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Re: [SPAM] [SCA Newcomers] Owain ap Gruffudd, Madoc, andAmerica. (part two)

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  • Mike Drouillard
    Yes it does it provides newcomers like me with interesting historical stories to help get in the mode, and get the feel for different perspectives. Mike ...
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 16, 2004
      Yes it does it provides newcomers like me with interesting historical
      stories to help get in the mode, and get the feel for different
      perspectives.

      Mike

      Katie Pleasance wrote:

      > Does this have **anything** to do with the group's topic?
      >
      > Katie
      >
      > At 02:28 AM 4/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
      > >Owain ap Gruffudd, Madoc, and America. (part two)
      > >
      > > By the late 1160s Wales was again in trouble. Not only had Owain
      > >ap Gruffudd's pledge to reconquer England come to nothing, but
      > >the English were once more firmly in control of the south. When
      > >he died in 1170, civil war broke out between his sons: his chosen
      > >successor Hywel faced an alliance led by his brothers Rhodri and
      > >Dafydd. Hywel was soon defeated, but almost immediately Rhodri
      > >and Dafydd began to squabble. It was the perfect opportunity for
      > >English invasion.
      > >
      > > Here begins the strange story of Madoc ap Owain. Madoc, Rhodri
      > >and Dafydd's younger brother, tried to reconcile the two, but to
      > >no avail. Convinced that the English were about to invade, he
      > >decided to seek assisstance from the French king Louis VII, who
      > >had been at war with the English king Henry II. Unknown to Madoc,
      > >Louis had made peace with Henry the previous year and so the trip
      > >proved fruitless. Having failed in his objective, Madoc returned
      > >to Wales only to find his two brothers still at each other's
      > >throats.
      > > In historical perspective the Welsh had no reason to fear an
      > >English invasion, as Henry II had turned his attentions to
      > >Ireland. However, at the time, Madoc was convinced that Wales was
      > >finished. He decided to flee Britain altogether and set sail to
      > >find the mythical Fortunate Isles, which were supposed to exist
      > >across the western seas.
      > > The earliest account of Madoc's voyage comes from the Flemish
      > >poet Willem van Hulst, who spent time in north Wales and appears
      > >to have written the story around 1200. This is known from the
      > >Dutch copyist Jacob van Mearlant who refers to Willem's "Voyage
      > >of Madoc" in the year 1255. Although no original copy of Willem's
      > >work has survived, it is partly preserved in a fourteenth-century
      > >French translation.
      > >
      > > In the story, Madoc sets sail using a 'magic stone' - probably a
      > >magnetic lodestone - to guide him. Ne sails out into the Atlantic
      > >and apparently reaches an uninhabited "paradise in the sun, where
      > >fruits grew in abundance". He returns and, although he produces
      > >exotic plants that no one has seen before, he fails to convince
      > >others that his new-found land is anything but a yarn.
      > >It is not known what land Madoc is supposed to have discovered,
      > >but some believe that it was one of the Canary Isles, others that
      > >it was one of the West Indies, and still others that it was main-
      > >land America. At Mobile Bay in Alabama a plaque on the beach marks
      > >the spot where locals believe Madoc came ashore, three centuries
      > >before the time of Columbus.
      > >
      > > (This would also account for one Native-American tribe's being
      > >questioned and examined [the "Mandan" tribe] by early American
      > >settlers, on account of their clear physical appearances - being
      > >so distinct from every other tribe, in often having grey or blue
      > >eyes, lighter skin and, get this - *loads* of Celtic in their
      > >language!
      > > As a former Native-American political activist, archivist, and
      > >researcher - I took great interest in thier history. They were
      > >attacked mercilessly by the Cherokee on account of their skin-
      > >colour, but accepted by other tribes! [So you see, racism is a
      > >human phenomenon and not just a "white" one!] ..coincidence? How
      > >could it be!?!!)
      > >
      > >
      > > There can be little doubt that, historically, Madoc made some kind
      > >of voyage. Around 1200, the Welsh scholar Llywarch ap Llywelyn made
      > >reference to his departure. There are two further references in the
      > >fifteenth century: around 1450 Ieuan Brechfa, a poet and historian,
      > >wrote that Madoc had sailed in search of "a fair land across the
      > >oceans, unknown and unproved", and in 1470 Maredudd ap Rhys, a
      > >clergyman from Ruabon, also wrote that Madoc had discovered a
      > >mysterious new land. An extant contemporary reference to Madoc
      > >reveals both that he was a seaman and that he possessed a ship. The
      > >twelfth-century maritime archives known as 'The Black Book of
      > >Admiralty', of which only fragments survive, includes amongst its
      > >entries for 1171 the ship 'Guignon Gorn', which is recorded as
      > >belonging to Madoc. This tends to confirm that Madoc did attempt
      > >some kind of voyage, but sheds no light on any new land he may have
      > >discovered.
      > >
      > >
      > >---------------------------------
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      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      >
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