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RE: [SCA Newcomers] Favors

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  • Laurie Taylor
    I just noticed the absent subject line myself.sorry about that. I dislike missing subject lines too. Favors.that makes sense, and it gives me a jumping-off
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
      I just noticed the absent subject line myself.sorry about that. I dislike
      missing subject lines too.



      Favors.that makes sense, and it gives me a jumping-off point for research.
      Thank you.



      YIS



      Gelleia



      _____

      From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of chemistbb3
      Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:13 PM
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Favors





      Soounds like you are talking about a favor. They can have a number of
      purposes. Normally they are a sign that the person has gained the "favor" of
      the person who gave it to them. The design can be the arms or the badge of
      the giver, or just something that has some significance between the two. It
      can also signify the membership in a group or Household. Ansteorra has one
      that is given out by the Amazons to Ansteorran fighters who participate in
      their first Gulf Wars and then they add a star for each year they return to
      fight at Gulf War.

      Also, if you could please put something in your subject line in the future,
      that would be great. The reason I am ask for that is spammers sometimes do
      not put in a subject. My first thought when I do not see anything in the
      subjet line is to delete it as spam.

      William

      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
      , "Laurie Taylor" <lorann.taylor@...> wrote:
      >
      > Greetings,
      >
      >
      >
      > Though no longer a newcomer exactly, and in spite of being a Chatelaine, I
      > still have plenty of questions. Today I'm ready to learn and take my SCA
      > knowledge up a notch or two.
      >
      >
      >
      > Quite often, garb seems to be accompanied by a fabric piece that hangs off
      > of the belt of an outfit, usually in back. There is pretty much always a
      > design embroidered on the fabric piece. The piece usually measures roughly
      > (eye-balled) 4" wide and maybe 8-10" long.
      >
      >
      >
      > What is the significance of these fabric 'belt banners', for lack of a
      > better term. Are they only worn when one has achieved some particular
      > accomplishment? Are they ever worn strictly because the wearer wanted to
      > wear one? Are they subject to any of the SCA's very own sumptuary laws?
      >
      >
      >
      > Please, feel free to enlighten me! This has been bugging me for a while.
      >
      >
      >
      > YIS
      >
      >
      >
      > Gelleia
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Laurie Taylor
      Greetings once more, And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to mind a question that I ve had floating for quite some time. Since
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
        Greetings once more,

        And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
        mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.

        Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin with the
        modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
        book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
        proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
        recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's self
        by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not introduce
        my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.

        Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!

        But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all, does one
        use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
        book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?

        Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
        Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
        so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
        all the time!

        YIS

        Gelleia



        -----Original Message-----
        From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Ian Green
        Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors

        They are favors or tokens or badges.

        For my understanding of favors and tokens:

        https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
        tokens


        Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
        something else.

        Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.

        The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
        the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
        on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
        Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.

        Ian the Green

        On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:20 PM, <theanswerlady1@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Might also denote a role or office held by the wearer
        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: chemistbb3 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sender: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 20:12:31
        > To: <scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com>
        > Reply-To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
        >
        > Soounds like you are talking about a favor. They can have a number of
        > purposes. Normally they are a sign that the person has gained the "favor"
        > of the person who gave it to them. The design can be the arms or the badge
        > of the giver, or just something that has some significance between the
        two.
        > It can also signify the membership in a group or Household. Ansteorra has
        > one that is given out by the Amazons to Ansteorran fighters who
        participate
        > in their first Gulf Wars and then they add a star for each year they
        return
        > to fight at Gulf War.
        >
        > Also, if you could please put something in your subject line in the
        > future, that would be great. The reason I am ask for that is spammers
        > sometimes do not put in a subject. My first thought when I do not see
        > anything in the subjet line is to delete it as spam.
        >
        > William
        >
        > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Taylor" <lorann.taylor@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Greetings,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Though no longer a newcomer exactly, and in spite of being a Chatelaine,
        > I
        > > still have plenty of questions. Today I'm ready to learn and take my SCA
        > > knowledge up a notch or two.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Quite often, garb seems to be accompanied by a fabric piece that hangs
        > off
        > > of the belt of an outfit, usually in back. There is pretty much always a
        > > design embroidered on the fabric piece. The piece usually measures
        > roughly
        > > (eye-balled) 4" wide and maybe 8-10" long.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What is the significance of these fabric 'belt banners', for lack of a
        > > better term. Are they only worn when one has achieved some particular
        > > accomplishment? Are they ever worn strictly because the wearer wanted to
        > > wear one? Are they subject to any of the SCA's very own sumptuary laws?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Please, feel free to enlighten me! This has been bugging me for a while.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > YIS
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Gelleia
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Yours In Service,

        Lord Ian the Green

        http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

        Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Nikki
        THIS! And people don t understand why I get irritated as all get out when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say in return is Oh,
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
          THIS! And people don't understand why I get irritated as all get out
          when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say
          in return is "Oh, is Dr. listed as your first name on your birth
          certificate?"

          Éva

          On 4/4/2012 6:50 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
          >
          > Greetings once more,
          >
          > And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
          > mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.
          >
          > Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin
          > with the
          > modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
          > book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
          > proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
          > recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's
          > self
          > by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not
          > introduce
          > my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.
          >
          > Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!
          >
          > But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all,
          > does one
          > use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
          > book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?
          >
          > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
          > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
          > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
          > all the time!
          >
          > YIS
          >
          > Gelleia
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
          > [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>] On
          > Behalf Of Ian Green
          > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
          > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
          >
          > They are favors or tokens or badges.
          >
          > For my understanding of favors and tokens:
          >
          > https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
          > tokens
          >
          > Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
          > something else.
          >
          > Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.
          >
          > The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
          > the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
          > on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
          > Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.
          >
          > Ian the Green__
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Toscano
          I tend to introduce people to each other, and I do it with titles, because some people like to know. Personally, it depends on where we are. If we re sitting
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
            I tend to introduce people to each other, and I do it with titles, because
            some people like to know.

            Personally, it depends on where we are.

            If we're sitting in Calontir camp at Pennsic, driking Rhodri's beer, then I
            am gonna say, "Hi, I am Liam. Want a beer?"

            If you're lining up for Opening Ceremonies, I am helping to herald the
            line, then it's, Greeting, Master Liam St. Liam. How can I help?" (and do
            you want one of Rhodri's beers?)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Justinos Tekton called Justin
            ... This is a subjective situation, and for most people the answer depends on the formality of the situation. I am a companion of the Pelican, so my official
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
              On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 15:50 -0700, Laurie Taylor wrote:
              > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia
              > de
              > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to
              > do
              > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to
              > need
              > all the time!


              This is a subjective situation, and for most people the answer depends
              on the formality of the situation.

              I am a companion of the Pelican, so my official name and title are
              "Master Justinos Tekton called Justin", although I use the
              culture-specific title "Maistor" (as permitted by the SCA's heraldic
              rules -- you can pick a title that is equivalent status to the official
              one but specific to your persona's culture and period).

              That title is what I use in Court, because that is a formal situation,
              and I use it in my tagline on email. I use my title at public demos when
              we all stand up and self-introduce to the crowd, because our
              period-sounding titles add to the tone of the presentation. But I don't
              introduce myself by title in casual conversations at events. "Good day,
              M'Lady! I am Justin, at your service!" works just fine.

              In communicating by email, I (as many do) sign the message with the
              name/title by which I prefer to be addressed in that situation -- as
              you'll see below, usually that is simply "Justin." My title is in the
              footer for information, because some of my missives are official for an
              office I hold, and because it saves the other person the trouble of
              asking, if they should happen to want to know. (My heraldic blazon is
              also there, just for the fun of it!)

              My view of titles -- mine or anyone else's -- is that they exist to help
              make our conversations feel more period, especially in public speaking
              situations such as Court. I don't want my friends -- new or old -- to
              have to stumble over anything longer than "Justin" for normal
              conversation. In Court, however, if you are speaking publicly, you
              should probably use your full title at the beginning of your speech not
              out of pride, but out of duty -- when you are speaking, you are also a
              performer, helping to bring the pageantry of Court alive for others!

              It is, as I began, a subjective issue, though. If you have an Award of
              Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
              period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet you."
              If you wish to simply introduce yourself as "Gelleia", no one will
              respect you the less for that. Your words and deeds, not your title,
              bring respect.

              Finally, I'll add that a gender-specific title can be useful to the
              other person in email simply because some persona names are not
              obviously male or female. The other party may wish to address you by the
              courtesy title of "My Lady" or "My Lord", and if you have a
              gender-ambiguous name, it can be difficult for them to know which
              courtesy title, or which pronouns, to use when referring to or
              addressing you. This is particularly important in multi-party emails or
              posts on a public list. In this list, for example, it's not uncommon to
              quote someone else's discussion point, and say "I agree with her/him
              abut this ...." or "S/he makes a good argument here, but I respectfully
              disagree because...."

              This probably raises more questions than it answers, but perhaps it will
              be at least somewhat helpful.

              Kind regards,

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
              fesswise reversed sable.

              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            • Justinos Tekton called Justin
              ... Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work day here! Justin -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
                On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 19:28 -0400, Justinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                > If you have an Award of
                > Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
                > period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet
                > you."

                Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work
                day here!

                Justin

                --
                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                fesswise reversed sable.

                justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
              • Ian Green
                The article you are speaking of is Correct Title Usage for Addressing and Introducing.
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 4, 2012
                  The article you are speaking of is "Correct Title Usage for Addressing and
                  Introducing."

                  https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/correcttitleusageandadress


                  I am not the author of this article and reprinted it with permission from
                  Countess Dulcia MacPherson, OL, OR.

                  When writing to someone in a formal capacity in period there were many ways
                  to go about it. The most common that I am familiar with is something along
                  the lines of modern English's:

                  "Greetings and Salutations unto you from Lord Ian the Green..." It can get
                  more involved, "Greetings and Salutations unto Your Majesty Awesome Fighter
                  from Lord Ian the Green, (enter awards alphabet soup here.)

                  As for in person... you have received enough advice on that and need hear
                  none further from me.

                  Depending on what kingdom you are in there may be a protocol handbook to
                  help out. Protocol is not the same in every Kingdom throughout the SCA.

                  Ian

                  On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Justinos Tekton called Justin <
                  justin@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 19:28 -0400, Justinos Tekton called Justin wrote:
                  > > If you have an Award of
                  > > Arms and wish to be addressed as Lady, or if you simply like the
                  > > period-ish sound of "I am Lady Gelleia. It is a pleasure to meet
                  > > you."
                  >
                  > Argh! I apologize for this sentence fragment! It has been a long work
                  > day here!
                  >
                  >
                  > Justin
                  >
                  > --
                  > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  > Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                  > fesswise reversed sable.
                  >
                  > justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Yours In Service,

                  Lord Ian the Green

                  http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                  Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom Hickey
                  This aspect of this discussion may be off-topic, but since Nikki brought it up and I am a doctor, I feel obliged to reply. In the old days, a priest,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                    This aspect of this discussion may be off-topic, but since Nikki brought it up and I am a doctor, I feel obliged to reply.
                    In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                    At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and rsponsibility.
                    In the case of royalty, princes and future queens were raised from infancy by specialists to learn how to exercise leadership. 
                    As an Irishman, I am not defending the divine rights of kings, but still... no one could go up to King James and say, "Wassup, Jimmy?!"
                    In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned, and also preserves that very delicate balance between intimacy and professional distance that allows patients to confide secrets hat they can't tell anyone else, knowing that a doctor is expected to use the knowledge of that secret discretely and in the patient's best interests, according to the doctor's best knowledge, skill and insights. Medicine is supposed to be a calling rather than a racket, and as long as the doctor honors that role, patients should too.
                    Tom Hickey MD


                    ________________________________
                    From: Nikki <sidhemaiden@...>
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:09 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                     

                    THIS! And people don't understand why I get irritated as all get out
                    when a doctor introduces themselves as Dr. So-and-So. All I want to say
                    in return is "Oh, is Dr. listed as your first name on your birth
                    certificate?"

                    Éva

                    On 4/4/2012 6:50 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
                    >
                    > Greetings once more,
                    >
                    > And yes, I did read the article on Correct Title Usage, which brought to
                    > mind a question that I've had floating for quite some time.
                    >
                    > Since you referenced modern title usage in the article, I'll begin
                    > with the
                    > modern inspiration for this question. Many years ago, in an etiquette
                    > book, I read about proper ways to address people, always useful, and also
                    > proper ways to introduce one's self. My memory on this is fuzzy, but I
                    > recall that is was considered inappropriate for one to introduce one's
                    > self
                    > by a title, even as simple a title as Mr. or Mrs. So, I would not
                    > introduce
                    > my mundane self as Mrs. Laurie Taylor, but just as Laurie Taylor.
                    >
                    > Oh how I wish I could find that book and confirm my memory of this stuff!
                    >
                    > But on the SCA side of things, if one has any sort of title at all,
                    > does one
                    > use it when introducing one's self to another? Or is it like the mundane
                    > book o'manners, wherein one is told NOT to do that?
                    >
                    > Do I introduce myself as Gelleia de Horslaporte? Or as Lady Gelleia de
                    > Horslaporte? I can introduce other people, but seldom seem to need to do
                    > so. No clue on introducing myself, and that's the one that I seem to need
                    > all the time!
                    >
                    > YIS
                    >
                    > Gelleia
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                    > Behalf Of Ian Green
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:33 PM
                    > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Favors
                    >
                    > They are favors or tokens or badges.
                    >
                    > For my understanding of favors and tokens:
                    >
                    > https://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/home/for-sca-newcomers/favorsand
                    > tokens
                    >
                    > Badges can be used as a favor or token yes, but often they are for
                    > something else.
                    >
                    > Badges generally denote that you belong to a household or an office.
                    >
                    > The badge for the office of the Chatelain(e) (its french only females get
                    > the "e" on the end,) for example is the seneschal key dropped hanging down
                    > on a green background. that is the BADGE OF OFFICE for the Chatelain(e).
                    > Some people might put them on the belt fabric. I wore mine on a necklace.
                    >
                    > Ian the Green__
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • D'vorah bint Da'ud
                    ... More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn t always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency,
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                      On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:

                      > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                      > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and responsibility…[snip] In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned…

                      More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                      D'vorah bint Da'ud
                      Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                      dvorah@...
                      http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                      Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    • Bill Toscano
                      Actor: Is there a doctor in the house? Patron: I m a doctor! Actor: Hey Doc. Enjoying the show? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                        Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"

                        Patron: "I'm a doctor!"

                        Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tom Hickey
                        Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!) ________________________________ From: Bill Toscano To:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                          Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!)



                          ________________________________
                          From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:47 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                           

                          Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"

                          Patron: "I'm a doctor!"

                          Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Tom Hickey
                          Good point! ________________________________ From: D vorah bint Da ud To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 5,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                            Good point!



                            ________________________________
                            From: D'vorah bint Da'ud <dvorah@...>
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:21 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage


                            On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:

                            > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                            > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with this privelege and responsibility…[snip] In my case, after high school it was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor" acknowledges what I've earned…

                            More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean, but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                            D'vorah bint Da'ud
                            Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                            dvorah@...
                            http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                            Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bill Toscano
                            Thought you were fine, Tom. Valid points. Liam ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                              Thought you were fine, Tom.

                              Valid points.

                              Liam


                              On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hickey <thickeymd@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Good one (and I welcome bit of levity after my blow-up!)
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:47 PM
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Actor: "Is there a doctor in the house?"
                              >
                              > Patron: "I'm a doctor!"
                              >
                              > Actor: "Hey Doc. Enjoying the show?"
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ian Green
                              My wife has her Ph.D. and she too has earned the right to be called Doctor. In fact on formal invitations and introductions my wife s name goes first because
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                                My wife has her Ph.D. and she too has earned the right to be called Doctor.

                                In fact on formal invitations and introductions my wife's name goes first
                                because she has the higher title as she has most certainly earned it. It
                                is not Mr and Mrs the Green. It is Mrs Jane Doe and Mr the Green. If
                                truly formal it is Dr Jane Doe and Mr Ian the Green.

                                I'm pretty sure that not everyone goes around calling the MD doc or doctor.
                                If in a medical setting they sure do and they darn well better, that title
                                has been earned. Just like my wife doesn't get introduced as Dr Jane Doe
                                in every situation.

                                Friends hanging out at a restaurant having fun and someone stops by that
                                doesn't know everyone, you don't introduce the MD or the Ph.D. as Doctor
                                anything. It's, "Hey, this is my friend John Doe." At a conference my
                                wife gets introduced as "Dr. Jane Doe." In the Hospital the MD gets
                                introduced or introduces themself as Dr. John Doe.

                                I certainly wouldn't introduce my wife in a first aid situation as Doctor
                                as that would give people the wrong impression. In fact she's not even 1st
                                aid or CPR qualified at the moment.

                                As it was said earlier. Usage of title depends entirely on the social
                                construct and situation. I had the honor of serving Her Majesty of the
                                Midrealm by being one of the retainers on site. When my shift ended I
                                happened to know the person who was replacing me. I introduced my
                                replacement to Her Majesty:

                                "You're Majesty, it is my pleasure to have the honor to introduce you to
                                Lady Jane Doe who recently moved to this Kingdom from Far Far Away where
                                she was a protocol herald and was the Kingdom Chatelaine there for a term."

                                This worked well. Her Majesty was well introduced, knew some quick
                                information about the lady and what title she had.

                                I had introduced this same lady to friends at the event earlier as, "This
                                is Jane Doe. She's recently came here from Far Far Away where she was
                                pretty active. I met her at scribal practice night and like most scadians
                                likes a lot of activities."

                                For me, when I introduce myself in person, I generally just say, "Hi, I'm
                                Ian. Ian the (pointing to my garb,) Green." And that covers it pretty
                                well. They at least remember the color and that cues them to the name.

                                Yours in Service,

                                Ian

                                On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Tom Hickey <thickeymd@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > Good point!
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: D'vorah bint Da'ud <dvorah@...>
                                > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:21 PM
                                >
                                > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage
                                >
                                >
                                > On 5 Apr 2012, at 1:16 PM, Tom Hickey wrote:
                                >
                                > > In the old days, a priest, whether druid or Christian, had to spend some
                                > of the best years of their lives in study, deprivation and isolation while
                                > others their age were freer to work, party, etc.
                                > > At the end of their training these professionals earned the right to
                                > serve their community. Little more than the respect of a title came with
                                > this privelege and responsibility�[snip] In my case, after high school it
                                > was twelve more years of training, which included three years of working
                                > 110 hours a week, making life and death decisions in the middle of the
                                > night amidst sudden fear, chaos and blood. Calling me "Doc" or "Doctor"
                                > acknowledges what I've earned�
                                >
                                > More importantly, calling someone Doctor means (or, rather, SHOULD mean,
                                > but doesn't always because of PhD holders) that if there is a medical
                                > emergency, someone can run to that person for help. Calling someone Doctor
                                > means that others are reminded of that person as a resource, and if that
                                > doctor is the only one who knows that he/she is a doctor, then he/she will
                                > have to be the one to make that clear during introductions.
                                >
                                > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                > D'vorah bint Da'ud
                                > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                                > dvorah@...
                                > http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
                                > Twitter: @DvorahSCA
                                >
                                > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                Yours In Service,

                                Lord Ian the Green

                                http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                                Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Bill Toscano
                                I usually use, Hi, I m Liam. I m harmless. Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;) Liam I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;) [Non-text
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                                  I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."

                                  Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)

                                  Liam
                                  I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tom Hickey
                                  Why do people need reassuring? Do you look like Harry Potter s friend Hagred with his crossbow? :) ________________________________ From: Bill Toscano
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                                    Why do people need reassuring?
                                    Do you look like Harry Potter's friend Hagred with his crossbow? :)


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...>
                                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 3:01 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Another question then - re: Title Usage



                                     

                                    I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."

                                    Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)

                                    Liam
                                    I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Ian Green
                                    Anyone in the SCA who tells you that they are harmless... Shoot them first! :-P Generally speaking of course. (What was that about the pretty redheaded
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 5, 2012
                                      Anyone in the SCA who tells you that they are harmless...

                                      Shoot them first! :-P

                                      Generally speaking of course.

                                      (What was that about the pretty redheaded royalty Liam?) :-)

                                      Ian the "probably going to pay for that," Green


                                      On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Bill Toscano <liamstliam@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I usually use, "Hi, I'm Liam. I'm harmless."
                                      >
                                      > Works, unless I have friends around, who snicker. ;)
                                      >
                                      > Liam
                                      > I am a peer, and I am here to help you ;)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >



                                      --
                                      Yours In Service,

                                      Lord Ian the Green

                                      http://sites.google.com/site/ianthegreen01/

                                      Ian's Flickr account <http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianthegreen/>


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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