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  • gwyns_quest
    Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your time because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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      Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your time
      because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?
    • Jamie Schork-Morency
      Yep. But they were mostly ex-SCAdians who had had a lot of drama before they left. I pretty much told them I m going to give it a try, and at the very least I
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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        Yep. But they were mostly ex-SCAdians who had had a lot of drama before they
        left. I pretty much told them I'm going to give it a try, and at the very
        least I get more pretty costumes for our LARPs and my husband has an excuse
        to get camping gear.
        -Jamie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gedney@OPTONLINE.NET
        ... My favorite response has been to point out that interest in bird watching, collecting stamps or model trains are just as much a waste of time, money and
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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          > Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your
          > time
          > because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?

          My favorite response has been to point out that interest in bird
          watching, collecting stamps or model trains are just as much a
          "waste" of time, money and energy.

          I know a grown man who spends thousands of dollars every
          year to operate toy planes.
          At lunch just yesterday, he was bragging on the deal he got:
          He just bought 2 three thousand dollar engines for his P48
          Mustang models planes "for only 2200 each,still in the
          factory boxes!".

          You know, I dont spend that much all Pennsic.

          My father pretty much disappears every spring to go fly fishing
          all over the northeast. He compulsively ties fly after fly from about
          mid Feb to opening day readying his kit, and spends thousands
          on exotic ingredients for his flies. (Why the hell a grown man
          needs Mongolian rooster hackle is beyond me.)
          And he only does "Catch and Release", which means in the end
          he never has any fish to show for his effort.

          Most hobbies when you look at them are pretty "durned fool
          crazy" at some level.

          Once you give mundies the idea that the SCA is pretty much like
          any other more "common" hobby, they pretty much leave you
          alone. This is how I generally "sell" it to parents or relatives who
          are "concerned".

          Another thing I tie it to is the Rev war and Civil War groups that
          are pretty comon in our area.

          Capt Elias
          Dragonship Haven, East
          (Stratford, CT, USA)

          -Renaissance Geek of the Cyber Seas

          - Help! I am being pecked to death by the Ducks of Dilletanteism!
          There are SO damn many more things I want to try in the SCA
          than I can possibly have time for. It's killing me!!!

          -------------------------------------------------------------
          Upon the hempen tackle ship-boys climbing;
          Hear the shrill whistle which doth order give
          To sounds confused; behold the threaden sails,
          Borne with the invisible and creeping wind,
          Draw the huge bottoms through the furrow'd sea,
          Breasting the lofty surge: O, do but think
          You stand upon the ravage and behold
          A city on the inconstant billows dancing;
          For so appears this fleet majestical,
          Holding due course to Harfleur.
          - Shakespeare - Henry V, Act III, Prologue
        • Jamie Schork-Morency
          My family s come to the conclusion that it can t be any weirder than my vampire LARPing. And seeing as I got a husband, a largish circle of good friends and
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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            My family's come to the conclusion that it can't be any weirder than my
            vampire LARPing. And seeing as I got a husband, a largish circle of good
            friends and some good entries on my resume from that, they don't give me
            half the grief they used to.
            -Jamie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bronwynmgn@aol.com
            In a message dated 10/14/2005 2:02:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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              In a message dated 10/14/2005 2:02:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

              <<Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your time
              because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?>>

              After 12 years in the SCA, my husband's mother still thinks he's going to
              "grow out of it".

              Basically, you've got two options. The first, non-confrontational and
              non-complicated thing is to smile, say "Well, I'm having fun and learning a lot,
              too", and leave it at that.

              The other one's a bit more complicated. Find out what the other person's
              favorite hobby is and do a side-by-side comparison of what you do with your
              time vs what they do with theirs. Pay special attention to what you are
              learning (both historical knowledge and new skills) and how long what you are doing
              lasts (for example, if their hobby is watching sports, it lasts for the
              duration of the game and as long as you can reasonably keep rehashing it. If you
              do calligraphy, people can enjoy your work for years.)


              Brangwayna Morgan
              Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
              Lancaster, PA


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • cad557@aol.com
              My husband thinks I m nuts. But I am having alot of fun.My mother, son, daughter-in-law, daughter, and 4 grandchildren are involved. I am learning so much
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 14, 2005
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                My husband thinks I'm nuts. But I am having alot of fun.My mother, son,
                daughter-in-law, daughter, and 4 grandchildren are involved. I am learning so much
                history of common everyday things and have gained so many friends. Other
                people just don't understand but I explain that it isn't a Renn Faire.......it is
                soooooo much more. Then they get interested and seem to understand a little
                better when I tell them what all we do. Just keep your head up and tell them
                about it. If they still think you are crazy.....Just smile!!!!

                Milisandia


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • christelle kelly
                My sister-in-law told me not to join because it was a bunch of geeks and not meaning geeks in a smart people way. Well it turns out that in the time period
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 17, 2005
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                  My sister-in-law told me not to join because it was a "bunch of geeks" and
                  not meaning geeks in a smart people way. Well it turns out that in the time
                  period between when she had known people in it and I had joined, those
                  people had left (they were not really the type to stick around
                  anyways...more the burn bridges type). So based on my persistance....she has
                  now joined and is loving it. And by persisitance I don't mean bugging her. I
                  reminded her that one of the things she has always respected about me is
                  that I "do my own thing" and that I would not deserve that respect if I did
                  not give it a try based on her opinion. After that...I left her alone, when
                  she saw me having fun, she followed.

                  On 10/14/05, Jamie Schork-Morency <pouncy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yep. But they were mostly ex-SCAdians who had had a lot of drama before
                  > they
                  > left. I pretty much told them I'm going to give it a try, and at the very
                  > least I get more pretty costumes for our LARPs and my husband has an
                  > excuse
                  > to get camping gear.
                  > -Jamie
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... Heck, for several years my friends tried to get me to join the SCA, and *I* was the one who said it was a bunch of crazy weirdos and I wanted no part of
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 17, 2005
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                    On Friday 14 October 2005 13:17, gwyns_quest wrote:
                    > Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your time
                    > because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?

                    Heck, for several years my friends tried to get me to join the SCA, and *I*
                    was the one who said it was a bunch of crazy weirdos and I wanted no part
                    of it. Then they got me to go to Pennsic 20, and I was hooked after the
                    first 30 minutes or so. :-)

                    A few years after I joined the SCA, I had the following conversation with
                    a co-worker after I returned from Pennsic:

                    Her: "So, where did you go for vacation for two weeks?"
                    Me: "It's a living history event called Pennsic war..." ...and went
                    on to explain about several thousand people living in tents and
                    learning about the Middle Ages
                    Her: "THAT'S WEIRD! Why would you want to do that?"
                    Me: (getting a little annoyed) "Well, gee, I guess any hobby that isn't
                    our own hobbies seems weird, doesn't it? I mean, probably you have
                    hobbies that others think are weird, right? We all do."
                    Her: "NO I DON'T!"
                    Me: "So, what are your hobbies?"
                    Her: "I don't have any."
                    Me: "Oh, come on. You have to do something for entertainment. Stamp
                    collecting? Fishing? Knitting? Old movies? Model trains?"
                    Her: "Nothing. I don't like hobbies."
                    Me: "Are you married? Do you have kids? If so, what do you do as a family?"
                    Her: "Married, no kids. We don't do any hobbies."
                    Me: (getting irritated again) "So, you work 40 hours a week, sleep about
                    56 hours a week, spend maybe 21 hours eating meals. What do you do with
                    the rest of the 176 hours?"
                    Her: "Nothing."
                    Me: "You can't do 'nothing'. You at least have to watch TV or something."
                    Her: "Yeah, we watch TV."
                    Me: "And.....?"
                    Her: "That's all. We like to watch TV."
                    Me: "So, let me get this straight. You work full time, and when you get time
                    off from the office, all you and your husband want to do is watch TV?
                    And you think *I'm* weird?!"

                    She slunk away after that, and never again gave me a bad time about my hobby.
                    I've learned some diplomacy since then, and wouldn't have this conversation in
                    the same way today....but I think it still illustrates the point pretty well.

                    My brother is very blunt about saying the SCA is a waste of time. It gathers
                    no food and does not serve Vaal, after all. [*] Yet he will spend *hours* each
                    week clipping coupons from the newspaper to save maybe $10 on his groceries.

                    It's all relative -- one person's waste of time is another person's passion.

                    What I tell people now is the truth: that I've met a lot of really wonderful
                    people in the SCA, many of whom are now my close friends, and I enjoy socializing
                    with them and also having a creative outlet in re-creating a bygone era. I tell
                    them that it's fun to have a hobby where I can totally step out of the modern
                    world for a few hours at a time, relaxing because it's so utterly different from
                    my high-tech modern job. I tell them that I love to camp, and the SCA has a lot
                    of opportunities for that. I tell them that the SCA is quite a bit like improv
                    theatre, only with the added attraction of learning some history while doing it.
                    Or you can turn that around, and say that the SCA is a lot like a history
                    lesson, but more exciting because you do it instead of just talking or reading
                    about it.

                    Justin

                    [*] A reference to a Star Trek episode called "The Apple", in which the natives
                    of a planet spent their entire lives slavishly "feeding" a computer-driven
                    idol called Vaal. http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/TheApple.html

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                    keys fesswise reversed sable.

                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                  • gwyns_quest
                    I am not defending your brother or your co-worker...but I will say this: They are just caught up in the mundane details of life. Sometimes I think that I don t
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 18, 2005
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                      I am not defending your brother or your co-worker...but I will say
                      this: They are just caught up in the mundane details of life.
                      Sometimes I think that I don't like being an adult, because it can be
                      so boring. It's like suddenly you have to be in survival mode,
                      without realizing you are. You have to think of a job, buying food
                      (as your brother does--he is trying to save money by clipping
                      coupons), etc. You reach a point where you start wondering what your
                      goals are, and you remember all of the ones you once had. So, I can
                      sympathize with the people you mentioned, they are most likely just
                      caught up in the drudgery of adult life. Not that all of it is like
                      that, or that every adult feels that way, but it is easy to fall into
                      the trap.
                      You are right that the SCA is a way to learn about history, and fun
                      to "live" it yourself. Anything but mundane!




                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      <justin@4...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Friday 14 October 2005 13:17, gwyns_quest wrote:
                      > > Have any of you had people think you are crazy or wasting your
                      time
                      > > because of your interest in the SCA? What did you do, or say?
                      >
                      > Heck, for several years my friends tried to get me to join the SCA,
                      and *I*
                      > was the one who said it was a bunch of crazy weirdos and I wanted
                      no part
                      > of it. Then they got me to go to Pennsic 20, and I was hooked after
                      the
                      > first 30 minutes or so. :-)
                      >
                      > A few years after I joined the SCA, I had the following
                      conversation with
                      > a co-worker after I returned from Pennsic:
                      >
                      > Her: "So, where did you go for vacation for two weeks?"
                      > Me: "It's a living history event called Pennsic war..." ...and went
                      > on to explain about several thousand people living in tents and
                      > learning about the Middle Ages
                      > Her: "THAT'S WEIRD! Why would you want to do that?"
                      > Me: (getting a little annoyed) "Well, gee, I guess any hobby that
                      isn't
                      > our own hobbies seems weird, doesn't it? I mean, probably you
                      have
                      > hobbies that others think are weird, right? We all do."
                      > Her: "NO I DON'T!"
                      > Me: "So, what are your hobbies?"
                      > Her: "I don't have any."
                      > Me: "Oh, come on. You have to do something for entertainment. Stamp
                      > collecting? Fishing? Knitting? Old movies? Model trains?"
                      > Her: "Nothing. I don't like hobbies."
                      > Me: "Are you married? Do you have kids? If so, what do you do as a
                      family?"
                      > Her: "Married, no kids. We don't do any hobbies."
                      > Me: (getting irritated again) "So, you work 40 hours a week, sleep
                      about
                      > 56 hours a week, spend maybe 21 hours eating meals. What do
                      you do with
                      > the rest of the 176 hours?"
                      > Her: "Nothing."
                      > Me: "You can't do 'nothing'. You at least have to watch TV or
                      something."
                      > Her: "Yeah, we watch TV."
                      > Me: "And.....?"
                      > Her: "That's all. We like to watch TV."
                      > Me: "So, let me get this straight. You work full time, and when
                      you get time
                      > off from the office, all you and your husband want to do is
                      watch TV?
                      > And you think *I'm* weird?!"
                      >
                      > She slunk away after that, and never again gave me a bad time about
                      my hobby.
                      > I've learned some diplomacy since then, and wouldn't have this
                      conversation in
                      > the same way today....but I think it still illustrates the point
                      pretty well.
                      >
                      > My brother is very blunt about saying the SCA is a waste of time.
                      It gathers
                      > no food and does not serve Vaal, after all. [*] Yet he will spend
                      *hours* each
                      > week clipping coupons from the newspaper to save maybe $10 on his
                      groceries.
                      >
                      > It's all relative -- one person's waste of time is another person's
                      passion.
                      >
                      > What I tell people now is the truth: that I've met a lot of really
                      wonderful
                      > people in the SCA, many of whom are now my close friends, and I
                      enjoy socializing
                      > with them and also having a creative outlet in re-creating a bygone
                      era. I tell
                      > them that it's fun to have a hobby where I can totally step out of
                      the modern
                      > world for a few hours at a time, relaxing because it's so utterly
                      different from
                      > my high-tech modern job. I tell them that I love to camp, and the
                      SCA has a lot
                      > of opportunities for that. I tell them that the SCA is quite a bit
                      like improv
                      > theatre, only with the added attraction of learning some history
                      while doing it.
                      > Or you can turn that around, and say that the SCA is a lot like a
                      history
                      > lesson, but more exciting because you do it instead of just talking
                      or reading
                      > about it.
                      >
                      > Justin
                      >
                      > [*] A reference to a Star Trek episode called "The Apple", in which
                      the natives
                      > of a planet spent their entire lives slavishly "feeding" a
                      computer-driven
                      > idol called Vaal.
                      http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/TheApple.html
                      >
                      > --
                      > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]
                      xxxx()
                      > Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                      > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                      > keys fesswise reversed sable.
                      >
                      > Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio)
                      http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                      > justin@4... PGP Public Key at
                      http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      >
                    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      ... True, but he s compulsive about it, and he doesn t count the value of his *time*. Time with his wife and daughter is precious. How much time with your
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 18, 2005
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                        On Tuesday 18 October 2005 09:54, gwyns_quest wrote:
                        > I am not defending your brother or your co-worker...but I will say
                        > this: They are just caught up in the mundane details of life.
                        > Sometimes I think that I don't like being an adult, because it can be
                        > so boring. It's like suddenly you have to be in survival mode,
                        > without realizing you are. You have to think of a job, buying food
                        > (as your brother does--he is trying to save money by clipping
                        > coupons), etc.

                        True, but he's compulsive about it, and he doesn't count the value of his
                        *time*. Time with his wife and daughter is precious. How much time with
                        your family are you willing to give up to save 15 cents on toilet paper?
                        He's in an income bracket where this savings is not significant; this is
                        about control issues, not about really needing the money.

                        My brother also has in common with my former co-worker another trait: they
                        both are terrified, deep down in their souls, of being different in any
                        way from what they see as societal norms. "Normal, acceptable people don't
                        dress up in medieval clothes and learn how to make mead. Normal, acceptable
                        people watch American Idol or Friends on TV instead. WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK
                        ABOUT ME?!"

                        It's funny how society says it's perfectly normal to paint your face half
                        black and half orange, go to a football game, strip off your shirt, wave
                        it in the air, and bark like a dog in front of forty thousand people, but
                        it's "weird" if you want to learn about 14th century Italian embroidery
                        in a classroom with eighteen of your friends. :-) There's an old saying
                        that the difference between a "religion" and a "cult" is that the former has
                        a lot of members and the latter has only a few. I think this logic applies
                        to hobbies, too. There are more football fans than living history buffs.

                        > You reach a point where you start wondering what your
                        > goals are, and you remember all of the ones you once had. So, I can
                        > sympathize with the people you mentioned, they are most likely just
                        > caught up in the drudgery of adult life. Not that all of it is like
                        > that, or that every adult feels that way, but it is easy to fall into
                        > the trap.

                        Very true. And at the end of life, you look back and wonder if it was even
                        worth being born. Heck, I have what I consider to be a very fulfilling life,
                        and yet I still find myself feeling that I've wasted too many hours writing
                        computer software to make my living, and not spent nearly enough hours helping
                        others. I can't even imagine how oppressively crushing it would feel to look
                        back on a lifetime where there was absolutely nothing but my job, where I had
                        never even *tried* to break out now and then and see a larger picture.

                        > You are right that the SCA is a way to learn about history, and fun
                        > to "live" it yourself. Anything but mundane!

                        Part of what makes the SCA appear weird to outsiders is the kind of people
                        we attract. Living history groups, by their nature, attract people who have
                        a lot of imagination, a lot of energy, and a good deal of intellect. Such
                        individuals tend also to be eclectic in their preferences and behaviors.
                        The SCA is full of people who are not afraid to be different, and so of
                        course the organization reflects that attitude. From the outside, what we
                        call "not afraid to be different" looks like "doesn't care about what
                        other people think." Almost all cultures are threatened by things that don't
                        conform to their mores. Also, cultures tend to define their own boundaries
                        not only by what their own culture is, but also by how members of other
                        cultures do not fit that model. We categorize things by what they are and
                        also by what they aren't. So people outside the SCA are using our eclectic
                        subculture to define a boundary of their own more conventional subcultures.
                        They don't necessarily mean anything bad by this; it's an instinctive
                        reaction for many people, happening beneath the level of conscious thought.

                        Gee, that got a bit more convoluted than I had intended. Sorry. :-)

                        Justin

                        --
                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                        keys fesswise reversed sable.

                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      • Sydney Walker Freedman
                        ... TV? What s that? (just kidding!) I find the majority of what is on TV uninteresting and/or immoral, and since I m a music major, turning on American
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 18, 2005
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                          > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 09:54, gwyns_quest wrote:
                          > > I am not defending your brother or your co-worker...but I will say
                          > > this: They are just caught up in the mundane details of life.
                          > > Sometimes I think that I don't like being an adult, because it can be
                          > > so boring. It's like suddenly you have to be in survival mode,
                          > > without realizing you are. You have to think of a job, buying food
                          > > (as your brother does--he is trying to save money by clipping
                          > > coupons), etc.
                          >
                          > True, but he's compulsive about it, and he doesn't count the value of his
                          > *time*. Time with his wife and daughter is precious. How much time with
                          > your family are you willing to give up to save 15 cents on toilet paper?
                          > He's in an income bracket where this savings is not significant; this is
                          > about control issues, not about really needing the money.
                          >
                          > My brother also has in common with my former co-worker another trait:
                          > they
                          > both are terrified, deep down in their souls, of being different in any
                          > way from what they see as societal norms. "Normal, acceptable people
                          > don't
                          > dress up in medieval clothes and learn how to make mead. Normal,
                          > acceptable
                          > people watch American Idol or Friends on TV instead. WHAT WILL PEOPLE
                          > THINK
                          > ABOUT ME?!"
                          TV? What's that? (just kidding!) I find the majority of what is on TV
                          uninteresting and/or immoral, and since I'm a music major, turning on
                          American Idol is one of the best ways to get me out of the house. :) I
                          honestly don't remember the last time I watched television (this doesn't
                          include the movies I've watched in my college classes). anyway, the point
                          of all of that was to illustrate just how "abnormal" i am, especially
                          compared with your coworker. :)
                          >
                          > It's funny how society says it's perfectly normal to paint your face half
                          > black and half orange, go to a football game, strip off your shirt, wave
                          > it in the air, and bark like a dog in front of forty thousand people, but
                          > it's "weird" if you want to learn about 14th century Italian
                          > embroidery
                          > in a classroom with eighteen of your friends. :-) There's an old saying
                          > that the difference between a "religion" and a "cult"
                          > is that the former has
                          > a lot of members and the latter has only a few. I think this logic
                          > applies
                          > to hobbies, too. There are more football fans than living history buffs.
                          So, if we take this analogy to its logical conclusion, the SCA is a cult.
                          :) You've just told a very conventional Lutheran that she is now a member
                          of a cult. :) *gasp*
                          >
                          > > You reach a point where you start wondering what your
                          > > goals are, and you remember all of the ones you once had. So, I can
                          > > sympathize with the people you mentioned, they are most likely just
                          > > caught up in the drudgery of adult life. Not that all of it is like
                          > > that, or that every adult feels that way, but it is easy to fall into
                          > > the trap.
                          >
                          > Very true. And at the end of life, you look back and wonder if it was
                          > even
                          > worth being born. Heck, I have what I consider to be a very fulfilling
                          > life,
                          > and yet I still find myself feeling that I've wasted too many hours
                          > writing
                          > computer software to make my living, and not spent nearly enough hours
                          > helping
                          > others. I can't even imagine how oppressively crushing it would feel to
                          > look
                          > back on a lifetime where there was absolutely nothing but my job, where I
                          > had
                          > never even *tried* to break out now and then and see a larger picture.
                          I'm currently at the point in life wher I have many goals and am looking
                          at a larger picture (of course not literally, especially in my case :) ),
                          and I hope that I will never get stuck in a rut.
                          By the way, by doing your job as a computer programmer, you are
                          helping a large number of people. If it weren't for people like you,
                          I wouldn't even be able to use a computer. (For those of you who are
                          new to the list, I'm blind and use special screen reading programs.)
                          >
                          > > You are right that the SCA is a way to learn about history, and fun
                          > > to "live" it yourself. Anything but mundane!
                          >
                          > Part of what makes the SCA appear weird to outsiders is the kind of
                          > people
                          > we attract. Living history groups, by their nature, attract people who
                          > have
                          > a lot of imagination, a lot of energy, and a good deal of intellect. Such
                          > individuals tend also to be eclectic in their preferences and behaviors.
                          > The SCA is full of people who are not afraid to be different, and so of
                          > course the organization reflects that attitude. From the outside, what we
                          > call "not afraid to be different" looks like "doesn't care
                          > about what
                          > other people think." Almost all cultures are threatened by things
                          > that don't
                          > conform to their mores. Also, cultures tend to define their own
                          > boundaries
                          > not only by what their own culture is, but also by how members of other
                          > cultures do not fit that model. We categorize things by what they are and
                          > also by what they aren't. So people outside the SCA are using our
                          > eclectic
                          > subculture to define a boundary of their own more conventional
                          > subcultures.
                          > They don't necessarily mean anything bad by this; it's an instinctive
                          > reaction for many people, happening beneath the level of conscious
                          > thought.
                          >
                          > Gee, that got a bit more convoluted than I had intended. Sorry. :-)
                          Now you have my lame jokes to counteract that. Sorry; this is what
                          happens when I get bored.
                          >
                          > Justin
                          >
                          > --
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                          Pax Christi,
                          Sydney
                        • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                          ... I ve never even watched the show. I know what it s about from seeing previews, and it holds no interest for me. Most stars are now manufactured based on
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 18, 2005
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                            On Tuesday 18 October 2005 11:01, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote:
                            > TV? What's that? (just kidding!) I find the majority of what is on TV
                            > uninteresting and/or immoral, and since I'm a music major, turning on
                            > American Idol is one of the best ways to get me out of the house. :)

                            I've never even watched the show. I know what it's about from seeing previews,
                            and it holds no interest for me. Most "stars" are now manufactured based on
                            marketing analysis by the media companies; they see a performer and say, "This
                            person will reach the affluent 18~25-year-old demographic. Let's get the
                            PR machine rolling and make them famous." To me, American Idol is just a new
                            way of researching the market demographics. Blech.

                            > I honestly don't remember the last time I watched television (this doesn't
                            > include the movies I've watched in my college classes). anyway, the point
                            > of all of that was to illustrate just how "abnormal" i am, especially
                            > compared with your coworker. :)

                            I watch occasionally, but it's the lowest-priority activity in my life. There
                            is not a single show on TV that will cause me to rearrange my schedule of
                            other things. I enjoy Law and Order, and The Daily Show, and a couple of others,
                            but if I've got something better to do, they are entirely forgotten with no
                            regrets. I love movies, but my lady wife (Milica of Varna, who is also on this
                            list) is an A-V librarian in mundania, and brings home lots of good stuff!
                            (In fact, one of the things I adore about her is that she broadens my mind by
                            bringing home films I've never heard of and talking me into watching them.)

                            > So, if we take this analogy to its logical conclusion, the SCA is a cult.
                            > :) You've just told a very conventional Lutheran that she is now a member
                            > of a cult. :) *gasp*

                            We have been called that on more than one occasion. People learn that there
                            are Pagans in the SCA and assume that means the SCA is a "Pagan cult". They
                            never seem to wonder whether the fact that we also have Catholics makes it
                            a Catholic cult, or our Jewish members make it a Jewish cult, or our
                            fundamentalist Protestant members make it an Evangelical Christian Cult.

                            The fact of the matter is, the SCA is a secular organization. We study the
                            religions of the Middle Ages in an historical context, but we don't recreate
                            any single religion -- Pagan, Christian, or other. Members are free to believe
                            as they wish, and to practice their own faith (or choose not to do so) as
                            private individuals, according to their own conscience. No one is allowed to
                            make a ceremony or ritual of *any* religion an official part of an SCA event,
                            or to compel others to participate. For example, you can say Grace with your
                            family at an SCA feast if you wish, but you can't stand up and lead the whole
                            room in prayer.

                            Interestingly enough, the SCA is just full of people from many religious
                            faiths, and somehow we all learn to respect one another's differences and just
                            get along. If only we could export that to the rest of the world.

                            But we are still labeled a cult from time to time, so your humorous analogy
                            is actually fairly accurate. :-)

                            > I'm currently at the point in life wher I have many goals and am looking
                            > at a larger picture (of course not literally, especially in my case :) ),
                            > and I hope that I will never get stuck in a rut.

                            I was getting that way. The SCA helped break me out of it, as did community
                            theatre, and most of all, my discovery of a wonderful lady who became my
                            wife. The kindest wish I can give to anyone is to find a life partner who
                            will still challenge and intellectually engage you after a dozen years
                            together!

                            > By the way, by doing your job as a computer programmer, you are
                            > helping a large number of people. If it weren't for people like you,
                            > I wouldn't even be able to use a computer. (For those of you who are
                            > new to the list, I'm blind and use special screen reading programs.)

                            Thank you for the kind words. Most of what programmers do has no such noble
                            purpose. I have, in recent years, become a contributor to the Open Source
                            software movement, which allows me to use my talents to create programs that
                            can be freely used by anyone in the world. That feels very good, and it's
                            great to get an email from someone saying my software helped them do something
                            useful.

                            > Now you have my lame jokes to counteract that. Sorry; this is what
                            > happens when I get bored.

                            I wouldn't call your post "lame" at all, but rather insightful.

                            Justin

                            --
                            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                            Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                            keys fesswise reversed sable.

                            Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                            justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
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