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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Break it all down :) Thanks!!

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  • Tara
    So much information, it s wonderful! Thank you! Thank you for the compliment, Margaret. I fell in love with `Juliote when I saw it. I m glad that it will
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 30, 2005
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      So much information, it's wonderful! Thank you!

      Thank you for the compliment, Margaret. I fell in love
      with `Juliote' when I saw it. I'm glad that it will work for me. I
      shall stay on the safe side of things and go with Juliote la
      Bretonne. I think it has a nice ring to it.

      I'm hoping to get involved with one of the musical guilds, and play
      off my name as the whims of a musical and wander lusting father and
      mother. We know how those artsy people can be (speaking from
      personal experience of course). :)

      I haven't worked out all the details yet. I will be joining this
      group again under a new Yahoo ID I created around my new name
      Juliote... I'm just so excited to use the name; I had to create a
      new Yahoo ID. I'm so happy, I'm giddy! Since getting your
      approval, Scolastica, I finally feel some ownership to it. :)

      Thank you again Scolastica. You are Fabulous!!

      Forever Indebted To You,
      Juliote la Bretonne



      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Elliott
      <souriete@g...> wrote:
      >
      > On 12/28/05, Kristine Elliott <souriete@g...> wrote:
      > > I've had to consult the SCA Heralds list, because I am still
      worried
      > > that "Denise le Breton" might be a transcription error, and I
      want to
      > > get someone else's opinion on it. I did determine (from Reaney
      and
      > > Wilson's _A Dictionary of English Surnames_) that "le Bret" does
      mean
      > > the same thing as "le Breton" -- that the person is from
      Brittany. So
      > > I do think that "la Brete" is a feminine form of "le Bret" (which
      > > doesn't appear in that list from the census, but does appear in
      other
      > > sources). Also, in
      > >
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/paris1423surnames.html I
      > > found "La Bretonne" dated to 1421. (Incidentally, Juliote is
      listed
      > > here too:
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/paris1423.html .)
      > >
      > > So, if you want a byname that means "the woman from
      Brittany," "la
      > > Brete" or "la Bretonne" are ideal -- dated to 1292 and 1421
      > > respectively. The form "le Breton" for a woman might be OK, but
      I am
      > > waiting to hear from some other names people before I tell you
      that it
      > > definitely is.
      > >
      > > I am sorry I changed my opinion in the process of writing that
      email
      > > last night. If I had had time, I would have gone back and edited
      the
      > > rest, but as it was I left as they were locking the doors. I am
      glad
      > > my explanations helped you, however hastily written they were.
      Feel
      > > free to ask for clarification if anything I said didn't make
      sense!
      > >
      >
      > I think Juliote la Brete or Juliote la Bretonne would be OK if you
      are
      > from the 13th, 14th or even early 15th century, judging by the
      > citations from
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/paris1423.html
      > . Juliote le Breton or Juliote Breton is more likely if your
      persona
      > is late period French, because an inherited surname seems to be
      more
      > likely to be in masculine form from what I can tell from my
      readings.
      > I think that inherited surnames tended toward the masculine form,
      > generally. This, I must say, is my best guess. I know much more
      about
      > English medieval naming practices than I do about medieval French
      > naming practices and no one on SCAHeralds offered any more specific
      > information on when the changeover from functional bynames to
      > inherited surnames occurred. This may be because the situation
      > parallelled England, where the change to inherited surnames
      occurred
      > gradually between the 11th and the 16th century, being rare but
      > occasional among the highest ranks in the 11th century and by the
      16th
      > century, were practically universal except for a few peasants in a
      few
      > "backward" (or conservative) areas.
      >
      > The other thing about a functional byname, I should mention, is
      that
      > when functional bynames were used, husbands and wives used their
      own
      > bynames -- the wife did not take the husband's byname the way in
      > modern USA, wives traditionally change their last name to their
      > husbands.
      >
      >
      > Scolastica
      > --
      > http://www.geocities.com/souriete/
      >
      > "I have come to the conclusion that this administration values
      loyalty
      > more than anything else, more than competence or, frankly, more
      than
      > the truth." Rep. Christopher Shays.
      >
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