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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Newcomer name and lineage

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  • george marko
    I figured he would have some jewish background since the name Ezekial is Hebrew...I have not seen the name come up in any english name bases....If it is
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 1, 2002
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      I figured he would have some jewish background since the name Ezekial is Hebrew...I have not seen the name come up in any english name bases....If it is alright for him to be full english with no jewish background I have no problem with it...I just wanted to make sure using Ezekial would not create a snag in the naming process..I honestly have grown fond of the name..The Raines surname does have true english heritage..I have found the Coat of Arms (Black Shield w/ Silver Chevron between 3 silver lions rampant) Crest (Silver lion rampant) as well as latin motto (Judicium parium aut leges terrae) that went with it..I thought that using Ezekial as my first name would cause a problem
      My personas basic make up would be born in Kent, England, between 455-470 AD...the time of King Arthur Geoffrey of Monmouth..Grandfather is a knight with the past and previous King, father didnt want it and became a merchant (what kind of merchant still needs to be decided)..Ezekial wants to follow in his grandfathers footsteps, seeing I want to become a fighter and soon to be knight...I know alot has to be filled in especially when it comes to the specfics of the time period..money used, how they told time, manners, skills, historic event, hobbies, and so on..Am I on the right track or do major changes needed to be made? Thank you so much for your help with this Lady Morgan.

      Ezekial Raines
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: bronwynmgn@...
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:57 AM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Newcomer name and lineage


      In a message dated 8/31/2002 9:51:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:


      > The character would have been adopted by John and Elizabeth as a baby and
      > brought up English......he would have known very little of jewish
      > traditions, or language
      >
      >

      I understand that that was what you intended - What I was asking was, "Is
      this a plausible story: did English people ever adopt Jewish babies, or even
      know they existed to be adopted?" There was not such a thing as an adoption
      agency back then; most orphaned children would have been raised as a matter
      of course by other family members, other members of the local religious
      community to which they belonged, or at most placed with another family of
      the same religious persuasion through the intermediary of a cleric of the
      religion of their family. I don't see a Jewish rabbi handing a Jewish child
      over to a Christian couple to raise, nor a Christian cleric being involved
      with the adoptions of Jewish orphans.
      The concept of a couple being willing to adopt a child not of their race or
      religion is a very modern one, as is adoption as we understand it today. In
      period, someone might be legally granted wardship over the child (usually an
      heir or heiress of some means) by the courts, but would not necessarily
      consider them as their own child; the ward was someone whose lands they were
      to administer (and often skim as much profit off of as possible), before
      selling the marriage of the child to the highest bidder in terms of
      dowry/dower. People fought over the wardships of children who stood to
      inherit considerable lands and money, but a poor Jewish child? "That's the
      Jews' responsbility!"

      My statement about a Jew being raised in England being able to have a
      thorough grounding in English language, manners, and customs was a suggestion
      of a more plausible way in which a Jewish man would have that knowledge,
      rather than going through an implausible persona story, if it is essential
      that the persona be Jewish in race, but have a good knowledge of English
      manners, customs, and language.

      I think you have the makings a a well-rounded, truly focussed persona story,
      which is rare in the SCA, but basing that persona story on an implausible
      beginning, when there are other ways to have the persona have similar
      knowledge and skills, seems odd. Since it seems that you want the persona to
      have all the advantages of being raised English, I am not sure why you want
      the persona to be Jewish by race, since it does not seem that his Jewishness
      has any bearing on what he actually does in life.

      Brangwayna Morgan


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 9/2/2002 10:52:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 3, 2002
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        In a message dated 9/2/2002 10:52:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com writes:

        <<Thank you so much for your help with this Lady Morgan.>>

        Lady Brangwayna is actually the correct usage, since I don't (and can't by
        SCA rules) claim to hold the Morgan lands...

        > My personas basic make up would be born in Kent, England, between 455-470
        > AD...the time of King Arthur Geoffrey of Monmouth..Grandfather is a knight
        > with the past and previous King, father didnt want it and became a merchant
        > (what kind of merchant still needs to be decided)..Ezekial wants to follow
        > in his grandfathers footsteps, seeing I want to become a fighter and soon
        > to be knight...I know alot has to be filled in especially when it comes to
        > the specfics of the time period..money used, how they told time, manners,
        > skills, historic event, hobbies, and so on..Am I on the right track or do
        > major changes needed to be made? Thank you so much for your help with this
        > Lady Morgan.
        >
        >

        OK, we have a bigger problem here than whether or not you could register the
        name Ezekial Raines. You're not only possibly mixing cultural names, but
        cultural time periods as well.
        Hereditary surnames like Raines were extremely rare, if not totally unheard
        of, in the British Isles in the late 5th century AD. They didn't really come
        into play until at least the end of the 12th century, and even then they were
        not universal. Now, you could possibly still register (or use; names don't
        HAVE to be registered) Ezekial Raines (names are registered based on internal
        consistency of the name, and whether it is more important that it reflect a
        certain culture or a certain time period, and don't have to be justified to
        the persona) and dress and act as a 5th century Romano-Britain, but it would
        be like naming yourself Dweezil Zappa and playing a person from the American
        Revolutionary War era, or an Elizabethan nobleman - the name would be so far
        in the future from the character that it would never have happened. In that
        time period, you would most likely have had either a Celtic name or a Roman
        name. I'm not sure if there were any Jews in England in that time period.

        Also, in that time period the whole concept of the knight barely exists
        except as a mounted soldier; it certainly wasn't established to the point of
        being able to decline a knighthood and turn to another career. Turning down
        or buying your way out of a knighthood is much more a 14th century or later
        thing. In the 5th century, you would either have been a soldier or been
        something else, and not really had the choice one way or the other as you
        felt like it.

        I think you probably need to do some good historical reading on the late 5th
        century in Britain, and then think about whether it is the time period you
        want or the character you want, because the two don't seem to coincide. The
        character you are working on sounds much more like a 14th-16th century
        character. The cultures of the two times are so vastly different that a
        character from one would be drastically out of place in the other.

        Brangwayna Morgan


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