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Household & such

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  • pandoradcat
    How does one go about finding & joining a household? I have trouble even locating households in my barony. Any help would be greatly appreciated- Ysabelot
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 12, 2003
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      How does one go about finding & joining a household? I have trouble even
      locating households in my barony. Any help would be greatly appreciated-
      Ysabelot Clarisse of An Tir
    • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
      ... My first advice is this: If you are new enough to the SCA that you need to ask the preceding question, then you should *not* join a household yet. That s
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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        On Monday 13 January 2003 00:23, pandoradcat wrote:
        > How does one go about finding & joining a household? I have trouble even
        > locating households in my barony. Any help would be greatly appreciated-
        > Ysabelot Clarisse of An Tir

        My first advice is this: "If you are new enough to the SCA that you need to
        ask the preceding question, then you should *not* join a household yet."

        That's the short answer. Now the long one:

        First, what is a household? A household is any two or more people who say
        they are a household. As far as the SCA is concerned, households are totally
        non-official entities, just groups of friends or people with common interests
        who decide they enjoy hanging out together. The College of Heralds *does*
        allow registration of names and badges, but they are "owned" by one of the
        household's members. Households can have revels and other gatherings but
        cannot actually host an officially sanctioned SCA event. (There is an
        exception to the last statement, but it's not relevant in this disussion.)

        Households can be a very Good Thing, a very Bad Thing, or both. Some of the
        households in the SCA, such as the Great Dark Horde, the Dark Horde
        Moritu, Darkyard, Stahlgeist, and many others, are renowned for their long
        years of dedicated service at Pennsic, Estrella, or other large events.
        There are households that form large military units and fight as allies with
        the Kingdoms of the Known World at various wars, and they acquit themselves
        with great honor. The Tuchux are noted as a fighting household, for example.

        At the same time, household membership can complicate one's loyalties. Most
        households have someone who is the "head" of the household. How that person
        is selected, the length of their term in office, and the limits on their
        authority, are not defined by the SCA. (Indeed, I myself am a member of a
        small household that chooses not to even have a leader!) There are not always
        the "checks and balances" against abuse of authority that exist in a more
        formalized structure such as the SCA. I've seen a few households that are
        really just "cults of personality" around a powerful, charismatic person
        who craves adulation from what he or she views as lesser beings. This is the
        exception, not the rule, but it does happen.

        In many cases, a household is formed by, and ruled by, a Peer of the Realm,
        that is, a Knight, Laurel, or Pelican. This is not required, and this is not
        always the situation. The founding Peer takes dependents (Squires, Apprentices,
        or Proteges, depending on the type of Peerage), and they become members of his
        or her household. Some day, they may become Peers in their own right, and they
        then can take dependents of their own -- but they usually still remain members
        of the "top" Peer's household. If they choose, they may form sub-households of
        their own, but again there is still (typically) a bond of loyalty to the
        original founding Peer. I refer to this, jokingly, as a Peeramid Scheme.

        Peeramids are not intrinsically "good" or "bad". They confer a lot of behind-
        the-scenes power to the person at the top, whom I refer to as a GOP (Grand
        Old Peer). Many GOPs use their power for Good, trying to help mediate conflict,
        sponsoring large projects, and leading the populace by example. Other GOPs,
        unfortunately, go on a power trip and let their egos lead them to the side of
        Evil. The problem is, what if you are somewhere near the bottom of one of these
        Peeramids, and you hold an office in the SCA? Your loyalties are now divided,
        and you can be led to a conflict of interest if your official duties impel you
        to do something with which the head of your household does not agree.

        Again, I'm not saying large or Peeramid households are always bad. In fact,
        there are (rarely) times when the organizational structure of the SCA itself
        gets out of kilter, in which case a couple of large households just may have
        the clout to bring the SCA's official leaders back into line with the wishes
        of the populace. But the opposite can also happen. It's a complex arrangement,
        indeed. Before you join a household, you need to be very sure that you know
        the person or persons in charge, and that you trust them deeply.

        My point in all this dissertation is that, as a newcomer, you don't yet really
        *know* very much about the members of a household. There are people who are
        quite open and friendly at events, and you may truly enjoy being with them.
        You don't have to join their household for this to happen. Friendships often
        do -- and by all means *should* -- cross household boundaries, shire
        boundaries, and even kingdom boundaries.

        Take my own situation, for example. I've been in the SCA for about 12 years.
        I am a member (actually, was one of the founders) of a small (fourteen people)
        household called Erevnite Asteron. If I limited myself to only hanging out
        with with members of my household, I'd have exactly twelve friends and one
        wife! I live in the Midrealm, but have friends in Ealdormere, Aethelmarc,
        Calontir, and Meridies, among other kingdoms. Some of my friends are members
        of some of the largest households in the Middle Kingdom, while others don't
        belong to any household at all. It just isn't that important to any of us.

        So, you might wonder why I joined (founded) a household at all. The reason is
        simply that, as our local shire grew, my wife and I and a few close friends
        decided that we wanted to camp at Pennsic in a more intimate circle of
        friends. We adore our shire, and are extremely loyal to it (as a matter of
        fact, we were among the original founders). But we wanted to camp in a smaller
        group, so we formed a household. We still play actively in the shire. If you
        came to a meeting of our shire, you would have a difficult time pointing out
        who is a member of Erevnite Asteron and who is not. Several of our household
        are, or have been, local shire officers. We're not trying to build an empire
        or take over anything -- we're just a group of very close friends who like
        to camp together at large events. And we do service projects together from
        time to time, usually anonymously.

        The friendships that led to the formation of Erevnite Asteron took years to
        build, in some cases decades. Joining a household is a great thing to do, if
        you find people with whom you share this kind of deep, trusting relationship.
        But those relationships don't happen instantly. Joining a household is an act
        that will have consequences for you for as long as you're in the SCA. Even if
        you later leave, you'll still be associated with that household in people's
        minds. "Oh, that's Lady Clarisse. She used to be a member of the Household
        of the Big Rattan Sword, but they had some kind of falling out and she left.
        Now I think she's a member of the Sisterhood of the Green Dragon."

        Take your time. Play in the SCA. Get involved in your local shire. Spend a
        couple of years (or more) really getting to know the people in your area,
        and meeting people at larger events who may not live nearby, but with whom you
        have a lot in common. Households are a great thing, but the one that's right
        for you as an individual may not be the one that's nearest to where you live.
        In the meantime, there are thousands of things to do that don't require
        membership in a household! If you really want to be a household member some
        day, being a very active SCA member is one of the things that will cause
        households to take notice of you and perhaps ask you to join.

        As one final piece of advice: If you're playing actively in your local shire
        or barony, and you begin to feel left out because you're not a member of a
        household, then there is a problem. Not with you, but with the shire. Talk
        with your Seneschal or Chatelaine if this happens, because households should
        be something that enriches the SCA groups, not something that suffocates
        them.

        It is certainly possible, as many thousands of SCAdians prove every day, to be
        loyal and active both in a shire and in a household. Take your time learning
        and growing in the SCA, and you'll be able to choose a household some day that
        will greatly enrich your SCA life without unduly complicating it.

        Welcome to the SCA! Please don't hesitate to write back to the list if I or
        anyone else can be of further assistance.

        Justin

        --
        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
        Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
        fesswise reversed sable.

        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
      • gypsycaine
        Justin s written a great essay on Households. I wanted to let you know that as a newbie, households *aren t* forbidden! In June, right after I celebrated my
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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          Justin's written a great essay on Households. I wanted to let you know that
          as a newbie, households *aren't* forbidden! In June, right after I
          celebrated my first year with SCA (quietly...grins at Justin!) my ex-fiancé
          and his family and I formed a household together. (House of the Night Owl)

          We already knew each other for years from outside the SCA realm, and
          compliment each other. I am not a cook--I admit it heartily. Mom gave me a
          crock pot this Christmas, and my cooking skills rose by 75%! Angelique, who
          is Jayne in persona, is an excellent cook. If the kids are kept out of the
          cooking area, she can do feasts. I like kids. I also do not mind terribly
          dishes and housework. Do you see the connection? smiles. Barry (and dang
          it, I can't recall how to spell your persona name, Bear!) is also great with
          kids. My son Ian is his god-child, and we take all 4 kids away from Jayne,
          let her cook, and work with them in boffer, or other activities, and she is
          happy, we're happy, and it works. The household is small: myself, Bear,
          Jayne, and the kids: Vincent, Nicholas, Alexander and Ian. We keep an open
          door in case anyone else is ever interested. Oh, one other interesting
          comment. Bear's family is from Gwyntarian. Ian and I are Alderford. We
          just crossed the shire boundary, but that's mainly because I moved from
          Akron to Canton in '98!

          Don't think that you "CAN'T" join a household, or even form a loose one with
          someone to help. I've heard tales of how Justin helps others in his
          household--he not only does the duties he's usually assigned at events, but
          assists with raising tents (esp. for his household members who cannot do it
          themselves), helps with the cooking, and the man likes doing dishes!

          You can see how he earned his much downplayed award, eh?

          I'm certain when the time comes to raise tents again in June in our Shire
          (Oaken Melee School), Bear will be there, and together he and I will kick
          out the job fast. Each of us knows the other's strengths and weaknesses,
          and that's the thrill of being a household. Working together as a team in
          one way or another.

          Mary Henline
          (Dee)
        • Caius Livius Germanicus, KSCA <eq_german
          ... wrote: ... need to ... yet. ... First off: AMEN Second off there are many alternatives to households. There should be lots of folks
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Iustinos Tekton called Justin
            <justin@4...> wrote:>
            > My first advice is this: "If you are new enough to the SCA that you
            need to
            > ask the preceding question, then you should *not* join a household
            yet."
            >
            First off: AMEN

            Second off there are many alternatives to households. There should be
            lots of folks available to assist you in learning stuff, building and
            sewing stuff and fostering you as a newcomer WITHOUT joining any
            group.

            Check with the local Branch Chatelaine and they should be able to
            direct you to the right folks.

            Beware any group that asks membership for knowledge. The cool folks
            will give it away freely. The ones that don't are usually not worth
            the knowledge gained.

            If you'd like I know several folks all over the area that may be able
            to assist you as well. Email me with you particulars and i'll see if
            there is anyone local to you willing to point you in a safe direction.

            Caius Livius Germanicus, KSCA
            :AnTir:
          • pandoradcat
            While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I am offended that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I will be lest apt
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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              While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I am offended
              that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I will be lest apt
              to post a question in the future if I post at all. I will deal with my own kingdom
              from now on. Thanks anyway-ysabelot PS By the way I am not new to SCA,
              Just come from a big kingdom & cant get to all the events
            • mablight <mablight@yahoo.com>
              I am de lurking to respond to this thread. I do not believe you have to be in the SCA for any certain period of time before joining a household. I joined a
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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                I am de lurking to respond to this thread.

                I do not believe you have to be in the SCA for any certain period of
                time before joining a household. I joined a household within 3
                months of becoming an SCA member, granted it happened to be the same
                household that my fiance is a member of.

                I think that as long as you have fun with the people in the
                household that you should try to join. If you find down the road
                that the fit was not as good as you originally thought, then find a
                new household.

                On the other hand, don't rush into a household just to have people
                to hang out with. I think you should get to know the people in the
                household and go from there.

                I am now going to resume lurk mode

                Katrine
                House Noctum Gladius
                Barony of Gyldenholt, Caid

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, pandoradcat <no_reply@y...>
                wrote:
                > While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I
                am offended
                > that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I
                will be lest apt
                > to post a question in the future if I post at all. I will deal
                with my own kingdom
                > from now on. Thanks anyway-ysabelot PS By the way I am not new
                to SCA,
                > Just come from a big kingdom & cant get to all the events
              • Shannon Prate
                I found the information given to be quite helpful to me as I am new and I had questions along those same lines. I agree that getting to know people first is a
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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                  I found the information given to be quite helpful to me as I am new and
                  I had questions along those same lines. I agree that getting to know
                  people first is a better way to go about it and am relieved to know
                  that joining a household isn't required. It will help me to better
                  find where I fit in to the big picture. Once again, thank you, as your
                  post was very helpful to me.

                  Grainne

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: pandoradcat <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Monday, January 13, 2003 6:55 pm
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Household & such

                  > <html><body>
                  >
                  >
                  > <tt>
                  > While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I
                  > am offended
                  >
                  > that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I
                  > will be lest apt
                  >
                  > to post a question in the future if I post at all. I will deal
                  > with my own kingdom
                  >
                  > from now on. Thanks anyway-ysabelot PS By the way I am not new
                  > to SCA,
                  >
                  > Just come from a big kingdom & cant get to all the events
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > </tt>
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                  >
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                  > <tt>
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >
                  > scanewcomers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                • Caius Livius Germanicus, KSCA <eq_german
                  ... offended ... will be lest apt ... my own kingdom ... to SCA, ... Salvete! Well, I am sincerely sorry you are offended at our responses. I m fairly certain
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 13, 2003
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                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, pandoradcat <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I am
                    offended
                    > that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I
                    will be lest apt
                    > to post a question in the future if I post at all. I will deal with
                    my own kingdom
                    > from now on. Thanks anyway-ysabelot PS By the way I am not new
                    to SCA,
                    > Just come from a big kingdom & cant get to all the events

                    Salvete!

                    Well, I am sincerely sorry you are offended at our responses. I'm
                    fairly certain no insult was intended. Your question was one that is
                    extremely common here coming from Newcomers (hence the name of the
                    group). I'm sure you can understand the confusion and the assumption.

                    Since you are experienced in the SCA and obviously fully aware of the
                    good and bad of Households in the SCA I can tell you that the only way
                    to join one is to find people you like and talk to them. If they are
                    part of a household then ask to join. If they are not, then maybe you
                    can make one of your own.

                    I would for the record like to reiterate that Newcomers should
                    seriously consider pause before joining any group before you know what
                    you are getting in to. Households are not bad. Nor are they good. Each
                    is simply a gathering of personalities of common purpose. Take your
                    time and find out what the true purpose is before joining. (True
                    purpose as opposed to professed purpose).

                    Respectfully,

                    Vale bene,

                    Caius Livius Germanicus
                  • Iustinos Tekton called Justin
                    ... I am truly sorry to have offended you, for that was certainly not my intent. And I salute you for speaking out directly on that point, for only because you
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 14, 2003
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                      On Monday 13 January 2003 20:55, pandoradcat wrote:
                      > While I appreciate your response to my question, I have to say I am
                      > offended that you said I should not join a household, because I am new. I
                      > will be lest apt to post a question in the future if I post at all. I will
                      > deal with my own kingdom from now on. Thanks anyway-ysabelot PS By the
                      > way I am not new to SCA, Just come from a big kingdom & cant get to all the
                      > events

                      I am truly sorry to have offended you, for that was certainly not my intent.
                      And I salute you for speaking out directly on that point, for only because you
                      did so do I now have the opportunity to apologize.

                      As someone else mentioned, I assumed since the question was posted on the
                      "newcomers" list that you were new to the SCA. Apparently, that was an
                      incorrect assumption and I therefore owe you an apology.

                      I stand by my assertion that people who *are* new to the SCA should not rush
                      into joining a household right away. It takes time to get to know people well
                      enough to know whether you belong in a close, long-term association with them,
                      which is what a household represents.

                      When you choose a household, you implicitly choose its members as friends, and
                      you may (or may not) be, by implication, choosing certain other households or
                      social circles as implied enemies. When you join a household, you associate
                      yourself with its reputation, for good or for ill. Isn't it a good idea to
                      understand the relationships of a household to other social groups in your
                      area, and to know something of the household's reputation among the general
                      populace, before making a commitment to that household? Gaining the knowledge
                      to make this kind of choice takes time. You, personally, have already gained
                      this knowledge, but a person who is new to the SCA will not have had time yet
                      to do so.

                      Since you are not new to the SCA, the issues above do not apply to you. You're
                      no doubt well acquainted with the local politics in your area, and so the
                      question simply becomes one of how do you, logistically speaking, actually go
                      about joining your chosen household. That process doesn't have a single answer,
                      because it differs from household to household. The SCA itself does not have
                      rules in this area, because households are not official branches of the SCA.

                      Kind regards,

                      Justin

                      --
                      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                      Maistor Iustinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable, on a chief dovetailed Or, two keys
                      fesswise reversed sable.

                      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                    • vujadea200@aol.com
                      I have my own 2 cents about a household. I agree with so many people so far. When joining the SCA, it is better get to know the workings of the society before
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 14, 2003
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                        I have my own 2 cents about a household. I agree with so many people so far.
                        When joining the SCA, it is better get to know the workings of the society
                        before joining a group that could hinder that. When new to the SCA, joining
                        the first household you come accross is generally a bad idea. Also, joining
                        a household is something that is not required. I would consider myself VERY
                        close with about 4 local households, and just recently joined one of them.
                        ONe drw back of joining a household when you are still unfammiliar with the
                        SCA is that you have to concentrate on getting to know the household, instead
                        of the SCA. I have one friend who continually calls our home baroness and
                        baron "king and queen" because he pledged hs first event, and is now busy
                        with working for his house.

                        I guess that might have been 3.5 cents, but oh well!!

                        Adena Terricsdotter


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