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Naming, Garb, Fighting and Marriage (those are natural together right?)

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  • Franchesca
    My husband and I are new to the SCA. He is interested in heavy weapons fighting and I went out to play with the rapiers the past two weeks. It was a lot of
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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      My husband and I are new to the SCA. He is interested in heavy weapons fighting and I went out to play with the rapiers the past two weeks. It was a lot of fun and far less bruising than what my husband is getting into.

      With that being said, I am having trouble with the picking a name. Or rather using a name. After careful research into probable lineages of my mother, I am going with a Basque persona, from the 1450-1490. I *think* like the clothes better. And Juana la Loca appeals to me. :P So after diligent research I found an appropriate name for that time, brings in my heritage (translated my maiden name for appropriateness as a Patronym) and my penchant for red hair. So with that I get Osana Jostunaz Borugorri. (Osana Tailor's Child Red Head) On paper this is wonderful and super terrific. My SCA roommate thinks sounds great and who wouldn't want to say Borugorri? But how do I get used to being called Osana? My name is Franchesca in real life and it's pretty impressive on it's own right. Or do I forget the direct relation to the basque heritage and take Francesca from Italian or Francisca (because I could do worse than be related to a spanish weapon) and keep the rest?

      I've read that garb isn't too much of a big deal. I just want to do it right because I don't have a lot of money and fabric is expensive. I know I have a lot to learn about sewing so that will take up some of my tries. But while I review documentation I can find online for this area and time, I've been told some of what I like might not actually be period since the paintings were done much later. And how do I know what to call what I see to find an appropriate pattern?

      Lastly, my husband is going for a 13th century Scottish Fisherman (Crisdean off Milton) who joins the Order of Templars. He has chosen to be a Sergeant because that truly fits his personality. I've made him most of his non fighting garb already, so he is almost set. But since he's 13th century and I'm 15th century, how does that work? Can we still be married in the "game" or do we just not even go there?

      Franchesca
    • Dave Roland
      ... Yes, but their armor allows more airflow and we fencers, as Knight put it to me once, fight in what seems to be a wet suit! ... You get used to it the same
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Franchesca" <franchesca.taylor@...> wrote:
        >
        > My husband and I are new to the SCA. He is interested in heavy weapons fighting and I went out to play with the rapiers the past two weeks. It was a lot of fun and far less bruising than what my husband is getting into.

        Yes, but their armor allows more airflow and we fencers, as Knight put it to me once, fight in what seems to be a wet suit!


        > With that being said, I am having trouble with the picking a name. Or rather using a name. After careful research into probable lineages of my mother, I am going with a Basque persona, from the 1450-1490. I *think* like the clothes better. And Juana la Loca appeals to me. :P So after diligent research I found an appropriate name for that time, brings in my heritage (translated my maiden name for appropriateness as a Patronym) and my penchant for red hair. So with that I get Osana Jostunaz Borugorri. (Osana Tailor's Child Red Head) On paper this is wonderful and super terrific. My SCA roommate thinks sounds great and who wouldn't want to say Borugorri? But how do I get used to being called Osana? My name is Franchesca in real life and it's pretty impressive on it's own right. Or do I forget the direct relation to the basque heritage and take Francesca from Italian or Francisca (because I could do worse than be related to a spanish weapon) and keep the rest?>

        You get used to it the same way you got used to the name you have now. By constant association with it. Everyone goes through that in some form or another. It helps if you try to key yourself to it in some way. Since you have a Scadian roommate you might want to ask them to go out of their way to call you the scadian name at home. That might help.

        >
        > I've read that garb isn't too much of a big deal. I just want to do it right because I don't have a lot of money and fabric is expensive. I know I have a lot to learn about sewing so that will take up some of my tries. But while I review documentation I can find online for this area and time, I've been told some of what I like might not actually be period since the paintings were done much later. And how do I know what to call what I see to find an appropriate pattern?>

        Do what you can afford. Sew it to your ability and look for advice on how to do it. You're new, so don't try to be perfect or wonderful or even great. Chances are, and I don't know your background so forgive me if I'm wrong, you don't have the skills yet to be wonderful.

        We all started somewhere just like in fencing and in heavy you have to get your foundation built right and then you can do great things. Give yourself permission to not be wonderful right now. Though of course strive to alway better yourself.


        > Lastly, my husband is going for a 13th century Scottish Fisherman (Crisdean off Milton) who joins the Order of Templars. He has chosen to be a Sergeant because that truly fits his personality. I've made him most of his non fighting garb already, so he is almost set. But since he's 13th century and I'm 15th century, how does that work? Can we still be married in the "game" or do we just not even go there?>

        I'm Scottish from roughly around 1250 AD. My Wife is German from roughly around 1400 AD. On September 12, 2009 we got married. The SCA is a hobby and no hobby of mine is going to interfere with my real life marriage. :-)

        Persona is supposed to be a vehicle used to explore the pre-17th century world, not a restrictive straight jacket used to keep you from enjoying your hobby and your marriage. It is my personal opinion that no-one should use their persona to stop themselves from doing anything that they want to do in the SCA including being married.

        If your persona is going to affect your marriage in the game then I must ask why your persona wouldn't affect your decision to fence. After all there wasn't fencing as SCA rapier does fencing in the time period of your persona. Then again, nothing even resembling fencing was around for my 1250 persona either. So what? Go. Have fun. Do. Use your persona as a reason to have fun and explore not to restrict you.

        Ian the Green


        >
        > Franchesca
        >
      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
        ... Do you live within the Middle Kingdom? If so, the title of Sergeant is used by a Kingdom-level fighting award. I don t know about other kingdoms. There are
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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          On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 14:18 +0000, Franchesca wrote:
          > He has chosen to be a Sergeant because that truly fits his
          > personality.


          Do you live within the Middle Kingdom? If so, the title of Sergeant is
          used by a Kingdom-level fighting award. I don't know about other
          kingdoms. There are likely to be other historical titles that are
          equivalent that could be used; check with your friendly neighborhood
          Herald, or perhaps someone on this list can help. If your kingdom
          doesn't use the title Sergeant in a specific way, it may not be a
          problem.

          I think the idea of a fisherman persona is very neat, by the way. You
          don't often hear of that background being chosen, in my experience, yet
          it is a very authentic occupation.

          Kind regards and welcome,

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
          fesswise reversed sable.

          justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
        • Susan Farmer
          ... If you really want to keep your name, do it. You are allowed to register one element from your name with the college of heralds. Having said that, you
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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            On 6/8/2011 10:18 AM, Franchesca wrote:
            > My husband and I are new to the SCA. He is interested in heavy weapons fighting and I went out to play with the rapiers the past two weeks. It was a lot of fun and far less bruising than what my husband is getting into.
            >
            > With that being said, I am having trouble with the picking a name. Or rather using a name. After careful research into probable lineages of my mother, I am going with a Basque persona, from the 1450-1490. I *think* like the clothes better. And Juana la Loca appeals to me. :P So after diligent research I found an appropriate name for that time, brings in my heritage (translated my maiden name for appropriateness as a Patronym) and my penchant for red hair. So with that I get Osana Jostunaz Borugorri. (Osana Tailor's Child Red Head) On paper this is wonderful and super terrific. My SCA roommate thinks sounds great and who wouldn't want to say Borugorri? But how do I get used to being called Osana? My name is Franchesca in real life and it's pretty impressive on it's own right. Or do I forget the direct relation to the basque heritage and take Francesca from Italian or Francisca (because I could do worse than be related to a spanish weapon) and keep the rest?

            If you really want to keep your name, do it. You are allowed to
            register one element from your name with the college of heralds. Having
            said that, you don't ever have to register your name unless you want to!

            > I've read that garb isn't too much of a big deal. I just want to do it right because I don't have a lot of money and fabric is expensive. I know I have a lot to learn about sewing so that will take up some of my tries. But while I review documentation I can find online for this area and time, I've been told some of what I like might not actually be period since the paintings were done much later. And how do I know what to call what I see to find an appropriate pattern?

            If you're interested in Spanish or Basque, this is one awesome resource
            for you

            http://jessamynscloset.com/

            Don't worry about period too much -- unless you want to. Jerusha (the
            name) is late-period lowland Scot. Jerusha also happens to live in
            Florence, Italy. And if you poke around her/my closet, you're going to
            find quite a big of Viking garb there.

            I know folks that never deviate from persona. I know people who have a
            name that they hang clothes on.

            Do this fun game of ours in a way that suits you. If you want to use
            Osana as a vehicle to learn more about period Basque civilization, then
            go forth and learn. In my head, (and sometimes in my journaling), I
            have names for the different Time-Periods that I want to learn about;
            but I keep the same name. One fellow in my kingdom is John. He uses
            the appropriate form of the name for the Time Period that he's dressed
            as today.

            > Lastly, my husband is going for a 13th century Scottish Fisherman (Crisdean off Milton) who joins the Order of Templars. He has chosen to be a Sergeant because that truly fits his personality. I've made him most of his non fighting garb already, so he is almost set. But since he's 13th century and I'm 15th century, how does that work? Can we still be married in the "game" or do we just not even go there?
            >

            Nowhere el;se but the SCA (or the cover of a romance novel) do you see
            Vikings and Elizabethan's married to each other!

            :-D

            Jerusha (in Meridies)

            --
            Susan Farmer
            sfarmer@...
            Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
            Division of Science and Math
            http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
          • Franchesca Bush
            ... Oh yes! That loaner armor makes me sweat like nothing else. I am hoping that I get to work on my cote tomorrow with lots of help. I have the linen, just
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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              >
              >
              > Yes, but their armor allows more airflow and we fencers, as Knight put it
              > to me once, fight in what seems to be a wet suit!
              >
              >
              Oh yes! That loaner armor makes me sweat like nothing else. I am hoping
              that I get to work on my cote tomorrow with lots of help. I have the linen,
              just need to know how to fit it to me. I need to breathe. With the hood,
              the jacket thing, the mask, and the clothes I feel a bit claustophobic.


              >
              > You get used to it the same way you got used to the name you have now. By
              > constant association with it. Everyone goes through that in some form or
              > another. It helps if you try to key yourself to it in some way. Since you
              > have a Scadian roommate you might want to ask them to go out of their way to
              > call you the scadian name at home. That might help.
              >
              >
              I will try that. I wonder how it will affect the kiddos. hmm...

              >
              >
              > Do what you can afford. Sew it to your ability and look for advice on how
              > to do it. You're new, so don't try to be perfect or wonderful or even great.
              > Chances are, and I don't know your background so forgive me if I'm wrong,
              > you don't have the skills yet to be wonderful.
              >
              > We all started somewhere just like in fencing and in heavy you have to get
              > your foundation built right and then you can do great things. Give yourself
              > permission to not be wonderful right now. Though of course strive to alway
              > better yourself.
              >
              >
              I'm not too bad; I've done a few costumes for the kids' school plays (Santa
              was very popular). I know I am not wonderful yet, but I am a bit detailed
              oriented. I don't know how many seams I picked out to get my husband's
              surcoat right. I also found an good source for very nice linen, for a very
              decent price locally. I just don't know the how to take the flat fabric and
              put it into the right shapes without some sort of pattern. I just don't
              know what to call what I see.

              >
              >
              I'm Scottish from roughly around 1250 AD. My Wife is German from roughly
              > around 1400 AD. On September 12, 2009 we got married. The SCA is a hobby and
              > no hobby of mine is going to interfere with my real life marriage. :-)
              >
              I just wondered if anyone would freaked out or not. Some people seem pretty
              cool about a lot of things, some seem a bit militant. But that might be
              some of my preceptions about the SCA and not reality.


              > If your persona is going to affect your marriage in the game then I must
              > ask why your persona wouldn't affect your decision to fence. After all there
              > wasn't fencing as SCA rapier does fencing in the time period of your
              > persona. Then again, nothing even resembling fencing was around for my 1250
              > persona either. So what? Go. Have fun. Do. Use your persona as a reason to
              > have fun and explore not to restrict you.
              >
              Oh this is true. I hadn't really though about that! Thanks Ian the Green!



              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Franchesca Bush
              ... Knights, and he very much wants to attain that title someday, he decided that his persona should not be that of a Knight. As with most monastic orders,
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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                >
                >
                > Do you live within the Middle Kingdom? If so, the title of Sergeant is
                > used by a Kingdom-level fighting award. I don't know about other
                > kingdoms. There are likely to be other historical titles that are
                > equivalent that could be used; check with your friendly neighborhood
                > Herald, or perhaps someone on this list can help. If your kingdom
                > doesn't use the title Sergeant in a specific way, it may not be a
                > problem.
                >
                > Oh I'm sorry I didn't clarify. Since most people associate Templars with
                Knights, and he very much wants to attain that title someday, he decided
                that his persona should not be that of a Knight. As with most monastic
                orders, Knights were typically of a noble class or granted based on ability
                and service. In the Order of Templars those of non-noble blood could be
                a Templar, but would not be a Knight. They could be various things, but a
                fighting brother would often be a Sergeant, rather than be a night. Instead
                of the well known white with red cross, Sergeants are granted black with a
                red cross. So, it's more of a persona aspect rather than a title, if
                someone should ask. He'll be Crisdean the Brother Sergeant, rather than the
                Templar Knight. In addition he is also allowed to "enlist" while married,
                so there isn't too much issue there.

                Oh and we are in Ansteorra and I am not aware of Sergeants here. I think
                there are Centurions? If I recall correctly.

                > I think the idea of a fisherman persona is very neat, by the way. You
                > don't often hear of that background being chosen, in my experience, yet
                > it is a very authentic occupation.
                >
                Yes, if only he actually liked to fish! But he is paying homage to his
                mother's heritage (Stewart) without being stuck to the famous Stewarts, and
                his father (named Milton!).


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Franchesca Bush
                ... Oh I didn t know that! I might just do that, because well, I have enough trouble remember names. I dont want it to be mine that I can t remember. ... If
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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                  >
                  > If you really want to keep your name, do it. You are allowed to
                  > register one element from your name with the college of heralds. Having
                  > said that, you don't ever have to register your name unless you want to!
                  >
                  >
                  Oh I didn't know that! I might just do that, because well, I have enough
                  trouble remember names. I dont want it to be mine that I can't remember.

                  >
                  >
                  If you're interested in Spanish or Basque, this is one awesome resource
                  > for you
                  >
                  > http://jessamynscloset.com/
                  >
                  > Don't worry about period too much -- unless you want to. Jerusha (the
                  > name) is late-period lowland Scot. Jerusha also happens to live in
                  > Florence, Italy. And if you poke around her/my closet, you're going to
                  > find quite a big of Viking garb there.
                  >
                  Oh I'm familar with that site. I guess that is why I have so much trouble
                  figuring it out. It's hard to pinpoint the dates correctly. I'll work on
                  it. I will go with I like first then try to get closer to period if I'm
                  off. At least I know that I will have clothes! Basque is a neat area for
                  me. And I know they have delicious food, so I'm very excited.

                  > Nowhere el;se but the SCA (or the cover of a romance novel) do you see
                  > Vikings and Elizabethan's married to each other!
                  >
                  I guess that does make for a good romance doesn't it! Thanks for the info!


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... Ah, I think I understand. I m not a Herald, but I would think that usage isn t a problem, particularly with the word Brother in front of it.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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                    On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 14:51 -0500, Franchesca Bush wrote:
                    > Oh I'm sorry I didn't clarify. Since most people associate Templars
                    > with
                    > Knights, and he very much wants to attain that title someday, he
                    > decided
                    > that his persona should not be that of a Knight. As with most
                    > monastic
                    > orders, Knights were typically of a noble class or granted based on
                    > ability
                    > and service. In the Order of Templars those of non-noble blood could
                    > be
                    > a Templar, but would not be a Knight. They could be various things,
                    > but a
                    > fighting brother would often be a Sergeant, rather than be a night.
                    > Instead
                    > of the well known white with red cross, Sergeants are granted black
                    > with a
                    > red cross. So, it's more of a persona aspect rather than a title, if
                    > someone should ask. He'll be Crisdean the Brother Sergeant, rather
                    > than the
                    > Templar Knight. In addition he is also allowed to "enlist" while
                    > married,
                    > so there isn't too much issue there.



                    Ah, I think I understand. I'm not a Herald, but I would think that usage
                    isn't a problem, particularly with the word "Brother" in front of it.
                    Particularly, introducing oneself as "M'Lord _____" and then later
                    explaining that one's persona is "that of a Brother Sergeant in the
                    Knights Templar" should be clear enough. If anyone asks, I would think
                    it would be sufficient to explain that he is not claiming the title of
                    Sergeant or of Knight within the SCA. And *aspiring* to Knighthood is
                    certainly not a problem -- hundreds and hundreds of squires and other
                    warriors aspire to be a Knight someday. :-)

                    Thanks for clarifying. Others may wish to comment, especially those who
                    live in Ansteorra, but it sounds to me as if he'd be in the clear even
                    in the Middle Kingdom where I live.

                    Again, welcome to the SCA. :-)

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                    fesswise reversed sable.

                    justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  • Dave Roland
                    //I just wondered if anyone would freaked out or not. Some people seem pretty cool about a lot of things, some seem a bit militant. But that might be some of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 8, 2011
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                      //I just wondered if anyone would freaked out or not. Some people seem pretty cool about a lot of things, some seem a bit militant. But that might be some of my preceptions about the SCA and not reality.//

                      Every group has those that take things to extremes. They are generally best ignored or warned about, but rarely ever to be followed.

                      Don't worry about them. Say something along the lines of, "Interesting," and then walk away.

                      Ian

                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Franchesca Bush <franchesca.taylor@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yes, but their armor allows more airflow and we fencers, as Knight put it
                      > > to me once, fight in what seems to be a wet suit!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > Oh yes! That loaner armor makes me sweat like nothing else. I am hoping
                      > that I get to work on my cote tomorrow with lots of help. I have the linen,
                      > just need to know how to fit it to me. I need to breathe. With the hood,
                      > the jacket thing, the mask, and the clothes I feel a bit claustophobic.
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > You get used to it the same way you got used to the name you have now. By
                      > > constant association with it. Everyone goes through that in some form or
                      > > another. It helps if you try to key yourself to it in some way. Since you
                      > > have a Scadian roommate you might want to ask them to go out of their way to
                      > > call you the scadian name at home. That might help.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > I will try that. I wonder how it will affect the kiddos. hmm...
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Do what you can afford. Sew it to your ability and look for advice on how
                      > > to do it. You're new, so don't try to be perfect or wonderful or even great.
                      > > Chances are, and I don't know your background so forgive me if I'm wrong,
                      > > you don't have the skills yet to be wonderful.
                      > >
                      > > We all started somewhere just like in fencing and in heavy you have to get
                      > > your foundation built right and then you can do great things. Give yourself
                      > > permission to not be wonderful right now. Though of course strive to alway
                      > > better yourself.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > I'm not too bad; I've done a few costumes for the kids' school plays (Santa
                      > was very popular). I know I am not wonderful yet, but I am a bit detailed
                      > oriented. I don't know how many seams I picked out to get my husband's
                      > surcoat right. I also found an good source for very nice linen, for a very
                      > decent price locally. I just don't know the how to take the flat fabric and
                      > put it into the right shapes without some sort of pattern. I just don't
                      > know what to call what I see.
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > I'm Scottish from roughly around 1250 AD. My Wife is German from roughly
                      > > around 1400 AD. On September 12, 2009 we got married. The SCA is a hobby and
                      > > no hobby of mine is going to interfere with my real life marriage. :-)
                      > >
                      > I just wondered if anyone would freaked out or not. Some people seem pretty
                      > cool about a lot of things, some seem a bit militant. But that might be
                      > some of my preceptions about the SCA and not reality.
                      >
                      >
                      > > If your persona is going to affect your marriage in the game then I must
                      > > ask why your persona wouldn't affect your decision to fence. After all there
                      > > wasn't fencing as SCA rapier does fencing in the time period of your
                      > > persona. Then again, nothing even resembling fencing was around for my 1250
                      > > persona either. So what? Go. Have fun. Do. Use your persona as a reason to
                      > > have fun and explore not to restrict you.
                      > >
                      > Oh this is true. I hadn't really though about that! Thanks Ian the Green!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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