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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Digest Number 822

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  • Sharon Persley
    Greetings~ I am planning on attending the corination.... I am from the Middle Kingdom INdiana to be exact.... Iseabail Mac Tavish scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings~
      I am planning on attending the corination.... I am from the Middle Kingdom INdiana to be exact....
      Iseabail Mac Tavish

      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com wrote:


      There are 11 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Coronation...
      From: Willie Walter
      2. Re: Coronation...
      From: "Megan & Dave"
      3. Re: Coronation...
      From: Janet
      4. Re: Coronation...
      From: "Megan & Dave"
      5. Re: Coronation...
      From: suzanne vaughn
      6. keeping cool during the summer was A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer
      From: Veronica Young
      7. Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      8. Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      9. Re: Coronation...
      From: "christelle"
      10. Re: Re: Documentation, was: A&S questions was: Local Arts & ...
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      11. Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer
      From: bronwynmgn@...


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      Message: 1
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:16:19 -0800 (PST)
      From: Willie Walter
      Subject: Re: Coronation...

      --- Janet wrote:
      >
      > I was just thinking about the fact that I'm planning
      > to attend the Middle Kingdom Coronation in a few
      > weeks...and it came to me...are any of you all
      > planning to attend?

      No. However, I'll be at Atlantia's Coronation this
      coming Saturday, and at Aethelmearc's (Blackstone
      Raids) later in April. Anyone for either of those
      events?

      Peace,
      Grainne ingen Lugdach
      Shire of Roxbury Mill
      Atlantia



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      Message: 2
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:28:23 -0500
      From: "Megan & Dave"
      Subject: Re: Coronation...

      Very nearly our entire shire is going to turn out, in spite of the 3 hour drive. Our seneschal is getting knighted at morning court. :)

      Gwenhyfar Stuart
      Starleaf Gate, Middle
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Janet
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:33 PM
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Coronation...


      I was just thinking about the fact that I'm planning
      to attend the Middle Kingdom Coronation in a few
      weeks...and it came to me...are any of you all
      planning to attend?
      ~Janet
      Falcon's Quarry
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom




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      Message: 3
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:46:24 -0800 (PST)
      From: Janet
      Subject: Re: Coronation...

      Gwenhyfar,
      Congrats to your Seneschal...
      I think almost everyone in my shire is attending as
      well, but we're only 30 minutes away. Have a safe
      journey to the event.
      In service,
      Janet
      Falcon's Quarry
      (mundanely Lorain County)
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom





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      Message: 4
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:58:44 -0500
      From: "Megan & Dave"
      Subject: Re: Coronation...

      Thank you. We're fairly happy for him ;)

      I think it's a good thing for our shire. A lot (read most) of our members don't travel. The only event they ever go to is our own, which isn't quite the same as going to one to have fun rather than work. We even have a number of members coming out of retirement for this one. We'll be the ones in Blue and White. :)

      Gwenhyfar Stuart
      Starleaf Gate, Middle

      >
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Janet
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Coronation...


      Gwenhyfar,
      Congrats to your Seneschal...
      I think almost everyone in my shire is attending as
      well, but we're only 30 minutes away. Have a safe
      journey to the event.
      In service,
      Janet
      Falcon's Quarry
      (mundanely Lorain County)
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom





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      Message: 5
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:56:11 -0800 (PST)
      From: suzanne vaughn
      Subject: Re: Coronation...

      I'll be going to Coronation as well. One reason I would not miss it is that Knighting. Your Seneschal is a great guy and very deserving. It will be an honor to be able to cheer him one. I heard that most of your shire will be here and there are several I can't wait to see again.

      Suzanne

      Megan & Dave wrote:
      Thank you. We're fairly happy for him ;)

      I think it's a good thing for our shire. A lot (read most) of our members don't travel. The only event they ever go to is our own, which isn't quite the same as going to one to have fun rather than work. We even have a number of members coming out of retirement for this one. We'll be the ones in Blue and White. :)

      Gwenhyfar Stuart
      Starleaf Gate, Middle

      >
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Janet
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Coronation...


      Gwenhyfar,
      Congrats to your Seneschal...
      I think almost everyone in my shire is attending as
      well, but we're only 30 minutes away. Have a safe
      journey to the event.
      In service,
      Janet
      Falcon's Quarry
      (mundanely Lorain County)
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom





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      Message: 6
      Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:41:54 -0700
      From: Veronica Young
      Subject: keeping cool during the summer was A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer

      How hot does it get that a simple light wool over linen can't keep you
      cool? Or even a double linen. I know in parts of California it can
      get over 100 farenheight in Fairbanks Alaska it can get up to 90 during
      the summer and It not that hard to keep cool.

      I am asking because I do wonder at the different climes and how
      different people get and keep cool in their Garb. My typical get up is
      a linen look chemise with a dark blue full length wool tunic, perhaps
      with a shorter wool tunic over it. To keep cool in the summer up here
      I drink alot of water, walk around for a bit (builds a breaze under the
      skirts) and I try to keep to the shade.

      Lady Veronica
      Winters Gate....

      Looking forward to the days when keeping cool is the main concern vs.
      keeping warm


      > >There is not really an "early cutoff date." Most people generally go with
      > >the 'fall of Rome', however if you want to make and wear togas for SCA in
      > >the summer, then go ahead and report it. And likely no one will look
      > >twice at you. (Unless you do a really good job, then you'll likely be
      > >asked for help making them one. :) )
      >
      > *snort* We live in the Deep South. There's little period garb other than
      > a peplos that can take the summer heat and humidity.
      >



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      Message: 7
      Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:39:09 EST
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      Subject: Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer

      In a message dated 3/29/2005 11:46:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      lioness@... writes:

      <<#1: Say my children want me to make them Roman togas to wear this
      summer. As it is pre-1066 garb should I report them only if I sew them by
      hand? Does it matter if I got the instructions from a theatrical costuming
      guide or do I have to document historical sources for toga-making?>>

      You are making this way too complicated (although I understand why). You
      are making your children garb, Roman -style togas. Most likely it won't even
      be reported how you made them (although handsewing might be noted as it's
      unusual), or where you got the design, and you certainly do not have to provide
      documentation for an A&S officer's report, as what you are making doesn't even
      have to be documentable. My local A&S officer is totally anal about making
      her reports thorough and even she will just note "Brangwayna - handsewn linen
      chemise, continuing with embroidery on bliaut" and leave it at that. The
      date 1066 holds no significance whatsoever in terms of the SCA time frame, as
      the Early Medieval period is now accepted by historians as starting at the
      fall of the Roman Empire; in other words, what used to be Dark Ages is now Early
      Medieval, so it's fair game by even the strictest definition of the time
      frame of the SCA. And although I personally consider anything before the fall
      of Rome to really be pushing the envelope, there are enough people in the SCA
      that play Roman, even BC Roman, that it could be argued that Roman clothing
      is SCA-relevant.
      The only time you ever NEED to document anything is if you are entering the
      piece in a competition or exhibit that requires documentation to enter. My
      personal preference is that you should be able to document everything you make
      or use in the SCA (boy, would that be an ideal world), but that doesn't mean
      you need to have the sources on your person at every single moment, or even
      memorized; just means that you know where to find the info again.

      <<#2: We all know what constitutes a primary source for a document -- a
      date
      on when the actual document was written. But what constitutes a primary
      source documentation of a three-dimensional object, like a brooch?>>

      Not exactly. It's not the date that is the primary source; it's the
      document itself. The actual physical object is always the primary source,
      regardless of the media. An extant garment is a primary source, as is an extant
      brooch. A description of the object written during the time it was used (for
      example, the descriptions by contemporary writers of Elizabeth I's jewelry) is
      also a sort of primary source, but it's open to interpretation because it's
      being viewed through one person's eyes and described as they perceived it. I'm
      not sure if that would be primary or secondary, really. A modern
      description of an archaeological find is definitely secondary, though, even though the
      find itself is primary. Does that make any more sense? I still find the
      whole primary/secondary issue a bit confusing myself.

      << Bearing this in mind, if I wanted to embroider some of her design motifs
      on my SCA garb should I use only those few fragments that were known to
      survive from the
      16th Century or could I use some of the other 19th Century examples that
      employ the same motifs as are seen on surviving metal and stones objects
      from earlier periods?>>

      My personal choice is to use only design elements that I know were used on
      cloth/clothing during the time period in question, although I may be
      documenting the design elements not from cloth but from surviving period renderings
      such as details on sculpture or illuminations. It sounds like you might be
      dealing with a culture that carried over design motifs for a very long time in a
      variety of different media; on the other hand, those ancient design motifs
      might have been revived because they were found and admired at that time, and
      never have been used in between. During the early decades of the 20th
      century, there was a big fad for "Egyptian style" clothing and decoration, thanks to
      the fabulous finds that archaeologists were making at the time. But you
      can't use the fact that a particular piece of jewelry was worn in, say, the
      Third Dynasty and again in 1928 to extrapolate that that design element remained
      common for the several thousand years in between.

      Bearing that in mind, however, you can use whatever design elements you want
      that are plausibly medieval for SCA garb; it's up to you to define what you
      consider plausible. In other words, if the element you are looking at fits
      with what you see as reasonable documentation, go ahead and use it, whereas a
      design element such as, say, Hopi sand painting styles probably wouldn't have
      a parallel and wouldn't be appropriate. Considering, of course, that I've
      seen people use everything including Marvin the Martian and Viking longboats
      surrounded by palm trees and clearly south Pacific island geography as
      embellishments for their garb, with no comment for the most part other than laughter
      or amusement, you can really use pretty much whatever you want.

      Mind you, I appreciate your effort to keep what you are doing as accurate as
      possible, and I encourage you to continue with that; I just wanted you to
      understand that you are doing so because you choose to and not because the SCA
      requires you to do so.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      Message: 8
      Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:55:09 EST
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      Subject: Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer

      In a message dated 3/29/2005 3:27:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      lioness@... writes:

      <extend to the collection of Medieval artifacts. I don't work for a museum
      or other archival collection. >>

      Photographs, which may be available in books or online, or by contacting the
      museum and asking for them. Often museums have photographs available of
      their collection pieces, or will take specific ones, perhaps for a fee, for
      someone who is researching the object.

      << The one occasion I got to see a museum
      exhibit of Etruscan jewelry was memorable for both myself and the museum in
      that I caused traffic snarls in the exhibition room, left nose prints over
      all the cases, set off every proximity alarm they had and finally ended up
      with a personal security guard trailing dh and I as we compared
      notes. ("Oh look, the third-outermost row of all the brooches is always
      "X"s!")>>

      This, by the way, is entirely unexceptional when SCAdians descend on a
      museum. You can track them around the place by the proximity alarms going off. I
      remember one memorable trip to the Cloisters in New York when my husband and
      a friend got down on the floor and almost crawled under a wrought iron
      candelabra to see how the legs were attached...I also know of someone who actually
      grabbed a corner of a tapestry and flipped it over to see the colors and
      work on the back.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      Message: 9
      Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:53:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
      From: "christelle"
      Subject: Re: Coronation...


      I'll be going to the same in Trimaris memorial weekend
      Christelle
      Castlemere
      Trimaris

      -------Original Message-------

      From: Janet
      Date: 03/29/05 21:34:04
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Coronation...

      I was just thinking about the fact that I'm planning
      to attend the Middle Kingdom Coronation in a few
      weeks...and it came to me...are any of you all
      planning to attend?
      ~Janet
      Falcon's Quarry
      North Oaken
      Middle Kingdom




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      Message: 10
      Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:27:33 EST
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      Subject: Re: Re: Documentation, was: A&S questions was: Local Arts & ...

      In a message dated 3/29/2005 5:56:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      oisswafford@... writes:

      <making, clothing construction, etc... >>

      By looking, primarily, at how it was done in the time period you are trying
      to recreate. Start with the overall look - what are the lines of the
      garments, where is jewelry placed or not placed, is there decoration that could be
      embroidery or not and where?
      From there, you start getting into more details, such as what fabrics and
      fibers were available at that time and place, trying to find extant examples
      online or in books or museums, look for seam lines to figure out how things were
      constructed, etc.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      Message: 11
      Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:37:16 EST
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      Subject: Re: A&S questions was: Local Arts & Sciences Officer

      In a message dated 3/29/2005 7:43:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      lioness@... writes:

      <<*snort* We live in the Deep South. There's little period garb other than
      a peplos that can take the summer heat and humidity.>>

      I've never lived in the deep south, but south central Pennsylvania as well
      as the Pennsic area are known for the three H's - hazy hot and humid. It's
      not unusual to have temperatures and humidities both in the 90s, and we've had
      heat indexes between 110 and 120 for several days in a row at Pennsic.
      Standard 12th or 14th century English clothing, done in linen or tropical
      weight wool, are usually quite comfortable in these temperatures. My husband's
      worked all day on the battlefield at Pennsic wearing a linen undertunic,
      100% wool overtunic or a linen overtunic, linen braies, and linen hose rolled
      down to the knee, with a white linen coif and sometimes his hood rolled as a
      chaperone. I'm usually comfortable in a linen chemise and gown with some sort
      of linen headcovering that doesn't wrap around my neck, although I do
      sometimes need to forgo the chemise layer.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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