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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!

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  • Justinos Tekton
    ... We presume everyone to be of noble birth but not of noble personal title when they come into the SCA. That is, you are of a family line that the Lord
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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      On 01/30/2013 09:14 PM, shelbystein wrote:
      > I think it was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?


      We presume everyone to be "of noble birth" but not "of noble personal title"
      when they come into the SCA. That is, you are of a family line that the Lord
      High Muck-A-Muck would consider worthy of social interaction, but you have
      not yet inherited/been_awarded a *personal* status of rank.

      That is the presumption, with the effect that no one is ever forced to
      portray
      a serf. The life of a serf in the Middle Ages was a lot of hard work and
      poverty, so we don't expect anyone to want to do that as a hobby. We study
      the Middle Ages as they were, but re-create the Middle Ages as they
      should have
      been.

      All that being said, if anyone *wishes* to portray a serf, either as an
      alternate persona or as their main persona, it's not against the rules.

      There are also, even among those not portraying the lower class per se,
      cultural differences in how "minor nobility" is perceived and portrayed.
      For example, one new SCA member might wish to portray someone who is a
      very erudite and mannerly court hanger-on at Florence, whereas another new
      member might wish to portray a Norseman who thinks the whole notion of
      courtly
      behavior is ridiculous and pretentious. One might say, "But of course all
      civilized folk understand the nuances of civility!", whereas the other might
      say, "Pshaw. A man of honor speaks the truth, plainly as he sees it, to the
      other man's face, and none of this whispering behind his back!" Both of
      these
      gentles have the same SCA rank, but their personas' cultures would interpret
      that rank differently.

      With respect to doing chores at events and such, in our locale (Midrealm) it
      seems to be viewed one of two ways. Some people just temporarily suspend the
      illusion with respect to their persona..."There are dishes that need to be
      washed, and I'm going to help. For now, I'm just a guy washing dishes, not
      the Baron of Floobydust." On the other hand, as the *SCA* practices the art
      of nobility, helping out with scut work is not considered "beneath" those of
      high rank, but rather is esteemed as an act of "courtly generosity". It
      may or
      may not be period to have that attitude, but these are the Current Middle
      Ages, not the historical Middle Ages. :)

      Short answer: You are permitted to be a serf if you want, but no one can
      ever force you into that role.

      Justin

      --
      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
      Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
      fesswise reversed sable.

      justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
    • Ian Green
      I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well. It is rare in the SCA to see
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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        I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of
        which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.

        It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate as
        any other persona to have and to play. That said, the default is that yes,
        you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that make
        you a "higher" class of nobility. Most of the people I know who play the
        serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA. They still
        enjoy having serf personas.

        Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
        inconsistencies. You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the realm in
        historical reality. Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
        elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
        possible stations. Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you want
        to be more or less.

        You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title. You
        can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
        Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The Honorable
        Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless you
        EARN those titles. Just about everything else is fair game.

        As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think. In
        fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had shorter
        work hours during the week than a full time employee does today. Yes,

        Yours in Service,

        Ian

        On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein <shelbystein@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
        > ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
        > was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Yours In Service,

        THLord Ian the Green

        "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

        My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ian Green
        An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be: Making a living in the Middle Ages: The People of Britain 850-1520 by Christopher Dyer,
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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          An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:

          Making a living in the Middle Ages: The People of Britain 850-1520 by
          Christopher Dyer, PhD.
          http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer

          Book:

          http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales

          Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
          Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland. It covers the nobility, the
          non-nobles and the Church very well.

          Yours in Service,

          Ian the Green

          On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...> wrote:

          > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of
          > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
          >
          > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate as
          > any other persona to have and to play. That said, the default is that yes,
          > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that make
          > you a "higher" class of nobility. Most of the people I know who play the
          > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA. They still
          > enjoy having serf personas.
          >
          > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
          > inconsistencies. You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the realm in
          > historical reality. Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
          > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
          > possible stations. Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you want
          > to be more or less.
          >
          > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title. You
          > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
          > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The Honorable
          > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless you
          > EARN those titles. Just about everything else is fair game.
          >
          > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think. In
          > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had shorter
          > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today. Yes,
          >
          > Yours in Service,
          >
          > Ian
          >
          > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein <shelbystein@...>wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
          >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
          >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Yours In Service,
          >
          > THLord Ian the Green
          >
          > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
          >
          > My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>




          --
          Yours In Service,

          THLord Ian the Green

          "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

          My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • D'vorah bint Da'ud
          ... I will say this: those who portray serfs, servants, and others with little to no status can get away with owning less garb (and less expensive garb) than
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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            >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein <shelbystein@...>wrote:
            >>
            >>> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
            >>> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
            >>> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?

            I will say this: those who portray serfs, servants, and others with little to no status can get away with owning less garb (and less expensive garb) than those whose status would mean wearing the simpler/less expensive things would be instantly a point of embarrassment. I do know those who have decided to portray those of the peasant class, until they got their clothing and encampments a bit upgraded.
            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            D'vorah bint Da'ud
            Protégé to Meister Albrecht Waldfurster, OP
            Gyldenholt, Caid (Orange, CA)
            dvorah@...
            http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
            Twitter: @DvorahSCA
            Facebook: D'vorah bint Da'ud

            If you have a parrot, and don't teach it to say "Help, they've trapped me in the body of a parrot!" you are wasting everyone's time.
            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          • Shelby Stein
             That sounds like a great book.  Do you know of any books that include Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically?  I don t mean the politics but the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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               That sounds like a great book.  Do you know of any books that include Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically?  I don't mean the politics but the day-to-day living.


              ________________________________
              From: Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...>
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:35 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!

              An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:

              Making a living in the Middle Ages:  The People of Britain 850-1520 by
              Christopher Dyer, PhD.
              http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer

              Book:

              http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales

              Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
              Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland.  It covers the nobility, the
              non-nobles and the Church very well.

              Yours in Service,

              Ian the Green

              On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...> wrote:

              > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of
              > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
              >
              > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate as
              > any other persona to have and to play.  That said, the default is that yes,
              > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that make
              > you a "higher" class of nobility.  Most of the people I know who play the
              > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA.  They still
              > enjoy having serf personas.
              >
              > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
              > inconsistencies.  You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the realm in
              > historical reality.  Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
              > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
              > possible stations.  Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you want
              > to be more or less.
              >
              > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title.  You
              > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
              > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The Honorable
              > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless you
              > EARN those titles.  Just about everything else is fair game.
              >
              > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think.  In
              > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had shorter
              > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today.  Yes,
              >
              > Yours in Service,
              >
              > Ian
              >
              > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein <shelbystein@...>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
              >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
              >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?
              >>
              >> 
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Yours In Service,
              >
              > THLord Ian the Green
              >
              > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
              >
              > My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>




              --
              Yours In Service,

              THLord Ian the Green

              "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

              My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ian Green
              Actually the book mentioned does cover Ireland as well. Though not as completely. I m still working my way through it as real life (you will hear that term a
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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                Actually the book mentioned does cover Ireland as well. Though not as
                completely. I'm still working my way through it as real life (you will
                hear that term a lot) keeps popping up taking time away from my hobby.

                I might suggest books by Dr Sean Duffy of the Trinity College in Ireland
                for books on Ireland Specifically. For example the book "Ireland in the
                Middle Ages."

                http://www.amazon.com/Ireland-British-History-Perspective-Paperback/dp/0312163908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359690453&sr=1-1&keywords=ireland+in+the+middle+ages

                Ian

                On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Shelby Stein <shelbystein@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > That sounds like a great book. Do you know of any books that include
                > Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically? I don't mean the politics but
                > the day-to-day living.
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:35 PM
                > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                >
                >
                > An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:
                >
                > Making a living in the Middle Ages: The People of Britain 850-1520 by
                > Christopher Dyer, PhD.
                > http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer
                >
                > Book:
                >
                >
                > http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales
                >
                > Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
                > Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland. It covers the nobility, the
                > non-nobles and the Church very well.
                >
                > Yours in Service,
                >
                > Ian the Green
                >
                > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of
                > > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
                > >
                > > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate as
                > > any other persona to have and to play. That said, the default is that
                > yes,
                > > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that make
                > > you a "higher" class of nobility. Most of the people I know who play the
                > > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA. They still
                > > enjoy having serf personas.
                > >
                > > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
                > > inconsistencies. You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the realm
                > in
                > > historical reality. Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
                > > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
                > > possible stations. Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you
                > want
                > > to be more or less.
                > >
                > > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title.
                > You
                > > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
                > > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The Honorable
                > > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless you
                > > EARN those titles. Just about everything else is fair game.
                > >
                > > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think. In
                > > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had
                > shorter
                > > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today. Yes,
                > >
                > > Yours in Service,
                > >
                > > Ian
                > >
                > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein shelbystein@...
                > >wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
                > >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
                > >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Yours In Service,
                > >
                > > THLord Ian the Green
                > >
                > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                > >
                > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                >
                >
                > --
                > Yours In Service,
                >
                > THLord Ian the Green
                >
                > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                >
                > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Yours In Service,

                THLord Ian the Green

                "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

                My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Shelby Stein
                Thanks!  I will look for into that.  Does anybody happen to know about banks in the middle ages?  I read that they existed in some form or another.  Did
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 31, 2013
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                  Thanks!  I will look for into that.  Does anybody happen to know about banks in the middle ages?  I read that they existed in some form or another.  Did people just keep all their gold coin lying around?  How did they protect it?  I read some people used money changers to finance wars, thereby preserving their immediate wealth.

                   


                  ________________________________
                  From: Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...>
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:49 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!

                  Actually the book mentioned does cover Ireland as well. Though not as
                  completely.  I'm still working my way through it as real life (you will
                  hear that term a lot) keeps popping up taking time away from my hobby.

                  I might suggest books by Dr Sean Duffy of the Trinity College in Ireland
                  for books on Ireland Specifically.  For example the book "Ireland in the
                  Middle Ages."

                  http://www.amazon.com/Ireland-British-History-Perspective-Paperback/dp/0312163908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359690453&sr=1-1&keywords=ireland+in+the+middle+ages

                  Ian

                  On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Shelby Stein <shelbystein@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  That sounds like a great book.  Do you know of any books that include
                  > Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically?  I don't mean the politics but
                  > the day-to-day living.
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                  > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:35 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                  >
                  >
                  > An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:
                  >
                  > Making a living in the Middle Ages:  The People of Britain 850-1520 by
                  > Christopher Dyer, PhD.
                  > http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer
                  >
                  > Book:
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales
                  >
                  > Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
                  > Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland.  It covers the nobility, the
                  > non-nobles and the Church very well.
                  >
                  > Yours in Service,
                  >
                  > Ian the Green
                  >
                  > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple of
                  > > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
                  > >
                  > > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate as
                  > > any other persona to have and to play.  That said, the default is that
                  > yes,
                  > > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that make
                  > > you a "higher" class of nobility.  Most of the people I know who play the
                  > > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA.  They still
                  > > enjoy having serf personas.
                  > >
                  > > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
                  > > inconsistencies.  You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the realm
                  > in
                  > > historical reality.  Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
                  > > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
                  > > possible stations.  Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you
                  > want
                  > > to be more or less.
                  > >
                  > > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title.
                  > You
                  > > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
                  > > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The Honorable
                  > > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless you
                  > > EARN those titles.  Just about everything else is fair game.
                  > >
                  > > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think.  In
                  > > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had
                  > shorter
                  > > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today.  Yes,
                  > >
                  > > Yours in Service,
                  > >
                  > > Ian
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein shelbystein@...
                  > >wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> **
                  >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the middle
                  > >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think it
                  > >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no serfs?
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Yours In Service,
                  > >
                  > > THLord Ian the Green
                  > >
                  > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                  > >
                  > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Yours In Service,
                  >
                  > THLord Ian the Green
                  >
                  > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                  >
                  > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  >



                  --
                  Yours In Service,

                  THLord Ian the Green

                  "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

                  My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ian Green
                  For many book subjects I use Amazon.com kind of like a book google search. I make sure to click on books then I type in the search query. In this case I typed
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 1, 2013
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                    For many book subjects I use Amazon.com kind of like a book google search.

                    I make sure to click on books then I type in the search query.

                    In this case I typed in "Banks in the Middle Ages," and came up with a
                    suitable list of books.

                    "Money and the Middle Ages,"

                    http://www.amazon.com/Money-Middle-Ages-Jacques-Goff/dp/0745652999/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359727283&sr=1-1&keywords=banks+in+the+middle+ages

                    "Banking Trade and Industry: Europe, America and Asia from the 13th to the
                    20th Century"

                    http://www.amazon.com/Banking-Trade-Industry-Thirteenth-Twentieth/dp/0521188873/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359727283&sr=1-2&keywords=banks+in+the+middle+ages

                    Then to make sure it is written by someone of authority I go to Google and
                    search the Author's Name and then add the word Author after it.

                    If that search results are too broad and I can't find the person, I will
                    type in the book name as well and hope to get some good biographical
                    information. I used to just click on the authors name on Amazon but in my
                    experience it doesn't tell me often enough if the person is a Ph.D. in the
                    subject or just some hack or anything in between.

                    If it is something I want, I then contact my local bookstore and/or library
                    and see if they carry it. If they don't I check various booksellers online
                    for the best prices.

                    Best of luck finding information on your interests! The more we learn the
                    better people we become is my motto. Of course I'm the child of two
                    teachers.

                    Yours in Service,

                    Ian the Green

                    On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Shelby Stein <shelbystein@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks! I will look for into that. Does anybody happen to know about
                    > banks in the middle ages? I read that they existed in some form or
                    > another. Did people just keep all their gold coin lying around? How did
                    > they protect it? I read some people used money changers to finance wars,
                    > thereby preserving their immediate wealth.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                    > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:49 PM
                    >
                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                    >
                    > Actually the book mentioned does cover Ireland as well. Though not as
                    > completely. I'm still working my way through it as real life (you will
                    > hear that term a lot) keeps popping up taking time away from my hobby.
                    >
                    > I might suggest books by Dr Sean Duffy of the Trinity College in Ireland
                    > for books on Ireland Specifically. For example the book "Ireland in the
                    > Middle Ages."
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.amazon.com/Ireland-British-History-Perspective-Paperback/dp/0312163908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359690453&sr=1-1&keywords=ireland+in+the+middle+ages
                    >
                    > Ian
                    >
                    > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Shelby Stein shelbystein@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > That sounds like a great book. Do you know of any books that include
                    > > Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically? I don't mean the politics
                    > but
                    > > the day-to-day living.
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                    > > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:35 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:
                    > >
                    > > Making a living in the Middle Ages: The People of Britain 850-1520 by
                    > > Christopher Dyer, PhD.
                    > > http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer
                    > >
                    > > Book:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales
                    > >
                    > > Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
                    > > Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland. It covers the nobility, the
                    > > non-nobles and the Church very well.
                    > >
                    > > Yours in Service,
                    > >
                    > > Ian the Green
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple
                    > of
                    > > > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
                    > > >
                    > > > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate
                    > as
                    > > > any other persona to have and to play. That said, the default is that
                    > > yes,
                    > > > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that
                    > make
                    > > > you a "higher" class of nobility. Most of the people I know who play
                    > the
                    > > > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA. They still
                    > > > enjoy having serf personas.
                    > > >
                    > > > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
                    > > > inconsistencies. You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the
                    > realm
                    > > in
                    > > > historical reality. Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
                    > > > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
                    > > > possible stations. Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you
                    > > want
                    > > > to be more or less.
                    > > >
                    > > > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title.
                    > > You
                    > > > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
                    > > > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The
                    > Honorable
                    > > > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless
                    > you
                    > > > EARN those titles. Just about everything else is fair game.
                    > > >
                    > > > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think.
                    > In
                    > > > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had
                    > > shorter
                    > > > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today. Yes,
                    > > >
                    > > > Yours in Service,
                    > > >
                    > > > Ian
                    > > >
                    > > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein shelbystein@...
                    > > >wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >> **
                    > >
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the
                    > middle
                    > > >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think
                    > it
                    > > >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no
                    > serfs?
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > Yours In Service,
                    > > >
                    > > > THLord Ian the Green
                    > > >
                    > > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                    > > >
                    > > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Yours In Service,
                    > >
                    > > THLord Ian the Green
                    > >
                    > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                    > >
                    > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Yours In Service,
                    >
                    > THLord Ian the Green
                    >
                    > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                    >
                    > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    Yours In Service,

                    THLord Ian the Green

                    "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

                    My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Shelby Stein
                    Thanks for the info!  I will definitely look into it.  I notice some conflicting information on the internet.  Probably best to stick to books!
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 1, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks for the info!  I will definitely look into it.  I notice some conflicting information on the internet.  Probably best to stick to books!


                      ________________________________
                      From: Ian Green <ianthegreen01@...>
                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 9:08 AM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!

                      For many book subjects I use Amazon.com kind of like a book google search.

                      I make sure to click on books then I type in the search query.

                      In this case I typed in "Banks in the Middle Ages," and came up with a
                      suitable list of books.

                      "Money and the Middle Ages,"

                      http://www.amazon.com/Money-Middle-Ages-Jacques-Goff/dp/0745652999/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359727283&sr=1-1&keywords=banks+in+the+middle+ages

                      "Banking Trade and Industry: Europe, America and Asia from the 13th to the
                      20th Century"

                      http://www.amazon.com/Banking-Trade-Industry-Thirteenth-Twentieth/dp/0521188873/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359727283&sr=1-2&keywords=banks+in+the+middle+ages

                      Then to make sure it is written by someone of authority I go to Google and
                      search the Author's Name and then add the word Author after it.

                      If that search results are too broad and I can't find the person, I will
                      type in the book name as well and hope to get some good biographical
                      information.  I used to just click on the authors name on Amazon but in my
                      experience it doesn't tell me often enough if the person is a Ph.D. in the
                      subject or just some hack or anything in between.

                      If it is something I want, I then contact my local bookstore and/or library
                      and see if they carry it.  If they don't I check various booksellers online
                      for the best prices.

                      Best of luck finding information on your interests!  The more we learn the
                      better people we become is my motto.  Of course I'm the child of two
                      teachers.

                      Yours in Service,

                      Ian the Green

                      On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Shelby Stein <shelbystein@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks!  I will look for into that.  Does anybody happen to know about
                      > banks in the middle ages?  I read that they existed in some form or
                      > another.  Did people just keep all their gold coin lying around?  How did
                      > they protect it?  I read some people used money changers to finance wars,
                      > thereby preserving their immediate wealth.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                      > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:49 PM
                      >
                      > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                      >
                      > Actually the book mentioned does cover Ireland as well. Though not as
                      > completely.  I'm still working my way through it as real life (you will
                      > hear that term a lot) keeps popping up taking time away from my hobby.
                      >
                      > I might suggest books by Dr Sean Duffy of the Trinity College in Ireland
                      > for books on Ireland Specifically.  For example the book "Ireland in the
                      > Middle Ages."
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Ireland-British-History-Perspective-Paperback/dp/0312163908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359690453&sr=1-1&keywords=ireland+in+the+middle+ages
                      >
                      > Ian
                      >
                      > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Shelby Stein shelbystein@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >  That sounds like a great book.  Do you know of any books that include
                      > > Ireland, or that cover Ireland specifically?  I don't mean the politics
                      > but
                      > > the day-to-day living.
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                      > > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:35 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Thanks!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > An excellent book about how people lived in the Middle Ages would be:
                      > >
                      > > Making a living in the Middle Ages:  The People of Britain 850-1520 by
                      > > Christopher Dyer, PhD.
                      > > http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/historical/people/cdyer
                      > >
                      > > Book:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Making-Living-Middle-Ages-850-1520/dp/0300101910/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359653205&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=living+in+the+middle+ages+800+to+1600+book+england+scotland+wales
                      > >
                      > > Highly suggest the book for anyone interested in how people lived in the
                      > > Middle ages for England, Wales and Scotland.  It covers the nobility, the
                      > > non-nobles and the Church very well.
                      > >
                      > > Yours in Service,
                      > >
                      > > Ian the Green
                      > >
                      > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Ian Green ianthegreen01@...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > I know several people who have non-nobility personas. I know a couple
                      > of
                      > > > which who have personas and lowly lay friars as well.
                      > > >
                      > > > It is rare in the SCA to see these personas but they are as legitimate
                      > as
                      > > > any other persona to have and to play.  That said, the default is that
                      > > yes,
                      > > > you are minor nobility until or unless you have received awards that
                      > make
                      > > > you a "higher" class of nobility.  Most of the people I know who play
                      > the
                      > > > serfs and lay friars are of the highest orders in the SCA.  They still
                      > > > enjoy having serf personas.
                      > > >
                      > > > Much like other things in the SCA, we politely ignore the obvious
                      > > > inconsistencies.  You can't be a peasant/serf and be a peer of the
                      > realm
                      > > in
                      > > > historical reality.  Becoming a peer of the realm would automatically
                      > > > elevate someone from whatever station they were into one of the highest
                      > > > possible stations.  Oh well, its the SCA, where we let you be what you
                      > > want
                      > > > to be more or less.
                      > > >
                      > > > You don't get to call yourself a Knight, but you can earn that title.
                      > > You
                      > > > can't be Prince, Princess, King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess,
                      > > > Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, The Honorable Lord, The
                      > Honorable
                      > > > Lady, Lord, Lady, Master and/or Mistress (feminine of Master,) unless
                      > you
                      > > > EARN those titles.  Just about everything else is fair game.
                      > > >
                      > > > As for how much free time Peasants had, more than most people think.
                      > In
                      > > > fact for most of the time period of the SCA peasants and serfs had
                      > > shorter
                      > > > work hours during the week than a full time employee does today.  Yes,
                      > > >
                      > > > Yours in Service,
                      > > >
                      > > > Ian
                      > > >
                      > > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:14 PM, shelbystein shelbystein@...
                      > > >wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >> **
                      > >
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Thanks! I appreciate all of the great information. I realize the
                      > middle
                      > > >> ages, while being really cool, weren't so great for everyone! I think
                      > it
                      > > >> was mentioned that everyone is part of the nobility. Are there no
                      > serfs?
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > Yours In Service,
                      > > >
                      > > > THLord Ian the Green
                      > > >
                      > > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                      > > >
                      > > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Yours In Service,
                      > >
                      > > THLord Ian the Green
                      > >
                      > > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                      > >
                      > > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Yours In Service,
                      >
                      > THLord Ian the Green
                      >
                      > "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"
                      >
                      > My Blog http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

                      >



                      --
                      Yours In Service,

                      THLord Ian the Green

                      "Veritatem resistit simplicitate"

                      My Blog <http://scribescribbling.wordpress.com/>


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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