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Re: [SCA Newcomers] A question about belt favors.....

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  • JolieH2000@AOL.com
    Greeting on to the list! I have been made Chateilane of my household (not bad for such a newbie as I).....and I thought it might be a cool thing that I have
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 7, 2005
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      Greeting on to the list!

      I have been made Chateilane of my household (not bad for such a newbie as
      I).....and I thought it might be a cool thing that I have belt favors made so
      that the head of my household could hand them out to the rest of us and our
      guests in our encampment at Estrella.

      We don't have a device for our household as of such....but Lord Garrek does.
      Could I make belt favors that have the feel of his design but not his
      actual device?

      Many thanks in advance for all and any input and ideas!

      Jolie' La Rue of House Shadowdale
      Kingdom of Caid


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Olga
      Jolie, Has your question about belt favors been answered on or off list yet? I know of at least 2 groups that could give you a disection of the answer. One is
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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        Jolie,

        Has your question about belt favors been answered on or off list yet?
        I know of at least 2 groups that could give you a disection of the
        answer.

        One is the scaheralds group at
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca_heralds/?yguid=209823921

        The other is another sca new person's group at
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-newbie/?yguid=209823921
        (reccomended highly for this question).

        I don't know the answer but I'm leaning towards guessing that no it
        would be inappropriate unless specifically registered and that the
        owner of the main device (that you want have a similar graphic to)
        would need to be involved. But I couldn't tell you why, because I
        just don't know that much. And if I am mistaken, please somebody
        correct me.

        Best Wishes on your search!

        Olga








        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, JolieH2000@A... wrote:
        > Greeting on to the list!
        >
        > I have been made Chateilane of my household (not bad for such a
        newbie as
        > I).....and I thought it might be a cool thing that I have belt
        favors made so
        > that the head of my household could hand them out to the rest of us
        and our
        > guests in our encampment at Estrella.
        >
        > We don't have a device for our household as of such....but Lord
        Garrek does.
        > Could I make belt favors that have the feel of his design but not
        his
        > actual device?
        >
        > Many thanks in advance for all and any input and ideas!
        >
        > Jolie' La Rue of House Shadowdale
        > Kingdom of Caid
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:56:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, monkeygirl@harbornet.com writes:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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          In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:56:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          monkeygirl@... writes:

          <<I don't know the answer but I'm leaning towards guessing that no it
          would be inappropriate unless specifically registered and that the
          owner of the main device (that you want have a similar graphic to)
          would need to be involved. But I couldn't tell you why, because I
          just don't know that much. And if I am mistaken, please somebody
          correct me.>>

          I was hoping for one of the heralds to answer...
          No, you can use unregistered heraldry, but of course if someone has the same
          or very similar design registered and complains about it, you really need to
          stop immediately, and that would be a waste of work in making up a whole
          bunch of favors. So doing ones for a whole group might be a problem. Certainly
          the person who owns the main device should be consulted and, if you haven't
          already done so, you might want to find out if the reason the group doesn't
          have a badge and favors already is simply because they don't want them or
          don't find a need for them; if you were to go ahead and make them up without
          finding out if people would actually use them, then a) you've wasted the time and
          effort and b) might be perceived as a "pushy new person trying to change
          things she doesn't know anything about" - know what I mean?
          I know my husband made a bunch of tabards for our household and the only one
          that ever got used on a regular basis was the one he made for the baby of
          the clan chief as sort of a "If lost, please return here" sign. The others
          have been used very rarely at Pennsic and most of us (even me) routinely forget
          that we have them.


          Brangwayna Morgan
          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
          Lancaster, PA


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        • JolieH2000@AOL.com
          In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:50:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bronwynmgn@aol.com writes: , you might want to find out if the reason the group doesn t have
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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            In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:50:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            bronwynmgn@... writes:

            , you might want to find out if the reason the group doesn't
            have a badge and favors already is simply because they don't want them or
            don't find a need for them; if you were to go ahead and make them up without

            finding out if people would actually use them, then a) you've wasted the
            time and
            effort and b) might be perceived as a "pushy new person trying to change
            things she doesn't know anything about" - know what I mean?




            Well, I know the reason we don't have a badge or favor, is because we just
            decided as of last Estrella that we were a household. I just wanted to do
            something special for us and for the guests of our encampment. We haven't come
            up with a device for our household.

            And no, I don't know what you mean about being a pushy new person but that
            might be because I am a pushy new person to the SCA and can't quite figure out
            the rules. Remember, Baron Tristen Von Halstern had all sorts of problems
            with my outspoken way of being at Pennsic this year. I still haven't figured
            out what he means by shooting off my mouth.

            Lucky for me, the head of my household is also a rennie.

            So, where can I find out what I can do, and not just what I can't do??

            Many thanks in advance.




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          • Starling Mandrill
            If you do your best with good intentions and remember that you will never be able to please all the people all of the time don t beat yourself up over it THIS
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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              If you do your best with good intentions and remember that you will never be able to please all the people all of the time don't beat yourself up over it THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.! *****Your Lady Autumn Starling.*****
              JolieH2000@... wrote:
              In a message dated 1/9/2005 5:50:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
              bronwynmgn@... writes:

              , you might want to find out if the reason the group doesn't
              have a badge and favors already is simply because they don't want them or
              don't find a need for them; if you were to go ahead and make them up without

              finding out if people would actually use them, then a) you've wasted the
              time and
              effort and b) might be perceived as a "pushy new person trying to change
              things she doesn't know anything about" - know what I mean?




              Well, I know the reason we don't have a badge or favor, is because we just
              decided as of last Estrella that we were a household. I just wanted to do
              something special for us and for the guests of our encampment. We haven't come
              up with a device for our household.

              And no, I don't know what you mean about being a pushy new person but that
              might be because I am a pushy new person to the SCA and can't quite figure out
              the rules. Remember, Baron Tristen Von Halstern had all sorts of problems
              with my outspoken way of being at Pennsic this year. I still haven't figured
              out what he means by shooting off my mouth.

              Lucky for me, the head of my household is also a rennie.

              So, where can I find out what I can do, and not just what I can't do??

              Many thanks in advance.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, JolieH2000@AOL.com writes:
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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                In a message dated 1/9/2005 3:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                JolieH2000@... writes:

                <<Well, I know the reason we don't have a badge or favor, is because we just

                decided as of last Estrella that we were a household. I just wanted to do
                something special for us and for the guests of our encampment. We haven't
                come
                up with a device for our household.>>

                Well, see, I didn't know that your household was that new. So it may be
                simply that a) no one has thought of doing this yet, b) nobody really knows how
                to get a device, or c)any number of other things coming first. I think it
                would be a great idea to come up with some sort of indicator for your
                household. Remember that it does not have to technically be a device or arms on a
                favor; it could be a cast pewter pin, or a small jewel, or a thin belt worn as a
                garter or on a sleeve, etc.

                <<And no, I don't know what you mean about being a pushy new person but that

                might be because I am a pushy new person to the SCA and can't quite figure
                out
                the rules. Remember, Baron Tristen Von Halstern had all sorts of problems
                with my outspoken way of being at Pennsic this year. I still haven't
                figured
                out what he means by shooting off my mouth.>>

                Had you been joining an older household where they'd already been through
                the "do we want a device" discussion and decided they didn't, and you as a
                newcomer went out on your own and made one up for them and made things for them
                to wear with it and presented them as a done deal without asking anyone about
                it, it would be very easy for the older members to feel that you were trying
                to make the household follow your own image of what a household should be,
                regardless of what the rest of the household might want to be. Now do you see
                what I mean?

                <<So, where can I find out what I can do, and not just what I can't do??>>

                My first recommendation would still be to talk to the head of the household
                and the rest of the household and see if they want something like this, and
                how formal they want it to be. A household is basically a family; think about
                whether you would prefer some random family member of yours to show up with,
                say, fluorescent orange and lime green baseball caps and say "Now we're all
                going to wear these when we go anywhere so everybody knows we're a family",
                or if you prefer that person to say ahead of time, "What do you think about all
                of us having some kind of family T-shirt or something to wear when we go
                here? What do you think would be best?"

                Then, if a belt favor is what you all like, talk to a herald and have them
                quick check the design to see if it's clear of conflict. You can use it
                unregistered, but by having the herald check it first, you minimize the
                possibilities of having to come up with something else when you've already made a
                bunch. It's also the first step if the household decides they'd really like to
                have a badge, and then you kill two birds with one stone.

                Alternatively, think of some other symbol for the group. While belt favors
                are the most common way of showing affiliation in the SCA, they are far from
                the only possible or only period way, and many of the alternatives don't fall
                under the heraldry rules at all. As an example, it used to be common for
                people who frequented the rec.org.sca board (the Rialto) to wear a small piece
                of netting somewhere on their person (since they knew each other from "the
                net"). I made some other suggestions above.




                Brangwayna Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JolieH2000@AOL.com
                Thank you for the input. I have an idea now for something to do as a belt favor that I can still do as a surprize and not get anyone or myself in any
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 9, 2005
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                  Thank you for the input. I have an idea now for something to do as a belt
                  favor that I can still do as a surprize and not get anyone or myself in any
                  trouble. I am going to hem some fabric and have our household name sewn on it
                  with Estrella...whatever number that it is of Estrella with a pewter pin in
                  the middle.

                  My plan is to hand them to the head of my household at our breakfast
                  household meeting Friday morning when all of us are there so he can pass them out to
                  the rest of the household and our guests as a remembrance of this Estrella.
                  Lord Garrek will love it that he didn't think of it but it was done for him
                  to do.

                  And I am going to put coming up with a device for our household as an agenda
                  for our ending meeting of Monday morning before we tear down and head for
                  home.

                  Many thanks,

                  Jolie'
                  House Shadowdale
                  Kingdom of Caid


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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