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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Names

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  • Sevika Balachandra
    P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and checking with the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you wish to have
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 22 7:02 AM
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      P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and checking with
      the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you
      wish to have your persona's name registered. It's not technically necessary
      to do all that to start using it. A lot of people never register their
      personas' names.


      On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Sevika Balachandra <
      sevikabalachandra@...> wrote:

      > P.S. Sorry--I meant noblewoman, not nobleman.
      >
      >
      > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Sevika Balachandra <
      > sevikabalachandra@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Greetings,
      >>
      >> Aoife MacMurrough was the name of a 12th-century Irish nobleman, the
      >> daughter of Dermot MacMurrough and Mor O'Toole. You'll have to do a little
      >> research and documentation and check with the college of heralds to see if
      >> you can use it. Do you know who your local herald is? Someone from your
      >> local group, or your barony?
      >>
      >> These are the sources that Wikipedia cites that mention Aoife
      >> MacMurrough...
      >>
      >> O Croinin, Daibhi (1995) *Early Medieval Ireland 400-1200* London:
      >> Longman Press; p. 28
      >> Salmonson, Jessica Amanda.(1991) *The Encyclopedia of Amazons. Paragon
      >> House*. Page 160. ISBN <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/1557784205>
      >> 1-55778-420-5<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/1557784205>
      >> Weis, Frederick Lewis *Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who
      >> Came to America Before 1700*, Lines: 66-26, 175-7, 261-30
      >>
      >> Sincerely,
      >>
      >> Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla
      >>
      >>
      >> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 1:20 PM, artemisdium85 <artemisdium85@...>wrote:
      >>
      >>> **
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> I'm just getting started in the SCA and looking at names/personas. I was
      >>> wanting to be irish/gaelic. Something in there. I was looking at the name
      >>> Aoife. Does anyone know anything about this name? It's history. If it's
      >>> expectable and the time period it came around. Thank You.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stefan li Rous
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 22 1:17 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        <<< I'm just getting started in the SCA and looking at names/personas. I was wanting to be irish/gaelic. Something in there. I was looking at the name Aoife. Does anyone know anything about this name? It's history. If it's expectable and the time period it came around. >>>

        I've known of at least two people using the name "Aoife" in the SCA, so I suspect it is okay. I don't know the details or their time period though. Also, just because someone got approval in the past doesn't mean a name is still valid as research is ongoing and the rules can change from time to time.

        I would look up the St. Gabriel site for name verification and proof. I stopped adding a lot of name information to the Florilegium when that site got developed. It is run by some of the SCA heraldry folks.

        As you are new, I would also recommend that you take a look at some of the files in the NEWCOMERS section of the Florilegium. Some that seem to meet your current inquiry include:

        Choose-a-Name-art (12K) 10/ 3/09 "Choosing a Society Name: Hints for Newcomers" by Dietmar Reinhart von Straubing and Malachias von Morgenstern.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/NEWCOMERS/Choose-a-Name-art.html

        names-FAQ (14K) 5/ 8/96 Choosing and registering names in the SCA.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/NEWCOMERS/names-FAQ.html

        Persna-Devlop-art (12K) 1/26/11 "Some Thoughts on Persona Development" by Domna Liutgard of Luxeuil (O.L.)
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/NEWCOMERS/Persna-Devlop-art.html

        Persona-101-art (8K) 4/19/08 "Persona 101" by L. Kyleena of the Ansteorran Rom.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/NEWCOMERS/Persona-101-art.html

        Persona-4-NC-art (6K) 4/ 2/13 "Persona, do I need one?
" by Lady Alison Wodehalle.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/NEWCOMERS/Persona-4-NC-art.html

        Ireland-lnks (20K) 12/25/03 Web links to medieval Ireland by Dame Aoife Finn of Ynos Mon.
        (notice the author's name. This is one of the "Aoife"s I know.)
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/Ireland-lnks.html

        Ireland-msg (76K) 1/10/10 Irish culture, dress. Points of interest.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/Ireland-msg.html

        In the FOOD-BY-REGION section:
        fd-Ireland-msg (87K) 3/25/13 Medieval Irish food. references. recipes.
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Iceland-msg.html

        I hope these give you a start. There are also lots of other files in the Florilegium that might be of interest to you as well, depending upon what draws you to the SCA.

        Stefan
        --------
        THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
        Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
        **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
      • Stefan li Rous
        Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla commented:
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 23 9:09 PM
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          Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla commented:
          <<< P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and checking with
          the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you
          wish to have your persona's name registered. It's not technically necessary
          to do all that to start using it. A lot of people never register their
          personas' names. >>>

          Yes, you can use a name that you haven't registered or isn't registerable.

          However, I would think carefully before you do such a thing.

          In fact, I would hold off using a name until you have a good idea it *can* be registered.

          Even more I would make sure that SOMEONE ELSE hasn't registered a name before you start to use it. With the registered names online this is a fairly easy thing to do these days. When I registered my name, checking it involved getting and checking through a half-dozen floppy disks to make sure that it wasn't already registered. :-)

          But don't wait too long. Folks in the Society have a way of making up their own name for you, if you wait too long. Ask John the Plain (who answered, "I'm just plain John") or Eve the Just (who had said "I'm just Eve"). She is now after a number of years trying change that to Astridr.

          One thing to keep in mind is that at first, you really only need a first name. You can get along with just that for a while. My AoA scroll says "Stephan of Bryn Gwlad", because at that time, a year into playing in the Society, I hadn't picked a last name yet. And as you can see, the spelling changed also, but spelling was often rather irregular in period. There is at least one document where the same person's name is spelled three different ways, on the same document.

          Some people will wish to use a nickname that they've already been using outside of the SCA. Even if you can't find that name used in your time period in your region, sometimes you can come up with formal name which is close, but still use the nickname for informal use. Sometimes folks have found their nickname used as a last name, but not as a first name, and will register the name that way. Lalla, is that what you did?

          This can mean that, even if it passes the heralds as being period, you have an odd name, in that while it was used in period, it would be rather odd to hear it in your chosen period. The same goes with mixing first and last names. Today it would be strange to be Kennedy John or Bush George.

          Also remember that if you choose a difficult to read and pronounce name, even if the heralds are good and try their best, you may hear many different pronunciations in Court. :-)

          While you can always change your persona name later, the longer and wider you are known by that name the harder it will be to change it later.

          Since you rarely write your name on a lot of objects in ways that can't be changed later, using a name and then having to register a different spelling or different name seldom causes real pain.

          However, I would definitely hold off painting or carving your heraldic device on items until after you have that officially registered!

          Stefan

          --------
          THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
          Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
          http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
          **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
        • Sevika Balachandra
          Stefan, only one person aside from me uses Lalleshwari. My persona is named after a 15th century Kashmiri poetess. The Muslims called her Lalla. I was not
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 24 11:59 AM
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            Stefan, only one person aside from me uses "Lalleshwari." My persona is
            named after a 15th century Kashmiri poetess. The Muslims called her
            "Lalla." I was not originally aware that this was a Muslim name and not
            simply a nickname, so when people began to give up (immediately) on
            pronouncing "Lalleshwari," I told them "Lalla" was fine. One of my friends
            picked it up, started pronouncing it "Lahl-lah" (it's supposed to be
            pronounced more like "Lull" as in "lullaby,") it made the rounds, and now
            it's what most people call me. I don't have the power to change it at this
            point and even if I did, they're my friends, and I don't want to argue
            every time they call my name. Also, as a woman told me at my last event,
            "sometimes the nickname chooses you."

            However, I have not registered my persona's name in any form yet. I plan to
            bring documentation and look into doing so at Pennsic. I've been playing
            since February this year and I've been an official member since earlier
            this month.

            Locally, we have a Lady who has been a member for many years, and she had
            some difficulty registering her name at first, but it happened after a few
            years. Sometimes heralds disagree.

            "There is at least one document where the same person's name is spelled
            three different ways, on the same document."

            HA ^ :) this makes me happy.

            Sincerely,

            Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla


            On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous@...
            > wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla commented:
            >
            > <<< P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and checking
            > with
            > the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you
            > wish to have your persona's name registered. It's not technically necessary
            > to do all that to start using it. A lot of people never register their
            > personas' names. >>>
            >
            > Yes, you can use a name that you haven't registered or isn't registerable.
            >
            > However, I would think carefully before you do such a thing.
            >
            > In fact, I would hold off using a name until you have a good idea it *can*
            > be registered.
            >
            > Even more I would make sure that SOMEONE ELSE hasn't registered a name
            > before you start to use it. With the registered names online this is a
            > fairly easy thing to do these days. When I registered my name, checking it
            > involved getting and checking through a half-dozen floppy disks to make
            > sure that it wasn't already registered. :-)
            >
            > But don't wait too long. Folks in the Society have a way of making up
            > their own name for you, if you wait too long. Ask John the Plain (who
            > answered, "I'm just plain John") or Eve the Just (who had said "I'm just
            > Eve"). She is now after a number of years trying change that to Astridr.
            >
            > One thing to keep in mind is that at first, you really only need a first
            > name. You can get along with just that for a while. My AoA scroll says
            > "Stephan of Bryn Gwlad", because at that time, a year into playing in the
            > Society, I hadn't picked a last name yet. And as you can see, the spelling
            > changed also, but spelling was often rather irregular in period. There is
            > at least one document where the same person's name is spelled three
            > different ways, on the same document.
            >
            > Some people will wish to use a nickname that they've already been using
            > outside of the SCA. Even if you can't find that name used in your time
            > period in your region, sometimes you can come up with formal name which is
            > close, but still use the nickname for informal use. Sometimes folks have
            > found their nickname used as a last name, but not as a first name, and will
            > register the name that way. Lalla, is that what you did?
            >
            > This can mean that, even if it passes the heralds as being period, you
            > have an odd name, in that while it was used in period, it would be rather
            > odd to hear it in your chosen period. The same goes with mixing first and
            > last names. Today it would be strange to be Kennedy John or Bush George.
            >
            > Also remember that if you choose a difficult to read and pronounce name,
            > even if the heralds are good and try their best, you may hear many
            > different pronunciations in Court. :-)
            >
            > While you can always change your persona name later, the longer and wider
            > you are known by that name the harder it will be to change it later.
            >
            > Since you rarely write your name on a lot of objects in ways that can't be
            > changed later, using a name and then having to register a different
            > spelling or different name seldom causes real pain.
            >
            > However, I would definitely hold off painting or carving your heraldic
            > device on items until after you have that officially registered!
            >
            >
            > Stefan
            >
            > --------
            > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
            > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
            > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
            > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ian Green
            Just a note, registering names and devices at Pennsic while very convenient and you get excellent advice, does have a much longer processing time than if you
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 8, 2013
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              Just a note, registering names and devices at Pennsic while very convenient
              and you get excellent advice, does have a much longer processing time than
              if you do it through your own Kingdom's heraldic channels.

              Yours in Service,

              Ian the Green

              On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Sevika Balachandra <
              sevikabalachandra@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Stefan, only one person aside from me uses "Lalleshwari." My persona is
              > named after a 15th century Kashmiri poetess. The Muslims called her
              > "Lalla." I was not originally aware that this was a Muslim name and not
              > simply a nickname, so when people began to give up (immediately) on
              > pronouncing "Lalleshwari," I told them "Lalla" was fine. One of my friends
              > picked it up, started pronouncing it "Lahl-lah" (it's supposed to be
              > pronounced more like "Lull" as in "lullaby,") it made the rounds, and now
              > it's what most people call me. I don't have the power to change it at this
              > point and even if I did, they're my friends, and I don't want to argue
              > every time they call my name. Also, as a woman told me at my last event,
              > "sometimes the nickname chooses you."
              >
              > However, I have not registered my persona's name in any form yet. I plan to
              > bring documentation and look into doing so at Pennsic. I've been playing
              > since February this year and I've been an official member since earlier
              > this month.
              >
              > Locally, we have a Lady who has been a member for many years, and she had
              > some difficulty registering her name at first, but it happened after a few
              > years. Sometimes heralds disagree.
              >
              >
              > "There is at least one document where the same person's name is spelled
              > three different ways, on the same document."
              >
              > HA ^ :) this makes me happy.
              >
              >
              > Sincerely,
              >
              > Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla
              >
              > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Stefan li Rous <
              > stefanlirous@...
              > > wrote:
              >
              > > **
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla commented:
              > >
              > > <<< P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and checking
              > > with
              > > the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you
              > > wish to have your persona's name registered. It's not technically
              > necessary
              > > to do all that to start using it. A lot of people never register their
              > > personas' names. >>>
              > >
              > > Yes, you can use a name that you haven't registered or isn't
              > registerable.
              > >
              > > However, I would think carefully before you do such a thing.
              > >
              > > In fact, I would hold off using a name until you have a good idea it
              > *can*
              > > be registered.
              > >
              > > Even more I would make sure that SOMEONE ELSE hasn't registered a name
              > > before you start to use it. With the registered names online this is a
              > > fairly easy thing to do these days. When I registered my name, checking
              > it
              > > involved getting and checking through a half-dozen floppy disks to make
              > > sure that it wasn't already registered. :-)
              > >
              > > But don't wait too long. Folks in the Society have a way of making up
              > > their own name for you, if you wait too long. Ask John the Plain (who
              > > answered, "I'm just plain John") or Eve the Just (who had said "I'm just
              > > Eve"). She is now after a number of years trying change that to Astridr.
              > >
              > > One thing to keep in mind is that at first, you really only need a first
              > > name. You can get along with just that for a while. My AoA scroll says
              > > "Stephan of Bryn Gwlad", because at that time, a year into playing in the
              > > Society, I hadn't picked a last name yet. And as you can see, the
              > spelling
              > > changed also, but spelling was often rather irregular in period. There is
              > > at least one document where the same person's name is spelled three
              > > different ways, on the same document.
              > >
              > > Some people will wish to use a nickname that they've already been using
              > > outside of the SCA. Even if you can't find that name used in your time
              > > period in your region, sometimes you can come up with formal name which
              > is
              > > close, but still use the nickname for informal use. Sometimes folks have
              > > found their nickname used as a last name, but not as a first name, and
              > will
              > > register the name that way. Lalla, is that what you did?
              > >
              > > This can mean that, even if it passes the heralds as being period, you
              > > have an odd name, in that while it was used in period, it would be rather
              > > odd to hear it in your chosen period. The same goes with mixing first and
              > > last names. Today it would be strange to be Kennedy John or Bush George.
              > >
              > > Also remember that if you choose a difficult to read and pronounce name,
              > > even if the heralds are good and try their best, you may hear many
              > > different pronunciations in Court. :-)
              > >
              > > While you can always change your persona name later, the longer and wider
              > > you are known by that name the harder it will be to change it later.
              > >
              > > Since you rarely write your name on a lot of objects in ways that can't
              > be
              > > changed later, using a name and then having to register a different
              > > spelling or different name seldom causes real pain.
              > >
              > > However, I would definitely hold off painting or carving your heraldic
              > > device on items until after you have that officially registered!
              > >
              > >
              > > Stefan
              > >
              > > --------
              > > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
              > > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
              > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
              > > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >



              --
              Yours In Service,

              THLord Ian the Green

              "Resistit simplicitati veritas"

              My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Toscano
              Is that still true with electronic submissions? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 8, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Is that still true with electronic submissions?


                On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...> wrote:

                > Just a note, registering names and devices at Pennsic while very convenient
                > and you get excellent advice, does have a much longer processing time than
                > if you do it through your own Kingdom's heraldic channels.
                >
                > Yours in Service,
                >
                > Ian the Green
                >
                > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Sevika Balachandra <
                > sevikabalachandra@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > Stefan, only one person aside from me uses "Lalleshwari." My persona is
                > > named after a 15th century Kashmiri poetess. The Muslims called her
                > > "Lalla." I was not originally aware that this was a Muslim name and not
                > > simply a nickname, so when people began to give up (immediately) on
                > > pronouncing "Lalleshwari," I told them "Lalla" was fine. One of my
                > friends
                > > picked it up, started pronouncing it "Lahl-lah" (it's supposed to be
                > > pronounced more like "Lull" as in "lullaby,") it made the rounds, and now
                > > it's what most people call me. I don't have the power to change it at
                > this
                > > point and even if I did, they're my friends, and I don't want to argue
                > > every time they call my name. Also, as a woman told me at my last event,
                > > "sometimes the nickname chooses you."
                > >
                > > However, I have not registered my persona's name in any form yet. I plan
                > to
                > > bring documentation and look into doing so at Pennsic. I've been playing
                > > since February this year and I've been an official member since earlier
                > > this month.
                > >
                > > Locally, we have a Lady who has been a member for many years, and she had
                > > some difficulty registering her name at first, but it happened after a
                > few
                > > years. Sometimes heralds disagree.
                > >
                > >
                > > "There is at least one document where the same person's name is spelled
                > > three different ways, on the same document."
                > >
                > > HA ^ :) this makes me happy.
                > >
                > >
                > > Sincerely,
                > >
                > > Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla
                > >
                > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Stefan li Rous <
                > > stefanlirous@...
                > > > wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Lalleshwari Sah, called Lalla commented:
                > > >
                > > > <<< P.P.S. What I meant, by doing research and documentation and
                > checking
                > > > with
                > > > the college of heralds, is that you should do that at some point if you
                > > > wish to have your persona's name registered. It's not technically
                > > necessary
                > > > to do all that to start using it. A lot of people never register their
                > > > personas' names. >>>
                > > >
                > > > Yes, you can use a name that you haven't registered or isn't
                > > registerable.
                > > >
                > > > However, I would think carefully before you do such a thing.
                > > >
                > > > In fact, I would hold off using a name until you have a good idea it
                > > *can*
                > > > be registered.
                > > >
                > > > Even more I would make sure that SOMEONE ELSE hasn't registered a name
                > > > before you start to use it. With the registered names online this is a
                > > > fairly easy thing to do these days. When I registered my name, checking
                > > it
                > > > involved getting and checking through a half-dozen floppy disks to make
                > > > sure that it wasn't already registered. :-)
                > > >
                > > > But don't wait too long. Folks in the Society have a way of making up
                > > > their own name for you, if you wait too long. Ask John the Plain (who
                > > > answered, "I'm just plain John") or Eve the Just (who had said "I'm
                > just
                > > > Eve"). She is now after a number of years trying change that to
                > Astridr.
                > > >
                > > > One thing to keep in mind is that at first, you really only need a
                > first
                > > > name. You can get along with just that for a while. My AoA scroll says
                > > > "Stephan of Bryn Gwlad", because at that time, a year into playing in
                > the
                > > > Society, I hadn't picked a last name yet. And as you can see, the
                > > spelling
                > > > changed also, but spelling was often rather irregular in period. There
                > is
                > > > at least one document where the same person's name is spelled three
                > > > different ways, on the same document.
                > > >
                > > > Some people will wish to use a nickname that they've already been using
                > > > outside of the SCA. Even if you can't find that name used in your time
                > > > period in your region, sometimes you can come up with formal name which
                > > is
                > > > close, but still use the nickname for informal use. Sometimes folks
                > have
                > > > found their nickname used as a last name, but not as a first name, and
                > > will
                > > > register the name that way. Lalla, is that what you did?
                > > >
                > > > This can mean that, even if it passes the heralds as being period, you
                > > > have an odd name, in that while it was used in period, it would be
                > rather
                > > > odd to hear it in your chosen period. The same goes with mixing first
                > and
                > > > last names. Today it would be strange to be Kennedy John or Bush
                > George.
                > > >
                > > > Also remember that if you choose a difficult to read and pronounce
                > name,
                > > > even if the heralds are good and try their best, you may hear many
                > > > different pronunciations in Court. :-)
                > > >
                > > > While you can always change your persona name later, the longer and
                > wider
                > > > you are known by that name the harder it will be to change it later.
                > > >
                > > > Since you rarely write your name on a lot of objects in ways that can't
                > > be
                > > > changed later, using a name and then having to register a different
                > > > spelling or different name seldom causes real pain.
                > > >
                > > > However, I would definitely hold off painting or carving your heraldic
                > > > device on items until after you have that officially registered!
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Stefan
                > > >
                > > > --------
                > > > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                > > > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
                > > > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org****
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Yours In Service,
                >
                > THLord Ian the Green
                >
                > "Resistit simplicitati veritas"
                >
                > My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


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