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Another question then - re: Title Usage

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  • Laurie Taylor
    Greetings once more, And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to mind a question that I ve had floating for quite some time. Since
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 4 3:50 PM
      Greetings once more,

      And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
      mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.

      Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin with the
      modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
      book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
      proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
      recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's self
      by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not introduce
      my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.

      Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!

      But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all, does one
      use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
      book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?

      Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
      Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
      so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
      all the time!

      YIS

      Gelleia



      -----Original Message-----
      From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Ian Green
      Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors

      They are favors or tokens or badges.

      For my understanding of favors and tokens:

      https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
      tokens


      Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
      something else.

      Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.

      The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
      the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
      on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
      Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.

      Ian the Green

      On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:20 PM, <theanswerlady1@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Might also denote a role or office held by the wearer
      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: chemistbb3 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sender: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 20:12:31
      > To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
      > Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
      >
      > Soounds like you are talking about a favor. They can have a number of
      > purposes. Normally they are a sign that the person has gained the "favor"
      > of the person who gave it to them. The design can be the arms or the badge
      > of the giver, or just something that has some significance between the
      two.
      > It can also signify the membership in a group or Household. Ansteorra has
      > one that is given out by the Amazons to Ansteorran fighters who
      participate
      > in their first Gulf Wars and then they add a star for each year they
      return
      > to fight at Gulf War.
      >
      > Also, if you could please put something in your subject line in the
      > future, that would be great. The reason I am ask for that is spammers
      > sometimes do not put in a subject. My first thought when I do not see
      > anything in the subjet line is to delete it as spam.
      >
      > William
      >
      > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Taylor" <lorann.taylor@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Greetings,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Though no longer a newcomer exactly, and in spite of being a Chatelaine,
      > I
      > > still have plenty of questions. Today I'm ready to learn and take my SCA
      > > knowledge up a notch or two.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Quite often, garb seems to be accompanied by a fabric piece that hangs
      > off
      > > of the belt of an outfit, usually in back. There is pretty much always a
      > > design embroidered on the fabric piece. The piece usually measures
      > roughly
      > > (eye-balled) 4" wide and maybe 8-10" long.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > What is the significance of these fabric 'belt banners', for lack of a
      > > better term. Are they only worn when one has achieved some particular
      > > accomplishment? Are they ever worn strictly because the wearer wanted to
      > > wear one? Are they subject to any of the SCA's very own sumptuary laws?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Please, feel free to enlighten me! This has been bugging me for a while.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > YIS
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Gelleia
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Yours In Service,

      Lord Ian the Green

      http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

      Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Nikki
      THIS! And people don t understand why I get irritated as all get out when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say in return is Oh,
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 4 4:09 PM
        THIS! And people don't understand why I get irritated as all get out
        when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say
        in return is "Oh, is Dr. listed as your first name on your birth
        certificate?"

        Éva

        On 4/4/2012 6:50 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
        >
        > Greetings once more,
        >
        > And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
        > mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.
        >
        > Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin
        > with the
        > modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
        > book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
        > proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
        > recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's
        > self
        > by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not
        > introduce
        > my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.
        >
        > Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!
        >
        > But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all,
        > does one
        > use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
        > book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?
        >
        > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
        > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
        > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
        > all the time!
        >
        > YIS
        >
        > Gelleia
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>] On
        > Behalf Of Ian Green
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
        >
        > They are favors or tokens or badges.
        >
        > For my understanding of favors and tokens:
        >
        > https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
        > tokens
        >
        > Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
        > something else.
        >
        > Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.
        >
        > The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
        > the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
        > on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
        > Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.
        >
        > Ian the Green__
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Toscano
        I tend to introduce people to each other, and I do it with titles, because some people like to know. Personally, it depends on where we are. If we re sitting
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 4 4:15 PM
          I tend to introduce people to each other, and I do it with titles, because
          some people like to know.

          Personally, it depends on where we are.

          If we're sitting in Calontir camp at Pennsic, driking Rhodri's beer, then I
          am gonna say, "Hi, I am Liam. Want a beer?"

          If you're lining up for Opening Ceremonies, I am helping to herald the
          line, then it's, Greeting, Master Liam St. Liam. How can I help?" (and do
          you want one of Rhodri's beers?)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Justinos Tekton called Justin
          ... This is a subjective situation, and for most people the answer depends on the formality of the situation. I am a companion of the Pelican, so my official
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 4 4:28 PM
            On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 15:50 -0700, Laurie Taylor wrote:
            > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia
            > de
            > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to
            > do
            > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to
            > need
            > all the time!


            This is a subjective situation, and for most people the answer depends
            on the formality of the situation.

            I am a companion of the Pelican, so my official name and title are
            "Master Justinos Tekton called Justin", although I use the
            culture-specific title "Maistor" (as permitted by the SCA's heraldic
            rules -- you can pick a title that is equivalent status to the official
            one but specific to your persona's culture and period).

            That title is what I use in Court, because that is a formal situation,
            and I use it in my tagline on email. I use my title at public demos when
            we all stand up and self-introduce to the crowd, because our
            period-sounding titles add to the tone of the presentation. But I don't
            introduce myself by title in casual conversations at events. "Good day,
            M'Lady! I am Justin, at your service!" works just fine.

            In communicating by email, I (as many do) sign the message with the
            name/title by which I prefer to be addressed in that situation -- as
            you'll see below, usually that is simply "Justin." My title is in the
            footer for information, because some of my missives are official for an
            office I hold, and because it saves the other person the trouble of
            asking, if they should happen to want to know. (My heraldic blazon is
            also there, just for the fun of it!)

            My view of titles -- mine or anyone else's -- is that they exist to help
            make our conversations feel more period, especially in public speaking
            situations such as Court. I don't want my friends -- new or old -- to
            have to stumble over anything longer than "Justin" for normal
            conversation. In Court, however, if you are speaking publicly, you
            should probably use your full title at the beginning of your speech not
            out of pride, but out of duty -- when you are speaking, you are also a
            performer, helping to bring the pageantry of Court alive for others!

            It is, as I began, a subjective issue, though. If you have an Award of
            Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
            period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet you."
            If you wish to simply introduce yourself as "Gelleia", no one will
            respect you the less for that. Your words and deeds, not your title,
            bring respect.

            Finally, I'll add that a gender-specific title can be useful to the
            other person in email simply because some persona names are not
            obviously male or female. The other party may wish to address you by the
            courtesy title of "My Lady" or "My Lord", and if you have a
            gender-ambiguous name, it can be difficult for them to know which
            courtesy title, or which pronouns, to use when referring to or
            addressing you. This is particularly important in multi-party emails or
            posts on a public list. In this list, for example, it's not uncommon to
            quote someone else's discussion point, and say "I agree with her/him
            abut this ...." or "S/he makes a good argument here, but I respectfully
            disagree because...."

            This probably raises more questions than it answers, but perhaps it will
            be at least somewhat helpful.

            Kind regards,

            Justin

            --
            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
            Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
            fesswise reversed sable.

            justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          • Justinos Tekton called Justin
            ... Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work day here! Justin -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 4 4:31 PM
              On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 19:28 -0400, Justinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
              > If you have an Award of
              > Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
              > period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet
              > you."

              Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work
              day here!

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
              fesswise reversed sable.

              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            • Ian Green
              The article you are speaking of is Correct Title Usage for Addressing and Introducing.
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 4 11:33 PM
                The article you are speaking of is "Correct Title Usage for Addressing and
                Introducing."

                https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/correcttitleusageandadress


                I am not the author of this article and reprinted it with permission from
                Countess Dulcia MacPherson, OL, OR.

                When writing to someone in a formal capacity in period there were many ways
                to go about it. The most common that I am familiar with is something along
                the lines of modern English's:

                "Greetings and Salutations unto you from Lord Ian the Green..." It can get
                more involved, "Greetings and Salutations unto Your Majesty Awesome Fighter
                from Lord Ian the Green, (enter awards alphabet soup here.)

                As for in person... you have received enough advice on that and need hear
                none further from me.

                Depending on what kingdom you are in there may be a protocol handbook to
                help out. Protocol is not the same in every Kingdom throughout the SCA.

                Ian

                On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Justinos Tekton called Justin <
                justin@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 19:28 -0400, Justinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                > > If you have an Award of
                > > Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
                > > period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet
                > > you."
                >
                > Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work
                > day here!
                >
                >
                > Justin
                >
                > --
                > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                > Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                > fesswise reversed sable.
                >
                > justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Yours In Service,

                Lord Ian the Green

                http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tom Hickey
                This aspect of this discussion may be off-topic, but since Nikki brought it up and I am a doctor, I feel obliged to reply. In the old days, a priest,
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 5 11:16 AM
                  This aspect of this discussion may be off-topic, but since Nikki brought it up and I am a doctor, I feel obliged to reply.
                  In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                  At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and rsponsibility.
                  In the case of royalty, princes and future queens were raised from infancy by specialists to learn how to exercise leadership. 
                  As an Irishman, I am not defending the divine rights of kings, but still... no one could go up to King James and say, "Wassup, Jimmy?!"
                  In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned, and also preserves that very delicate balance between intimacy and professional distance that allows patients to confide secrets hat they can't tell anyone else, knowing that a doctor is expected to use the knowledge of that secret discretely and in the patient's best interests, according to the doctor's best knowledge, skill and insights. Medicine is supposed to be a calling rather than a racket, and as long as the doctor honors that role, patients should too.
                  Tom Hickey MD


                  ________________________________
                  From: Nikki <sidhemaiden@...>
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:09 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                   

                  THIS! And people don't understand why I get irritated as all get out
                  when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say
                  in return is "Oh, is Dr. listed as your first name on your birth
                  certificate?"

                  Éva

                  On 4/4/2012 6:50 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
                  >
                  > Greetings once more,
                  >
                  > And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
                  > mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.
                  >
                  > Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin
                  > with the
                  > modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
                  > book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
                  > proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
                  > recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's
                  > self
                  > by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not
                  > introduce
                  > my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.
                  >
                  > Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!
                  >
                  > But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all,
                  > does one
                  > use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
                  > book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?
                  >
                  > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
                  > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
                  > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
                  > all the time!
                  >
                  > YIS
                  >
                  > Gelleia
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                  > Behalf Of Ian Green
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
                  > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
                  >
                  > They are favors or tokens or badges.
                  >
                  > For my understanding of favors and tokens:
                  >
                  > https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
                  > tokens
                  >
                  > Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
                  > something else.
                  >
                  > Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.
                  >
                  > The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
                  > the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
                  > on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
                  > Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.
                  >
                  > Ian the Green__
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • D'vorah bint Da'ud
                  ... More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn t always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 5 11:21 AM
                    On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:

                    > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                    > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and responsibility…[snip] In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned…

                    More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    D'vorah bint Da'ud
                    Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                    dvorah@...
                    http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                    Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                  • Bill Toscano
                    Actor: Is there a doctor in the house? Patron: I m a doctor! Actor: Hey Doc. Enjoying the show? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 5 11:47 AM
                      Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"

                      Patron: "I'm a doctor!"

                      Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tom Hickey
                      Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!) ________________________________ From: Bill Toscano To:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 5 12:21 PM
                        Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!)



                        ________________________________
                        From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:47 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                         

                        Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"

                        Patron: "I'm a doctor!"

                        Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tom Hickey
                        Good point! ________________________________ From: D vorah bint Da ud To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 5,
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 5 12:22 PM
                          Good point!



                          ________________________________
                          From: D'vorah bint Da'ud <dvorah@...>
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:21 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage


                          On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:

                          > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                          > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and responsibility…[snip] In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned…

                          More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                          D'vorah bint Da'ud
                          Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                          dvorah@...
                          http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                          Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



                          ------------------------------------

                          Yahoo! Groups Links



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill Toscano
                          Thought you were fine, Tom. Valid points. Liam ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 5 12:37 PM
                            Thought you were fine, Tom.

                            Valid points.

                            Liam


                            On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hickey <thickeymd@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!)
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                            > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:47 PM
                            >
                            > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"
                            >
                            > Patron: "I'm a doctor!"
                            >
                            > Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ian Green
                            My wife has her Ph.D. and she too has earned the right to be called Doctor. In fact on formal invitations and introductions my wife s name goes first because
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 5 12:45 PM
                              My wife has her Ph.D. and she too has earned the right to be called Doctor.

                              In fact on formal invitations and introductions my wife's name goes first
                              because she has the higher title as she has most certainly earned it. It
                              is not Mr and Mrs the Green. It is Mrs Jane Doe and Mr the Green. If
                              truly formal it is Dr Jane Doe and Mr Ian the Green.

                              I'm pretty sure that not everyone goes around calling the MD doc or doctor.
                              If in a medical setting they sure do and they darn well better, that title
                              has been earned. Just like my wife doesn't get introduced as Dr Jane Doe
                              in every situation.

                              Friends hanging out at a restaurant having fun and someone stops by that
                              doesn't know everyone, you don't introduce the MD or the Ph.D. as Doctor
                              anything. It's, "Hey, this is my friend John Doe." At a conference my
                              wife gets introduced as "Dr. Jane Doe." In the Hospital the MD gets
                              introduced or introduces themself as Dr. John Doe.

                              I certainly wouldn't introduce my wife in a first aid situation as Doctor
                              as that would give people the wrong impression. In fact she's not even 1st
                              aid or CPR qualified at the moment.

                              As it was said earlier. Usage of title depends entirely on the social
                              construct and situation. I had the honor of serving Her Majesty of the
                              Midrealm by being one of the retainers on site. When my shift ended I
                              happened to know the person who was replacing me. I introduced my
                              replacement to Her Majesty:

                              "You're Majesty, it is my pleasure to have the honor to introduce you to
                              Lady Jane Doe who recently moved to this Kingdom from Far Far Away where
                              she was a protocol herald and was the Kingdom Chatelaine there for a term."

                              This worked well. Her Majesty was well introduced, knew some quick
                              information about the lady and what title she had.

                              I had introduced this same lady to friends at the event earlier as, "This
                              is Jane Doe. She's recently came here from Far Far Away where she was
                              pretty active. I met her at scribal practice night and like most scadians
                              likes a lot of activities."

                              For me, when I introduce myself in person, I generally just say, "Hi, I'm
                              Ian. Ian the (pointing to my garb,) Green." And that covers it pretty
                              well. They at least remember the color and that cues them to the name.

                              Yours in Service,

                              Ian

                              On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Tom Hickey <thickeymd@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Good point!
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: D'vorah bint Da'ud <dvorah@...>
                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:21 PM
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage
                              >
                              >
                              > On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:
                              >
                              > > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some
                              > of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while
                              > others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                              > > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to
                              > serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with
                              > this privelege and responsibility�[snip] In my case, after high school it
                              > was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working
                              > 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the
                              > night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor"
                              > acknowledges what I've earned�
                              >
                              > More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean,
                              > but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical
                              > emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor
                              > means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that
                              > doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will
                              > have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                              >
                              > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                              > D'vorah bint Da'ud
                              > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                              > dvorah@...
                              > http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                              > Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                              >
                              > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Yours In Service,

                              Lord Ian the Green

                              http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                              Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bill Toscano
                              I usually use, Hi, I m Liam. I m harmless. Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;) Liam I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;) [Non-text
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 5 1:01 PM
                                I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."

                                Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)

                                Liam
                                I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Tom Hickey
                                Why do people need reassuring? Do you look like Harry Potter s friend Hagred with his crossbow? :) ________________________________ From: Bill Toscano
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 5 1:11 PM
                                  Why do people need reassuring?
                                  Do you look like Harry Potter's friend Hagred with his crossbow? :)


                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 3:01 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                                   

                                  I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."

                                  Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)

                                  Liam
                                  I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ian Green
                                  Anyone in the SCA who tells you that they are harmless... Shoot them first! :-P Generally speaking of course. (What was that about the pretty redheaded
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 5 7:19 PM
                                    Anyone in the SCA who tells you that they are harmless...

                                    Shoot them first! :-P

                                    Generally speaking of course.

                                    (What was that about the pretty redheaded royalty Liam?) :-)

                                    Ian the "probably going to pay for that," Green


                                    On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."
                                    >
                                    > Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)
                                    >
                                    > Liam
                                    > I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    Yours In Service,

                                    Lord Ian the Green

                                    http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                                    Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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