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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Fabric questions

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

      <<only worry about "periodness" of fabric if you're entering the
      garment in Competition.>>

      <<As long as you are not going to try to put this in a competion for
      authentisity almost any fabric will do.>>

      Several people have made this comment in this thread, and it perturbs me.

      Is not the SCA an "educational" organization? Are we not supposed to be
      educating people about the Middle Ages and Renaissance?

      I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to find some of
      the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may well be
      needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if you can
      find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used cheap fabrics
      myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to using only
      period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford them and limit
      the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has been a reason;
      I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?

      Because I have learned far more about life in the Middle Ages by sticking to
      the period options. I've learned why they made clothing the way they did and
      why they wore it the way they wore it and what it did for them. I've learned
      that clothing made to period patterns using the correct period materials is
      FAR more comfortable, long-wearing, and suited to our many camping events with
      their varying weather than any modern fabric could be.

      We've already talked about the comfort of natural fibers over synthetics.
      When you make it to proper period patterns, it's easier to put together,
      generally uses less fabric, and works better for active movement. My wool and linen
      tunics have lasted for many years - up to 10 in some cases - without needing
      repairs at all; when I was wearing polycotton and cotton gauze and old
      bedsheets I was constantly having to restitch seams that had come out and repair tears
      and wear holes. For hot events, linen cannot be beaten as a comfort fabric,
      and when it gets cold at night, or when you have a couple of days that are 50
      degrees and raining, a good wool tunic over the linen underdress will keep you
      comfortable and cozy warm and DRY for the most part. No need to run around
      in wet, clingy polycotton or see through gauze, wrapped in a cloak and
      shivering. Go about your business in a heavy wool tunic and hood and wool socks and
      you'll be comfortable all day long, without the cloak in your way. And
      certainly no need for plastic ponchos or trashbags over your clothes, as I've seen at
      any number of events.

      It makes sense that it should work that way; after all, medieval and
      renaissance people didn't have indoor climate control or modern waterproof materials
      (and wool works better than a rubberized or plastic raincoat anyway), and they
      lived far more in the weather than we do; most of us shuttle back and forth
      between our houses, offices, and cars and hardly are out in the weather. Why
      do we insist that they were always miserable in bad (or good, for that matter)
      weather? Because we make our "medieval" clothes out of the wrong stuff (stuff
      that was designed for use in climate-controlled conditions) and then complain
      when it doesn't keep us comfortable when we're out in real weather.

      I don't encourage people to use period fabric because they can win
      competitions by using it. I encourage its use because it is more practical for what
      we're doing in the long run. What good is having 10 outfits made of cheap fabric
      off the dollar-a-yard table and always going home complaining about how
      uncomfortable you were at the event and how many repairs you need to make, when you
      can have two made of the correct fabrics and be comfortable?

      And no, I don't dry clean my linen and wool outfits. The linen goes in the
      washer and dryer or hangs out to dry and the only thing I ever iron is my
      veils; the wool gets aired out and brushed off (something my 80+ year old neighbors
      still do with their own wool coats, skirts and suits) unless it really needs
      washed and then it goes in the washer in cold water and hangs to dry.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tori T
      I have a problem with this last message. some of the things said, yes were true. BUT there are people like myself who work full time just to be broke. And I m
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        I have a problem with this last message. some of the things said, yes were true. BUT there are people like myself who work full time just to be broke. And I'm not one of those people who buys wants over needs. Some times people have to use old bed sheets and dollar-a-yard fabric. I am proud to say I am one of them. I have never yet said "oh that dress was so uncomfortable" or "ugh, another repair I have to make". If you do these things corectly, you wont be uncomfortable or have to make repairs all the time. I just got done making another dress for myself and my dad said "thats an old sheet?!?". Yes it was and it is THE most comfortable, best looking dress I have made. So dont go ragging on people and saying it's wrong to use cheeper fabric and old sheets just because we cant all have money like you. if it's period (which cotton is) and it's comfortable and warm (my first dress and first event was made with cotton and I stayed way warm with 4 inches of snow on the ground with NO
        cloak) then wear it!

        Antonia



        bronwynmgn@... wrote: In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

        <<only worry about "periodness" of fabric if you're entering the
        garment in Competition.>>

        <<As long as you are not going to try to put this in a competion for
        authentisity almost any fabric will do.>>

        Several people have made this comment in this thread, and it perturbs me.

        Is not the SCA an "educational" organization? Are we not supposed to be
        educating people about the Middle Ages and Renaissance?

        I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to find some of
        the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may well be
        needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if you can
        find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used cheap fabrics
        myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to using only
        period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford them and limit
        the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has been a reason;
        I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?

        Because I have learned far more about life in the Middle Ages by sticking to
        the period options. I've learned why they made clothing the way they did and
        why they wore it the way they wore it and what it did for them. I've learned
        that clothing made to period patterns using the correct period materials is
        FAR more comfortable, long-wearing, and suited to our many camping events with
        their varying weather than any modern fabric could be.

        We've already talked about the comfort of natural fibers over synthetics.
        When you make it to proper period patterns, it's easier to put together,
        generally uses less fabric, and works better for active movement. My wool and linen
        tunics have lasted for many years - up to 10 in some cases - without needing
        repairs at all; when I was wearing polycotton and cotton gauze and old
        bedsheets I was constantly having to restitch seams that had come out and repair tears
        and wear holes. For hot events, linen cannot be beaten as a comfort fabric,
        and when it gets cold at night, or when you have a couple of days that are 50
        degrees and raining, a good wool tunic over the linen underdress will keep you
        comfortable and cozy warm and DRY for the most part. No need to run around
        in wet, clingy polycotton or see through gauze, wrapped in a cloak and
        shivering. Go about your business in a heavy wool tunic and hood and wool socks and
        you'll be comfortable all day long, without the cloak in your way. And
        certainly no need for plastic ponchos or trashbags over your clothes, as I've seen at
        any number of events.

        It makes sense that it should work that way; after all, medieval and
        renaissance people didn't have indoor climate control or modern waterproof materials
        (and wool works better than a rubberized or plastic raincoat anyway), and they
        lived far more in the weather than we do; most of us shuttle back and forth
        between our houses, offices, and cars and hardly are out in the weather. Why
        do we insist that they were always miserable in bad (or good, for that matter)
        weather? Because we make our "medieval" clothes out of the wrong stuff (stuff
        that was designed for use in climate-controlled conditions) and then complain
        when it doesn't keep us comfortable when we're out in real weather.

        I don't encourage people to use period fabric because they can win
        competitions by using it. I encourage its use because it is more practical for what
        we're doing in the long run. What good is having 10 outfits made of cheap fabric
        off the dollar-a-yard table and always going home complaining about how
        uncomfortable you were at the event and how many repairs you need to make, when you
        can have two made of the correct fabrics and be comfortable?

        And no, I don't dry clean my linen and wool outfits. The linen goes in the
        washer and dryer or hangs out to dry and the only thing I ever iron is my
        veils; the wool gets aired out and brushed off (something my 80+ year old neighbors
        still do with their own wool coats, skirts and suits) unless it really needs
        washed and then it goes in the washer in cold water and hangs to dry.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      • Kirianna
        I agree.... And, you can still learn about life in the Middle Ages while wearing cotton too! ~Kirianna ... -- www.jackntracie.com Live, and learn... [Non-text
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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          I agree....

          And, you can still learn about life in the Middle Ages while wearing
          cotton too!

          ~Kirianna

          tori T wrote:

          >I have a problem with this last message. some of the things said, yes were true. BUT there are people like myself who work full time just to be broke. And I'm not one of those people who buys wants over needs. Some times people have to use old bed sheets and dollar-a-yard fabric. I am proud to say I am one of them. I have never yet said "oh that dress was so uncomfortable" or "ugh, another repair I have to make". If you do these things corectly, you wont be uncomfortable or have to make repairs all the time. I just got done making another dress for myself and my dad said "thats an old sheet?!?". Yes it was and it is THE most comfortable, best looking dress I have made. So dont go ragging on people and saying it's wrong to use cheeper fabric and old sheets just because we cant all have money like you. if it's period (which cotton is) and it's comfortable and warm (my first dress and first event was made with cotton and I stayed way warm with 4 inches of snow on the ground with NO
          > cloak) then wear it!
          >
          >Antonia
          >
          >
          >
          >bronwynmgn@... wrote: In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          >scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
          >
          ><<only worry about "periodness" of fabric if you're entering the
          >garment in Competition.>>
          >
          ><<As long as you are not going to try to put this in a competion for
          >authentisity almost any fabric will do.>>
          >
          >Several people have made this comment in this thread, and it perturbs me.
          >
          >Is not the SCA an "educational" organization? Are we not supposed to be
          >educating people about the Middle Ages and Renaissance?
          >
          >I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to find some of
          >the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may well be
          >needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if you can
          >find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used cheap fabrics
          >myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to using only
          >period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford them and limit
          >the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has been a reason;
          >I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?
          >
          >Because I have learned far more about life in the Middle Ages by sticking to
          >the period options. I've learned why they made clothing the way they did and
          >why they wore it the way they wore it and what it did for them. I've learned
          >that clothing made to period patterns using the correct period materials is
          >FAR more comfortable, long-wearing, and suited to our many camping events with
          >their varying weather than any modern fabric could be.
          >
          >We've already talked about the comfort of natural fibers over synthetics.
          >When you make it to proper period patterns, it's easier to put together,
          >generally uses less fabric, and works better for active movement. My wool and linen
          >tunics have lasted for many years - up to 10 in some cases - without needing
          >repairs at all; when I was wearing polycotton and cotton gauze and old
          >bedsheets I was constantly having to restitch seams that had come out and repair tears
          >and wear holes. For hot events, linen cannot be beaten as a comfort fabric,
          >and when it gets cold at night, or when you have a couple of days that are 50
          >degrees and raining, a good wool tunic over the linen underdress will keep you
          >comfortable and cozy warm and DRY for the most part. No need to run around
          >in wet, clingy polycotton or see through gauze, wrapped in a cloak and
          >shivering. Go about your business in a heavy wool tunic and hood and wool socks and
          >you'll be comfortable all day long, without the cloak in your way. And
          >certainly no need for plastic ponchos or trashbags over your clothes, as I've seen at
          >any number of events.
          >
          >It makes sense that it should work that way; after all, medieval and
          >renaissance people didn't have indoor climate control or modern waterproof materials
          >(and wool works better than a rubberized or plastic raincoat anyway), and they
          >lived far more in the weather than we do; most of us shuttle back and forth
          >between our houses, offices, and cars and hardly are out in the weather. Why
          >do we insist that they were always miserable in bad (or good, for that matter)
          >weather? Because we make our "medieval" clothes out of the wrong stuff (stuff
          >that was designed for use in climate-controlled conditions) and then complain
          >when it doesn't keep us comfortable when we're out in real weather.
          >
          >I don't encourage people to use period fabric because they can win
          >competitions by using it. I encourage its use because it is more practical for what
          >we're doing in the long run. What good is having 10 outfits made of cheap fabric
          >off the dollar-a-yard table and always going home complaining about how
          >uncomfortable you were at the event and how many repairs you need to make, when you
          >can have two made of the correct fabrics and be comfortable?
          >
          >And no, I don't dry clean my linen and wool outfits. The linen goes in the
          >washer and dryer or hangs out to dry and the only thing I ever iron is my
          >veils; the wool gets aired out and brushed off (something my 80+ year old neighbors
          >still do with their own wool coats, skirts and suits) unless it really needs
          >washed and then it goes in the washer in cold water and hangs to dry.
          >
          >
          >Brangwayna Morgan
          >Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
          >Lancaster, PA
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >---------------------------------
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          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scanewcomers/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >scanewcomers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >---------------------------------
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          >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          www.jackntracie.com
          Live, and learn...


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • chemistbb3
          Ya know, I do have to agree with this to a point. Yes the fabrics that were used in period do work very well for period clothes and they wear very well. They
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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            Ya know, I do have to agree with this to a point.

            Yes the fabrics that were used in period do work very well for period
            clothes and they wear very well. They are suppose to since, in
            period, that is what the folks had and it had to. And yes the SCA is
            suppose to be educational, but isn't technique the more important
            thing? If A&S was limited to total authenticity, I doubt that we
            would see many entries. For example, how many costumers actually
            work with period fabric that is made as it was in period, with
            equipment made as it was in period?

            OK, I can afford the "correct" fabric, even at $50 per yard, (it may
            be the only fabric I buy for a couple of months though) but I am
            still not above buying good cotton fabric when I can find it on
            sale. Sorry, but I baulk at $10 a yard stuff (going price at my
            local fabric store for linen, if it is available.). I search the
            bargin tables, just like anyone else. Yes, I am going to bite the
            bullet and pay the bucks for linen and wool soon, but I will still
            make good ol' cotton tunics and hoods as well. They are comfortable,
            wear well, and quite frankly suit the purpose. Also, I know a number
            of folks that share The Dream that quite frankly have difficulty
            scraping up enough to pay gas to go to events and have to do without
            to pay gate. They have done marvelous things with bits and prices
            from yard sales, and quite frankly won a Frugal Garb contest or two.

            Yes, the period fabrics are good, but I would rather see my friends
            at an event in bedsheets than not at all...

            William
            (Who wonders where people are finding used sheets that are suitable
            for garb?)

            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
            >
            > <<only worry about "periodness" of fabric if you're entering the
            > garment in Competition.>>
            >
            > <<As long as you are not going to try to put this in a competion
            for
            > authentisity almost any fabric will do.>>
            >
            > Several people have made this comment in this thread, and it
            perturbs me.
            >
            > Is not the SCA an "educational" organization? Are we not supposed
            to be
            > educating people about the Middle Ages and Renaissance?
            >
            > I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to
            find some of
            > the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may
            well be
            > needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if
            you can
            > find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used
            cheap fabrics
            > myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to
            using only
            > period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford
            them and limit
            > the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has
            been a reason;
            > I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?
            >
            > Because I have learned far more about life in the Middle Ages by
            sticking to
            > the period options. I've learned why they made clothing the way
            they did and
            > why they wore it the way they wore it and what it did for them.
            I've learned
            > that clothing made to period patterns using the correct period
            materials is
            > FAR more comfortable, long-wearing, and suited to our many camping
            events with
            > their varying weather than any modern fabric could be.
            >
            > We've already talked about the comfort of natural fibers over
            synthetics.
            > When you make it to proper period patterns, it's easier to put
            together,
            > generally uses less fabric, and works better for active movement.
            My wool and linen
            > tunics have lasted for many years - up to 10 in some cases -
            without needing
            > repairs at all; when I was wearing polycotton and cotton gauze and
            old
            > bedsheets I was constantly having to restitch seams that had come
            out and repair tears
            > and wear holes. For hot events, linen cannot be beaten as a
            comfort fabric,
            > and when it gets cold at night, or when you have a couple of days
            that are 50
            > degrees and raining, a good wool tunic over the linen underdress
            will keep you
            > comfortable and cozy warm and DRY for the most part. No need to
            run around
            > in wet, clingy polycotton or see through gauze, wrapped in a cloak
            and
            > shivering. Go about your business in a heavy wool tunic and hood
            and wool socks and
            > you'll be comfortable all day long, without the cloak in your way.
            And
            > certainly no need for plastic ponchos or trashbags over your
            clothes, as I've seen at
            > any number of events.
            >
            > It makes sense that it should work that way; after all, medieval
            and
            > renaissance people didn't have indoor climate control or modern
            waterproof materials
            > (and wool works better than a rubberized or plastic raincoat
            anyway), and they
            > lived far more in the weather than we do; most of us shuttle back
            and forth
            > between our houses, offices, and cars and hardly are out in the
            weather. Why
            > do we insist that they were always miserable in bad (or good, for
            that matter)
            > weather? Because we make our "medieval" clothes out of the wrong
            stuff (stuff
            > that was designed for use in climate-controlled conditions) and
            then complain
            > when it doesn't keep us comfortable when we're out in real weather.
            >
            > I don't encourage people to use period fabric because they can win
            > competitions by using it. I encourage its use because it is more
            practical for what
            > we're doing in the long run. What good is having 10 outfits made
            of cheap fabric
            > off the dollar-a-yard table and always going home complaining about
            how
            > uncomfortable you were at the event and how many repairs you need
            to make, when you
            > can have two made of the correct fabrics and be comfortable?
            >
            > And no, I don't dry clean my linen and wool outfits. The linen
            goes in the
            > washer and dryer or hangs out to dry and the only thing I ever iron
            is my
            > veils; the wool gets aired out and brushed off (something my 80+
            year old neighbors
            > still do with their own wool coats, skirts and suits) unless it
            really needs
            > washed and then it goes in the washer in cold water and hangs to
            dry.
            >
            >
            > Brangwayna Morgan
            > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            > Lancaster, PA
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kirianna
            (Who wonders where people are finding used sheets that are suitable Goodwill or second hand stores! ~Kiri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              (Who wonders where people are finding used sheets that are suitable

              Goodwill or second hand stores!

              ~Kiri


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • tori T
              As far as finding used bed sheets suitable, most of the time I use my old bed sheets (I haven t used many but from my old twin bed and now in a queen).
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                As far as finding used bed sheets suitable, most of the time I use my old bed sheets (I haven't used many but from my old twin bed and now in a queen). Sometimes I can find some at garage sales, but most of the time I would use the flat sheet cause not many people use them or really pay attention to them (most people I know let me refraise that). but not too often. Also you can find some at a nearby goodwill or anystore of the such. You could probably find some at an outlet store or any store like that with not much wrong with it that you can cut around.

                Antonia





                chemistbb3 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ya know, I do have to agree with this to a point.

                Yes the fabrics that were used in period do work very well for period
                clothes and they wear very well. They are suppose to since, in
                period, that is what the folks had and it had to. And yes the SCA is
                suppose to be educational, but isn't technique the more important
                thing? If A&S was limited to total authenticity, I doubt that we
                would see many entries. For example, how many costumers actually
                work with period fabric that is made as it was in period, with
                equipment made as it was in period?

                OK, I can afford the "correct" fabric, even at $50 per yard, (it may
                be the only fabric I buy for a couple of months though) but I am
                still not above buying good cotton fabric when I can find it on
                sale. Sorry, but I baulk at $10 a yard stuff (going price at my
                local fabric store for linen, if it is available.). I search the
                bargin tables, just like anyone else. Yes, I am going to bite the
                bullet and pay the bucks for linen and wool soon, but I will still
                make good ol' cotton tunics and hoods as well. They are comfortable,
                wear well, and quite frankly suit the purpose. Also, I know a number
                of folks that share The Dream that quite frankly have difficulty
                scraping up enough to pay gas to go to events and have to do without
                to pay gate. They have done marvelous things with bits and prices
                from yard sales, and quite frankly won a Frugal Garb contest or two.

                Yes, the period fabrics are good, but I would rather see my friends
                at an event in bedsheets than not at all...

                William
                (Who wonders where people are finding used sheets that are suitable
                for garb?)

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:
                > In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
                >
                > <<only worry about "periodness" of fabric if you're entering the
                > garment in Competition.>>
                >
                > <<As long as you are not going to try to put this in a competion
                for
                > authentisity almost any fabric will do.>>
                >
                > Several people have made this comment in this thread, and it
                perturbs me.
                >
                > Is not the SCA an "educational" organization? Are we not supposed
                to be
                > educating people about the Middle Ages and Renaissance?
                >
                > I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to
                find some of
                > the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may
                well be
                > needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if
                you can
                > find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used
                cheap fabrics
                > myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to
                using only
                > period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford
                them and limit
                > the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has
                been a reason;
                > I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?
                >
                > Because I have learned far more about life in the Middle Ages by
                sticking to
                > the period options. I've learned why they made clothing the way
                they did and
                > why they wore it the way they wore it and what it did for them.
                I've learned
                > that clothing made to period patterns using the correct period
                materials is
                > FAR more comfortable, long-wearing, and suited to our many camping
                events with
                > their varying weather than any modern fabric could be.
                >
                > We've already talked about the comfort of natural fibers over
                synthetics.
                > When you make it to proper period patterns, it's easier to put
                together,
                > generally uses less fabric, and works better for active movement.
                My wool and linen
                > tunics have lasted for many years - up to 10 in some cases -
                without needing
                > repairs at all; when I was wearing polycotton and cotton gauze and
                old
                > bedsheets I was constantly having to restitch seams that had come
                out and repair tears
                > and wear holes. For hot events, linen cannot be beaten as a
                comfort fabric,
                > and when it gets cold at night, or when you have a couple of days
                that are 50
                > degrees and raining, a good wool tunic over the linen underdress
                will keep you
                > comfortable and cozy warm and DRY for the most part. No need to
                run around
                > in wet, clingy polycotton or see through gauze, wrapped in a cloak
                and
                > shivering. Go about your business in a heavy wool tunic and hood
                and wool socks and
                > you'll be comfortable all day long, without the cloak in your way.
                And
                > certainly no need for plastic ponchos or trashbags over your
                clothes, as I've seen at
                > any number of events.
                >
                > It makes sense that it should work that way; after all, medieval
                and
                > renaissance people didn't have indoor climate control or modern
                waterproof materials
                > (and wool works better than a rubberized or plastic raincoat
                anyway), and they
                > lived far more in the weather than we do; most of us shuttle back
                and forth
                > between our houses, offices, and cars and hardly are out in the
                weather. Why
                > do we insist that they were always miserable in bad (or good, for
                that matter)
                > weather? Because we make our "medieval" clothes out of the wrong
                stuff (stuff
                > that was designed for use in climate-controlled conditions) and
                then complain
                > when it doesn't keep us comfortable when we're out in real weather.
                >
                > I don't encourage people to use period fabric because they can win
                > competitions by using it. I encourage its use because it is more
                practical for what
                > we're doing in the long run. What good is having 10 outfits made
                of cheap fabric
                > off the dollar-a-yard table and always going home complaining about
                how
                > uncomfortable you were at the event and how many repairs you need
                to make, when you
                > can have two made of the correct fabrics and be comfortable?
                >
                > And no, I don't dry clean my linen and wool outfits. The linen
                goes in the
                > washer and dryer or hangs out to dry and the only thing I ever iron
                is my
                > veils; the wool gets aired out and brushed off (something my 80+
                year old neighbors
                > still do with their own wool coats, skirts and suits) unless it
                really needs
                > washed and then it goes in the washer in cold water and hangs to
                dry.
                >
                >
                > Brangwayna Morgan
                > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                > Lancaster, PA
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              • Katie Pleasance
                Huzzah for William! That s the attitude we newbies need to hear. Some of you old-timers need to remember: Intimidated Newbies Won t Be SCA Newbies For Long --
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                  Huzzah for William! That's the attitude we newbies need to hear.

                  Some of you old-timers need to remember: Intimidated Newbies Won't Be SCA
                  Newbies For Long -- They Will Be Doing Something Other Than SCA.

                  Katie


                  >Yes, the period fabrics are good, but I would rather see my friends
                  >at an event in bedsheets than not at all...
                  >William
                  >(Who wonders where people are finding used sheets that are suitable
                  >for garb?)
                • Susan Farmer
                  And on the topic of period fabrics ... I thought the Authenticity Fabric Note was a tad over the top and I ve played in the SCA on and off since there were
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                    And on the topic of "period fabrics ..."

                    I thought the Authenticity Fabric Note was a tad over the top and
                    I've played in the SCA on and off since there were only 4 kingdoms.

                    The purpose of this particular group is to **encourage** newcomers,
                    not *discourage* them.

                    Jerusha in Meridies
                  • Tirloch O'Riordain
                    ... While I agree with your sentiment in spirit (I always think it a good thing to promote the authentic experience and to promote education), I do think that
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                      bronwynmgn@... wrote:

                      >
                      > I understand full well that it can be difficult and expensive to find
                      > some of
                      > the fabrics used in period for garments, and that substitutions may
                      > well be
                      > needed at times (silk velvet for Renaissance stuff, for example; if
                      > you can
                      > find it, it's about $50/yard if you're really lucky). I've used cheap
                      > fabrics
                      > myself in my early years in the SCA, but I am now a convert to using only
                      > period-correct fabrics, even if I have to scrimp and save to afford
                      > them and limit
                      > the number of garments I have. Competition is not and never has been
                      > a reason;
                      > I don't do competitions, ever. So, why?


                      While I agree with your sentiment in spirit (I always think it a good
                      thing to promote the authentic experience and to promote education), I
                      do think that you are missing certain realities. You stated that you
                      used cheap fabrics in your early years but now...

                      What you are missing in this logic is that these people are in their
                      early years, many of them are making a first attempt at garb. They are
                      making now the same decisions that you made years ago. Some of them will
                      find us a wonderful experience, others may not stick around. Your
                      decision to switch to more period and expensive clothing is a decision
                      made about a known future. You know that you will use these clothes. You
                      know that you are going to be around in a year or two. While I hope that
                      new people will find our group worthy of their spare time, that may not
                      be a decision that they have made yet. That is the reason why our
                      corpora states that the only requirement is that you make an 'attempt"
                      at pre-seveteenth century clothing. We do not want to restrict them. We
                      want them to come and to learn and to play. Maybe someday they will
                      convert as you did, maybe they will not. There are many people for whom
                      the SCA has become their premiere hobby, and they apply much of their
                      free time and budget to it. There are many others however for whom it is
                      a minor hobby, and they do not wish to dedicate much time or money to
                      it. We have to understand this, and not apply our views to those people,
                      but rather assist them at any level that they wish to commit to.

                      Your Servant,

                      Tirloch
                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:55:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                        In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:55:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

                        <<So dont go ragging on people and saying it's wrong to use cheeper fabric
                        and old sheets just because we cant all have money like you. >>

                        I was not ragging on people who have to use cheap fabric if they want garb at
                        all, nor on people who choose to use cheap fabric because they want to spend
                        their money on other things, like period musical instruments, armor, or a
                        flat-screen TV - or even the rent on their apartment or food for their kids. Nor
                        did I say it was "wrong" to use cheap fabrics - I said I found it better to
                        use period ones. Saying one thing is better does not mean the other thing is
                        "wrong". I'm not rolling in money, contrary to your opinion - one paycheck a
                        month pays my mortgage, and all but about $200 of the other one goes to pay
                        other bills. Most of that $200 a month goes for gas, food, mundane clothes (which
                        I wear until they fall apart, regardless of changing fashions), and taking
                        care of my cats. I still choose to use some of that money, spent wisely, to
                        buy period fabrics for my garb.

                        I was responding to the people who insist that the only reason to consider
                        using period fabrics is if you want to win competitions. I gave a variety of
                        reasons why I have found saving my money for period fabrics to be more practical
                        and a better use of the money I do have. Your mileage may vary, of course,
                        and you are certainly free to choose to spend your money where you will, and to
                        wear what you like. I simply tried to present an alternative and far more
                        practical argument to competitions as a reason to use period fabrics, and got
                        attacked for it.


                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • chemistbb3
                        Ahhhhh, Then what we had here was a failya to communicate... Now your earlier post makes better sense to me! I have always liked the sound advice you have
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                          Ahhhhh,
                          Then what we had here was a failya to communicate...

                          Now your earlier post makes better sense to me!

                          I have always liked the sound advice you have always given and the
                          way your earlier post read to me was a bit of a shock. I'M glad that
                          is cleared up to me!

                          Williamk

                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:
                          > In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:55:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                          > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
                          >
                          > <<So dont go ragging on people and saying it's wrong to use cheeper
                          fabric
                          > and old sheets just because we cant all have money like you. >>
                          >
                          > I was not ragging on people who have to use cheap fabric if they
                          want garb at
                          > all, nor on people who choose to use cheap fabric because they want
                          to spend
                          > their money on other things, like period musical instruments,
                          armor, or a
                          > flat-screen TV - or even the rent on their apartment or food for
                          their kids. Nor
                          > did I say it was "wrong" to use cheap fabrics - I said I found it
                          better to
                          > use period ones. Saying one thing is better does not mean the
                          other thing is
                          > "wrong". I'm not rolling in money, contrary to your opinion - one
                          paycheck a
                          > month pays my mortgage, and all but about $200 of the other one
                          goes to pay
                          > other bills. Most of that $200 a month goes for gas, food, mundane
                          clothes (which
                          > I wear until they fall apart, regardless of changing fashions), and
                          taking
                          > care of my cats. I still choose to use some of that money, spent
                          wisely, to
                          > buy period fabrics for my garb.
                          >
                          > I was responding to the people who insist that the only reason to
                          consider
                          > using period fabrics is if you want to win competitions. I gave a
                          variety of
                          > reasons why I have found saving my money for period fabrics to be
                          more practical
                          > and a better use of the money I do have. Your mileage may vary, of
                          course,
                          > and you are certainly free to choose to spend your money where you
                          will, and to
                          > wear what you like. I simply tried to present an alternative and
                          far more
                          > practical argument to competitions as a reason to use period
                          fabrics, and got
                          > attacked for it.
                          >
                          >
                          > Brangwayna Morgan
                          > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          > Lancaster, PA
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mackenzie
                          ... The way you guys are talking, you make it sound as if cotton wasn t period! Cotton is perfectly period, especially if you re from the Orient, Middle East,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 1, 2004
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                            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Kirianna <kitani@c...> wrote:
                            > I agree....
                            >
                            > And, you can still learn about life in the Middle Ages while wearing
                            > cotton too!


                            The way you guys are talking, you make it sound as if cotton wasn't
                            period! Cotton is perfectly period, especially if you're from the
                            Orient, Middle East, Byzantium, Italy, or Egypt. It was available in
                            all of those areas for anyone of merchant class or higher. Lower
                            classes than that in Egypt, slightly east of Middle East, and Orient.
                            The nobility (as long as they weren't very low, poor nobility) could
                            afford it in France. England's about the only place where you would
                            need a royal connection to own cotton (the S&H was too high! LOL).

                            I suggest you guys take a visit over to SCA_Normans. Kirsten has tons
                            of information on linen and wool and her arguments about how cotton is
                            very period (Kirsten is a merchant with plenty of experience).
                          • Terrie B.
                            Oh dear. I seemed to have stirred up the pot. I truly apologize if I my question has caused any disturbances. My thanks to all who replied! I do value your
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 3, 2004
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                              Oh dear. I seemed to have stirred up the pot. I truly apologize if I
                              my question has caused any disturbances. My thanks to all who replied!
                              I do value your input!


                              Not quite scared away,

                              T
                            • Tirloch O'Riordain
                              ... Greetings, You stirred nothing up dear Lady... you but asked a simple question. As in all large organizations, occasionally different subjects will strike
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 3, 2004
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                                Terrie B. wrote:

                                > Oh dear. I seemed to have stirred up the pot. I truly apologize if I
                                > my question has caused any disturbances. My thanks to all who replied!
                                > I do value your input!
                                >
                                >
                                > Not quite scared away,
                                >
                                > T


                                Greetings,

                                You stirred nothing up dear Lady... you but asked a simple question.
                                As in all large organizations, occasionally different subjects will
                                strike cords with certain people, which often brings out more of an
                                emotional response than they may wish. I am sad that such a discussion
                                would take place on this list, but please take no fault of it upon
                                yourself. If nothing else, you were given a good indicator of the many
                                different views people have about costuming in the SCA, and therefore
                                you have a good starting point from which to make up your own mind on
                                what appeals to you.

                                I hope that you find the SCA to be a rewarding pastime, as so many of us
                                have.

                                Your Servant,

                                Tirloch
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