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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Very New, Very Confused and Very Self-conscious

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  • amazonalys
    Thank you Lady Juliana. As it turns out, I am in Calontir. I appreciate your response. I just feel silly asking some of these questions...like I ought to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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      Thank you Lady Juliana.

      As it turns out, I am in Calontir. I appreciate your response. I
      just feel silly asking some of these questions...like I ought to
      already know.

      My husband and I have discussed geographical areas. They were the
      same as you, Him Scottish and myself Norman/England. I love a good
      coincidence.

      We have been thinking of coming to the Kingdom A&S (event?
      competition?), I believe it is in September. I'd love some more
      information on that. Folks can just come to take a look around,
      right? We thought, what better way to see the many things SCA folks
      do than to check out those who clearly are the best of the best?
    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
      ... Okay, you wrote this last, but I ve chosen to answer it first. These are *not* stupid questions at all. They are very good questions, and show that you ve
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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        On Tuesday 15 July 2003 13:41, amazonalys wrote:
        > Help, I feel like I'm asking the stupidist questions.

        Okay, you wrote this last, but I've chosen to answer it first. These
        are *not* stupid questions at all. They are very good questions, and
        show that you've been doing a great job of soaking up information
        in a hurry from others in your shire. Good for you! :-)

        > Hello to the group. I am very new to all this. My husband and I
        > have been to a few of our shire meetings and would like to get into
        > this a bit more, but I'm afraid I'm not good at asking questions face-
        > to-face. I thought this wonderful group might help.

        We certainly hope we can help...that's why we're here. I'll take a crack
        at most of your questions below, but will defer on some others because I
        know that there are some experts in those areas here. Other folks on this
        list may also want to elaborate on the comments I offer, too, and that's
        fine. :-)

        > I understand the need to find a name and era. We'd only thought
        > about 16th century prior to our first SCA meeting (ala Renfests) but
        > we've noticed no one in our shire seems to be late period. We don't
        > really want to be out of place, does time period really matter?

        The fact that most of your shire happens to be early period is a
        coincidence, not a policy from the SCA, Inc. Households, which are unofficial
        groups of friends, can be of a particular persona type, but official branches
        of the SCA are open to any time period from 600 to 1600 C.E.

        If the group itself is only a few years old, it is perhaps possible that the
        shire was formed by a group of friends who all had a common interest in early
        period. When you go to events, though, you will meet people with all sorts
        of personas and time periods within the SCA's scope of study. My wife and I
        do Byzantine persona, early 11th century, and we are the only Byzantines in
        our shire. Nothing wrong with that, though we do tease the rest of the group
        about their "inferior" cultures, since every educated person knows that
        Constantinople is the center of the world. [GRIN]

        The biggest problem with being the only ones of a given time period in your
        group is that you won't have local people to help you with research. But
        you will meet lots of different people at the larger events, so this is
        not usually a major problem. We also have the Internet now, and libraries
        continue to serve in the highly useful role they have always served.

        > Can we just pick a name and not worry about the time?

        Short answer: Yes, especially when you're new.
        Long answer: Over time, you will probably want to develop your persona's
        history and biography in more detail, because that's part of the fun of
        what we do. It's not required, though. All you really have to do is to pick
        an SCA name that falls within our period of study. The heralds on this list
        can tell you more about choosing a name and persona. There are some rules
        that apply not to what you can use in daily conversation, but only to what
        can be officially registered with the College of Arms. (This, also, is
        an optional step, not a requirement.)

        > I have Elizabethan
        > clothes and 13th century clothes, can I just wear what I want without
        > regard to persona?

        Again, short answer: Yes.
        Long answer: Yes. There are several ways to justify wearing clothes that
        are different from your persona's time period. Here are just a few
        examples that I've heard other people use:

        * You are allowed to have multiple personae and even multiple names. So,
        if you are interested in two different time periods and cultures, be
        two different people. (Isn't make-believe fun?) You'll have to explain
        to your friends, and casual acquaintances may hear one of your names
        and not realize that it's the same person as your other name, but these
        are minor inconveniences. I have an acquaintance who is Welsh
        (or something like that) sometimes and Mongolian at other times. She
        has two very different names.

        * Some people choose to think of the SCA event, which we say takes place
        in the "Current Middle Ages", as a form of "alternate historical
        universe" in which different cultures coexist that never actually met
        one another in the real historical world. In other words, London is
        a city that existed in the Middle Ages, but Calontir is a kingdom that
        exists in the Current Middle Ages. These folks see the SCA as "creating"
        an alternate reality rather than "re-creating" an actual reality.
        People who dress differently aren't presumed to come from other
        centuries, but rather from distant foreign lands with strange customs
        and different ways of reconing time. So of course they think it is a
        different year than you do. In that alternative viewpoint, it is
        entirely possible that your persona has decided, "I like the look of
        the garb that a particular group of foreigners wears, so I have
        decided to dress as they do when I travel in these unfamiliar lands."

        * You can just wear what you want because that's what you like, with no
        apologies to anyone. If someone asks why a ninth century Saxon is
        dressed as a thirteenth-century Englishwoman, simply explain that you
        happen to like the garb of the period and so you've chosen to wear it
        from time to time. Most people will accept that without complaint,
        because the practice is extremely common in the SCA. As long as they
        realize that you've made a conscious decision, not a mistake, even
        those who are very serious about authenticity will usually accept what
        you've chosen to do. (In fact, I know some *very* serious costumers,
        including a Laurel, who wear garb from different time periods than
        their persona, just because it was fun to sew.)

        In my own SCA life, I use a combination of these things. My persona is a
        merchant-class commoner by birth who was granted a title of nobility for
        public service. I have left Byzantium to travel the lands of western
        Europe with my wife Milica, who is from an area near modern-day Serbia.
        Along the way, I realized that the flowing, multilayered robes that are
        all the fashion for men of Constantinople are wildly impractical for
        the cold, windy lands of Europe, so I began to dress as the natives do.
        Furthermore, no one here could pronounce my Greek name, Iustinos Tekton,
        so I have shortened and anglicized it to Justin.

        This is really a pretty implausible story, because not too many people
        in the Middle Ages would have travelled that much as a tourist. But these
        are the Current Middle Ages, and this story has worked for me for ten
        years or more. I suspend disbelief and do what seems interesting and fun.

        I have some extremely authentic Byzantine garb that I wear for formal
        occasions, but most of the time I wear T-tunics, trews, and Mongolian
        saddle boots. In real-life Constantinople, a nobleman wouldn't be caught
        dead in a pair of boots....those were for lowly working-class people!
        See above about that "just wear what you want without apologies" comment. :-)

        >
        > It's my understanding that you can be anyone you want (not famous),
        > except titled nobility and that has to be earned. How do you do
        > that?

        I'm going to let the Heralds on this list address the first part of that
        question, because they can quote the official rules and I can't.

        As to the awards and such...

        We in the SCA re-create a sort of romanticized, idealized version of the
        Middle Ages. In the real world, most people, statistically, were peasants.
        It's not fun to be exploited, abused, disease-ridden, and starved (ask
        anyone who works for a large corporation!), so not too many people would
        want to do that as a hobby. Thus, we presume that everyone is of the
        gentry class or at least merchant class by birth, but that we have not
        "yet" been recognized by Their Majesties with a title of true nobility.
        So we are sort of "of noble bloodline" but not "nobility" when we start out.

        As you are active in the SCA and your local group, you will find that
        there are opportunities to do service work, such as teaching classes,
        helping organize and run events, serving in group offices, or assisting
        with special project teams. You may find that you excel at combat, or
        archery, or arts and crafts. Eventually, someone will notice that you've
        been doing good things for the group, and they will write to Their Majesties
        to ask that you be given your first award, an Award of Arms. If Their
        Majesties concur, you will one day be surprised as your name is called in
        Court and you go forward, kneel before Their Majesties, and receive a
        lovely illuminated and calligraphed scroll extolling your virtues and
        proclaiming your new rank. It is quite an honor, and you will probably
        blush deeply when you realize that the entire crowd is applauding for *you*.
        [GRIN]

        The AoA is what makes you "armigerous", that is, makes you a Lord or Lady.
        You are entitled to bear arms (heraldry), and you are addressed as Lord or
        Lady (the titles) instead of my lord or my lady (the courtesy salutations).

        (However, I will mention in passing that "my lord" and "my lady" are still
        proper forms of address to *anyone* in the SCA whose proper title or rank
        is unknown to you...even calling the Queen "my lady" is not improper
        if you were unaware that she is the Queen. If someone of high rank cares
        about his/her title being used, they should gently introduce themselves
        to you by title so that you will know. "Oops...I'm sorry...I didn't know!"
        is a *VERY* valid explanation in such cases. It happens all the time,
        even with experienced SCA members, so don't worry about it. [grin])

        Each Kingdom has different awards and honors above the AoA. In the Middle
        Kingdom, for example, we have an award called the Purple Fret which is
        given for service, the Willow which is given for excellence in the arts,
        and the Red Company which is given for skill in combat (there are others
        at this level as well). Other kingdoms have similar awards, but they
        call them something different. If you didn't already have an AoA when
        you receive a Purple Fret for service, the award automatically conveys
        an AoA by implication.

        The next level up is the Grant of Arms, or GoA. These awards, like those
        at the AoA level, are given for certain categories of skill or service.
        In the Middle Kingdom, for example, the Dragon's Heart is given for service,
        while the Gold Mace is given for skill and leadership in combat. The
        Evergreen is given for skill in arts or sciences. It is possible, though
        quite rare, to be given a Grant of Arms by itself. This has never been a
        common award, and in recent years has been all but eliminated. But if you
        receive one of the other Grant-level awards, the GoA status is implied.
        Persons with a GoA or equivalent are addressed as "Your Lordship" or
        "Your Ladyship" in most kingdoms, and are entitled to style themselves
        as "The Honorable Lord/Lady So-and-so". This is abbreviated THL or sometimes
        just HL, so if you read "THL Jonathan of Doe's Woods" you know that he has
        a Grant-level award.

        Above the Grant of Arms is the Patent of Arms, more commonly called a
        Peerage. These are society-wide in scope, and comprise the Knights (or
        Chivalry), the Laurels, and the Pelicans. Knights are elevated to peerage
        for all the same things you read about in the history books: skill at
        arms, courtesy, chivalry, largesse, bravery, and so forth. Laurels are
        elevated to peerage for their puissant skill at one or more arts or
        sciences, and for their willingness and ability to teach their crafts to
        others. Just as combat prowess without honor does not earn Knighthood,
        likewise expertise without sharing of knowledge does not earn one a
        Laurel. The Pelican is bestowed on those who have done good things for
        the organization but whose work doesn't fit in to the other categories.
        Often Pelicans are elevated for long service in administrative offices
        or for having done numerous special projects. One who has a Peerage
        is addressed as "Master So-and-so" or "Mistress So-and-so", or may adopt
        a title of equivalent rank from their own persona's specific culture
        and language. Knights are called "Sir So-and-so" if they have sworn
        fealty to the Crown, or "Master/Mistress So-and-so" if they elected not
        to swear fealty. (Technically, the latter are "Master/Mistress At Arms"
        rather than "Knight"...the two are held to be equal in rank and esteem,
        however, because swearing fealty is a personal choice.) All three Peerages
        (Chivalry, Laurels, and Pelicans) are of equal rank to one another.

        The very highest ranks, which are not truly awards, are the Royal Peerages.
        This includes, for example, Queens, Kings, Princes, Princesses, Dukes,
        Duchesses, Counts, and Countesses. The last four are those who have served
        previously as King or Queen (once for Count/ess and more than once for
        Duke/Duchess). Princes and Princesses are those who have, by dint of
        victory in Crown Tournament, earned the right to become the Heirs to the
        Crown, but who have not yet acceded to the throne. Or they can be the
        rulers of a Principality, which is a large land area just one step down
        from a Kingdom. The roles of the King and Queen are, well, obvious. :-)

        Barons and Baronesses are a special case, and come in two varieties: landed,
        and court. A landed Baron/ess, as in the Middle Ages, "holds" an area of
        territory in fiefdom and in fealty to the Sovereign. A court baron/ess is
        a title of nobility given by Their Majesties to those individuals deemed
        worthy of this special honor. Often, a landed Baron/ess who retires from
        that office is made a court Baron/ess by the Crown in gratitude for their
        service. All Barons and Baronesses may wear coronets and they are addressed
        as "Your Excellency."

        There are some other specialized awards, such as Augmentation of Arms,
        Writs of Crenellation, and so forth, but the preceding list includes most
        of the ones you'll encounter commonly.

        By the way, awards and titles are nice "thank yous" from the organization
        and the Crown, but they are not and should not be ends in themselves. Do
        what you like to do, do it well, and help others learn from what you can
        teach. The awards will follow in due time. In many ways, an award isn't
        so much a reward for what you have done, as it is a challenge and a
        statement of confidence in what others think you could achieve in the
        future. Give freely of what you know and what you can do, and let that
        be its own joyous reward. :-)

        >
        > Is it correct that you can't carry a sword as part of your
        > garb/persona unless you've been made a lord?

        Hmmmmm....There is no such rule in the Middle Kingdom, but I suppose there
        might be a kingdom out there somewhere that has this rule. In the MK, one
        can't carry a weapon into the royal presence (that is, the area near the
        King or Queen) unless one is a Knight. But anyone is allowed to carry steel
        as part of his/her garb except where event site rules or modern-world laws
        forbid it. We are all presumed to be honourable lords and ladies of these
        Current Middle Ages, and are expected to behave accordingly.

        Perhaps someone from another kingdom can step in here. In what kingdom do
        you reside?

        Now that I think about it, if someone said being Lord/Lady entitles you
        to "bear arms", what they probably meant was to bear *heraldic* arms,
        as in "coat of arms," not as in "weapons." Again, I think we need to check
        on the specific rules for your local kingdom to be able to answer this
        definitively.

        > What about personas that wouldn't be a lord, a viking or a moor?

        That gets complicated. Some who do such personas choose not to accept or
        carry titles of nobility. They might accept the award scroll from Their
        Majesties, and be grateful of the honor, but would choose not to be
        addressed by the noble title. This is another area where I'm going to sit
        quietly and defer to someone else to comment in more detail. :-)

        Gee...I didn't mean to write a novella! I do hope, nonetheless, that you
        find this to be informative. Your questions are very good and very
        perceptive questions, and you can continue to ask questions here and
        elsewhere with confidence. Let us know how we can be of further help.

        Also, consider obtaining a copy of the Known World Handbook from the
        Office of the Stock Clerk. You can order this wonderful reference online
        at http://stockclerk.sca.org/ . And by all means, take a look at the
        book "Forward Into the Past", which is available free for downloading from
        the SCA web site Newcomers page, http://sca.org/newcomers.html .

        Welcome to the SCA!

        Warm regards,

        Justin

        --
        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
        fesswise reversed sable.

        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
      • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
        ... A wonderful kingdom! Some close friends of mine, those who first talked me into giving the SCA a try, live in Calontir. The people there are very friendly
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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          On Tuesday 15 July 2003 16:07, amazonalys wrote:
          > As it turns out, I am in Calontir.

          A wonderful kingdom! Some close friends of mine, those who first talked me
          into giving the SCA a try, live in Calontir. The people there are very
          friendly and fun to be around. You'll have a great time!

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
          fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • Juliana Foxcroft
          You re welcome! Where are you located in Calontir? Kingdom A&S is at the end of this month - July 26 in Atchison, Kansas. The website is located at:
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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            You're welcome! Where are you located in Calontir?

            Kingdom A&S is at the end of this month - July 26 in Atchison, Kansas. The website is located at: http://artsci.calontir-rush.org/misc/kaandsflr.php.

            And yes, it's perfectly fine to come wander and see all the wonderful things that are produced by the many talented Gentles that inhabit our fair Kingdom. :D:D:D My first Kingdom A&S was last year, and it's truly incredible to see the variety of things that were produced by the different cultures of the Middle Ages.

            If you do come to A & S, please try to track me down. It would be really nice to meet you in person! I wish I could tell you what I'll be wearing but it's too early to tell yet.

            Welcome to Calontir!

            YIS,

            JF

            amazonalys <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            Thank you Lady Juliana.

            As it turns out, I am in Calontir. I appreciate your response. I
            just feel silly asking some of these questions...like I ought to
            already know.

            My husband and I have discussed geographical areas. They were the
            same as you, Him Scottish and myself Norman/England. I love a good
            coincidence.

            We have been thinking of coming to the Kingdom A&S (event?
            competition?), I believe it is in September. I'd love some more
            information on that. Folks can just come to take a look around,
            right? We thought, what better way to see the many things SCA folks
            do than to check out those who clearly are the best of the best?


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            JULIANA FOXCROFT

            The glory of friendship is not the outstretched hand, nor the kindly smile, nor the joy of companionship; it is the spiritual inspiration that comes to one when he discovers that someone else believes in him and is willing to trust him with his friendship. --Ralph Waldo Emerson

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave & Megan
            ... In the MK, one can t carry a weapon into the royal presence (that is, the area near the King or Queen) unless one is a Knight. ... Or if the king in
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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              ... In the MK, one
              can't carry a weapon into the royal presence (that is, the area near the
              King or Queen) unless one is a Knight. ...


              Or if the king in question threatens to have you strung up if you leave it behind, because he wants a look at it ;) (But that's an exception.)




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • amazonalys
              Whoops! I was WAY off. I must have been thinking of a different event! The 26th would be hard to make, it s coming up so fast, but I know we d like to
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                Whoops! I was WAY off. I must have been thinking of a different
                event!

                The 26th would be hard to make, it's coming up so fast, but I know
                we'd like to attend. Goodness, garb has just become more urgent! I
                may have to make do with the lower-middle-class Elizabethan.

                I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but nice...I
                just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over that.

                I hope I do make it to A&S. I'll try to locate you. (First to find
                a sitter for the 8 year old who REALLY won't want to go to this!)

                Alice

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Juliana Foxcroft <JuliFox@s...>
                wrote:
                > You're welcome! Where are you located in Calontir?
                >
                > Kingdom A&S is at the end of this month - July 26 in Atchison,
                Kansas. The website is located at: http://artsci.calontir-
                rush.org/misc/kaandsflr.php.
                >
                > And yes, it's perfectly fine to come wander and see all the
                wonderful things that are produced by the many talented Gentles that
                inhabit our fair Kingdom. :D:D:D My first Kingdom A&S was last
                year, and it's truly incredible to see the variety of things that
                were produced by the different cultures of the Middle Ages.
                >
                > If you do come to A & S, please try to track me down. It would be
                really nice to meet you in person! I wish I could tell you what I'll
                be wearing but it's too early to tell yet.
                >
                > Welcome to Calontir!
                >
                > YIS,
                >
                > JF
                >
                > amazonalys <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                > Thank you Lady Juliana.
                >
                > As it turns out, I am in Calontir. I appreciate your response. I
                > just feel silly asking some of these questions...like I ought to
                > already know.
                >
                > My husband and I have discussed geographical areas. They were the
                > same as you, Him Scottish and myself Norman/England. I love a good
                > coincidence.
                >
                > We have been thinking of coming to the Kingdom A&S (event?
                > competition?), I believe it is in September. I'd love some more
                > information on that. Folks can just come to take a look around,
                > right? We thought, what better way to see the many things SCA
                folks
                > do than to check out those who clearly are the best of the best?
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > scanewcomers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > JULIANA FOXCROFT
                >
                > The glory of friendship is not the outstretched hand, nor the
                kindly smile, nor the joy of companionship; it is the spiritual
                inspiration that comes to one when he discovers that someone else
                believes in him and is willing to trust him with his friendship. --
                Ralph Waldo Emerson
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                ... Ahhhh! Wyvern Cliff!!!! My friends are from Standing Stones, in Columbia. But I used to live in J.C., and my parents still live about 15 miles from there.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                  On Tuesday 15 July 2003 17:16, amazonalys wrote:
                  > I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but nice...I
                  > just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over that.

                  Ahhhh! Wyvern Cliff!!!! My friends are from Standing Stones, in Columbia.
                  But I used to live in J.C., and my parents still live about 15 miles from
                  there. I graduated from Mizzou, class of 19(mumblemumble).

                  Small world, isn't it? :-)

                  So...are you coming to Pennsic?

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()

                  Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Pennsic 32 War Chirurgeon

                  chirurgeon@... http://pennsic-chir.sca.org/
                  PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/chirurgeon.pubkey
                • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... Ahhhh! Wyvern Cliff!!!! My friends are from Standing Stones, in Columbia. But I used to live in J.C., and my parents still live about 15 miles from there.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                    On Tuesday 15 July 2003 17:16, amazonalys wrote:
                    > I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but nice...I
                    > just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over that.

                    Ahhhh! Wyvern Cliff!!!! My friends are from Standing Stones, in Columbia.
                    But I used to live in J.C., and my parents still live about 15 miles from
                    there. I graduated from Mizzou, class of 19(mumblemumble).

                    Small world, isn't it? :-)

                    So...are you coming to Pennsic?

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
                    fesswise reversed sable.

                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                  • amazonalys
                    Why it is a small world. I too graduated from Mizzou, graduate school, also in 19(mumblemumble)! Seriously though, I haven t met anyone from Standing Stones
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                      Why it is a small world. I too graduated from Mizzou, graduate
                      school, also in 19(mumblemumble)! Seriously though, I haven't met
                      anyone from Standing Stones yet...although I work with the mother of
                      a member.

                      We're really enjoying Wyverne Cliffe. I'm just trying to find my way
                      still.

                      As for Pennsic, my husband and I both work for the state, in jobs
                      that require MONTHS notice to get vacation...so...no Pennsic for us
                      this year. We are really looking forward to Lilies next year though.

                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      <justin@4...> wrote:
                      > On Tuesday 15 July 2003 17:16, amazonalys wrote:
                      > > I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but
                      nice...I
                      > > just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over
                      that.
                      >
                      > Ahhhh! Wyvern Cliff!!!! My friends are from Standing Stones, in
                      Columbia.
                      > But I used to live in J.C., and my parents still live about 15
                      miles from
                      > there. I graduated from Mizzou, class of 19(mumblemumble).
                      >
                      > Small world, isn't it? :-)
                      >
                      > So...are you coming to Pennsic?
                      >
                      > Justin
                      >
                      > --
                      > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]
                      xxxx()
                      > Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                      > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
                      > fesswise reversed sable.
                      >
                      > Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio)
                      http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                      > justin@4... PGP Public Key at
                      http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                      ... Never been to that, but have heard good things about the event. If your first Pennsic you camp with Calontir, we ll have something else in common, because
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                        On Tuesday 15 July 2003 18:11, amazonalys wrote:
                        >
                        > As for Pennsic, my husband and I both work for the state, in jobs
                        > that require MONTHS notice to get vacation...so...no Pennsic for us
                        > this year. We are really looking forward to Lilies next year though.

                        Never been to that, but have heard good things about the event. If your
                        first Pennsic you camp with Calontir, we'll have something else in
                        common, because that's what I did back at Pennsic 20.

                        (Wanna talk about being intimidated by the SCA? Pennsic 20 was my very
                        first SCA event, period. I had never even been to a shire meeting. I
                        was terrified that if I accidentally used any modern words or phrases
                        someone would kick me out of the event. [GRIN])

                        Please give warm regards from Justin and Milica to the good folk of
                        Wyverne Cliffe.

                        Justin

                        --
                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
                        fesswise reversed sable.

                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      • Juliana Foxcroft
                        If you re worried about garb, and you don t have much of your own, try to find out who the Gold Key person is for your area and ask to borrow some from them.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                          If you're worried about garb, and you don't have much of your own, try to find out who the Gold Key person is for your area and ask to borrow some from them. If you're worried about fancy stuff, don't be. A lot of people do wear their best but it's not required. At just about every event I've attended, I've seen people wearing everything from the most simple tunics to the most grandiose Elizabethan. I will most probably be opting for comfort adn simplicity rather than looks that day, given how hot it's been and not yet knowing how busy I may be. If I wake up that morning in the mood to do it, I might wear the middle eastern outfit Arden bought for me at Lilies. Most likely Arden will be wearing plain pants and one of the shirts I made him, and the kids will be wearing simple tunics.

                          Do hope you can make it. But if not we'll try another time. We're going to Raid & Trade this weekend (up in Iowa), and then there's Feast of Eagles coming up in Cum An Iolair (Johnson County, KS), and the Valor tourney I believe is in Wichita in the beginning of September. December and Kris Kinder will be here before we know it. That's a huge shopping event - our first was last year and it was fantastic! There may be some upcoming events that are closer to Jeff City too so maybe we'll get out that way. We do like to travel :).

                          Better run for now - Arden's on his way to get me from work and one of my bosses just called.

                          YIS,

                          JF


                          amazonalys <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          Whoops! I was WAY off. I must have been thinking of a different
                          event!

                          The 26th would be hard to make, it's coming up so fast, but I know
                          we'd like to attend. Goodness, garb has just become more urgent! I
                          may have to make do with the lower-middle-class Elizabethan.

                          I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but nice...I
                          just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over that.

                          I hope I do make it to A&S. I'll try to locate you. (First to find
                          a sitter for the 8 year old who REALLY won't want to go to this!)

                          Alice

                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Juliana Foxcroft <JuliFox@s...>
                          wrote:
                          > You're welcome! Where are you located in Calontir?
                          >
                          > Kingdom A&S is at the end of this month - July 26 in Atchison,
                          Kansas. The website is located at: http://artsci.calontir-
                          rush.org/misc/kaandsflr.php.
                          >
                          > And yes, it's perfectly fine to come wander and see all the
                          wonderful things that are produced by the many talented Gentles that
                          inhabit our fair Kingdom. :D:D:D My first Kingdom A&S was last
                          year, and it's truly incredible to see the variety of things that
                          were produced by the different cultures of the Middle Ages.
                          >
                          > If you do come to A & S, please try to track me down. It would be
                          really nice to meet you in person! I wish I could tell you what I'll
                          be wearing but it's too early to tell yet.
                          >
                          > Welcome to Calontir!
                          >
                          > YIS,
                          >
                          > JF
                          >
                          > amazonalys <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          > Thank you Lady Juliana.
                          >
                          > As it turns out, I am in Calontir. I appreciate your response. I
                          > just feel silly asking some of these questions...like I ought to
                          > already know.
                          >
                          > My husband and I have discussed geographical areas. They were the
                          > same as you, Him Scottish and myself Norman/England. I love a good
                          > coincidence.
                          >
                          > We have been thinking of coming to the Kingdom A&S (event?
                          > competition?), I believe it is in September. I'd love some more
                          > information on that. Folks can just come to take a look around,
                          > right? We thought, what better way to see the many things SCA
                          folks
                          > do than to check out those who clearly are the best of the best?
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > JULIANA FOXCROFT
                          >
                          > The glory of friendship is not the outstretched hand, nor the
                          kindly smile, nor the joy of companionship; it is the spiritual
                          inspiration that comes to one when he discovers that someone else
                          believes in him and is willing to trust him with his friendship. --
                          Ralph Waldo Emerson
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                          JULIANA FOXCROFT

                          The glory of friendship is not the outstretched hand, nor the kindly smile, nor the joy of companionship; it is the spiritual inspiration that comes to one when he discovers that someone else believes in him and is willing to trust him with his friendship. --Ralph Waldo Emerson

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Tina Paxton
                          Hello, I hope I can help with a few of your questions anyway. :-) ... It can seem overwhelming when you are new and trying to figure everything out. Have you
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 15, 2003
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                            Hello, I hope I can help with a few of your questions anyway. :-)

                            on 7/15/03 1:41 PM, amazonalys at no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                            > Hello to the group. I am very new to all this. My husband and I
                            > have been to a few of our shire meetings and would like to get into
                            > this a bit more, but I'm afraid I'm not good at asking questions face-
                            > to-face. I thought this wonderful group might help.

                            It can seem overwhelming when you are new and trying to figure everything
                            out. Have you contacted your shire's chataleine or sensahale? This
                            individual's duties are to help newcomers find their place in the group --
                            get together with others within the shire who have similar interests. If
                            you haven't contacted this person, please do. This indivdual is a valuable
                            resource you can't do without!

                            > I understand the need to find a name and era. We'd only thought
                            > about 16th century prior to our first SCA meeting (ala Renfests) but
                            > we've noticed no one in our shire seems to be late period. We don't
                            > really want to be out of place, does time period really matter? Can
                            > we just pick a name and not worry about the time? I have Elizabethan
                            > clothes and 13th century clothes, can I just wear what I want without
                            > regard to persona?
                            >

                            Until you pinpoint a time period and location for your persona, you can just
                            pick a name that at least "sounds" period. Not everyone goes into great
                            deal in constructing a persona. You may simply want to have a "period name"
                            and then dress in period clothing as you like and not worry about whether
                            you are mixing periods or cultures. That's okay. It is also okay if your
                            persona is from a different culture/era than your spouses and that of others
                            within your shire. It is perfectly normal to have 10th century celts
                            hanging out with 16th century Elizabethians.

                            > It's my understanding that you can be anyone you want (not famous),
                            > except titled nobility and that has to be earned. How do you do
                            > that?

                            Titles and such are earned...through service...through study of a
                            skill...and I think other ways too but I can think of them at the moment.

                            > Is it correct that you can't carry a sword as part of your
                            > garb/persona unless you've been made a lord? What about personas
                            > that wouldn't be a lord, a viking or a moor?

                            I think but can't guarantee that it has more to do with style of sword...or
                            is the sword okay and the silver spirs are the issue? I don't know,
                            hopefully someone else can help with that one!

                            > Help, I feel like I'm asking the stupidist questions.

                            No, I think my first questions were stupidister than yours!

                            Cristiane of Paxton
                            1400 Lallan Scot of the East Marche
                            In Current Middle Ages member of Shire of Seareach, Kingdom of Atlantia
                          • amazonalys
                            Thank you all very much. I appreciate the advice.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 16, 2003
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                              Thank you all very much. I appreciate the advice.
                            • Mary Henline
                              I spent some time reading through the digest, then headed over to answer this post in particular. Big surprise, right Justin? Smiles. As for the garb, do not
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 16, 2003
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                                I spent some time reading through the digest, then headed over to
                                answer this post in particular. Big surprise, right Justin? Smiles.

                                As for the garb, do not worry. My first garb was a simple T-dress.
                                The pattern is from the handbook that Justin pointed you to (the free
                                dl online), and over the past year + we've (aka I got a lot of help!)
                                have added to it, improving it's appearance, and otherwise making it
                                more decorative, but it's still the nice, cool, garb that I am so
                                happy to own! It took a couple of hours to make. Side note, do not
                                let folks chase you away from a sewing machine. In the beginning, it
                                is a good friend. I'm not good at sewing, cooking, or the like, but
                                the SCA has taken these and at least given me the desire to learn
                                more. :)

                                As for the 8 year old, I am a single mom with a 6 year old. His name
                                is period (Ian, Eoan in those days), and he loves to come to events
                                with me ever since he discovered that knights beat on each other.
                                Now you and I know these folks are not knights--they're just
                                fighters, but to a kid it's magical. Clothing for a child is a
                                simple late t-shirt styled shirt and a pair of either shorts and dark
                                or leather sandals, or a pair of dark sweats.

                                One big draw in the kingdoms now is what is known as "boffer". It
                                enables children to beat on each other with the adults watching,
                                pleased. (Ok, ok. So it's a bit more complicated than that, but
                                that's how Ian looks at it, grins). Seriously, boffer is a training
                                program for discipline, rule-structure and following abilities,
                                defensive stance and defending yourself when attacked, and attacking
                                others. The core of the boffer is a sword that in our Kingdom is a
                                golf-tube wrapped in foam insulation and covered in duct tape and
                                strapping tape. These boffers are very popular with the kids who I
                                have met--they think they are cool. Your little one might be
                                interested in that.

                                If you have any questions about Boffer, reply and I'll send you the
                                links to the proper places of inquiry. :)

                                Welcome to the SCA, and welcome to the dream.

                                Lady Mary Henline
                                MoY for Alderford
                                (Dee)


                                > The 26th would be hard to make, it's coming up so fast, but I know
                                > we'd like to attend. Goodness, garb has just become more urgent! I
                                > may have to make do with the lower-middle-class Elizabethan.
                                >
                                > I'm in Jefferson City. The group here has been nothing but
                                nice...I
                                > just don't blend in very quickly. I really must try to get over
                                that.
                                >
                                > I hope I do make it to A&S. I'll try to locate you. (First to
                                find
                                > a sitter for the 8 year old who REALLY won't want to go to this!)
                                >
                                > Alice
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