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Plausible stuff for a device?

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  • Arlen Andrew Donald
    So, I have a friend who is a Kingdom herald looking into this, but I thought I d throw it out here, too. I have an idea of what I would really like for a
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 4, 2013
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      So, I have a friend who is a Kingdom herald looking into this, but I thought I'd throw it out here, too.
      I have an idea of what I would really like for a device. (I went through a lot of things to come up with something I believe I'd still like to be blazoned on all of my possessions in twenty years.)
      At any rate, what I would really like, and forgive my lack of Blazon-speak:

      A yellow field with an 'enlarged' Scottish Highland Midge in the centre. In a circle around that, blood drops.
      Now - I know insects were used on plenty of devices and we have a lot of evidence for that. Likewise, there were working proto-microscopes in my period and I believe I could find mention of people examining small insects with them. I am even sure I have seen someone at an event with a Mosquito on their device. (Who knows if they had it registered, though.)

      By these standards, am I likely to get it through the college of arms? What am I going to need as evidence etc?



      --
       "It is the duty of a gentleman to know how to ride, to shoot, to fence, to box, to swim, to row and to dance. He should be graceful. If attacked by ruffians, a man should be able to defend himself, and also to defend women from their insults." --- Rules of Etiquette and Home Culture. 1886

      "The true gentleman is one who has been fashioned after the highest models... his qualities depend not on fashion or manners but upon moral worth -- not on personal possessions but upon personal qualities." --- Happy Homes and the Hearts that Make Them. 1882
    • D'vorah bint Da'ud
      ... More knowledgeable heralds than I am, please correct or confirm this assertion for me so I can learn: Since bees and wasps and flies are all in conflict
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 4, 2013
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        On 4 Oct 2013, at 11:00 AM, Arlen Andrew Donald <dreadgerbil@...> wrote:

        > A yellow field with an 'enlarged' Scottish Highland Midge in the centre. In a circle around that, blood drops.

        More knowledgeable heralds than I am, please correct or confirm this assertion for me so I can learn:

        Since bees and wasps and flies are all in conflict with one another, I'd bet the farm that midges would be considered similar enough to those to be in conflict with them as well. However, the fact that those first three ARE used in period devices and SCA devices means that it's not entirely out of the question for a midge to be on them as well.

        So, if you want a "similar to those things" insect on a device, just make sure that the device doesn't conflict with bees, wasps, or flies, and then… I'd say at least give it a try.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        D'vorah bint Da'ud
        Protégé to Meister Albrecht Waldfurster, OP
        Gyldenholt, Caid (Orange, CA)
        dvorah@...
        Twitter: @DvorahSCA
        Facebook: D'vorah bint Da'ud

        "Purpure, in chief three bees Or marked purpure and on a point pointed Or a bee purpure marked Or."
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      • Alison Choyce
        Hi! First off, your friend is going to probably give you the best information, if he/she is kingdom level. :) The rules have changed a little since when I was
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 5, 2013
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          Hi!

          First off, your friend is going to probably give you the best information, if he/she is kingdom level. :)

          The rules have changed a little since when I was a herald, they now lean towards more period style.

          The rules have always included limitations on complexity-I believe you have to keep it under a count of 8. And for your device you've got what sounds like 3 for the color (yellow ground, red drops, and whatever color your bug is). Then you also have to add into the count the charges on your device, you have 2, a primary charge (the bug), and a secondary (the drops). This would give you a count of 5, so you are OK there.

          There are also rules about what colors can go onto other colors. It sounds like you should be fine there. Yellow is a metal' (gold), and red is a 'color' which can be placed on the metal. You don't mention what color the bug is, but I am assuming it is not yellow or white (which is silver in heraldry).

          Next is whether the charges were period. They did put bugs on their armory, bees for instance were used, and spiders, amongst others. The question that you need to answer is whether the bug you want is known in period, and depicted anywhere in period. So a little research may need to happen, your friend may be doing some of this for you. To make the device more period, keeping the colors down to just two would be more period, so having your bug drawn the same color as your blood drops would have a much more period look.

          Third, and very important is the conflict check. This is something your friend should do for you. They need to look to see if there are already any registered devices that are too similar (historically the type of similarity that only family would have had) to the device you are proposing. If there are conflicts, your friend could help you look at making some minor changes that help clear the conflict.

          This is a link to an article I wrote a few years ago about creating heraldry. http://chatelaine.eastkingdom.org/documents/Heraldry.pdf

          Have fun with it, and Good luck!
          Alison Wodehalle
          East Kingdom


          On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Arlen Andrew Donald <dreadgerbil@...> wrote:
           

          So, I have a friend who is a Kingdom herald looking into this, but I thought I'd throw it out here, too.
          I have an idea of what I would really like for a device. (I went through a lot of things to come up with something I believe I'd still like to be blazoned on all of my possessions in twenty years.)
          At any rate, what I would really like, and forgive my lack of Blazon-speak:

          A yellow field with an 'enlarged' Scottish Highland Midge in the centre. In a circle around that, blood drops.
          Now - I know insects were used on plenty of devices and we have a lot of evidence for that. Likewise, there were working proto-microscopes in my period and I believe I could find mention of people examining small insects with them. I am even sure I have seen someone at an event with a Mosquito on their device. (Who knows if they had it registered, though.)

          By these standards, am I likely to get it through the college of arms? What am I going to need as evidence etc?



          --
           "It is the duty of a gentleman to know how to ride, to shoot, to fence, to box, to swim, to row and to dance. He should be graceful. If attacked by ruffians, a man should be able to defend himself, and also to defend women from their insults." --- Rules of Etiquette and Home Culture. 1886

          "The true gentleman is one who has been fashioned after the highest models... his qualities depend not on fashion or manners but upon moral worth -- not on personal possessions but upon personal qualities." --- Happy Homes and the Hearts that Make Them. 1882




          --
          ~Alison
        • arlen_andrew_donald
          Thanks for the info.I m trying to do as much research as possible on my own before formally submitting the thing so I appreciate all the help. Here is a very
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 9, 2013
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            Thanks for the info.I'm trying to do as much research as possible on my own before formally submitting the thing so I appreciate all the help. Here is a very rough approximation of what I'm looking for.


             http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Dreadgerbil/Device_zpsb2c83014.png


            The midge could easily enough be red instead of black though I prefer the look of the black one.



            ---In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            Hi!

            First off, your friend is going to probably give you the best information, if he/she is kingdom level. :)

            The rules have changed a little since when I was a herald, they now lean towards more period style.

            The rules have always included limitations on complexity-I believe you have to keep it under a count of 8. And for your device you've got what sounds like 3 for the color (yellow ground, red drops, and whatever color your bug is). Then you also have to add into the count the charges on your device, you have 2, a primary charge (the bug), and a secondary (the drops). This would give you a count of 5, so you are OK there.

            There are also rules about what colors can go onto other colors. It sounds like you should be fine there. Yellow is a metal' (gold), and red is a 'color' which can be placed on the metal. You don't mention what color the bug is, but I am assuming it is not yellow or white (which is silver in heraldry).

            Next is whether the charges were period. They did put bugs on their armory, bees for instance were used, and spiders, amongst others. The question that you need to answer is whether the bug you want is known in period, and depicted anywhere in period. So a little research may need to happen, your friend may be doing some of this for you. To make the device more period, keeping the colors down to just two would be more period, so having your bug drawn the same color as your blood drops would have a much more period look.

            Third, and very important is the conflict check. This is something your friend should do for you. They need to look to see if there are already any registered devices that are too similar (historically the type of similarity that only family would have had) to the device you are proposing. If there are conflicts, your friend could help you look at making some minor changes that help clear the conflict.

            This is a link to an article I wrote a few years ago about creating heraldry. http://chatelaine.eastkingdom.org/documents/Heraldry.pdf

            Have fun with it, and Good luck!
            Alison Wodehalle
            East Kingdom


            On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Arlen Andrew Donald <dreadgerbil@...> wrote:
             
            So, I have a friend who is a Kingdom herald looking into this, but I thought I'd throw it out here, too.
            I have an idea of what I would really like for a device. (I went through a lot of things to come up with something I believe I'd still like to be blazoned on all of my possessions in twenty years.)
            At any rate, what I would really like, and forgive my lack of Blazon-speak:

            A yellow field with an 'enlarged' Scottish Highland Midge in the centre. In a circle around that, blood drops.
            Now - I know insects were used on plenty of devices and we have a lot of evidence for that. Likewise, there were working proto-microscopes in my period and I believe I could find mention of people examining small insects with them. I am even sure I have seen someone at an event with a Mosquito on their device. (Who knows if they had it registered, though.)

            By these standards, am I likely to get it through the college of arms? What am I going to need as evidence etc?



            --
             "It is the duty of a gentleman to know how to ride, to shoot, to fence, to box, to swim, to row and to dance. He should be graceful. If attacked by ruffians, a man should be able to defend himself, and also to defend women from their insults." --- Rules of Etiquette and Home Culture. 1886

            "The true gentleman is one who has been fashioned after the highest models... his qualities depend not on fashion or manners but upon moral worth -- not on personal possessions but upon personal qualities." --- Happy Homes and the Hearts that Make Them. 1882



            --
            ~Alison
          • clairissa.digiovanni
            I have a question about device heraldry my husband and I are looking to submit/create a household should it differ from his device? I am making him the head.
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 8, 2013
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              I have a question about device heraldry my husband and I are looking to submit/create a household should it differ from his device? I am making him the head.

               



              ---In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <dreadgerbil@...> wrote:

              Thanks for the info.I'm trying to do as much research as possible on my own before formally submitting the thing so I appreciate all the help. Here is a very rough approximation of what I'm looking for.


               http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Dreadgerbil/Device_zpsb2c83014.png


              The midge could easily enough be red instead of black though I prefer the look of the black one.



              ---In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Hi!

              First off, your friend is going to probably give you the best information, if he/she is kingdom level. :)

              The rules have changed a little since when I was a herald, they now lean towards more period style.

              The rules have always included limitations on complexity-I believe you have to keep it under a count of 8. And for your device you've got what sounds like 3 for the color (yellow ground, red drops, and whatever color your bug is). Then you also have to add into the count the charges on your device, you have 2, a primary charge (the bug), and a secondary (the drops). This would give you a count of 5, so you are OK there.

              There are also rules about what colors can go onto other colors. It sounds like you should be fine there. Yellow is a metal' (gold), and red is a 'color' which can be placed on the metal. You don't mention what color the bug is, but I am assuming it is not yellow or white (which is silver in heraldry).

              Next is whether the charges were period. They did put bugs on their armory, bees for instance were used, and spiders, amongst others. The question that you need to answer is whether the bug you want is known in period, and depicted anywhere in period. So a little research may need to happen, your friend may be doing some of this for you. To make the device more period, keeping the colors down to just two would be more period, so having your bug drawn the same color as your blood drops would have a much more period look.

              Third, and very important is the conflict check. This is something your friend should do for you. They need to look to see if there are already any registered devices that are too similar (historically the type of similarity that only family would have had) to the device you are proposing. If there are conflicts, your friend could help you look at making some minor changes that help clear the conflict.

              This is a link to an article I wrote a few years ago about creating heraldry. http://chatelaine.eastkingdom.org/documents/Heraldry.pdf

              Have fun with it, and Good luck!
              Alison Wodehalle
              East Kingdom


              On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Arlen Andrew Donald <dreadgerbil@...> wrote:
               
              So, I have a friend who is a Kingdom herald looking into this, but I thought I'd throw it out here, too.
              I have an idea of what I would really like for a device. (I went through a lot of things to come up with something I believe I'd still like to be blazoned on all of my possessions in twenty years.)
              At any rate, what I would really like, and forgive my lack of Blazon-speak:

              A yellow field with an 'enlarged' Scottish Highland Midge in the centre. In a circle around that, blood drops.
              Now - I know insects were used on plenty of devices and we have a lot of evidence for that. Likewise, there were working proto-microscopes in my period and I believe I could find mention of people examining small insects with them. I am even sure I have seen someone at an event with a Mosquito on their device. (Who knows if they had it registered, though.)

              By these standards, am I likely to get it through the college of arms? What am I going to need as evidence etc?



              --
               "It is the duty of a gentleman to know how to ride, to shoot, to fence, to box, to swim, to row and to dance. He should be graceful. If attacked by ruffians, a man should be able to defend himself, and also to defend women from their insults." --- Rules of Etiquette and Home Culture. 1886

              "The true gentleman is one who has been fashioned after the highest models... his qualities depend not on fashion or manners but upon moral worth -- not on personal possessions but upon personal qualities." --- Happy Homes and the Hearts that Make Them. 1882



              --
              ~Alison
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