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Re: [SPAM] [SCA Newcomers] Owain ap Gruffudd, Madoc, andAmerica. (part two)

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  • Mike Drouillard
    Yes it does it provides newcomers like me with interesting historical stories to help get in the mode, and get the feel for different perspectives. Mike ...
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 16, 2004
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      Yes it does it provides newcomers like me with interesting historical
      stories to help get in the mode, and get the feel for different
      perspectives.

      Mike

      Katie Pleasance wrote:

      > Does this have **anything** to do with the group's topic?
      >
      > Katie
      >
      > At 02:28 AM 4/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
      > >Owain ap Gruffudd, Madoc, and America. (part two)
      > >
      > > By the late 1160s Wales was again in trouble. Not only had Owain
      > >ap Gruffudd's pledge to reconquer England come to nothing, but
      > >the English were once more firmly in control of the south. When
      > >he died in 1170, civil war broke out between his sons: his chosen
      > >successor Hywel faced an alliance led by his brothers Rhodri and
      > >Dafydd. Hywel was soon defeated, but almost immediately Rhodri
      > >and Dafydd began to squabble. It was the perfect opportunity for
      > >English invasion.
      > >
      > > Here begins the strange story of Madoc ap Owain. Madoc, Rhodri
      > >and Dafydd's younger brother, tried to reconcile the two, but to
      > >no avail. Convinced that the English were about to invade, he
      > >decided to seek assisstance from the French king Louis VII, who
      > >had been at war with the English king Henry II. Unknown to Madoc,
      > >Louis had made peace with Henry the previous year and so the trip
      > >proved fruitless. Having failed in his objective, Madoc returned
      > >to Wales only to find his two brothers still at each other's
      > >throats.
      > > In historical perspective the Welsh had no reason to fear an
      > >English invasion, as Henry II had turned his attentions to
      > >Ireland. However, at the time, Madoc was convinced that Wales was
      > >finished. He decided to flee Britain altogether and set sail to
      > >find the mythical Fortunate Isles, which were supposed to exist
      > >across the western seas.
      > > The earliest account of Madoc's voyage comes from the Flemish
      > >poet Willem van Hulst, who spent time in north Wales and appears
      > >to have written the story around 1200. This is known from the
      > >Dutch copyist Jacob van Mearlant who refers to Willem's "Voyage
      > >of Madoc" in the year 1255. Although no original copy of Willem's
      > >work has survived, it is partly preserved in a fourteenth-century
      > >French translation.
      > >
      > > In the story, Madoc sets sail using a 'magic stone' - probably a
      > >magnetic lodestone - to guide him. Ne sails out into the Atlantic
      > >and apparently reaches an uninhabited "paradise in the sun, where
      > >fruits grew in abundance". He returns and, although he produces
      > >exotic plants that no one has seen before, he fails to convince
      > >others that his new-found land is anything but a yarn.
      > >It is not known what land Madoc is supposed to have discovered,
      > >but some believe that it was one of the Canary Isles, others that
      > >it was one of the West Indies, and still others that it was main-
      > >land America. At Mobile Bay in Alabama a plaque on the beach marks
      > >the spot where locals believe Madoc came ashore, three centuries
      > >before the time of Columbus.
      > >
      > > (This would also account for one Native-American tribe's being
      > >questioned and examined [the "Mandan" tribe] by early American
      > >settlers, on account of their clear physical appearances - being
      > >so distinct from every other tribe, in often having grey or blue
      > >eyes, lighter skin and, get this - *loads* of Celtic in their
      > >language!
      > > As a former Native-American political activist, archivist, and
      > >researcher - I took great interest in thier history. They were
      > >attacked mercilessly by the Cherokee on account of their skin-
      > >colour, but accepted by other tribes! [So you see, racism is a
      > >human phenomenon and not just a "white" one!] ..coincidence? How
      > >could it be!?!!)
      > >
      > >
      > > There can be little doubt that, historically, Madoc made some kind
      > >of voyage. Around 1200, the Welsh scholar Llywarch ap Llywelyn made
      > >reference to his departure. There are two further references in the
      > >fifteenth century: around 1450 Ieuan Brechfa, a poet and historian,
      > >wrote that Madoc had sailed in search of "a fair land across the
      > >oceans, unknown and unproved", and in 1470 Maredudd ap Rhys, a
      > >clergyman from Ruabon, also wrote that Madoc had discovered a
      > >mysterious new land. An extant contemporary reference to Madoc
      > >reveals both that he was a seaman and that he possessed a ship. The
      > >twelfth-century maritime archives known as 'The Black Book of
      > >Admiralty', of which only fragments survive, includes amongst its
      > >entries for 1171 the ship 'Guignon Gorn', which is recorded as
      > >belonging to Madoc. This tends to confirm that Madoc did attempt
      > >some kind of voyage, but sheds no light on any new land he may have
      > >discovered.
      > >
      > >
      > >---------------------------------
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      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      >
      >
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