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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/6/2006 3:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2006
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      In a message dated 4/6/2006 3:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:


      <<Could anyone tell me how I should go about this all again? I live
      right on the border between Cair Adement (sp) and the Philly SCA
      group. So I am not sure whome to contact.>>

      Contact'em both! I'm not kidding. There is no reason why you can't be
      involved with both groups, but you can only be an officer in the one whose
      borders you officially live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in charge
      of each group will know which zip codes belong to them).
      I'm not so far away from you (Shire of Silver Rylle, Lancaster, PA) and we
      have folks from the next door shires of Owlsherste and Blak Rose who hang out
      with us and vice versa.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Megan & Dave
      Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle. Gwenhyfar
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8, 2006
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        Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle.

        Gwenhyfar
        <
        <
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: bronwynmgn@...
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:13 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello


        In a message dated 4/6/2006 3:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:


        <Snip>
        but you can only be an officer in the one whose
        borders you officially live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in charge
        of each group will know which zip codes belong to them).
        <SNIP>
        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Megan & Dave
        I don t recommend deciding on a household for at least a year. There is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before you commit. Our
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 8, 2006
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          I don't recommend deciding on a household for at least a year. There is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before you commit. Our house, actually has it as one of our rules. You can come play with us, and check out what we are about, but you can't be put on our watch list until you've been in the SCA for a year, so by the time you make member, you are nearly 2 years in the SCA and have a foundation to work from. Too many people commit, and then later find out that this isn't a group you want to belong to, and frequently there are hurt feelings when it is brought out.

          Gwenhyfar
          <
          <
          <
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: pumpkinhead
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Well, Hello


          HI! I'm a newbie also, but found that the Kingdom of Altantia website is very accomindating. they have a search by zip could for local groups. Since you are lucky enough to be smack in the middle of two groups, you can attend both and see which one you like the vibe of better. also look at how far you would have to travel to attend. And as I have been warned, don't commit to being within a household till you know just what the household will expect from you and what there aim, goal is. I've seen already wit nessed a household leader who is very very driven (to the extreme, almost in an unhealthy way) in regards to her household actually kick someone out, cause they were going through a period of real life turmoil and weren't commiting as much as her. As soon as I saw that I decided to try to become buddies with that person, and avoid households till I found one that would be a benefit to belong to. I thought joining a group was about inclusion and working together not being
          an outcast (when someone is going through a hard time that is when they need the people they have known for years the most)
          http://www.atlantia.sca.org/

          I've already noticed in the short time I've been around my local group that they have a lot of diverse interests in general but have a major focus that is not within my interests. So I will plod away doing research to create my own persona, share my skills (mainly within the fiber world, embroidery, weaving, spinning, etc) and learn from them the various other options with in SCA & the Arts & Sciences. Have to admit it was the Kingdoms A & S that got my attention and made 2 of my friends drag me to the event.

          I'm also lucky enough to have another group close enough to check out. I hope to attend thier Birthday celebration coming up.
          ellenrw1 <AuntyD@...> wrote:
          Well hello all,
          Yes this is the obligatory *wave* Hello-I'm-New-Here.

          My name is Ellen, I live in Delaware, and although I'm not a rough
          newbie (many of my friends are in the group, and I was involved a long
          while ago) I'm new again.

          Could anyone tell me how I should go about this all again? I live
          right on the border between Cair Adement (sp) and the Philly SCA
          group. So I am not sure whome to contact.

          Many thanks, Ellen

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Roland
          ... but you can only be an officer in the one whose borders you officially live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in charge of each group will
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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            > There is no reason why you can't be involved with both groups,
            but >you can only be an officer in the one whose borders you
            officially >live within (which is done by zip code; the folks in
            charge of each >group will know which zip codes belong to them).


            I live in the Province of Tree Girt Sea, I am the Chatelaine for the
            Shire of the Grey Gargoyles. Just think of me as a mideival
            commuter. Our Knights Marshal and our Rapier Marshal both do the
            same thing.

            Also for you newcomers I always recommend doing a quick once over of
            the Society's rules and your kingdom's laws. It is good to know the
            rules for the organization you are in. Don't become a rules lawyer
            it is a bad thing to be. But you will be armed with knowledge and
            that is good.

            Society Rules aka Corpora

            http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf
          • bronwynmgn@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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              In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had to live in a
              shire's area to be an officer of it):

              <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
              (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the Middle.>>

              Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
              everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of
              experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a number of
              situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
              one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who lived in
              one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of situations
              where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
              official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they didn't
              physically live in.

              The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself officially
              declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by the
              BOD to achieve.

              On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in Silver
              Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties, and
              only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code list
              arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is actually
              part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak Rose.
              There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
              actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to the East.


              Brangwayna Morgan
              Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
              Lancaster, PA


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kristine Elliott
              ... How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom. East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that sort of
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 9, 2006
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                On 4/9/06, bronwynmgn@... <bronwynmgn@...> wrote:
                >
                > In a message dated 4/9/2006 6:56:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes (in response to me saying that you had
                > to live in a
                > shire's area to be an officer of it):
                >
                >
                > <<Not true....living in Windsor, we have had people here who are officers
                >
                > (and Royalty) of Ealdormere, even though our shire is part of the
                > Middle.>>
                >
                > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to
                > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years
                > of
                > experience in the SCA. And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a
                > number of
                > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get another
                >
                > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who
                > lived in
                > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of
                > situations
                > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as their
                >
                > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they
                > didn't
                > physically live in.
                >
                > The only way to legally do this by SCA rules is to have yourself
                > officially
                > declared a citizen of the other group, and I think that may take action by
                > the
                > BOD to achieve.
                >
                > On the other hand, zip codes and such are strange things. We here in
                > Silver
                > Rylle always thought that we were all of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties,
                > and
                > only those counties. We were very surprised when an updated zip code
                > list
                > arrived and we found out that Hershey, which is in Dauphin County, is
                > actually
                > part of Silver Rylle, even though the rest of Dauphin County is Blak
                > Rose.
                > There is also a small chunk on the eastern side of Lancaster County that
                > actually belongs to Hartshorn-dale, our neighbors in Chester County to
                > the East.
                >
                >
                >
                > Brangwayna Morgan
                > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                > Lancaster, PA
                >
                >

                How strictly such rules are interpretted seems to depend on the kingdom.
                East Kingdom is much stricter in my experience than other places on that
                sort of thing. In fact when Michel Wolffauer was explaining some of the EK
                territorial rules to me a few years ago, I laughed hysterically. I thought
                they were a joke! Nope, just one of this IKA (intrakingdom anthropology)
                things that catches you when you least expect them.

                Brangwayna is correct, as far as East Kingdom goes.

                Scolastica


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                ... The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to kingdom. Remember that some offices are actually not officially warranted by
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                  On Sunday 09 April 2006 10:23, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                  > Not saying you are wrong or mistaken, but that goes totally contrary to  
                  > everything I have ever heard about holding official posts in my 15 years of  
                  > experience in the SCA.  And I've been a seneschal and been involved in a  number of
                  > situations, some very recently, where one group was trying to get  another
                  > one to give them a certain zip code or zip codes so that somebody who  lived in
                  > one group could be an officer of another group; also a number of  situations
                  > where people maintained a PO box in one zip code and listed that as  their
                  > official address so they could be counted as a member of a group they  didn't
                  > physically live in.

                  The residency requirements vary from office to office and from kingdom to
                  kingdom.

                  Remember that some "offices" are actually not officially warranted by the
                  SCA, Inc. For example, here in the Middle Kingdom, a lot of shires and
                  baronies have an "officer" who keeps track of the group's demo gear and
                  other equipment. This isn't (at least here in the MK) an actual warranted
                  office, just an informal volunteer job that in effect is a deputy to the
                  Seneschal. That being the case, there's no residency requirement to be
                  Quartermaster because as far as the Kingdom is concerned it's not a real
                  office.

                  In the Middle Kingdom, the general policy for residency is that an officer
                  has to live within the lands of the group where they wish to serve, unless
                  they get a waiver from their Kingdom superior. But I think this varies from
                  kingdom to kingdom -- some may be stricter than we are, some less strict.

                  I took a look at the SCA Governing Documents (November 2005 edition), and I
                  didn't see anything specifically about residency there, other than that any
                  warranted officer must live at a residence that receives their Kingdom
                  newsletter. I think the stricter requirements must be kingdom-specific.
                  The Gov Docs do a lot of delegating of authority to the kingdoms for
                  establishment of local offices.

                  Kind regards,

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words! Households are great -- I m very happy to be a member of one myself. But I ve seen too many cases
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                    On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:30, Megan & Dave wrote:
                    > I don't recommend deciding on a household for at least a year.  There
                    > is so much involved in the SCA you need to find your bearings before
                    > you commit.  [...] Too many people commit, and then later find out that
                    > this isn't a group you want to belong to, and frequently there are hurt
                    > feelings when it is brought out.

                    These are, in my personal opinion, very, very wise words!

                    Households are great -- I'm very happy to be a member of one myself.
                    But I've seen too many cases where households eager to grow their numbers
                    met up with new people eager to feel a part of a circle of friends -- with
                    disastrous results.

                    At an event last summer, our household shared camping space with another
                    household that was one of these eager-grabbers. There were some newbies
                    camping with this other household, and from watching the interaction, I
                    formulated the following:

                    Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household

                    You should run, not walk, away from any household where....

                    * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
                    that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
                    tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"

                    * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
                    explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
                    has only about 25 members.

                    * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
                    a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
                    a cold beer.

                    Our folks were having a great amount of private amusement about all this
                    (and I swear, the above really happened -- they even had the whiteboard with
                    them to explain the org chart!). Mind you, these were really NICE
                    people, but we just couldn't imagine why they needed so much bureaucracy
                    for such a small group where presumably everyone in the group is friends!

                    We've got about twenty members in our household [*], we don't actively recruit,
                    and our fifteen year history we've never had any serious interpersonal conflict.
                    We don't *need* officers or lots of rules because we only invite people
                    into the household with whom we already have close friendships. Decisions
                    are by concensus, and new members have to be approved unanimously. The upside
                    is that we have a very relaxed and friendly culture -- the downside is that
                    we don't have the number to make an effective fighting unit or guild or to
                    do really large service projects.

                    I'm not saying our way is the only way -- I'm just pointing out that there
                    are a zillion different ways for households to work. If you're new to the
                    SCA, you owe it to yourself to stick around for a while and get to know
                    people from a variety of different kinds of household before you commit
                    to one. Look for a household whose lifestyle meshes well with your own
                    attitudes and values. Some households are just groups of friends, others
                    are more hierarchical, like a medieval family household. Some are local
                    to one area, others are kingdom-wide or even multi-kingdom.

                    That process of learning about the households in your area happens in
                    parallel with learning about the various activities and customs of the SCA,
                    and with learning about yourself and what you want from this hobby. All
                    of these things take time -- hence the wisdom of Gwenhyfar's post which I
                    quoted above. :-)

                    And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
                    couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we really
                    had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA experience.
                    Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you don't have to
                    do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one. Just pick the
                    people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't taken, and
                    declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to it.

                    Justin

                    [*] Erevnite Asteron, http://erevnite.4th.com/

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                    keys fesswise reversed sable.

                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                  • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                    Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming into the night* Example B: Quoth Giudo Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 10, 2006
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                      Example A: AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!! *witness Giudo running, screaming
                      into the night*

                      Example B: Quoth Giudo "Intriguing. Now can you translate that into
                      English? No, no...English. As in the language that the REST of us
                      speak."

                      Example C: Ummmm...no. I don't do beer. Come back to my encampment and
                      we'll enjoy some Gooseberry wine that an apprentice sister of mine
                      made.


                      *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
                      Sadly, I've seen all of these in action. Funny enough, it was a group
                      like Example C that wanted to put me on their "watch list" for
                      consideration for joining their Household. I looked at them and just
                      shook my head, said "No thank you" and went on my merry way.


                      Now, at last count, I'm a member of...*counts on his fingers
                      again*...5 (is that right?)...yup...5 different Households of various
                      sizes and natures:

                      * Clan Blue Feather: Society-wide clan for the LGBT community, their
                      allies, and those interested in studying Medieval sexuality. [[Very
                      LITTLE beaurocratic stuff, at least amongst the Calontir contingent.]]

                      * House ORU (aka "Orphans 'R' Us"): A local Household of about 10-12
                      individuals who all are close friends; almost like a 2nd family at the
                      local level. [[My roommate is my House sister, and we seriously act
                      like siblings 99.99% of the time. We've been mistaken as such many
                      times in real life...*LOL*]]

                      * House Leatherwolf: A personal Household founded by HE Master Modar
                      Neznanich, his lady wife, and her close friend. This Household follows
                      the tenant of "Ohana"...and people have been invited in just for being
                      themselves, where they've done something that has struck the founders
                      as being awe-inspiring, really cool, or has affected them in a
                      positive way.

                      * Compagnia dell'Arcangelo Gabriele: My personal Household, based
                      loosely on the Florentine confraternities...where those I have invited
                      into the Household exemplify the idea of charity. So far there's a
                      long-time college friend, and a friend I met through LiveJournal (of
                      all places)...and myself. I've opened it up that they are free to
                      invite their significant others and anyone they have a formal
                      relationship with (ie: Peer/associate, student/teacher, other heads of
                      House, etc). And since the three of us cover 2 Kingdoms, we are free
                      to add others to the group if we think they would benefit from such an
                      association...just let the others know who you're looking at, why they
                      are so cool, and invite them in. [[I'm very amorphous, but I'm really
                      sending the hint out that we are not "The Family" or "The Borg".]]

                      * And then there's the small Household with my Laurel and my fellow
                      apprentice brothers and sisters. This goes into another realm of
                      relationships that most newcomers should NOT be bogged down with. If
                      you've only been playing for a year, and you've got a Peer coming up
                      to you asking you to be their squire, their apprentice, or their
                      protege...RUN!!! 9 times out of 10 they are either trying to warp you
                      to THEIR view of the SCA, or their off collecting "trophy" associates.
                      [[BAD blood runs in both of these scenarios.]]

                      Hrm...I'll hold off on that entire rant for later. [[I could write an
                      entire essay on my search and inquiry into the realm of Peer/associate
                      relationships.]]

                      Giudo di Niccolo



                      On 4/10/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                      > Justin's Rules On How To NOT Find A Household
                      >
                      > You should run, not walk, away from any household where....
                      >
                      > * ...the person who is the leader of the household is bragging openly
                      > that, "Yeah, I'm a legend with the Chirurgeons! They
                      > tell war stories about all the stupid things I do at Pennsic!"
                      >
                      > * ...it takes the household leader twenty minutes with a whiteboard to
                      > explain the organization chart and officer roles of a household that
                      > has only about 25 members.
                      >
                      > * ...there are multiple levels of approval and appeal required to invite
                      > a friend to visit your campsite, sit under the dining fly, and have
                      > a cold beer.
                    • Milica of Varna
                      I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this wish to
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 11, 2006
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                        I would agree with this. Also, many households are created for camping
                        purposes at large camping events. This allows people to choose with whom this
                        wish to camp. There are many of these households that exist only for the
                        wars. Not a bad way to go either.

                        Milica

                        On Monday 10 April 2006 23:27, Iustinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                        > And don't overlook the possibility of forming your own household with a
                        > couple of close friends. Milica and I formed Erevnite Asteron before we
                        > really had any official ties to an SCA shire, and with almost no SCA
                        > experience. Households aren't officially sanctioned by the SCA, so you
                        > don't have to do any paperwork or have any special approval to form one.
                        > Just pick the people you want in your household, pick a name that isn't
                        > taken, and declare that you're a household. That's about all there is to
                        > it.

                        --
                        **************************************************************************************

                        THL Milica of Varna
                        Chronicler, Barony of Brendoken

                        **************************************************************************************
                      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                        ... No, M Lord, with respect I must correct you. These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON. Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN} Justin
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                          On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                          > *LOL*  Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.

                          No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.

                          These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.

                          Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}

                          Justin

                          --
                          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                          keys fesswise reversed sable.

                          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                        • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                          ... OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS! Giudo
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 12, 2006
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                            On 4/12/06, Iustinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                            > On Tuesday 11 April 2006 00:01, Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi wrote:
                            > > *LOL* Wow...those are some scary, scary versions of Households.
                            >
                            > No, M'Lord, with respect I must correct you.
                            >
                            > These are all THE SAME HOUSEHOLD DURING A SINGLE AFTERNOON.
                            >
                            > Now you should *really* be scared. {GRIN}
                            >
                            > Justin


                            OK...the SAME household in ONE day? EGADS!

                            Giudo
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