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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Shandra's device question(s)

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  • Megan & Dave
    Any of the options with the purple will have to have the white breaking it off from the main body. (I can t tell if the white line in the pictures is an
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 3, 2004
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      Any of the options with the purple will have to have the white breaking it off from the main body. (I can't tell if the white line in the pictures is an accident, or by design, but it would have to be done by design to pass.) Otherwise they all look ok to me.

      You're looking at the following blazon...
      Gules a pale or, charged with a pomegranate flower palewise proper.

      Option 2 would add
      on a base purpure fimbriated argent a cross of Calatrava Or.

      Option 3 would add
      on a chief purpure fimbriated argent a cross of Calatrava Or.

      Option 4 would add
      on a chief purpure fimbriated argent three mullets Or

      Option 5 would be
      on a chief purpure fimbriated argent a cross Moline Or

      I'm not seeing a conflict...although that doesn't mean there isn't one, I'm still relatively new at this. Personally, I like options 3 and 5 best.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: shandra_
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:50 PM
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Shandra's device question(s)


      Ok, I've been tinkering around with a device, and here are some of
      my "options"...

      http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/scanewcomers/lst?.dir=/Shandra%
      27s+device&.src=gr&.view=

      My persona is from Granada, Spain, around 1492, the Christian
      Conquest of Granada from the Moors, hense the pommegranate (granada
      in Spanish) and the colors of the Spanish flag. I also live in
      Calontir, and would like to incorporate that in some fashion (the
      purple).

      *What chance do you think my device has of being approved on the
      first try?
      *Which version do you like the best? worst?

      Any discussion is welcome!

      YIS,
      Shandra




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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Ternes
      ... For Shandra s devices as drawn, it looks like the white next to the base or chiefs on Devices 2-5 is intended simply as a divider, not as part of the
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 5, 2004
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        Megan & Dave wrote:

        > Any of the options with the purple will have to have the white breaking it off from the main body. (I can't tell if the white line in the pictures is an accident, or by design, but it would have to be done by design to pass.) Otherwise they all look ok to me.

        For Shandra's devices as drawn, it looks like the white next to the base or chiefs on Devices 2-5 is intended simply as a divider, not as part of the device. If so, it isn't correct. Ordinaries (such as the pale, base, and chief in the proposed devices) should
        be edged in a black line. The white line should be black, and there should be black lines along the edges of the pale.

        Also, it would be better to make the purple a bit brighter. As shown in the drawings it could be confused with blue (I had to reread the e-mail message to be sure what color was intended). The green of the stem and leaves should also be brighter. The dark
        green will tend to look black from any distance or in small scale. Regardless of the accuracy of the blazon, a submission may be returned for redrawing if there is any confusion over the colors used in the emblazon.


        > You're looking at the following blazon...
        > Gules a pale or, charged with a pomegranate flower palewise proper.

        The pomegranate, as drawn, is not "proper". The Glossary of Terms defines a pomegranate proper as "Green, seeded red". The proposed devices have a pink bulb on the pomegranates, which isn't a heraldic color. Therefore, as drawn, the pomegranate cannot be
        blazoned, and needs to be redrawn with a correct color (green to be proper).

        The Pic Dic indicates that a pomegranate drawn as shown should be blazoned as "slipped and leaved".

        It isn't necessary to blazon the "palewise" placement of the pomegranate. Charges on a pale are palewise by default.

        Assuming a pomegranate colored "proper", the first device could be blazoned;
        Gules, on a pale Or a pomegranate slipped and leaved proper.


        > Option 2 would add
        > on a base purpure fimbriated argent a cross of Calatrava Or.

        Devices 2-5 have a more serious problem. The base and the chiefs are purple on a red field. That's color on color (RfS VIII.2), and isn't allowed.

        Ignoring the color on color issue, I don't think that a base can be fimbriated. According to the Glossary of Terms "Fimbriation is only allowed for charges in the center of the field." This is why I assumed the white "edge" on the base and chiefs was a simple
        dividing line.


        > I'm not seeing a conflict...although that doesn't mean there isn't one, I'm still relatively new at this. Personally, I like options 3 and 5 best.

        Conflicts:

        Mary Margaret of Derby
        The following badge associated with this name was registered in October of 1976:
        Gules, on a pale Or three batwinged lions salient gules.
        for Family Trammerlaine
        - All the devices get one CD (RfS X.4.j.i) for completely changing the tertiary charges on the pale. Therefore the above conflicts with Device 1.
        - Devices 2-5 would get another CD for the addition of a base or chief, and so would not conflict, but have the color on color problem of their own.

        I would love to be able to give some solid suggestions for fixing these proposed devices, but that would depend on what Shandra considers most important in a device. One possible change would be to reverse the colors on the bases and chiefs. That would
        eliminate the color on color problem. I have not, however, checked this change for conflicts.

        --

        Rutger
        -- The really unfun part of SCA heraldry is telling someone; "That won't work".
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