                    relationship with (ie: Peer/associate, student/teacher, other heads of
                    House, etc). And since the three of us cover 2 Kingdoms, we are free
                    to add others to the group if we think they would benefit from such an
                    association...just let the others know who you're looking at, why they
                    are so cool, and invite them in. [[I'm very amorphous, but I'm really
                    sending the hint out that we are not "The Family" or "The Borg".]]

                    * And then there's the small Household with my Laurel and my fellow
                    apprentice brothers and sisters. This goes into another realm of
                    relationships that most newcomers should NOT be bogged down with. If
                    you've only been playing for a year, and you've got a Peer coming up
                    to you asking you to be their squire, their apprentice, or their
                    protege...RUN!!! 9 times out of 10 they are either trying to warp you
                    to THEIR view of the SCA, or their off collecting "trophy" associates.
                    [[BAD blood runs in both of these scenarios.]]

                    Hrm...I'll hold off on that entire rant for later. [[I could write an
                    entire essay on my search and inquiry into the realm of Peer/associate
                    relationships.]]

                    Giudo di Niccolo



                    On 4/10/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                    > Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household
                    >
                    > You should run, not walk, away from any household where....
                    >
                    > * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
                    > that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
                    > tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"
                    >
                    > * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
                    > explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
                    > has only about 25 members.
                    >
                    > * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
                    > a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
                    > a cold beer.
                  • Milica of Varna
                    I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this wish to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 11, 2006
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                      I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping
                      purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this
                      wish to camp. There are many of these households that exist only for the
                      wars. Not a bad way to go either.

                      Milica

                      On Monday 10 April 2006 23:27, Iustinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                      > And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
                      > couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we
                      > really had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA
                      > experience. Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you
                      > don't have to do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one.
                      > Just pick the people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't
                      > taken, and declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to
                      > it.

                      --
                      **************************************************************************************

                      THL Milica of Varna
                      Chronicler, Barony of Brendoken

                      **************************************************************************************
                    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      ... No, M Lord, with respect I must correct you. These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON. Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN} Justin
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                        On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                        > *LOL*  Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.

                        No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.

                        These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.

                        Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}

                        Justin

                        --
                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                        keys fesswise reversed sable.

                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                        ... OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS! Giudo
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                          On 4/12/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                          > On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                          > > *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
                          >
                          > No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.
                          >
                          > These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.
                          >
                          > Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}
                          >
                          > Justin


                          OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS!

                          Giudo
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