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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Ancient Greek Persona

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  • Bill Toscano
    There are a lot of people who pursue Greek personas, Count Ajax of the West being one of them. There honestly is no early cutoff date to the SCA, so have at
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 22, 2013
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      There are a lot of people who pursue  Greek personas, Count Ajax of the West being one of them.

      There honestly is no early cutoff date to  the SCA, so have at it. 

      I took a quick look for resources, and there are some great links here:

      http://www.romanarmytalk.com/19-greek-military-history-a-archaeology/37036-greek-sca-persona-needs-help.html


      On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Alison Choyce <greenfaere@...> wrote:
       

      Greetings and welcome!

      The time frame the SCA usually covers is often quoted as being approximately from the fall of the Roman Empire to approximately the death of Elizabeth I, or about 500 or 600 CE to about 1603 CE. A quick peek at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece)  tells me that Ancient Greece is ending just as our period is beginning. And Classical Greece flourished centuries earlier in the 5-6th century BCE. There are a few people who do a late Roman persona, so not impossible to have a 6th century Greek persona. I'm not sure what resources are out there, however, so this is just food for thought as you look into the time period.

      Best of luck on your search,
      Alison Wodehalle
      East Kingdom


      On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 2:26 PM, <jgmireles@...> wrote:
       

      Hello all,


      I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?




      --
      ~Alison


    • brangwayna
      Ancient Greek is pretty far outside the time frame the SCA covers. We are focused on the Medieval and Renaissance time period, roughly 400AD- 1600 AD. Where
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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        Ancient Greek is pretty far outside the time frame the SCA covers.  We are focused on the Medieval and Renaissance time period, roughly 400AD- 1600 AD.  Where are you located?  I know there are at least a few groups doing Roman Britain and that sort of thing, and I think there are some in the US doing Ancient Roman (not sure on that).  Someone here might know of a group that would better fit your interests.
         
        Brangwayna  Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA
        -----Original Message-----
        From: jgmireles <jgmireles@...>
        To: scanewcomers <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:53 pm
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Ancient Greek Persona

         
        Hello all,

        I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?
      • OP Etah d'Tana
        I would advise looking into early Byzantine culture which was heavily influenced by Greek culture and included Greece.
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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          I would advise looking into early Byzantine culture which was heavily influenced by Greek culture and included Greece.

        • Michael Peterson
          I once had heard it explained that you are in the Middle Ages pretending to be an Ancient Greek Breddelwyn
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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            I once had heard it explained that you are in the Middle Ages pretending to be an Ancient Greek'
            Breddelwyn


            On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:45 AM, <bronwynmgn@...> wrote:
             

            Ancient Greek is pretty far outside the time frame the SCA covers.  We are focused on the Medieval and Renaissance time period, roughly 400AD- 1600 AD.  Where are you located?  I know there are at least a few groups doing Roman Britain and that sort of thing, and I think there are some in the US doing Ancient Roman (not sure on that).  Someone here might know of a group that would better fit your interests.
             
            Brangwayna  Morgan
            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            Lancaster, PA
            -----Original Message-----
            From: jgmireles <jgmireles@...>
            To: scanewcomers <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:53 pm
            Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Ancient Greek Persona

             
            Hello all,

            I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?


          • elledreaming
            Welcome! If the SCA had to kick out everyone whose persona wasn t strictly medieval, it would be a much smaller group, indeed. I have lived in two kingdoms
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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              Welcome!


              If the SCA had to kick out everyone whose persona wasn't strictly medieval, it would be a much smaller group, indeed.


              I have lived in two kingdoms (Middle and Meridies) and my persona is Elizabethan Scottish - definitely outside the Middle Ages.  A number of SCA-sponsored activities throughout much, if not all, of the Known World are non-Medieval, Renaissance dance being just one example.  The date of 1603 (the death of Queen Elizabeth I) I have found to be about the only hard-and-fast cutoff in the society.


              In Meridies, our current king and queen are in ancient Roman persona.  I just attended Coronation, which included Their Majesties arriving on a chariot and with much of the populace there dressed in chitons (ancient Greek dress), peplos, togas and stolas.  It was great fun, and a refreshing change to learn about and play at a new (to me) culture -- and certainly cooler to dress that way in the Southern heat!  I have even seen a picture of someone at Pennsic dressed in ancient Egyptian garb (though I know of no-one else doing so).


              The average person living in the Middle Ages would likely have stared at the dress of a contemporary coming from a different country.  An easy way to deal with the time-traveling is as we did at Coronation - not remarking on the stranger dressed in 14th-century garb (which my husband wore, since he did not prefer to dress Roman), since certainly he or she was from a far-flung part of the empire (or kingdom, depending on the theme of the reign) and could bring interesting news and perhaps goods to share.


              Bottom line: I think you should go for it.  A number of people in our local group also have ancient Greek personas.  If you need more resources or just want to talk with someone else in that persona, I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.


              Elspeth Elphinstone



              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Hello all,

              I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?
            • hippy_dippy_dancer
              Elspeth , dearest Lady of grace and fashion, thou rockest! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ... From: Sender:
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                Elspeth , dearest Lady of grace and fashion, thou rockest!
                Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

                From: <elledreaming@...>
                Sender: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: 23 Sep 2013 08:03:13 -0700
                To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
                ReplyTo: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SCA Newcomers] RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                 

                Welcome!


                If the SCA had to kick out everyone whose persona wasn't strictly medieval, it would be a much smaller group, indeed.


                I have lived in two kingdoms (Middle and Meridies) and my persona is Elizabethan Scottish - definitely outside the Middle Ages.  A number of SCA-sponsored activities throughout much, if not all, of the Known World are non-Medieval, Renaissance dance being just one example.  The date of 1603 (the death of Queen Elizabeth I) I have found to be about the only hard-and-fast cutoff in the society.


                In Meridies, our current king and queen are in ancient Roman persona.  I just attended Coronation, which included Their Majesties arriving on a chariot and with much of the populace there dressed in chitons (ancient Greek dress), peplos, togas and stolas.  It was great fun, and a refreshing change to learn about and play at a new (to me) culture -- and certainly cooler to dress that way in the Southern heat!  I have even seen a picture of someone at Pennsic dressed in ancient Egyptian garb (though I know of no-one else doing so).


                The average person living in the Middle Ages would likely have stared at the dress of a contemporary coming from a different country.  An easy way to deal with the time-traveling is as we did at Coronation - not remarking on the stranger dressed in 14th-century garb (which my husband wore, since he did not prefer to dress Roman), since certainly he or she was from a far-flung part of the empire (or kingdom, depending on the theme of the reign) and could bring interesting news and perhaps goods to share.


                Bottom line: I think you should go for it.  A number of people in our local group also have ancient Greek personas.  If you need more resources or just want to talk with someone else in that persona, I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.


                Elspeth Elphinstone



                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Hello all,

                I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?
              • hippy_dippy_dancer
                Another thing. I am Lady Maria Beatriz la Mora of the fair Kingdom of Atlantia. I am also known as Khalillah bint Timur. Although my name is spanish frm the
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                  Another thing. I am Lady Maria Beatriz la Mora of the fair Kingdom of Atlantia. I am also known as Khalillah bint Timur. Although my name is spanish frm the time in my first years in the SCA when quite frankly I was intimidated into thinking that any choices for personas not firmly in the EUROPEAN middle ages would not pass and for sure look funny at events. So I dressed early spanish italian ren aNd chose a name accordingly. Then I started. Researchin the silk road aNd north africa. Did you know Tunisia,Morocco . The Berbers in general , the ancient greeks, the romans the early celts and even the norse(vikings) have something in the toga/bog dress/ chitan/haik/melea family? And tHe northafricaNs STILL use em? As far as the women are concerned they ALL start out with a large piece of cloth or 2 joined at the shoulders with "womwns" pins that are tHeir dowery / most prized posessions.
                  I could go on, but sweetie -I've been in going on 24 years nOw and one locations middle ages ia Anothers golden age. Wht ever fits tthe dates (comeon 1000 years already) will prettymuch work.
                  Ps
                  SpenT all pennnsic working with a LOVELY woman who does exclusively Roman and who is both a court baroness and a laurel , from Trimaris I believe. Allowed?heck yeah
                  Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

                  From: <elledreaming@...>
                  Sender: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: 23 Sep 2013 08:03:13 -0700
                  To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SCA Newcomers] RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                   

                  Welcome!


                  If the SCA had to kick out everyone whose persona wasn't strictly medieval, it would be a much smaller group, indeed.


                  I have lived in two kingdoms (Middle and Meridies) and my persona is Elizabethan Scottish - definitely outside the Middle Ages.  A number of SCA-sponsored activities throughout much, if not all, of the Known World are non-Medieval, Renaissance dance being just one example.  The date of 1603 (the death of Queen Elizabeth I) I have found to be about the only hard-and-fast cutoff in the society.


                  In Meridies, our current king and queen are in ancient Roman persona.  I just attended Coronation, which included Their Majesties arriving on a chariot and with much of the populace there dressed in chitons (ancient Greek dress), peplos, togas and stolas.  It was great fun, and a refreshing change to learn about and play at a new (to me) culture -- and certainly cooler to dress that way in the Southern heat!  I have even seen a picture of someone at Pennsic dressed in ancient Egyptian garb (though I know of no-one else doing so).


                  The average person living in the Middle Ages would likely have stared at the dress of a contemporary coming from a different country.  An easy way to deal with the time-traveling is as we did at Coronation - not remarking on the stranger dressed in 14th-century garb (which my husband wore, since he did not prefer to dress Roman), since certainly he or she was from a far-flung part of the empire (or kingdom, depending on the theme of the reign) and could bring interesting news and perhaps goods to share.


                  Bottom line: I think you should go for it.  A number of people in our local group also have ancient Greek personas.  If you need more resources or just want to talk with someone else in that persona, I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.


                  Elspeth Elphinstone



                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Hello all,

                  I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?
                • elledreaming
                  Gentle Lady la Mora, In truth, your kindness but speaketh well of milady. Your servant is honored; still, strove only to speak plain. I am sorry that happened
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                    Gentle Lady la Mora,


                    In truth, your kindness but speaketh well of milady.  Your servant is honored; still, strove only to speak plain.


                    I am sorry that happened to you in your early years, but glad you were able to create an alternate persona.  I am encouraging my daughter to look into a Japanese persona, since that is the culture she is most interested in.  Speaking for myself, I think non-European personas add a cosmopolitan flavor to events that enhances the experience.


                    I look forward to meeting you at some future event, perhaps War of the Wings.


                    Yours in service to the Dream,

                    Elspeth




                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Another thing. I am Lady Maria Beatriz la Mora of the fair Kingdom of Atlantia. I am also known as Khalillah bint Timur. Although my name is spanish frm the time in my first years in the SCA when quite frankly I was intimidated into thinking that any choices for personas not firmly in the EUROPEAN middle ages would not pass and for sure look funny at events. So I dressed early spanish italian ren aNd chose a name accordingly. Then I started. Researchin the silk road aNd north africa. Did you know Tunisia,Morocco . The Berbers in general , the ancient greeks, the romans the early celts and even the norse(vikings) have something in the toga/bog dress/ chitan/haik/melea family? And tHe northafricaNs STILL use em? As far as the women are concerned they ALL start out with a large piece of cloth or 2 joined at the shoulders with "womwns" pins that are tHeir dowery / most prized posessions.
                    I could go on, but sweetie -I've been in going on 24 years nOw and one locations middle ages ia Anothers golden age. Wht ever fits tthe dates (comeon 1000 years already) will prettymuch work.
                    Ps
                    SpenT all pennnsic working with a LOVELY woman who does exclusively Roman and who is both a court baroness and a laurel , from Trimaris I believe. Allowed?heck yeah
                    Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

                    From: <elledreaming@...>
                    Sender: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: 23 Sep 2013 08:03:13 -0700
                    To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
                    ReplyTo: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SCA Newcomers] RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                     

                    Welcome!


                    If the SCA had to kick out everyone whose persona wasn't strictly medieval, it would be a much smaller group, indeed.


                    I have lived in two kingdoms (Middle and Meridies) and my persona is Elizabethan Scottish - definitely outside the Middle Ages.  A number of SCA-sponsored activities throughout much, if not all, of the Known World are non-Medieval, Renaissance dance being just one example.  The date of 1603 (the death of Queen Elizabeth I) I have found to be about the only hard-and-fast cutoff in the society.


                    In Meridies, our current king and queen are in ancient Roman persona.  I just attended Coronation, which included Their Majesties arriving on a chariot and with much of the populace there dressed in chitons (ancient Greek dress), peplos, togas and stolas.  It was great fun, and a refreshing change to learn about and play at a new (to me) culture -- and certainly cooler to dress that way in the Southern heat!  I have even seen a picture of someone at Pennsic dressed in ancient Egyptian garb (though I know of no-one else doing so).


                    The average person living in the Middle Ages would likely have stared at the dress of a contemporary coming from a different country.  An easy way to deal with the time-traveling is as we did at Coronation - not remarking on the stranger dressed in 14th-century garb (which my husband wore, since he did not prefer to dress Roman), since certainly he or she was from a far-flung part of the empire (or kingdom, depending on the theme of the reign) and could bring interesting news and perhaps goods to share.


                    Bottom line: I think you should go for it.  A number of people in our local group also have ancient Greek personas.  If you need more resources or just want to talk with someone else in that persona, I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.


                    Elspeth Elphinstone



                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Hello all,

                    I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?
                  • Zara H
                    A mid-evil member of a Aristotelian Reenactment Society as it were? ... -- There are women I ve been who you haven t seen yet There are women I shall be who
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                      A mid-evil member of a Aristotelian Reenactment Society as it were? 


                      On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Michael Peterson <breddelwyn@...> wrote:
                       

                      I once had heard it explained that you are in the Middle Ages pretending to be an Ancient Greek'
                      Breddelwyn


                      On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:45 AM, <bronwynmgn@...> wrote:
                       

                      Ancient Greek is pretty far outside the time frame the SCA covers.  We are focused on the Medieval and Renaissance time period, roughly 400AD- 1600 AD.  Where are you located?  I know there are at least a few groups doing Roman Britain and that sort of thing, and I think there are some in the US doing Ancient Roman (not sure on that).  Someone here might know of a group that would better fit your interests.
                       
                      Brangwayna  Morgan
                      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                      Lancaster, PA
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jgmireles <jgmireles@...>
                      To: scanewcomers <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:53 pm
                      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Ancient Greek Persona

                       
                      Hello all,

                      I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources.  Does anyone here have any advice?





                      --
                      "There are women I've been who you haven't seen yet
                      There are women I shall be who you've never met
                      As to who I am now if you're prompted to ask
                      I'm the ghost of my future and the sum of my past"-
                      Talis Kimberley:Small Mended Corners

                    • ladyfeithline
                      If you can do it, do it well and do it correctly then go for it.  I have seen folks doing Native American since there was contact between europe and the new
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                        If you can do it, do it well and do it correctly then go for it. �I have seen folks doing Native American since there was contact between europe and the new world. �They keep it to tribes from the time, dress in strictly native clothing and not the wild west type stuff. � Other people think middle eastern is not a proper persona. �It really depends on who you talk to. �Even the cut off date differs. �Some say before Henry the VIII and Elizabeth others say after Elizabeth death. �::shrug:: �do it up and do not let nay sayers get you down about it.�



                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

                        Hello all,

                        I am wanting to do an ancient Greek persona, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed, and if it is I am lost as to where to find some good resources. �Does anyone here have any advice?
                      • Alison Choyce
                        Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 23, 2013
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                          Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                          Cheers,
                          Alison
                          EK

                          Quoth Corpora:

                          The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.

                          As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.

                          For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.




                        • sadiradarkstar
                          This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona. I was very fortunate that my name
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013
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                            This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.

                             

                            I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.

                             

                            As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.

                             

                            But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.

                             

                            First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.

                             

                            The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 

                             

                            And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...

                             

                            In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".

                             

                            As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...

                             

                            Damn!  I've practically written a book!

                             

                            What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.

                             

                            The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.

                             

                            I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.

                             

                             And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!

                             

                            Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid



                             


                            From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                             

                            Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                            Cheers,
                            Alison
                            EK

                            Quoth Corpora:

                            The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.

                            As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.

                            For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.




                          • Bill Toscano
                            I found this on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/133070303526175/
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
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                              On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
                               

                              This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.

                               

                              I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.

                               

                              As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.

                               

                              But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.

                               

                              First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.

                               

                              The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 

                               

                              And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...

                               

                              In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".

                               

                              As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...

                               

                              Damn!  I've practically written a book!

                               

                              What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.

                               

                              The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.

                               

                              I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.

                               

                               And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!

                               

                              Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid



                               


                              From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                               

                              Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                              Cheers,
                              Alison
                              EK

                              Quoth Corpora:

                              The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.

                              As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.

                              For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.





                            • elle dreaming
                              Ancient SCA!  Ancient Greek and Roman SCA heavies and their consorts!  I love it. I just joined the group (it s open) in order to learn more.  Thanks for
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ancient SCA!  Ancient Greek and Roman SCA heavies and their consorts!  I love it.

                                I just joined the group (it's open) in order to learn more.  Thanks for posting this, Liam.

                                -Elspeth



                                From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:25 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                 


                                On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
                                 
                                This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.
                                 
                                I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.
                                 
                                As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.
                                 
                                But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.
                                 
                                First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.
                                 
                                The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 
                                 
                                And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...
                                 
                                In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".
                                 
                                As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...
                                 
                                Damn!  I've practically written a book!
                                 
                                What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.
                                 
                                The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.
                                 
                                I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.
                                 
                                 And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!
                                 
                                Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid


                                 

                                From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                 
                                Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                                Cheers,
                                Alison
                                EK

                                Quoth Corpora:
                                The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.
                                As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.
                                For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.






                              • Bill Toscano
                                It s what I do. ;)
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  It's what I do. ;)


                                  On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, elle dreaming <elledreaming@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Ancient SCA!  Ancient Greek and Roman SCA heavies and their consorts!  I love it.

                                  I just joined the group (it's open) in order to learn more.  Thanks for posting this, Liam.

                                  -Elspeth



                                  From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:25 PM

                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                   


                                  On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.
                                   
                                  I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.
                                   
                                  As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.
                                   
                                  But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.
                                   
                                  First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.
                                   
                                  The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 
                                   
                                  And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...
                                   
                                  In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".
                                   
                                  As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...
                                   
                                  Damn!  I've practically written a book!
                                   
                                  What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.
                                   
                                  The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.
                                   
                                  I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.
                                   
                                   And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!
                                   
                                  Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid


                                   

                                  From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                   
                                  Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                                  Cheers,
                                  Alison
                                  EK

                                  Quoth Corpora:
                                  The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.
                                  As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.
                                  For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.







                                • Alison Choyce
                                  That is cool! ... -- ~Alison
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    That is cool!


                                    On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...> wrote:
                                     



                                    On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.

                                     

                                    I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.

                                     

                                    As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.

                                     

                                    But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.

                                     

                                    First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.

                                     

                                    The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 

                                     

                                    And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...

                                     

                                    In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".

                                     

                                    As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...

                                     

                                    Damn!  I've practically written a book!

                                     

                                    What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.

                                     

                                    The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.

                                     

                                    I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.

                                     

                                     And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!

                                     

                                    Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid



                                     


                                    From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                     

                                    Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Alison
                                    EK

                                    Quoth Corpora:

                                    The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.

                                    As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.

                                    For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.








                                    --
                                    ~Alison
                                  • sadiradarkstar
                                    Ooooh, that is a neat group!! Thanks for linking that - I m sure that the person who first asked about the ancient Greek persona will find that VERY useful!!
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 27, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Ooooh, that is a neat group!!

                                       

                                      Thanks for linking that - I'm sure that the person who first asked about the ancient Greek persona will find that VERY useful!!

                                       

                                      I'm going to mark it, myself.

                                       

                                      Neat!

                                      Zid


                                      From: "Bill Toscano" <liamstliam@...>
                                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:25:46 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                       



                                      On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      This discussion fascinates me, since I chose & have registered a 6th-century Berber [Imazighen or Tamazight] persona.

                                       

                                      I was very fortunate that my 'name' passed the registration process on the first try.

                                       

                                      As someone previously stated in this discussion, there are some strong similarities between the Berbers of North Africa & the ancient Greeks.  If I recall my research into the Berbers correctly (I'm afraid I've goofed off for a few years - must get back to playing!),  there was interaction between some of the Berber tribal groups & the Greeks before the Etruscans & Romans arose as powers to be dealt with in the Mediterranean.

                                       

                                      But please don't quote me on that - I would need to go back & research further.

                                       

                                      First of all, SOME of the Berber tribes had garb that was very close to the Grecian "doric" chiton.  Someone else pointed out that some of the Berber tribes still wear such garb to this day.

                                       

                                      The Berber artwork - their decorations on their pottery & woven goods such as rugs - is much, much closer to the primitive geometric art of very early Greece.  Visually it's much closer to the geometric symbolisms of the Native Americans of the American Southwest, which proved a bit of a problem when I tried to register my device - I wanted a 'toothed', horizontal black diamond on a red background, but it was rejected on the basis that it looked too much like Hopi or Navajo rugwork! 

                                       

                                      And yet I was able to provide a sample of such from Berber artifacts of the period I wanted to position my persona in...  As one of my friends said, there's more to the approval process than just proving the design existed at that time...

                                       

                                      In fact, I've often wondered whether the desert southwest Native Americans were influenced by their Spanish conquerors, who may have brought Spanish weaving with designs inspired by Berber geometric art, to that area, as Spain was conquered by groups including Berber Muslims and was ruled for around 100 years by royalty derived from the Berbers or "Moors".

                                       

                                      As I understand it from others who have Turkish personas, the geometric designs are very common in earlier Turkish culture, too, so that may have been another source.  Or as a friend of mine pointed out, when humans first begin making scratches for decoration, they tend to begin with geometric marks as such are easier to make.  But then there's the artwork in those caves in southern France...

                                       

                                      Damn!  I've practically written a book!

                                       

                                      What is it that you are most attracted to, about the Greek culture?  I agree with those who have said, go ahead & create your persona, making sure it's accurate & authentic.  But if I were in your shoes and for some reason couldn't or chose not to create the ancient Greek persona, then I'd make a list of the characteristics that I liked in the ancient Greek culture - persona - and then look around for the closest match.

                                       

                                      The Berbers wear similar clothes, but they don't have too much else in common with the Greeks, though for a woman choosing a Middle Eastern type of persona, I'd strongly recommend the Berbers - they were quite egalitarian and equal-minded for the day, when compared to other Middle Eastern cultures around them.  But many of the Berber tribes are nomadic tent dwellers.  Other Berber groups live in mud-brick villages that also bear some resemblance to the adobe works of the American desert southwest - not related, but interesting parallel evolution.

                                       

                                      I deliberately positioned my persona just prior to the Muslim invasion, just to be sure, but apparently the Berber Muslims had the custom of including older women of the tribe in tribal councils, as late as the 19th century - of course, it varies from tribe to tribe, depending on how rigidly they cleave to Islam.

                                       

                                       And the Berber garb is SO COOL in the summertime!!!

                                       

                                      Best of luck with your efforts!!  Zid



                                       


                                      From: "Alison Choyce" <greenfaere@...>
                                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:17:19 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] RE: RE: Ancient Greek Persona

                                       

                                      Corpora is firm on the cutoff date at the end of our period, we recreate pre-17th century with a concentration in Medieval and Renaissance western European culture. The beginning date, as well as other cultures included, are found within the mists of time... I have put the quote from Corpora below. Greek is within what we cover, though you may find it worthwhile the section below.

                                      Cheers,
                                      Alison
                                      EK

                                      Quoth Corpora:

                                      The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society is a 501(c)3 Educational Not-for-Profit organization devoted to the study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take place in the context of a social structure adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows participants to take a first-hand look at various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under study.

                                      As a living history group, the Society provides an environment in which members can recreate various aspects of the culture and technology of the period, as well as doing more traditional historical research. We sponsor events such as tournaments and feasts where members dress in clothing styles worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and participate in activities based on the civil and martial skills of the period. These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes, and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our events and activities.

                                      For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests-like any long-term visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find around you.





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