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garb fabric

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  • yoursmalltowngirl@hotmail.com
    Hi! My name is Jessica and while i haven t yet joined the SCA, i intend to get involved through a friend of mine. First, however, i m making my attempt at
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 3, 2005
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      Hi! My name is Jessica and while i haven't yet joined the SCA, i
      intend to get involved through a friend of mine. First, however, i'm
      making my "attempt" at medieval garb.

      My question is this: is heavy, satin (i think it's crepe-backed)
      okay? i picked up 17 yards of this stuff at a garage sale for $17,
      so i'd really like to use it. i've been told that the dull side
      would be more "period". While i don't want to be offensively modern,
      i think the dull side is rather ugly (especially since i'm dying
      it). Personally, i don't see a big difference between silk and this
      satin in appearance, but i'm not an expert.

      Also, i intend to make a gown from around the 12th or 13th century,
      so would this make a difference?

      Thank you!!
    • night_travler
      Hello Jessica - Depending on which SCA group you join - sometimes does not matter what type of fabric you wear just as long as it looks good. Remember it is
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 5, 2005
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        Hello Jessica -
        Depending on which SCA group you join - sometimes does not matter
        what type of fabric you wear just as long as it looks good.
        Remember it is your character or persona and you can look however you
        want. SCA are minor lords, not really made up of pesants.
        Somet of the best way to verify is to do the following -

        1. Who or what is your persona ?
        2. What time period ?
        3. From what location is your persona from ?

        Then you can research the fabrics from those time periods.
        YOu will find that you may not find the exact fabric, because
        it just is not made anymore - but cottons, silks, and other
        basics are good -

        Also do a search for GARB on the net and this may help you too.


        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, yoursmalltowngirl@h... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi! My name is Jessica and while i haven't yet joined the SCA, i
        > intend to get involved through a friend of mine. First, however,
        i'm
        > making my "attempt" at medieval garb.
        >
        > My question is this: is heavy, satin (i think it's crepe-backed)
        > okay? i picked up 17 yards of this stuff at a garage sale for $17,
        > so i'd really like to use it. i've been told that the dull side
        > would be more "period". While i don't want to be offensively
        modern,
        > i think the dull side is rather ugly (especially since i'm dying
        > it). Personally, i don't see a big difference between silk and
        this
        > satin in appearance, but i'm not an expert.
        >
        > Also, i intend to make a gown from around the 12th or 13th century,
        > so would this make a difference?
        >
        > Thank you!!
      • violinbunny
        Hurray and welcome jessica!!! First off all what color is the satin? And what color and how are you planning to dye it??? Then consider besides time period
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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          Hurray and welcome jessica!!!

          First off all what color is the satin? And what color and how are you
          planning to dye it??? Then consider besides time period what country
          you want to make your garb from. There are all sorts of differant
          clothing going on in the 12 and 13th centruy depending on what counrty
          you want to portray. So surf the web and see what you like be it
          english, french, spanish, russian....the list goes on and on.

          And if you really don't like the dull side...well don't use it. Use
          the side you like you can always make it more period with the proper
          trims and embroidery....just make sure your happy with it because your
          the one wearing it....I make just about all of my own garb and every
          now and then if i get a deal on synthetic fabric i'll use it...its not
          like anyone is going to point you out at an event and scream "hey
          thats not period!!!" remember that the "C" in SCA stands for creative.
          so be creative and do your best and everyone will love you just for
          trying!!!

          -Nicole
          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, yoursmalltowngirl@h... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi! My name is Jessica and while i haven't yet joined the SCA, i
          > intend to get involved through a friend of mine. First, however, i'm
          > making my "attempt" at medieval garb.
          >
          > My question is this: is heavy, satin (i think it's crepe-backed)
          > okay? i picked up 17 yards of this stuff at a garage sale for $17,
          > so i'd really like to use it. i've been told that the dull side
          > would be more "period". While i don't want to be offensively modern,
          > i think the dull side is rather ugly (especially since i'm dying
          > it). Personally, i don't see a big difference between silk and this
          > satin in appearance, but i'm not an expert.
          >
          > Also, i intend to make a gown from around the 12th or 13th century,
          > so would this make a difference?
          >
          > Thank you!!
        • Jessica Marie
          Nicole, Thank you so much for your input!! I m hoping to move next month to be with my boyfriend(who s active in the SCA), but in the meantime it s so nice to
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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            Nicole,

            Thank you so much for your input!! I'm hoping to move next month to be with
            my boyfriend(who's active in the SCA), but in the meantime it's so nice to
            have another woman to bounce things off of!

            My satin is currently light blue (darker on the crepe side, very pale on the
            side with a sheen). I experimented dying a small piece of the satin with
            RIT dye in crimson, and it took very well, so i'm hoping to combine crimson
            and wine to come up with a burgundy shade (crossing my fingers on that).

            As for country, I've chosen John William Waterhouse's painting of a Ophelia
            as my inspiration, so I suppose the gown is more English than anything. I'm
            not yet drawn to one country more than another, but I fell in love with the
            style of that gown.

            Since I'm away from a sewing machine at the moment, a seamstress is helping
            me out, but any advice on dying or trims would be gratefully received!

            Blessed be,
            jessica


            ________________________________________
            "The misuse of language induces evil in the soul."
            -- Socrates




            >From: "violinbunny" <violinbunny@...>
            >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            >To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: garb fabric
            >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:06:25 -0000
            >
            >
            >
            >Hurray and welcome jessica!!!
            >
            >First off all what color is the satin? And what color and how are you
            >planning to dye it??? Then consider besides time period what country
            >you want to make your garb from. There are all sorts of differant
            >clothing going on in the 12 and 13th centruy depending on what counrty
            >you want to portray. So surf the web and see what you like be it
            >english, french, spanish, russian....the list goes on and on.
            >
            >And if you really don't like the dull side...well don't use it. Use
            >the side you like you can always make it more period with the proper
            >trims and embroidery....just make sure your happy with it because your
            >the one wearing it....I make just about all of my own garb and every
            >now and then if i get a deal on synthetic fabric i'll use it...its not
            >like anyone is going to point you out at an event and scream "hey
            >thats not period!!!" remember that the "C" in SCA stands for creative.
            > so be creative and do your best and everyone will love you just for
            >trying!!!
            >
            >-Nicole
            >--- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, yoursmalltowngirl@h... wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi! My name is Jessica and while i haven't yet joined the SCA, i
            > > intend to get involved through a friend of mine. First, however, i'm
            > > making my "attempt" at medieval garb.
            > >
            > > My question is this: is heavy, satin (i think it's crepe-backed)
            > > okay? i picked up 17 yards of this stuff at a garage sale for $17,
            > > so i'd really like to use it. i've been told that the dull side
            > > would be more "period". While i don't want to be offensively modern,
            > > i think the dull side is rather ugly (especially since i'm dying
            > > it). Personally, i don't see a big difference between silk and this
            > > satin in appearance, but i'm not an expert.
            > >
            > > Also, i intend to make a gown from around the 12th or 13th century,
            > > so would this make a difference?
            > >
            > > Thank you!!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Alison Choyce
            Greetings Jessica and welcome!
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 28, 2005
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              Greetings Jessica and welcome!



              <<My satin is currently light blue (darker on the crepe side, very pale on the
              side with a sheen). I experimented dying a small piece of the satin with
              RIT dye in crimson, and it took very well, so i'm hoping to combine crimson
              and wine to come up with a burgundy shade (crossing my fingers on that).>>

              I have not had much experience with dying, so I will leave that topic alone, except to say good luck.



              <<As for country, I've chosen John William Waterhouse's painting of a Ophelia
              as my inspiration, so I suppose the gown is more English than anything. >>

              I am familiar with Waterhouse, but could not bring to mind that particular work, so I googled it. It's actually quite lovely and has not been too "Victorianized" That gown is essentially a cotehardie or "gothic fitted dress." There is a red front laced underdress, a blue overdress with a gold colored lining, and a gold border at the hem and a slight flaring of the sleeve just below the elbow. Quite pretty!

              You asked about trims. During the time the cotehardie was worn, there was not much applied to the garment as trim. I would avoid putting trim around the neckline. For the pretty motif at the hem, if you are able to purchase more fabric, I would look for a pretty brocade. The beauty of these gowns is in their fluid lines, and their beautiful colors. Embroidery (or trim) was applied to things like purses, hoods, cloaks, etc. Examples of trim to the garment itself are rare.

              These gowns were very popular in both Engand and France during the 14th century. I have seen artwork of Italian cotehardies as well. You have your choice of countries with this style gown, but this would be mostly 14th century into early 15th century. You might enjoy looking at the the "Tres Riche Heures of Jean Duc de Berry," particularly the following have beautiful gowns.
              March http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/april.jpg
              April http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/may.jpg
              August http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg

              Try Marcele de Montsegur's website www.cottesimple.com for great step by step photo instructions on how to make a "gothic fitted dress."

              Have fun and good luck,
              Alison Wodehalle, Shire of Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • HI_it_is_me@yahoo.com
              Ok, so I have done a small pile of research recently into period fabrics since I ve been making all my own garb (and much of my friends as well). Satin is in
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 8, 2005
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                Ok, so I have done a small pile of research recently into period
                fabrics since I've been making all my own garb (and much of my
                friends' as well). Satin is in fact period to the SCA time frame....if
                it is in fact made of natural fiber (usually silk). If I remember
                correctly it was used from the 12th century on...maybe the 13th or so,
                I can't remember exactly because I have so many dates and fabrics
                running around in my head. So, as long as your personna isn't a 10th
                century something or another, then the satin shouldn't be a problem.
                The biggest concern with using Satin is that it would have been made
                from silk which wasn't exactly cheep, so most people short of the
                really wealthy wouldn't have had the cash to buy it. Some groups are
                picky about this and others aren't...so it all depends. (I just made a
                12th century Frankish style dress out of some great olive green satin
                that I got off a clearance rack at walmart for $1 a yard...and to my
                surprise I think it's actually made from natural fibers since it burns
                instead of melts when it touches flame.) Anyway, I hope this helps...
              • Alison Choyce
                ... From: HI_it_is_me@yahoo.com Yes, satin is a period weave.
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 8, 2005
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: HI_it_is_me@...

                  << Satin is in fact period to the SCA time frame.>>

                  Yes, satin is a period weave.

                  <<if it is in fact made of natural fiber (usually silk).>>

                  Silk, linen, and wool were all made into satin. Silk makes the prettiest satin. And of course silk dyes into more brilliant colors than you can get with wool or linen.

                  <<(I just made a 12th century Frankish style dress out of some great olive green satin
                  that I got off a clearance rack at walmart for $1 a yard...and to my
                  surprise I think it's actually made from natural fibers since it burns
                  instead of melts when it touches flame.) >>

                  Sounds like you did well. Your dress must be beautiful in that color. The problem with using polyester or nylon is that 1) you would be uncomfortable wearing it, especially in hot weather. It does not breathe. And 2) it can be dangerous if you are cooking or are sitting close to a campfire, because if it catches fire you are more likely to be injured since it will keep burning. Wool silk and linen do not tend to continue to burn when they are pulled away from the flame. 3) Finally, if it is important to you be as accurate as you can be, then you would want to use what would have been available to your persona. At least to the extent it's available to us.

                  Most people prefer not to use cotton in part because it was not commonly used, was more expensive than silk where it was available, and because it is less comfortable to wear than silk or lightweight wool in the heat. But to get good brocades most people overlook those problems and opt for cotton since most re-enactors cannot afford silk brocade, and it is still a natural fiber.

                  In service,
                  Alison Wodehalle
                  Shire of Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jessica Marie
                  Thanks so much to all of you for expanding my fabric knowledge! My fabric is now officially dyed, and i m happy with the result. RIT Dye recommends the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 8, 2005
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                    Thanks so much to all of you for expanding my fabric knowledge! My fabric
                    is now officially dyed, and i'm happy with the result. RIT Dye recommends
                    the fabrics 50% or more polyester not be dyed. Does anyone know why? i
                    went ahead, though i'm still not sure about the fabric's content. i did
                    find an interesting site regarding the burn test:

                    http://www.fabriclink.com/Burntest.html

                    i'm no scientist; it seems like my fabric could be silk...or acetate...but
                    probably just some bizarre blend of man-made fibers.

                    So as my overdress is faux silk-satin, could anyone recommend a fabric for
                    an underdress? i have some white cotton, which doesn't seem appropriate,
                    but if i buy silk, that's a *lot* of sumptuous fabric...and i don't want it
                    to 'show-up' my satin overdress. Would linen work? i've gotten mixed
                    messages as to whether the underdress was the sole undergarment for a
                    cotehardie, so i'm afraid i'm grasping at straws and needing to do a little
                    more research. Learning, slowly but surely!

                    Blessed be,
                    jessica


                    ________________________________________
                    "The misuse of language induces evil in the soul."
                    -- Socrates




                    >From: "Alison Choyce" <choyce@...>
                    >Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: garb fabric
                    >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:25:07 -0500
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: HI_it_is_me@...
                    >
                    ><< Satin is in fact period to the SCA time frame.>>
                    >
                    >Yes, satin is a period weave.
                    >
                    ><<if it is in fact made of natural fiber (usually silk).>>
                    >
                    >Silk, linen, and wool were all made into satin. Silk makes the prettiest
                    >satin. And of course silk dyes into more brilliant colors than you can get
                    >with wool or linen.
                    >
                    ><<(I just made a 12th century Frankish style dress out of some great olive
                    >green satin
                    >that I got off a clearance rack at walmart for $1 a yard...and to my
                    >surprise I think it's actually made from natural fibers since it burns
                    >instead of melts when it touches flame.) >>
                    >
                    >Sounds like you did well. Your dress must be beautiful in that color. The
                    >problem with using polyester or nylon is that 1) you would be uncomfortable
                    >wearing it, especially in hot weather. It does not breathe. And 2) it can
                    >be dangerous if you are cooking or are sitting close to a campfire, because
                    >if it catches fire you are more likely to be injured since it will keep
                    >burning. Wool silk and linen do not tend to continue to burn when they are
                    >pulled away from the flame. 3) Finally, if it is important to you be as
                    >accurate as you can be, then you would want to use what would have been
                    >available to your persona. At least to the extent it's available to us.
                    >
                    >Most people prefer not to use cotton in part because it was not commonly
                    >used, was more expensive than silk where it was available, and because it
                    >is less comfortable to wear than silk or lightweight wool in the heat. But
                    >to get good brocades most people overlook those problems and opt for cotton
                    >since most re-enactors cannot afford silk brocade, and it is still a
                    >natural fiber.
                    >
                    >In service,
                    >Alison Wodehalle
                    >Shire of Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Alison Choyce
                    Quick answer is that polyester isn t created to take dye. Your
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 9, 2005
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                      <<RIT Dye recommends
                      the fabrics 50% or more polyester not be dyed. Does anyone know why? >>

                      Quick answer is that polyester isn't created to take dye. Your satin may be rayon which will dye well.


                      In service,
                      Alison Wodehalle
                      Shire of Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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