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Garb snarks

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  • Carolyn
    Have any of you guys ever started a piece of garb, and by the time you finish it, you find out that it s all wrong? I m a sewing/SCA newbie, and I just
    Message 1 of 9 , May 5, 2003
      Have any of you guys ever started a piece of garb, and by the time
      you finish it, you find out that it's all wrong? I'm a sewing/SCA
      newbie, and I just finished my first piece of garb (actually, my
      first major sewing project, ever). I worked so hard on this dress;
      it took me three whole days and about $50. I can't sew without a
      pattern, so I used McCall's pattern #3663, view B (the one on the
      right in the picture).

      I now know that it is the bastard child of a bilaut, a t-tunic, and a
      kirtle. I made it out of blue 100% cotton fabric (it's just too hot
      in Florida for anything else) and then I found out that bilauts were
      made of silky material. The neckline is square, and I later found
      out that bilauts have v-necks. But, it has angel-ish sleeves. I
      thought I'd be clever and substitute lacing for the zipper in the
      back. I'm afraid a zipper would've been better because at least it
      would've been hidden (I don't think they laced bilauts in the back).

      I'm very frustrated! With all of the talk of "garb snarks," I'm
      afraid to wear it. Are people really that rude??? I think if anyone
      says anything to me, I'm just gonna say, "Who asked you?!!?"

      Carolyn
    • R Gray
      ... Carolyn! Calm down. :) I am sure your bastard child will be just fine. I know mine is. My first attemopt (& I haven t made a second outfit yet) is a
      Message 2 of 9 , May 5, 2003
        > I'm very frustrated! With all of the talk of "garb
        > snarks," I'm
        > afraid to wear it. Are people really that rude???
        > I think if anyone
        > says anything to me, I'm just gonna say, "Who asked
        > you?!!?"
        >

        Carolyn! Calm down. :) I am sure your "bastard
        child" will be just fine. I know mine is. My first
        attemopt (& I haven't made a second outfit yet) is a
        peasant skirt, chemise & vest. Not quite period, yet
        no one I've encountered in the 4 events I've attended
        in it has said a word. Most people I know in the SCA
        are very forgiving & realize that everyone is not born
        with a golden needle. If you are brand new to both
        the SCA and sewing, I am amazed you would take garb on
        right away. Most people I know buy their first garb.


        As to the differences between the pattern you followed
        and "the real thing", relax. Every kind of clothing
        has numerous variations, especially in the neck line &
        sleeves. As for lacing vs zipper - well done! Lacing
        is very period, and zippers are not!! (even if they
        are hidden) I think you would've gotten much more
        flack had you gone that route.

        As to the fabric you used, blaiuts were made from more
        than one type of material. Whether it's "silky" or
        not will not get any raised eyebrows. And while
        cotton is not really period, it's breathable, natural,
        and what's widely available & used in the CURRENT
        Middle Ages.

        I'd like to see a picture of you in the dress if you
        have one. I'm sure it looks just fine! :)



        =====
        Anpli�a Dell'Isola
        (aka Rachel Gray)
        winterstar74@...
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "If you don't find it in the index, look very carefully through the entire catalogue." ~ Sears, Roebuck & Co.

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      • authoressmeow@aol.com
        I haven t had that kind of problem with the Outlands Al-Barran group [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 9 , May 5, 2003
          I haven't had that kind of problem with the Outlands Al-Barran group


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/5/2003 5:19:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... All the time. And I ve been doing this for 13 years. I am currently working on a bliaut in
          Message 4 of 9 , May 5, 2003
            In a message dated 5/5/2003 5:19:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

            > Have any of you guys ever started a piece of garb, and by the time
            > you finish it, you find out that it's all wrong?

            All the time. And I've been doing this for 13 years. I am currently working
            on a bliaut in fine wool and have two "mistakes" - I sewed the front and back
            panels together at the shoulder instead of using one piece, which I've been
            told may stop the v-neck from working properly; and I really should have done
            the embroidery for the sleeves on a separate band and put it on as a facing.
            But I'm halfway through the embroidery for one sleeve, and I ain't stopping
            now!

            >
            >
            > I now know that it is the bastard child of a bilaut, a t-tunic, and a
            > kirtle. I made it out of blue 100% cotton fabric (it's just too hot
            > in Florida for anything else) and then I found out that bilauts were
            > made of silky material.

            We don't really know what bliauts were made of, as there are not any extant
            ones. As long as it's nice and drapy, it should replicate the look properly.
            You might also want to consider linen; I find it even cooler than cotton,
            and it's a period fabric, although not often used in the outer fashion layer,
            perhaps.

            > The neckline is square, and I later found
            > out that bilauts have v-necks.

            Not all bliauts have v-necks. There are definitely some with rounded and
            keyhole necklines. I don't think I've ever seen square.

            > But, it has angel-ish sleeves. I
            > thought I'd be clever and substitute lacing for the zipper in the
            > back. I'm afraid a zipper would've been better because at least it
            > would've been hidden (I don't think they laced bilauts in the back).


            Again, we don't have much info about the backs of bliauts. While we do have
            a (very) few images showing side lacing, there are a number that show no
            lacing at all, even though the sides are clearly visible. Some people have
            said that it's easy to recreate the pleats across the stomach with
            sidelacing, while others have reported that you can do it with back lacing as
            well. I think that any lacing is better than a zipper :-), and again, if it
            gives the right look, then you've at least come close.

            >
            > I'm very frustrated! With all of the talk of "garb snarks," I'm
            > afraid to wear it. Are people really that rude??? I think if anyone
            > says anything to me, I'm just gonna say, "Who asked you?!!?"
            >

            Despite all the stories to the contrary, actual in your face garb snarking is
            VERY rare. I've been in the SCA 13 years; I only started caring about
            authenticity about 7 or 8 years ago, so I spent 6 or 7 years (very active
            years, maybe 10-20 events a year) mostly in RenFaire wench garb. Short
            sleeves, elastic, poly blends, and one really bad attempt at a Viking apron
            dress. And tunics and pants. And mid-calf-length skirts with the hems not
            finished, on purpose, because I thought it looked "peasanty". And I was
            snarked ONCE, at my first event, for having my skirt and petticoat tucked up
            to show off my bloomers in proper Renwench fashion. Once I stopped doing
            that, I stopped hearing any bad comments.
            And honestly, considering some of the things I've seen people wear to first
            events (this past weekend, the guy with the short, not even mid-thigh length
            short-sleeved red tunic over blue jeans, with a baseball cap turned backwards
            on his head comes to mind), you should look positively advanced in your garb
            skills :-)

            Brangwayna
            PS. Just remember that someone who comes up to you and politely mentions
            that they could help you with garb if you are interested is NOT snarking.
            They may well be noting that you are someone who cares about getting it
            right, and would like to help you.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
            ... I personally think we should arbitrarily define wench garb as being period for any persona, but perhaps I am merely showing my lecherous side.
            Message 5 of 9 , May 5, 2003
              On Monday 05 May 2003 18:09, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
              > Despite all the stories to the contrary, actual in your face garb snarking
              > is VERY rare. I've been in the SCA 13 years; I only started caring about
              > authenticity about 7 or 8 years ago, so I spent 6 or 7 years (very active
              > years, maybe 10-20 events a year) mostly in RenFaire wench garb.

              <humor_mode>
              I personally think we should arbitrarily define wench garb as being period
              for any persona, but perhaps I am merely showing my lecherous side.
              </humor_mode>

              Seriously, Brangwayna makes a good point here. Garb snarking is pretty rare,
              and generally when it does occur it is directed toward people who claim
              expertise in that area (when others disagree with that claim). If anyone
              does comment on your garb, there is nothing at all wrong with saying, "Well,
              this is my first garb. I had it mostly finished before I realized that there
              were some authenticity problems, but I'll fix those on my next project. In
              the meantime, I have something pretty to wear at events while I look around
              to see more authentic examples."

              Generally, a reply like that is more likely to result in offers of research
              help, rather than further criticism. Most authenticity mavens are altogether
              glad to teach, and would rather do that than criticize. For the minority of
              people who really enjoy criticizing others -- well, these folks are found
              in any organization, and they dishonor *themselves* by their conduct. They
              deserve nothing better than to be ignored by the rest of us. The SCA only
              officially requires "an attempt" at pre-1600 costume. Anyone who disagrees
              with that rule should be politely directed to take it up with their local
              Seneschal. (Having been one, I can tell you they are likely to get exactly
              *nowhere* with that tactic. [GRIN])

              But you'll find that most people, when learning that you *made* your first
              garb all by yourself, will be seriously impressed and will be eager to help
              you make more. Expect many more compliments than criticisms. :-)

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
              fesswise reversed sable.

              Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
              justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
            • authoressmeow@aol.com
              If anyone says anything to you it will be mostlikely to offer help. My mentors in the SCA are going to help make my first garb as I learn to sew. Relax
              Message 6 of 9 , May 5, 2003
                If anyone says anything to you it will be mostlikely to offer help. My
                mentors in the SCA are going to help make my first garb as I learn to sew.
                Relax


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • vujadea200@aol.com
                Hey all, I am from Ansteorra, but I will be at the Mid-Relm Coronation this weekend. Is anyone else going to be there? If so, it would be great to meet
                Message 7 of 9 , May 5, 2003
                  Hey all,
                  I am from Ansteorra, but I will be at the Mid-Relm Coronation this
                  weekend. Is anyone else going to be there? If so, it would be great to meet
                  people who I see emails from all the time!!!!

                  Adena


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dontwait4themessiah
                  Our group, Agaricus, near Rowany, Lochac (Sydney, Australia) is generally very good about it too. I found this pretty looking tunic in black velvet with
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 6, 2003
                    Our group, Agaricus, near Rowany, Lochac (Sydney, Australia) is
                    generally very good about it too. I found this pretty
                    looking 'tunic' in black velvet with purple and gold and loved it.
                    It turned out to be a dress, but the only thing anyone ever said
                    about it was 'You look very pretty today Morag. That's a nice Bob
                    outfit you've put together'.
                    All you have to do when someone says 'that's all wrong' is
                    say 'Yeah, well, the Society is about making an ATTEMPT.' That shuts
                    the sharks up.

                    Morag the Barde
                    Shire of Agaricus, Kingdom of Lochac
                  • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                    ... My lady, Milica, and I will be there for morning court but will have to leave shortly after lunch. I m likely to be wearing teal pants and a tunic of
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 6, 2003
                      On Tuesday 06 May 2003 00:22, vujadea200@... wrote:
                      > I am from Ansteorra, but I will be at the Mid-Relm Coronation this
                      > weekend. Is anyone else going to be there? If so, it would be great to
                      > meet people who I see emails from all the time!!!!

                      My lady, Milica, and I will be there for morning court but will have to leave
                      shortly after lunch. I'm likely to be wearing teal pants and a tunic of
                      orange-ish yellow. For coronation I might actually wear my Pelican cloak,
                      something that I save for very formal occasions. Have to think about that
                      one.

                      By all means, please introduce yourself to us! We'd love to meet you, and it
                      would be a pleasure and an honor to welcome a guest from far lands to the
                      Middle Kingdom.

                      Justin

                      --
                      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                      Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
                      fesswise reversed sable.

                      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
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